23 réponses à ce sujet

[strikerdark]

The book The Calling ends up with King Cailan having a son with an elven Gray Warden.... it is heavily implied that this son is Alistair...... however the game states that Alistair is the son of a human maid in Arl Eamon's state........ which is right?

is the arl eamon maid story created as cover up to hide the truth?

[bobsmyuncle]

No, David Gaider was just goofing off at work one day writing DA fanfic when his boss caught him and decided to publish it so there would at least be some business value to come from it.



(The real answer is that the book probably is canon but whether the child is actually Alistair is meant to be possible but ambiguous)

[Herr Uhl]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

No, David Gaider was just goofing off at work one day writing DA fanfic when his boss caught him and decided to publish it so there would at least be some business value to come from it.

TheAngryOne approves +60

It is canon.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Perhaps Maric has more than one bastard, and the other will resurface in a sequel?

[LdyShayna]

bobsmyuncle wrote...
(The real answer is that the book probably is canon but whether the child is actually Alistair is meant to be possible but ambiguous)

This.

[Ulicus]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Perhaps Maric has more than one bastard, and the other will resurface in a sequel?

Dragon Age II: Inglourious Royale Basterds.

"Each and every Warden under my command owes me 100 Darkspawn scalps. And I want my scalps."

[tanglefoot79]

Ulicus wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Perhaps Maric has more than one bastard, and the other will resurface in a sequel?

Dragon Age II: Inglourious Royale Basterds.

"Each and every Warden under my command owes me 100 Darkspawn scalps. And I want my scalps."

Where can I pre-order this?

[JasonPogo]

Well an I see it Alistair can not be Fiona's child. It is stated in the game that Eamon took in Alistair to avoid embarrassing Rowan the Queen. They made it sound like Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born. Fiona never showed up till Rowan was dead for a few years. I think whoever is the son of Meric and Fiona would be a few years younger than Alistair.

[bobsmyuncle]

JasonPogo wrote...

Well an I see it Alistair can not be Fiona's child. It is stated in the game that Eamon took in Alistair to avoid embarrassing Rowan the Queen. They made it sound like Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born. Fiona never showed up till Rowan was dead for a few years. I think whoever is the son of Meric and Fiona would be a few years younger than Alistair.

Because lying about the circumstances of a royal bastard's birth is unheard of. Write down everything you're told in game about Alistair's birth and read it critically. Who tells you? How do they know? Do they have the motivation to tell you the truth?

It's possible everything Alistair believes about his mother is completely true. It's also possible he was lied to because that's what Fiona asked for.

[Stengahpolis]

Ulicus wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Perhaps Maric has more than one bastard, and the other will resurface in a sequel?

Dragon Age II: Inglourious Royale Basterds.

"Each and every Warden under my command owes me 100 Darkspawn scalps. And I want my scalps."

When it comes to killin' darkspawn, you're just an amateur. We're here to see if you want to go pro.

[Kosh_Naranek]

Stengahpolis wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Perhaps Maric has more than one bastard, and the other will resurface in a sequel?

Dragon Age II: Inglourious Royale Basterds.

"Each and every Warden under my command owes me 100 Darkspawn scalps. And I want my scalps."

When it comes to killin' darkspawn, you're just an amateur. We're here to see if you want to go pro.

"You are harboring Grey Wardens, aren't you?"

". . . . .Yes."

"They are under the floorboards, aren't they?"

[JasonPogo]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

JasonPogo wrote...

Well an I see it Alistair can not be Fiona's child. It is stated in the game that Eamon took in Alistair to avoid embarrassing Rowan the Queen. They made it sound like Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born. Fiona never showed up till Rowan was dead for a few years. I think whoever is the son of Meric and Fiona would be a few years younger than Alistair.

Because lying about the circumstances of a royal bastard's birth is unheard of. Write down everything you're told in game about Alistair's birth and read it critically. Who tells you? How do they know? Do they have the motivation to tell you the truth?

It's possible everything Alistair believes about his mother is completely true. It's also possible he was lied to because that's what Fiona asked for.

Well if they are doing what Fiona wanted he would NOT know that Meric was his father.   Duncan would most likely not have made him a Gray Warden.  And even the Codex's support the idea that Alistair is indeed just the son of some woman, who has an actual sister.  It might just be me but the Codexs should be cannon...

[pc6311]

JasonPogo wrote...

Well an I see it Alistair can not be Fiona's child. It is stated in the game that Eamon took in Alistair to avoid embarrassing Rowan the Queen. They made it sound like Rowan was still alive when Alistair was born. Fiona never showed up till Rowan was dead for a few years. I think whoever is the son of Meric and Fiona would be a few years younger than Alistair.

Or it could simple be a continuity error by the writers...

It's my understanding that David wrote both prequel books & game Alistair and Eamon/ Loghain were written by someone else.  Maybe he/she didn't read David's books???? :happy:

Modifié par pc6311, 17 décembre 2009 - 01:49 .

[Ulicus]

bobsmyuncle wrote...
Because lying about the circumstances of a royal bastard's birth is unheard of. Write down everything you're told in game about Alistair's birth and read it critically. Who tells you? How do they know? Do they have the motivation to tell you the truth?

It's possible everything Alistair believes about his mother is completely true. It's also possible he was lied to because that's what Fiona asked for.

It's not the lying that's important, it's the timing.  If Alistair believes the story that he was hidden from Rowan, he must also believe himself to be two-three years older than he actually is (unless historians have fudged her year of death, I suppose). It might just be a retcon, sure, but as everything currently stands it's pretty tricky for Alistair to be Fiona's kid.

Though it definitely felt like it was Alistair when I was reading... but was it all just a big bait and switch? I'm looking forward to finding out, either way.

Stengahpolis wrote...
When it comes to killin' darkspawn, you're just an amateur. We're here to see if you want to go pro.

I'm jealous I didn't do that one first.

Modifié par Ulicus, 17 décembre 2009 - 01:53 .

[Sumix101]

We've been told that not everything in the codex is exactly true, if you read it some enties they contradict each other.

[JasonPogo]

Ok yet still ignoring the Codex it is just as Ulicus said. The timeing is off. If it is true that They were hiding him from Rowan he can not in any way shape or form be Fiona's kid.

[bobsmyuncle]

Ulicus wrote...

bobsmyuncle wrote...
Because lying about the circumstances of a royal bastard's birth is unheard of. Write down everything you're told in game about Alistair's birth and read it critically. Who tells you? How do they know? Do they have the motivation to tell you the truth?

It's possible everything Alistair believes about his mother is completely true. It's also possible he was lied to because that's what Fiona asked for.

It's not the lying that's important, it's the timing.  If Alistair believes the story that he was hidden from Rowan, he must also believe himself to be two-three years older than he actually is (unless historians have fudged her year of death, I suppose). It might just be a retcon, sure, but as everything currently stands it's pretty tricky for Alistair to be Fiona's kid.

Though it definitely felt like it was Alistair when I was reading... but was it all just a big bait and switch? I'm looking forward to finding out, either way.

I've thought of that, but I think Loghain is the one who tells you that Alistair was hidden to spare Rowan's feelings and reputation. It's been a while since I've gone over all the info re: Alistair's birth (I did it after reading the Calling, because I'm a hopeless nerd <_<) but I don't recall Eamon mentioning Rowan. I think Alistair believes he was hidden in order to keep the succession less complicated for Cailan, or at least he says so in his confession dialogue. Still, Rowan died only a couple years before the events of The Calling, so it's possible that Alistair believes himself to be older than he actually is. I personally peg him at about 21 years old, so it's possible he might think he's slightly older. It doesn't make the Fiona theory impossible or even implausible, it just makes Alistair's self-perception slightly skewed (and let's face it, he's incredibly trusting. If he was told by Eamon that he was 10 when he was really 8, it's more likely he'd believe that he's a late bloomer than believe Eamon was either lying or lied to). And what Fiona wanted for her son was that a) he not know his mother was an elf and that he not be entangled in the royal succession. From what I can tell, if Alistair is that son, Maric succeeded on point a and did his best on point b. Alistair tells you it has been made clear that he is illegitimate and in no way in line for the throne for as long as he can remember. If it hadn't been for Loghain's antics at Ostagar it would have stayed that way, just as Fiona wished.

My point is that our sources of information about Alistair's parentage are Alistair (via Eamon), Eamon (though I don't recall anymore exactly what he says other than that Alistair is Theirin and therefore must inherit), and Loghain, and I can make good arguments for why each one might have faulty information. I'm not saying that Fiona's son HAS to be Alistair, just that it's possible. Just because Loghain says so, or Eamon believes it, or it's written in the Codex doesn't make it scientific fact. There's room for doubt in both theories of Alistair's parentage and it's not going to be settled until David Gaider decides to come clean in another novel or in a sequel to DAO. I just keep ending up arguing for a possible connection between Fiona and Alistair because it seems everyone completely believes the codex tells the truth delivered straight from God to their screens. The fact is that the codex tells you what Alistair and other characters believe to be the truth about his birth, and they could be wrong (I'll admit they could also be right and there's a third Theirin child out there, but I doubt it).

Modifié par bobsmyuncle, 17 décembre 2009 - 02:42 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Book SPOILERS!!!!!















At the end of the book Fiona tells Maric to "tell him nothing" and let the child think he had a human mother. So Alistair THINKS some maiden was his mother but do keep in mind that he likely doesn't know the truth. I wonder who of all the NPCs actually know this.....I would think Loghain probably knows but that is the most likely explanation.

[LdyShayna]

JasonPogo wrote...
 If it is true that

If it's true.  Exactly.

In addition to all of the fine points above, I would say that the idea of Maric cheating on Rowan while she was alive seems awfully unlikely to me.  If Maric and Katriel had somehow had a son, that would be something else (and he would have been a lot older, of course).  But after the marriage?  It just doesn't fit.

And as above, this doesn't mean that Alistair is DEFINITELY Fiona's son. I just think it's just as likely either way, and both ways introduce continuity issues, IMO.

[JasonPogo]

Didn't Duncan take the child at the end of the book. How would he have had access to Eamon? Again since Fiona didn't want the child burdend by his birth it would have been a dumb idea for Duncan to drop the kid of at his uncles. And to say it is unlikely for Maric to cheat? Him and Rowan where friends at best b the time they were married. Yes they loved each other to an extent but I would think that despite her best efforts Meric would know she was very cold on the inside just doing what she must for Feraldan. The thought that he might have spent time with a star stuck maid that was into him for being him is not hard to fathom. Meric was always kinda needy and never wanted to be king. Escaping into the arms of a woman that was into him would make scense,

Yes this is all speculation but it just seems to me that they have made it lean more to him not being Meric and Fiona's son. Hell for all we know the next game will have us trying to put Fiona's son on the throne when Alistair has to go on his Calling. As well as kill Morrigans deamon baby heh.

Modifié par JasonPogo, 17 décembre 2009 - 03:14 .

[LdyShayna]

JasonPogo wrote...

Didn't Duncan take the child at the end of the book. How would he have had access to Eamon?

 
Because he had access to Maric.

Again since Fiona didn't want the child burdend by his birth it would have been a dumb idea for Duncan to drop the kid of at his uncles.

Alistair was told constantly throughout his life that he would never sit on the throne, and his heritage was kept secret, generally speaking.   Eamon would be someone he could trust, in theory.

And to say it is unlikely for Maric to cheat? Him and Rowan where friends at best b the time they were married. Yes they loved each other to an extent but I would think that despite her best efforts Meric would know she was very cold on the inside just doing what she must for Feraldan. The thought that he might have spent time with a star stuck maid that was into him for being him is not hard to fathom. Meric was always kinda needy and never wanted to be king. Escaping into the arms of a woman that was into him would make scense,

I disagree.  Maric was way too honorable to cheat on his wife once he was married, IMO.  Considering how devoted to her the end of The Stolen Throne and his grief was, I don't think they were as estranged as you suggest.    I would find this bit very, very hard to swallow as in character unless he had some major character changes in the intervening years.

 Hell for all we know the next game will have us trying to put Fiona's son on the throne when Alistair has to go on his Calling. As well as kill Morrigans deamon baby heh.

I sure hope not. 

[Maconbar]

I am guessing that Maric had at least 4 children: Cailan, Maric, child with Fiona, and Morrigan. It is possible that child with Fiona and Maric are the same, although I doubt it based on timing of events in The Calling.

[dusthawk]

Kosh_Naranek wrote...

Stengahpolis wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

Perhaps Maric has more than one bastard, and the other will resurface in a sequel?

Dragon Age II: Inglourious Royale Basterds.

"Each and every Warden under my command owes me 100 Darkspawn scalps. And I want my scalps."

When it comes to killin' darkspawn, you're just an amateur. We're here to see if you want to go pro.

"You are harboring Grey Wardens, aren't you?"

". . . . .Yes."

"They are under the floorboards, aren't they?"

And there it is... my grand idea for some DLC!
Now just to learn how to use the toolset 

[Ulicus]

bobsmyuncle wrote...
I've thought of that, but I think Loghain is the one who tells you that Alistair was hidden to spare Rowan's feelings and reputation. It's been a while since I've gone over all the info re: Alistair's birth (I did it after reading the Calling, because I'm a hopeless nerd <_<) but I don't recall Eamon mentioning Rowan.

It's just Loghain and the codex, if I recall correctly - but I might not.

You should be a hopeful nerd, btw. Much more fun.

bobsmyuncle wrote...
Still, Rowan died only a couple years before the events of The Calling, so it's possible that Alistair believes himself to be older than he actually is. I personally peg him at about 21 years old, so it's possible he might think he's slightly older.

The Calling takes place in 9:12/13 Dragon, since Maric/Loghain's journey through the Deep Roads is said to have occured fourteen years previously. Depending on when in the year things go down, Fiona's son should only be 16/17 by the time the game takes place -- assuming the 9:30 date given in the codex is correct. Maybe it's actually a few years later? (At the moment I'm assuming that the "20 years ago" date for the Wardens' return is  rounding up... but maybe it's actually 9:32/33 Dragon and the codex entry is out of date?)

Ha, funnily enough, the codex entry that mentions that "It is 9:30 Dragon, the thirtieth year of the Dragon Age" is listed as having been written in 9:25 Dragon.