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Why The Catalyst Was Right* Despite Geth, EDI, etc...


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#51
o Ventus

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maaaze wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I can easily see this thread becoming a war between catalyst supporters and anti catalyst supporters O-o


StarJar Binks has supporters?


i am closing in determining your actual age. :whistle:


I have an idea of his actual age and he's shown far more competence in both language and critical thinking than most people on this forum.


as evident in his comment...and they call me delusional......but i have to stop this pointless bickering...it is not productive...i should just ignore these idiotic statements...and move on...see ya.


Gee, I wonder why?

I also hope you know that semicolons, commas, and periods all perform similar functions to an ellipsis, and are grammatically correct. Use them.

#52
Baronesa

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BrotherWarth wrote...

I can prove that the Catalyst can't be trusted using simple logic. It talks of absolute, unavoidable outcomes to events it cannot predict. And as we all know, only Sith deal in absolutes. Therefor the Catalyst is a Sith and cannot be trusted.


Only a Sith deals in absolutes -  Darth Kenobi.


I love the irony of that phrase

#53
GreyLycanTrope

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Baronesa wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

I can easily see this thread becoming a war between catalyst supporters and anti catalyst supporters O-o


StarJar Binks has supporters?



Those who don't require oxygen to live, of course

I just got over the stupidity of that arguement, let's not bring it up again please. :sick:

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 12 juillet 2012 - 11:27 .


#54
LiarasShield

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If only the catalyst was harbinger or their was no catalyst and that harbinger was lord of the reapers and led them from the very begining things would've been much better then this star child

"that speaks in aggrivating logic with terms that are useless" Lagato From Trigun

#55
Taboo

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My...thought...processes...are...beyond...your...comprehension...you...pitiful...peons.

Behold...my...inconsistent...consistencies.

#56
Guest_BrotherWarth_*

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Baronesa wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

I can prove that the Catalyst can't be trusted using simple logic. It talks of absolute, unavoidable outcomes to events it cannot predict. And as we all know, only Sith deal in absolutes. Therefor the Catalyst is a Sith and cannot be trusted.


Only a Sith deals in absolutes -  Darth Kenobi.


I love the irony of that phrase


I know, right? Such awful writing.

#57
GreyLycanTrope

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Taboo-XX wrote...

My...thought...processes...are...beyond...your...comprehension...you...pitiful...peons.

Behold...my...inconsistent...consistencies.

But do these consistencies come with color coded options?

#58
Taboo

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Greylycantrope wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

My...thought...processes...are...beyond...your...comprehension...you...pitiful...peons.

Behold...my...inconsistent...consistencies.

But do these consistencies come with color coded options?


It...is...not...something...you...can...comprehend.

Peons...fumbling...in..ignorance.

#59
LiarasShield

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ahh I love music videos espically this one lol



#60
Darth Death

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Honestly the answer is quite simple, so simple most people even overlook it. I really wish people here would stop perplexing ME's story for the sake of debate.

The answer is no, the Catalyst's solution is wrong. The very fact Shep being able to converse with the star-child & the aid of the Crucible, presenting three new solutions that only shep can choose from as a result, proves it. Even the star-child admits its initial solution will no longer work, ultimately giving Shep absolute authority over the fate of the Reapers & itself.

#61
GreyLycanTrope

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Taboo-XX wrote...
It...is...not...something...you...can...comprehend.

Peons...fumbling...in..ignorance.

:lol:

#62
Fusiontron

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BrotherWarth wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

I can prove that the Catalyst can't be trusted using simple logic. It talks of absolute, unavoidable outcomes to events it cannot predict. And as we all know, only Sith deal in absolutes. Therefor the Catalyst is a Sith and cannot be trusted.


Only a Sith deals in absolutes -  Darth Kenobi.


I love the irony of that phrase


I know, right? Such awful writing.


Good and evil is but a point of view.

#63
XqctaX

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Taboo-XX wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

OP...you will have alot of explaining to do with these people...
they are quite stubborn ... and stuck in their way of thinking...don´t expect to make any progress...

good luck...and i agree fully...


He won't make any progress because he's arguing a point that is objectively wrong and illogical.




Then he will have to find a new...solution.

Without variables.

Bahahahaha.

new ending? :P

#64
oneyedjohn

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to the OP, how would you feel about comparing the zero sum idea of MAD between the USSR and USA, and the the prisoner's dilemma to the logic of the Catalyst? both statitics to state that nucler war would be eneibley just to prevnet the other form "winning".

but the 1983 OKO false reading and Korean Air Lines Flight 007 showed that both sides where willing to make compromise and reject to survive.

We see the logic behind the Catalyst, but the fact that it is so heartless that we hate.

#65
AlexMBrennan

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Who is "we"? There are more than a few threads here that many people do not see the logic (also cf "yo dog"meme)

#66
KingZayd

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He has this awesome paper, and yet doesn't show it to us. He presents no evidence for his claims.

As an academic, you must be familiar with the term "peer review"?

Destroy!

Modifié par KingZayd, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:04 .


#67
AxeloftheKey

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I will make this claim now:
This topic is best topic.

#68
Mazebook

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Greylycantrope wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
It...is...not...something...you...can...comprehend.

Peons...fumbling...in..ignorance.

:lol:


Look what i made... I call it "ode to BS...N"

look at them play...aren´t they cute...?

trying to comprehend...what everybody with a basic IQ can understand...

they are so rude...that makes me sad...

like piggies in the mud...their ignorance is rather irritating.

Modifié par maaaze, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:18 .


#69
Taboo

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maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
It...is...not...something...you...can...comprehend.

Peons...fumbling...in..ignorance.

:lol:


look at them play...aren´t they cute...?

trying to comprehend...what everybody with a basic IQ can understand...

they are so rude...that makes me sad...

like piggies in the mud...their ignorance is rather irritating.


Pigs roll in the mud because they do not have protection from the sun. They do so to prevent themselves from getting sun burned. Pigs are very intelligent by the way.

Also...what?

#70
Mazebook

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Taboo-XX wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
It...is...not...something...you...can...comprehend.

Peons...fumbling...in..ignorance.

:lol:


look at them play...aren´t they cute...?

trying to comprehend...what everybody with a basic IQ can understand...

they are so rude...that makes me sad...

like piggies in the mud...their ignorance is rather irritating.


Pigs roll in the mud because they do not have protection from the sun. They do so to prevent themselves from getting sun burned. Pigs are very intelligent by the way.

Also...what?


well if you want to take that as a compliment...B)...have it your way.:)

#71
The Twilight God

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bgroberts wrote...

Arguing anything from Shepard's point-of-view against the Catalyst is committing the type of academic sin that should get you an “R” from any self-respecting professor or instructor. The Catalyst has been at this for 20,000+ cycles for at or above 1 billions years. His sample size and sources are so enormously vast beyond any cycle's experience that Shepard's indication of the Geth or EDI are of no consequence. You are holding up an exception to the aggregate, and also an exception with no guarantees of continuity.



The Catalyst's solution is based on an assertion. Obviously all organic life has not been wiped out therefore his assertion that synthetics will wipe out all organic life is not based on fact. It's based on what he thinks might occur. Not necessarily what will occur. Not by any reasonable standard of evidence. He was created by organics in a galaxy where organics obviously existed and had the means to prevent extinction. Oddly enough it is the Catalyst itself that wiped out its creators. Ironic perhaps?

Many find the reaper's motivations ironic.

Given what we know, I don't see the Catalyst allowing organic or synthetic civilizations to develop to a point where AI's could wipe out organics. The reapers certainly didn't do this in the prothean cycle or the current one. In every cycle the Catalyst's toys performed the destroying. So his mountain of evidence may be a dirt pile he saw 37 million years ago. A dirt pile next to the hole it dug itself.

It strikes me as self contradicting. Organic species creates AI to figure out how to stop conflict between synthetics and organics. AI does not solve conflict, but in fact starts it and perpetuates it. Mind boggling.

It's not even the argument for conflict between synthetic and organic that is the problem. The problem is his "solution". Why is genocide the best solution? Why can't the reapers just police the galaxy under a somewhat iron fist like the Control ending? He could run a intergalactic zoo. But, no, he chooses to do what he is supposed to prevent. Image IPB

The conditions to form life are limited. At some point the galaxy is going to run out of planets that can produce life. His solution can only lead the the extinction of all organic life in the galaxy.

Sorry, but the Catalyst is all kinds of flawed. The Catlayst would work better as a disfunction organic-AI blending experiement gone wrong. Not something working as intended.

If I was the writer I'd take a metaphysical approach to reapers. Everything Soveriegn said in ME1 made the reapers to actual be something beyond the physical object in front of me. Something from a high plane of existence interacting with the physical world via the machine forms. This seemed more likely to me when it was revealed that they used organic parts in construction (i.e. a "gateway to the soul"?) Heck, maybe they didn't want the competition if other races evolved to a point where the supernatural became the natural. Maybe religion and worship feeds them like the Ori in Stargate and they need to keep their cattle from becoming equals. This could be a reason that could be explained.. yet never truly explained. Oh, well. I'm not the lead writter so whatever.

#72
oneyedjohn

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It is a simple logic. "the created will always rebel against the creator". this axon is the catalyst Primary Idea, the statement from witch all of his decisions are based. In the west, we are all familiar with stories of Adam and Eve, Satan and God, even the American, French, Bolshevik revolution and the American Civil War can be used to support the statement.

Each one of us has some kind of Primary Idea or Ideas with its own hierarchy of ideas from which we use to base our thoughts and actions on. the reason why catalyst is seen as "illogical" is because most of us has some other Primary Idea that is incompatible or over rides the catalyst primary idea.

Ex: an artist and an scientist look at a sunset and marvel at the colors. the artist Primary Idea compares the colors to paints and how the colors interact with each other. the scientist looks at the light and sees in the minds eye how the equations and science behind the bending of light though gases of the atmospher. If they are not careful, when they try to express there observation to each other as either "cold" or "silly".

#73
GreyLycanTrope

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maaaze wrote...
Look what i made... I call it "ode to BS...N"

look at them play...aren´t they cute...?

trying to comprehend...what everybody with a basic IQ can understand...

they are so rude...that makes me sad...

like piggies in the mud...their ignorance is rather irritating.

We've made logical arguments, ones you ignored in favor of trying to belittle us, don't cry just because your ellipses fail to impress us.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:27 .


#74
Taboo

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maaaze wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
It...is...not...something...you...can...comprehend.

Peons...fumbling...in..ignorance.

:lol:


look at them play...aren´t they cute...?

trying to comprehend...what everybody with a basic IQ can understand...

they are so rude...that makes me sad...

like piggies in the mud...their ignorance is rather irritating.


Pigs roll in the mud because they do not have protection from the sun. They do so to prevent themselves from getting sun burned. Pigs are very intelligent by the way.

Also...what?


well if you want to take that as a compliment...B)...have it your way.:)


I've had more enlightening conversations with farm animals so yeah, I would rather talk with a pig than someone who believes that oxygen is not necessary for survival.

#75
ld1449

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Ok. Heres my question to you.

The Catalyst and the reapers by proxy were probably the first synthetics to achieve true sentience.

We can determine this by the simple fact that someone BUILT them. That someone most likely being organic.

Meaning that before the Catalyst and the reapers there were no synthetics that "wiped out organics" because the catalyst needed to be built, and if they wiped out all organics then nobody would have built him because no synthetic race would have a reason to build him.

Now the Catalyst rebels and reapers are created and he harvests the first race, by HIS definition of the term, PRESERVING them, not KILLING them

and seeing as how he shows up every 50k years to wipe out all space faring species in the galaxy there has been no synthetic army that has come close to achieving, or having the chance to achieve his estimated outcome.

So...there was no synthetics that done it before he was around, otherwise he wouldn't have been built...there were no synthetics that done it AFTER he was around because he didn't let it happen.

So how exactly could something that has never happened before or after be considered "innevitable."

???????