77 réponses à ce sujet

[pudi0072000]

What are all the votes anyway?



I know there's Vaughn, Rexel's sister, that tortured guy's dad, and that man from Highever or thereabouts who lost his sons to the darkspawn. What are the other ones?

[Spazmodian]

My second playthrough I made the blight my first point, had 4-2 for, Anora was sided with me and I still lost.

Given that, I lost interest in attempting the politics.  The rest of my games are going to be the fastest way from point A to B and ignore the frivolous landsmeet.  Go in smash Loghains face in, then do it again.

[Celuwen]

There can be a brawl? How cool! I'm almost tempted to go for that option next time.

[Vicious]

You can kill Vaughn and win the Landsmeet no problem.

know there's Vaughn, Rexel's sister, that tortured guy's dad, and that man from Highever or thereabouts who lost his sons to the darkspawn. What are the other ones?

Right, Vaugn, Rexel's sister, and the father of the guy you find int Arl Howe's dungeon.



There is also the guy from the South who lost all of his land. You can get him by saying that the Darkspawn are the threat, not Orlais.



Also completing Master Ignacio's quest line results in another noble voting for you, saying you helped him in a 'personal matter' [revenge against the guy who kidnapped his son.]



There's a couple more, I forget how to get them though.



And of course you can get Vaughn and make the vote even more one sided.

[Yrkoon]

wait... you can lose the landsmeet?

[EmperorSahlertz]

I'm more interested in this "Grand Cleric Denounciation" since I don't recall ever seeing this.

[LdyShayna]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'm more interested in this "Grand Cleric Denounciation" since I don't recall ever seeing this.

Point out that he used an apostate to poison Eamon and have returned the ring to the sister of the templar you find in Howe's dungeon.  She supports your assertion that Howe and Loghain falsely imprisoned a templar in order to get their hands on Jowan, which really ticks off the Grand Cleric.

[kormesios]

Yrkoon wrote...

wait... you can lose the landsmeet?

I did my first play.  It's not hard if you don't suck-up to Anora, as you saw.

I also made bad arguments--I assumed I'd be able to present all my evidence, and I was "building up" to the bad stuff, when Anora walked in and accused me of kidnapping her. :happy:

[Darth_Trethon]

On my first playthrough I really didn't want to end the game but wanted to see the ending so I made a save and rushed the landsmeet to the purpose of seeing the ending and reloading my save to continue exploring and playing normally. I got stomped.....I think I lost by 5 to 2 or 6 to 1 or something really horrible like that. I stopped paying attention to the votes after the first 3 or 4 all went to loghain.....and I DID have anora on my side. Good times......all the other playthroughs I won by 5 to 2.

[Darth_Trethon]

Mary Kirby wrote...

The Grand Cleric's denunciation is worth 2

Grand Cleric? Who's the grand cleric? I don't remember him but then I don't know the names of most of the voting nobles.

[Ariella]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

The Grand Cleric's denunciation is worth 2

Grand Cleric? Who's the grand cleric? I don't remember him but then I don't know the names of most of the voting nobles.

First of all, it's a her, not a him, and she's kind of hard to miss in that she's wearing fancy Chantry robes. She's the old lady who will yell at Loghain for interfering with the templars on their sacred duty to deal with malificar and she'll also stop the brawl should you lose the vote and then take Loghain out, which leads to the duel.

[TemplarofSteel]

Spazmodian wrote...



My second playthrough I made the blight my first point, had 4-2 for, Anora was sided with me and I still lost.

Given that, I lost interest in attempting the politics.  The rest of my games are going to be the fastest way from point A to B and ignore the frivolous landsmeet.  Go in smash Loghains face in, then do it again.

Right on! screw the politics, win by force! lol

[Original182]

Mary Kirby wrote...
The named characters are not the ones that determine the outcome.

The short and simplified explanation: You need five "points" to win the Landsmeet
Anora's support is worth 3
The Grand Cleric's denunciation is worth 2
Each named noble who supports you is worth 1
Persuasive arguments are worth 1
Failed arguments cost you 1

Arl Bryland always supports you, he is not counted toward your support. He's counter-balanced by Bann Ceorlic, who always sides with Loghain. This was done for the sake of scripting the melee battle, since named characters fight on the side of whomever they support.

It is entirely possible to win the Landsmeet without Anora, if you have the support of the named nobles and pick the right arguments. It's entirely possible to win the Landsmeet with only Anora and no other named nobles. And it's possible to have Anora and some named nobles, and lose due to your argument choices.

Thank you for the reply. Do you mean you need to win 5 points more than Loghain, because Loghain can easily win 5 points as well.

Also, is it possible to tell the devs to give us something more intuitive in future? The points system above is not intuitive. A lot of people thought that getting more votes alone is the key to winning. I think future political contests should just be based on who has the most votes.

Edit: Also please tell the devs to balance the duel against the Landsmeet. Some people have wondered what is the point of the Landsmeet, if in the end the duel is the one that settles matters.

Modifié par Original182, 17 décembre 2009 - 04:40 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Ariella wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

The Grand Cleric's denunciation is worth 2

Grand Cleric? Who's the grand cleric? I don't remember him but then I don't know the names of most of the voting nobles.

First of all, it's a her, not a him, and she's kind of hard to miss in that she's wearing fancy Chantry robes. She's the old lady who will yell at Loghain for interfering with the templars on their sacred duty to deal with malificar and she'll also stop the brawl should you lose the vote and then take Loghain out, which leads to the duel.

She's hard to notice I'd say. I've only lost the landsmeet once and I haven't seen her in Denerim when gathering support for the landsmeet. I didn't even know she was ever there at all.....normally there's no chaotic fight and I am the one calling for an honorable one on one fight with Loghain. Where is she in Denerim prior to the Landsmeet to go talk to her and get her support?

[LazyWulfran1]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

The Grand Cleric's denunciation is worth 2

Grand Cleric? Who's the grand cleric? I don't remember him but then I don't know the names of most of the voting nobles.

First of all, it's a her, not a him, and she's kind of hard to miss in that she's wearing fancy Chantry robes. She's the old lady who will yell at Loghain for interfering with the templars on their sacred duty to deal with malificar and she'll also stop the brawl should you lose the vote and then take Loghain out, which leads to the duel.

She's hard to notice I'd say. I've only lost the landsmeet once and I haven't seen her in Denerim when gathering support for the landsmeet. I didn't even know she was ever there at all.....normally there's no chaotic fight and I am the one calling for an honorable one on one fight with Loghain. Where is she in Denerim prior to the Landsmeet to go talk to her and get her support?

You don't.  You find a templar in Howe's dungeon, and get his ring (There's a chantry board job associated with him).  Give the ring to his sister in the Gnawed Noble tavern.  Then bring up Arl Eamon's poisoning as one of your arguments during the Landsmeet.

Modifié par LazyWulfran1, 17 décembre 2009 - 05:38 .

[Darth_Trethon]

LazyWulfran1 wrote...

You don't.  You find a templar in Howe's dungeon, and get his ring (There's a chantry board job associated with him).  Give the ring to his sister in the Gnawed Noble tavern.  Then bring up Arl Eamon's poisoning as one of your arguments during the Landsmeet.

Yeah I do that side quest every single time but I usually go for other accusations such as abandoning Cailan, Howe's dungeon of torture and selling elfs....since those sound like greater wrongs than allegations of attempted murder on Eamon....still it sounds like that has a greater effect since it appears the Grand Cleric is more influential so I'll have to try it out.

Just as a curiosity is it possible to get a victory better than 5 to 2? Is say a 6 to 1 victory possible at all?

Modifié par Darth_Trethon, 17 décembre 2009 - 05:51 .

[Faerell Gustani]

Wrathra wrote...

I had 5-2 and I still lost. I think I read somewhere you need 6-1 to avoid the brawl.

No, I had all but 1 and I still had to fight.
I'm pretty sure the fight occurs regardless.

[Darth_Trethon]

Faerell Gustani wrote...

Wrathra wrote...

I had 5-2 and I still lost. I think I read somewhere you need 6-1 to avoid the brawl.

No, I had all but 1 and I still had to fight.
I'm pretty sure the fight occurs regardless.

You cannot avoid fighting Loghain even if you win the landsmeet and you win as long as you have more supporters than Loghain. If you fail to gather support then an all out fight breaks out where all the guards are involved as well BEFORE you are give the chance to go one on one with Loghain.

[kormesios]

Original182 wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...
The named characters are not the ones that determine the outcome.

The short and simplified explanation: You need five "points" to win the Landsmeet
Anora's support is worth 3
The Grand Cleric's denunciation is worth 2
Each named noble who supports you is worth 1
Persuasive arguments are worth 1
Failed arguments cost you 1

Arl Bryland always supports you, he is not counted toward your support. He's counter-balanced by Bann Ceorlic, who always sides with Loghain. This was done for the sake of scripting the melee battle, since named characters fight on the side of whomever they support.

It is entirely possible to win the Landsmeet without Anora, if you have the support of the named nobles and pick the right arguments. It's entirely possible to win the Landsmeet with only Anora and no other named nobles. And it's possible to have Anora and some named nobles, and lose due to your argument choices.

Thank you for the reply. Do you mean you need to win 5 points more than Loghain, because Loghain can easily win 5 points as well.

Also, is it possible to tell the devs to give us something more intuitive in future? The points system above is not intuitive. A lot of people thought that getting more votes alone is the key to winning. I think future political contests should just be based on who has the most votes.

Edit: Also please tell the devs to balance the duel against the Landsmeet. Some people have wondered what is the point of the Landsmeet, if in the end the duel is the one that settles matters.

I assume she meant five points, absolute.  So Anora and two nobles wins . . .

For me, I don't think the problem was the "points" system, so much as the way the final result was communicated.  When Anora accused me of kidnapping her, I thought "oh, crap!".  Then most named nobles supported me--3 to 2 or something--and I thought I'd won anyway.  Losing after all made sense, but I was a little
confused.  I figured, and still look at it this way, the proper interpretation was I'd lost the "vote", but because of the unnamed petty bannorn.  A crowd of petty nobles voting against me would've made it clearer, though.

As for the duel, do you really want to skip it?  If you lose the landsmeet, you have an extra battle (the toughest one I had in my first playthough).  So I didn't find the Landsmeet irrelevant myself.

The duel, by comparison, was easy.  And more satisfying than just getting Loghain executed, I guess.

[Original182]

kormesios wrote...
As for the duel, do you really want to skip it?  If you lose the landsmeet, you have an extra battle (the toughest one I had in my first playthough).  So I didn't find the Landsmeet irrelevant myself.

The duel, by comparison, was easy.  And more satisfying than just getting Loghain executed, I guess.

Actually if you lose the Landsmeet, and you have the all-out brawl, once you bring Loghain's health to 1 point, the Revered Mother will ask the fight to stop and ask you to duel anyway.

So whether you win the Landsmeet or not, in the end there will be a duel.

I don't mind the duel, just storywise if the duel is the one that decides who gets to rule, what's the point of having the Landsmeet in the first place? The Landsmeet has no say in determining who should be the next ruler.

There was a thread that asks a similar question, and I found that I had to grasp at straws to try to explain the Landsmeet and the duel. In the end I think it would be easier if I had just said the Landsmeet is a waste of time.

[druidofwarp]

Ok what is with people and their arguments, IIRC you can only choose one. I always chose the you retreated at ostagar line and thats all they let me say.

[Original182]

druidofwarp wrote...

Ok what is with people and their arguments, IIRC you can only choose one. I always chose the you retreated at ostagar line and thats all they let me say.

If your coercion skill and cunning are high, you get 2 new conversation options. One is "The Blight is the real concern", and ... I forgot the other one.

[druidofwarp]

but do i actually get to choose more than one? Or only choose one?

[Darth_Trethon]

I redid the landsmeet and chose to bring up Eamon's poisoning by Loghain's Blood Mage instead of bringing up selling elves and while it had no effect on the end result....still just a 5 to 2 victory....it certainly felt less convincing to me. Loghain simply denied the entire thing and then some chick said her brother tells a different story and the Grand Cleric jumped in to say interfering with Templar business won't be tolerated but I failed to notice the part where it was more than political unconvincing bickering. Bringing up the elves doesn't leave Loghain the option to deny anything and it was a clear and undoubted strike that I could easily see changing minds....it sounded much better to me than the other "yes you did"/"no I didn't" exchange.

[Cazlee]

So, it is possible to win the Landsmeet without Queen Anora or Vaughn's support (killed him off). I finally did so today and I must say that I was shocked at the argument combination that let me win, but then found myself nodding appreciatively. I guess I should have taken my own harsh advice that everyone IS out for themselves. 

It helps to know that Bryland is on your side regardless.

This means that, ironically, the argument perceived by many players as the strongest (for many good reasons), is probably the weakest, netting you a gain of 0 votes and confirming many of the players' gut instincts / initial suspicians that the nobles, in fact, do NOT give a damn about the elves. It makes sense, of course. I thought it was a nice and subtle indication / confirmation that despite my own lovey dovey experiences as a dwarf, racism exists quite strongly in Ferelden.

Given that Queen Anora was against me, picking the elf argument is what caused me to lose the landsmeet every time. In order to win by the largest factor, help the Crows out and choose the Blight->Howe->Poison arguments.

Modifié par Cazlee, 17 décembre 2009 - 12:12 .