Modifié par corporal doody, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:54 .
Casticus wrote...
Except that the Council is just made up of representatives. They are not the actual government of the races and therefore they don't have any authority over the military of all the races. If the other Councilors suddenly died under unknown circumstances, then military authority would just come from the actual leaders of those races. Or perhaps from the "vice" Councilors, who would still be supporting their races' interests. These interests do not include liberating Earth, so there is no way Udina could command this on his own. Their is nothing important about Citadel whereby after it is caught you can just command the Council races to do your will.Warlock Adam wrote...
How Udina's plotline works and is believable:
Udina has always been about advancing human interests--and his own political power--whenever the opportunity arises. He is ambitious, pragmatic, and possesses a certain cunning--yet he's also selfish and singleminded. Between the events of ME2 and ME3, Udina begins reaching out to pro-human terrorist organization Cerberus in some capacity or another. C-Sec Executor Pallin finds out, and Udina manipulates Bailey into eliminating him (see ME: Inquisition comics).
When the Reapers invade, Udina is violently thrown off of his laurels. Many of his fellow friends and coworkers died on Arcturus, leaving him the highest ranking Alliance politician alive (except for Hackett and Anderson). Torn between his desire to keep power as Councilor, his need to save the people of Earth, and his rage at the rest of the Council for refusing to help, Udina desperately turns to Cerberus for aid. They plan to--eventually--seize control of the Citadel and the Council, forcing the Council races and Citadel fleet to retake Earth and rescue humanity from the Reapers. Udina doesn't trust Cerberus but doesn't see any other options (building the Crucible is just another one of Shepard's foolish errands and will take too long to complete).
But the salarian Councilor is on his trail, thanks to Pallin's evidence, and Udina has to up the schedule of the plan. A large chunk of Cerberus forces hastily invades the Citadel, Kai Leng goes for the salarian Councilor, and Udina begins leading the rest of the Council (and his hand-chosen Spectre, Shepard's former squadmate) into Cerberus clutches. His plan fails, one way or another, and he dies with his dreams of retaking Earth crushed.
He may also have been indoctrinated--working closely with Cerberus--but this is just speculation.
Tl;dr: Udina's storyline isn't that unbelievable, it's just one of desperate measures and opportunistic power grabs.
syllogi wrote...
Chun Hei wrote...
syllogi wrote...
The only thing I found "unbelievable" about Vega was his odd spanglish. Bilingual people don't simply throw random words from their native language into conversation. It would have been cool to hear Freddie Prinze Jr. voice a few sentences in spanish (maybe with Cortez...), but his manner of speaking just took me out of the game and made me think of some writer somewhere who really, really needed to consult with actual spanish speakers before finishing Vega's dialogue.
Actually his speach is realistic. Not all Hispanics are bilingual. They know just enough Spanish to drop words into sentences to add emphasis kind of like how Snoop Dog drops in his bizarre variations on pig latin into his speech. I live with a Puerto Rican but Vega's speech is more like second and third generation kids of Mexican descent.
I'm the child of a Cuban immigrant, I married a guy who's the son of a Mexican and Puerto Rican, and my brother's wife's family is Colombian. I also grew up in New York City, with plenty of people who were either immigrants themselves or children of immigrants from Latin America.
Nobody I know talks like Vega. I think he would be laughed out of NYC by the hispanic population.
Casticus wrote...
Frankly, I can not believe how they treated Udina in this game. His sudden betrayal betrayed all sense of logic and reason. Udina's not the kind of politician who would turn to Cerberus just because the situation grew desperate. It doesn't make any sense. The Cerberus coup could not have accomplished anything besides turning the other races against humanity at best. This was a character assassination created only for the unthinking crowd who could think no further than "I hate Udina. Udina should die". He was a good character, and now, because of a 15 minute plot point he's a stupid character. A stupid, dead character.
Chun Hei wrote...
syllogi wrote...
Chun Hei wrote...
syllogi wrote...
The only thing I found "unbelievable" about Vega was his odd spanglish. Bilingual people don't simply throw random words from their native language into conversation. It would have been cool to hear Freddie Prinze Jr. voice a few sentences in spanish (maybe with Cortez...), but his manner of speaking just took me out of the game and made me think of some writer somewhere who really, really needed to consult with actual spanish speakers before finishing Vega's dialogue.
Actually his speach is realistic. Not all Hispanics are bilingual. They know just enough Spanish to drop words into sentences to add emphasis kind of like how Snoop Dog drops in his bizarre variations on pig latin into his speech. I live with a Puerto Rican but Vega's speech is more like second and third generation kids of Mexican descent.
I'm the child of a Cuban immigrant, I married a guy who's the son of a Mexican and Puerto Rican, and my brother's wife's family is Colombian. I also grew up in New York City, with plenty of people who were either immigrants themselves or children of immigrants from Latin America.
Nobody I know talks like Vega. I think he would be laughed out of NYC by the hispanic population.
I cannot argue with part I put in bold. Quite a few Mexican-Americans I know do. Particularly the ones who barely speak or understand any Spanish at all. I am not positive but that may include Freddie Prinze Jr. as well. It is my understanding that he is at least partially Hispanic.
I could go on saying that I grew up in Brooklyn and find your family picture amazing since it is my personal experience that not all Hispanics easily group themselves with different Hispanic populations and can at times have violent rivalries. But it would be arrogance on my part to assume that just because I never witnessed your family that it must therefore be impossible. I do not even claim to be the ultimate authority on who can be a "realistic" Korean American. All I ask is that there are no insulting Korean (Asian) stereotypes if Bioware ever makes such a character.
Regardless I do not want to be drawn into a debate what constitutes a "realistic Hispanic" Vega when one could more easily argue that he was not well developed as an Alliance marine.
Never bothered remembering his actual use name. They guy who started threads about killing all Krogan/ calling synthetics abominations/ bioware being facist.Casticus wrote...
Greylycantrope wrote...
Catalyst, Diana Allers, and Kai Leng I say. Btw nice pic OP, taking a note Catamalata?
Catamalata?
Oh. Never heard of him.Greylycantrope wrote...
Never bothered remembering his actual use name. They guy who started threads about killing all Krogan/ calling synthetics abominations/ bioware being facist.Casticus wrote...
Greylycantrope wrote...
Catalyst, Diana Allers, and Kai Leng I say. Btw nice pic OP, taking a note Catamalata?
Catamalata?
Chun Hei wrote...
I could go on saying that I grew up in Brooklyn and find your family picture amazing since it is my personal experience that not all Hispanics easily group themselves with different Hispanic populations and can at times have violent rivalries. But it would be arrogance on my part to assume that just because I never witnessed your family that it must therefore be impossible. I do not even claim to be the ultimate authority on who can be a "realistic" Korean American. All I ask is that there are no insulting Korean (Asian) stereotypes if Bioware ever makes such a character.
Regardless I do not want to be drawn into a debate what constitutes a "realistic Hispanic" Vega when one could more easily argue that he was not well developed as an Alliance marine.
I'm sorry you don't find it believable that different Latino groups are able to get along, and do things like get married to each other or be friends. My best friends, whom I've been good friends with since high school, are French Guyanese, Dominican, and Vietnamese. I can't even imagine growing up in NYC and *not* having a very diverse group of friends. There's really nothing else to say to you than that, because I'm kind of offended by what you're inferring.
Modifié par Warlock Adam, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:22 .
Warlock Adam wrote...
People didn't dislike Vega because of his ethnicity or "racial believability." If they did, they're being ridiculous. Nobody can be an unrealistic Hispanic unless their character obviously isn't Hispanic. And Vega's backstory was that he was.
People disliked Vega because he was muscular, the new guy (seemingly a newbie idiot), another "boring human," and took up a slot from familiar ME2 characters. It wasn't hard to believe this guy was real.
Modifié par syllogi, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:27 .
syllogi wrote...
Warlock Adam wrote...
People didn't dislike Vega because of his ethnicity or "racial believability." If they did, they're being ridiculous. Nobody can be an unrealistic Hispanic unless their character obviously isn't Hispanic. And Vega's backstory was that he was.
People disliked Vega because he was muscular, the new guy (seemingly a newbie idiot), another "boring human," and took up a slot from familiar ME2 characters. It wasn't hard to believe this guy was real.
Yeah, that wasn't my complaint, it was the way he inserted random spanish words into conversation, my mom would call what he's doing "baby talk." It's odd sounding, and unbelievable to me.
I understand that the game is set far enough into the future so that the subject of how people talk is pretty moot, but since most other characters talk in a way that we relate to as people from this century, I find his speech pattern odd.
I personally disliked his interaction with FemShep, but that's another story. I actually quite like most of the "boring humans" in this game.
Warlock Adam wrote...
) and Jacob (:sick:+)
Modifié par corporal doody, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:36 .
Warlock Adam wrote...
Least believable character was Diana Allers. I'm sorry, no disrespect to Jessica Chobot, but Allers should have been kneecapped. Emily Wong (or ANY other new character) would have added much much more to the story.
Guest_Cthulhu42_*
Even though his name is in your sig?Casticus wrote...
Oh. Never heard of him.
No Shepard without Vakarian.Siansonea II wrote...
Garrus. He's apparently needed by the turian government to be their resident expert on the Reapers, and he chucks that to tag along with Shepard AGAIN? Srsly? It's not like the old days when he was a disaffected C-Sec officer, or a failed vigilante on a lawless backwater space station. No, now Garrus Vakarian is The Guy Who Was Right All Along, and he's got the ear of the Primarch himself. And he's playing cowboy with Shepard? Don't the turians need him elsewhere?
Modifié par Cthulhu42, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:41 .
Modifié par Bill Casey, 12 juillet 2012 - 07:01 .
grey_wind wrote...
It would have been really cool if they explored the idea that sometimes having a "sleazy" politician like Udina on your side could have its benefits. Seeing Udina actually use his political skills to aid the galactic war effort would have been awesome, even if some of his actions were not agreeable. I think it would have allowed players to develop a begruding respect for him at the very least.
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