292 réponses à ce sujet

[Xemnas07]

Arcian wrote...

Xemnas07 wrote...

But IT is dead. BW was obviously not the geniuses we gave them credit for, and they couldnt pull of the biggest, most intelligent and awe inspiring mind warp in gaming history.

You know, there is a writer and an executive producer who used these very words to describe the ending of their common magnum opus. You want to know their names?

Mac Walters and Casey Hudson.

obviously they were wrong, as they ripped off another games ending, it's unoriginal and doesnt fit in the ME univers, negates EVERYTHING from ME1 and is riddled with plot holes. theyre wrong, period.

[Paultheoctopus]

It doesnt matter if they intended it before EC, it actually worked better than the "real story"

[Xemnas07]

IS TULLY A DEV OR MODERATOR? lol serious question

[Xemnas07]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

warlock22 wrote...

TullyAckland wrote...

The interpretation of a story is a personal thing, and it’s one of the most enjoyable aspects of an experience like this for many players. To tell you what we think would be to take away the validity of each player’s take on it.

And ultimately, our opinion on what is “really” happening is no more accurate than what a player believes when playing it. The interpretation of the story is a player choice, and like other choices in the game we don’t like to trample on it by definitively stating what is “canon”.

... so then if it is so enjoyable, then why is most of the fan base still upset? Most of us wanted canon endings, that what we were lead to believe that we were going to get. They way I see it from what I've read and seen, you were either to lazy and/or pressed for time to give us true endings. Hell you got moved the writer who wrote ME1 and ME2 to SWTOR, thats probobly why this happend, you didn't follow up on what he had planned from the begining and so we got this...

"Most of the fans" are not upset. Stop saying that.

youre wrong, MOST of them are still upset. How could they not be? the current ending, even with EC, negates everything from me1, just look at the sovereign threads; if the citadel was an AI, was sentient, then wtf was sovy needed for? and his speech completely does NOT translate into "we are trying to save you all" but rather into "you are nothng, we are gods, we will kill you all for reason you cant omprehend." Even the Reaper on rannoch in ME3 said we couldnt comprehend it, are you kidding me? how could we NOT comprehend a RIPPED OFF unoriginal ending (ripped from Deus Ex) even if it was first intro'd in ME3 by BW, its a straight forwards, dtupid idea that had NOTHING to do with established themese throughout the game, and STILL creates all the plot holes and inconsistencies. THEY MESSED UP!! if they would ADMIT that, then theyd regain some respect.

[loungeshep]

So I click on this thread, as I do many threads here. I'm not exactly sure why I clicked on this thread hoping it would be something new, but no, no it is not a new thread. It is the same thread where some arm chair geek acts like he knows how to make games better than a multi million dollar gaming company.

So, cool story bro.

[Xemnas07]

Tony0618 wrote...

While Indoctrination Theory is/was an awesome idea, it isn't happening.

I think that ME3 is still one of the best games I've ever played, even with the terrible ending, and while not perfect, the EC answers alot of questions for me. My only gripe is why they couldn't just have done this from the start instead of releasing the game apparently unfinished? If the EC was the ending and not a fix to an apparent rush job, I think there wouldn't be such an outrage or at least as much of an outrage (from myself aswell).

totally agreed, ME3 Pre-ending is THE BEST game ive ever played, without a doubt, and thr trilogy is untouchable. but you reach that ending, even with EC, and it's STILL riddled with plot holes. they dropped the ball. this game could have outsold ANY game, INCLUDING skyrim (no im not advocating that skyrim is perfect, im using it as a reference for a successful game/a game to compete with) that came before it, and blew EVERONE's mind, but they failed, simple. That being said, i want to be able to LOVE the PERFECTION that is ME3 PRE-ENDING! to do that, we just need to accpet that this terrible, plot hole riddled, incosistent, ME1 omissing (sp?) end is what we're stuck with, and just enjoy everything that was PERFECT pre-ending.

[elitehunter34]

daaaav wrote...

There were alot of replies to Tully's post but none of them contained hate...

Never said people hated on Tully in the thread, I was talking about elsewhere on the forums.  Most of it is directed towards Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, though. 

daaaav wrote... 
They should get rid of their PR department and allow the writers and dev's to talk to us directly. I can't help but feel that in this industry, PR is an unneccessary barrier between consumer and developer that corrupts the flow of opinions.

Yeah, I'm somewhat inclined to degree.  I just wish we could talk to the devs more, but I imagine they're worried about one small slip up that could lead to a PR disaster, so they don't want to do it more.  I don't think they should, though, the League of Legends devs are very active on their forums and it's really great to actually see their opinions and for them to  answer our questions directly.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 13 juillet 2012 - 04:06 .

[Xemnas07]

loungeshep wrote...

So I click on this thread, as I do many threads here. I'm not exactly sure why I clicked on this thread hoping it would be something new, but no, no it is not a new thread. It is the same thread where some arm chair geek acts like he knows how to make games better than a multi million dollar gaming company.

So, cool story bro.

i never once claimed i knew how to make bette games, all im saying is they failed, Theyre a multimillionaire company becasue THEY were GREAT story writers and game makers, and we the fans loved and respected them. Then, with all the talent in the world behind them, they screw up a game by ripping off Deus Ex and throwing in an ending that had NOTHING to do with the previous games, is riddled with inconsistencies and plot holes. and negates EVERYTHING from me1. i LOVE this game, but they dropped the ball and cant even admit it.

"kinda sad that 90% of the people who love the ending think that it didnt happen, that's a bad ending."

kinda said when the game is only $30 4 months later while skyrim is $60 STILL and games that are 2 YEARS old are $30.

so cool story bro, changed my life

Modifié par Xemnas07, 13 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[Xemnas07]

daaaav wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Does anyone else wish that Bioware folks would stick around for a conversation?

Yes.

Good.

They just seem to lob a PR hand grenade into a random thread and then dissappear snickering into the night...

^^ LMAO!!! ouldnt have said it better myself.

[Ithurael]

It is hard to imagine that ALL of this: IT, Ending Hate, Retake Movement happened because Hudson and Walters decided to go it alone and write the ending themselves.

Seriously, can we ask this at comic con? Why did they do this and not have the ending peer reviewed? How do you justify this? Twist endings are so g-damn LAME that they really don't have a place anymore.Everyone seems to be doing them and they are so ridiculous. Even going it alone is nothing short of baffling, humans evolve through cooperation (not segregation) by interacting and gaining feedback from each other we (or ideas, philosophy, rational) is able to mature and evolve based on those interactions.

The sheer fact that Hudson and Walters just "went commando" (used explicitly for a reason) on the ending and foolishly believed that their ending would suffice and impress everyone is nothing shy of Hubris. Feedback is necessary for growth and evolution - not leaping into some green beam that disseminates your DNA and converts the galaxy to cyborgs (or something) and neither is writing an ending to a massive 5 + year long trilogy and not peer reviewing the ending with the writers who wrote the other 95% of the story that made up the trilogy cause, you know, they may have had an influence in building this universe.

[Ithurael]

Xemnas07 wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Does anyone else wish that Bioware folks would stick around for a conversation?

Yes.

Good.

They just seem to lob a PR hand grenade into a random thread and then dissappear snickering into the night...

^^ LMAO!!! ouldnt have said it better myself.

+1

I think it is to fuel the Speculation Machine that Walters and Hudson built that sends them to the Magical land of Unicorns and Rainbows....

[Zuka999]

TullyAckland wrote...

The interpretation of a story is a personal thing, and it’s one of the most enjoyable aspects of an experience like this for many players. To tell you what we think would be to take away the validity of each player’s take on it.

And ultimately, our opinion on what is “really” happening is no more accurate than what a player believes when playing it. The interpretation of the story is a player choice, and like other choices in the game we don’t like to trample on it by definitively stating what is “canon”.

What an awful cop out.

[Xemnas07]

TullyAckland wrote...

The interpretation of a story is a personal thing, and it’s one of the most enjoyable aspects of an experience like this for many players. To tell you what we think would be to take away the validity of each player’s take on it.

And ultimately, our opinion on what is “really” happening is no more accurate than what a player believes when playing it. The interpretation of the story is a player choice, and like other choices in the game we don’t like to trample on it by definitively stating what is “canon”.

Tully, i REALLY do appreciate you coming in and giving your opinion, i really do. And to a point, i agree with you. That ability to have the gamer interpret your story is amazing. But the interpretation stops at a certain point. For example, for me, i LOVED this game because i love what you guys did; unstoppable evil force destorys all life for reasons unknown (which i loved, very original imo) and one guy, just a commander, humble and all, has to save EVERYONE int he galaxy, and he FEELS that burden, and i interpreted the dream sequences as the burden weighing on shepard, and i loved it. HOWEVER, the ending we were given, while many have different opinions on what it means, MOST agree that it ir Unoriginal (ripped from Deus Ex) DOES NOT fit into the ME universe, NEGATES everything from ME1 (wtf was the purpose of sovy if the catalyst could activate the citadel at any time, and Sovvy's speech spells doom because the all powerful reapers demand it, for reasons we cant comprehend, not doom because theyre trying to save organics, which is pretty easy to grasp) and is riddled with other plot holes and inconsistencies. How is this good or different interpretation? its just bad and lazy writing.

[Xemnas07]

Ithurael wrote...

It is hard to imagine that ALL of this: IT, Ending Hate, Retake Movement happened because Hudson and Walters decided to go it alone and write the ending themselves.

Seriously, can we ask this at comic con? Why did they do this and not have the ending peer reviewed? How do you justify this? Twist endings are so g-damn LAME that they really don't have a place anymore.Everyone seems to be doing them and they are so ridiculous. Even going it alone is nothing short of baffling, humans evolve through cooperation (not segregation) by interacting and gaining feedback from each other we (or ideas, philosophy, rational) is able to mature and evolve based on those interactions.

The sheer fact that Hudson and Walters just "went commando" (used explicitly for a reason) on the ending and foolishly believed that their ending would suffice and impress everyone is nothing shy of Hubris. Feedback is necessary for growth and evolution - not leaping into some green beam that disseminates your DNA and converts the galaxy to cyborgs (or something) and neither is writing an ending to a massive 5 + year long trilogy and not peer reviewing the ending with the writers who wrote the other 95% of the story that made up the trilogy cause, you know, they may have had an influence in building this universe.

+1

[loungeshep]

Xemnas07 wrote...

loungeshep wrote...

So I click on this thread, as I do many threads here. I'm not exactly sure why I clicked on this thread hoping it would be something new, but no, no it is not a new thread. It is the same thread where some arm chair geek acts like he knows how to make games better than a multi million dollar gaming company.

So, cool story bro.

i never once claimed i knew how to make bette games, all im saying is they failed, Theyre a multimillionaire company becasue THEY were GREAT story writers and game makers, and we the fans loved and respected them. Then, with all the talent in the world behind them, they screw up a game by ripping off Deus Ex and throwing in an ending that had NOTHING to do with the previous games, is riddled with inconsistencies and plot holes. and negates EVERYTHING from me1. i LOVE this game, but they dropped the ball and cant even admit it.

"kinda sad that 90% of the people who love the ending think that it didnt happen, that's a bad ending."

kinda said when the game is only $30 4 months later while skyrim is $60 STILL and games that are 2 YEARS old are $30.

so cool story bro, changed my life

Yeah see, I disagree.

[Xemnas07]

loungeshep wrote...

Xemnas07 wrote...

loungeshep wrote...

So I click on this thread, as I do many threads here. I'm not exactly sure why I clicked on this thread hoping it would be something new, but no, no it is not a new thread. It is the same thread where some arm chair geek acts like he knows how to make games better than a multi million dollar gaming company.

So, cool story bro.

i never once claimed i knew how to make bette games, all im saying is they failed, Theyre a multimillionaire company becasue THEY were GREAT story writers and game makers, and we the fans loved and respected them. Then, with all the talent in the world behind them, they screw up a game by ripping off Deus Ex and throwing in an ending that had NOTHING to do with the previous games, is riddled with inconsistencies and plot holes. and negates EVERYTHING from me1. i LOVE this game, but they dropped the ball and cant even admit it.

"kinda sad that 90% of the people who love the ending think that it didnt happen, that's a bad ending."

kinda said when the game is only $30 4 months later while skyrim is $60 STILL and games that are 2 YEARS old are $30.

so cool story bro, changed my life

Yeah see, I disagree.

i respect your opinion, and to each his own

[daaaav]

elitehunter34 wrote...

daaaav wrote...

There were alot of replies to Tully's post but none of them contained hate...

Never said people hated on Tully in the thread, I was talking about elsewhere on the forums.  Most of it is directed towards Mac Walters and Casey Hudson, though. 

daaaav wrote... 
They should get rid of their PR department and allow the writers and dev's to talk to us directly. I can't help but feel that in this industry, PR is an unneccessary barrier between consumer and developer that corrupts the flow of opinions.

Yeah, I'm somewhat inclined to degree.  I just wish we could talk to the devs more, but I imagine they're worried about one small slip up that could lead to a PR disaster, so they don't want to do it more.  I don't think they should, though, the League of Legends devs are very active on their forums and it's really great to actually see their opinions and for them to  answer our questions directly.

Ha! PR folks are responsible for MOST of the slip ups because they don't know what the writers and Devs are actually thinking!

A good example is from the West Wing. Allan Aldas Presidential Candidate character had to do a tough press meeting, so what did he do? He stood up there and answered every damn question in full to the best of his ability! It took hours but everyone was satisfied because there was no smoke and mirrors.

[PHub88]

Im just trying to figure out how while my Shepard is laying in London rubble taking a breath. Somehow my crew has already made a plaque with my name on it to put on the memorial wall.

[Jadebaby]

JamieCOTC wrote...

TullyAckland wrote...

The interpretation of a story is a personal thing, and it’s one of the most enjoyable aspects of an experience like this for many players. To tell you what we think would be to take away the validity of each player’s take on it.

And ultimately, our opinion on what is “really” happening is no more accurate than what a player believes when playing it. The interpretation of the story is a player choice, and like other choices in the game we don’t like to trample on it by definitively stating what is “canon”.

Good. Now my Shepard can come back from Synthesis.

You chose synthesis?

[Jadebaby]

Ithurael wrote...

Xemnas07 wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Galbrant wrote...

daaaav wrote...

Does anyone else wish that Bioware folks would stick around for a conversation?

Yes.

Good.

They just seem to lob a PR hand grenade into a random thread and then dissappear snickering into the night...

^^ LMAO!!! ouldnt have said it better myself.

+1

I think it is to fuel the Speculation Machine that Walters and Hudson built that sends them to the Magical land of Unicorns and Rainbows....

More like it sends them to a fiendish hell filled with fire & brimstones.. Because, you know, they seem to be all about inflicting evil choices upon people.

[katness]

I really had wished that the IT theory was true. It gave me faith that Bioware was still ingenious. But, I think it is dead now with EC. EC just showed that they gave up on the ending and on the fans. Or they just thought that we seriously wouldn't mind the ending and think it was brilliant since we were mindless Bioware zombies. Apparently, we mean nothing to them and all that they can see now are dollar bills....which I think is going to be disappearing soon...

Actually, I should clarify that not all of Bioware is bad, just mainly the EA bit and Hudson and Walters.

To me, this is personally a very sad time for gaming. I started noticing that games were losing a great story aspect in place of flashy graphics, better combat ability, multiplayer aspects, and anything that is the new trend. Also, this whole new developer trend with no bosses is really getting on my nerves. Apparently, the thought is that having an end boss takes away from the reality of the gaming experience or whatever. But, to me, I think that humans need closure with an end boss. Something to fight against and feel a relief with the end reward. Now, I have to be very selective in which games I choose as I don't want to spend my hard earned money on an unsatisfying experience.

Oh well, I've learned a lot from this experience with the ending of Mass Effect 3. I will never buy a game based on the ratings of official reviewers, and instead see what fans and players rate it. I will also, think very hard on whether or not to buy another Bioware product. Really is a shame. ;_;

[SimKoning]

I always thought IT is what happens when you combine wishful thinking, lack of critical thinking skills and cognitive dissonance...

[daaaav]

SimKoning wrote...

I always thought IT is what happens when you combine wishful thinking, lack of critical thinking skills and cognitive dissonance...

Wishful thinking perhaps.. but why add the other two...

My only problem with it would be that they shipped an unfinished game...

[SimKoning]

@ daaaav

I'm sorry if it's a bit insulting. My point is that the pattern of thinking behind the IT thing reminded me of conspiracy theories, ad hoc arguements and fallacies purported to be "evidence" for things such as UFO and paranormal claims.

Modifié par SimKoning, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:16 .

[chemiclord]

Herr Igor wrote...

If you can't see it for yourself then perhaps BIOWARE really have a point after all...

Hmmm... nope, still don't see where Tully calls us morons.

You very well might be though... which would explain why you came to that conclusion.

Modifié par chemiclord, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:17 .