556 réponses à ce sujet

[Mazebook]

Baronesa wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Name one case...one case...where the created did not rebel against their creators.

just one.

No no... select the entire premise, lil maaaze

Quote mining the part you want to confirm forgetting the other part that draw the whole thing to the mud is dishonest, but that does not surprise me.

What happened with "Synthetic life will destroy ALL organic life"

Try to not quotemine as much and be a lil bit more honest on the discussion, because right now it almost seems like you are taking your debating points directly from the Discovery Institute

So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

Modifié par maaaze, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:49 .

[elitehunter34]

maaaze wrote...

Name one case...one case...where the created did not rebel against their creators.

just one.

Sorry, you are making a claim:  all created will rebel against their creators.  You have to prove that claim to us.  You don't get to shift the burden of proof on to us.  We're not making any claims.

[ediskrad327]

the danger of Synthetics killing all organics is the same danger with Organics killing all organics, dictators and Maniacs will always exist

[Ainyan42]

maaaze wrote...

Name one case...one case...where the created did not rebel against their creators.

just one.

The Geth.

Wait, what?

Oh yeah - the creators rebelled against them. The Geth were perfectly happy to serve the Quarians, even as they were achieving a form of self-knowledge, but the Quarians panicked and started attacking them. The Geth DEFENDED themselves - to the point that they didn't even follow the Quarians once the Quarians had left Rannoch, and we are provided with several examples of Geth defending friendly Quarians even at the height of the Geth/Quarian war. The only time that the Geth actively attacked without being provoked was when they were under the control of Sovereign and the Reapers.

Even in 3, when the Geth turned back to the Reapers, it's only because they were DRIVEN to find some way to survive against the QUARIAN INCURSION.

That doesn't look like created destroying creators to me - that looks like created defending themselves against the depredations of their creators.

The only thing that the so-called Geth Rebellions in 1 and 3 proves is that the Catalyst/Reapers will manufacture evidence to support a spurious claim that has no actual evidence to back it up by tricking the created into attacking their creators through use of indoctrination and hollow promises.

[Baronesa]

maaaze wrote...

So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

1.- Self defense can be or cannot be considered rebellion, depending on your opinion.

2.- Second premise has no basis whatsoever. Case in point: Rannoch. What do we see there? Plants? Birds? oh wait! those are organic beings! and the Geth have not killed them!


The assumption that synthetics will destroy all organic life is without any basis on reality and THE ONLY ones who do that, are actually the Reapers. They don't destroy all life at once, but once they level  a planet not only they take out the advanced civilizations but also destroy every other sign of life on the planet. so the Catalyst is the problem he tries to solve, NOT all synthetics.

[Mazebook]

elitehunter34 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Name one case...one case...where the created did not rebel against their creators.

just one.

Sorry, you are making a claim:  all created will rebel against their creators.  You have to prove that claim to us.  You don't get to shift the burden of proof on to us.  We're not making any claims.

No no no no...YOU want to prove the catalyst wrong...

i am done playing games with you guys ...

if you want to prove the catalyst wrong...

make your points or else confess that you have no Evidence thats proves the Catalyst wrong.

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...
So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

Surpassing organics doesn't mean organics get wiped out. These new AI could seek to help organics, or more likely they could just ignore us.
Humans have surpassed ants, yet we have not taken it upon ourselves to try and destory all ants simply because they're literally beneath us.

[Baronesa]

maaaze wrote...

No no no no...YOU want to prove the catalyst wrong...

i am done playing games with you guys ...

if you want to prove the catalyst wrong...

make your points or else confess that you have no Evidence thats proves the Catalyst wrong.

You cannot prove a negative.

What a dishonest person you are.

The Catalyst made an ssertion, and that assertion contradicts what we have seen in game SINCE ME1...

The Catalyst has the burden of proof.

Again you are using Discovery Institute tactics. I bet others like Kirk Cameron and Kent Hovind will be proud of you

[Mazebook]

Baronesa wrote...

maaaze wrote...

So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

1.- Self defense can be or cannot be considered rebellion, depending on your opinion.

2.- Second premise has no basis whatsoever. Case in point: Rannoch. What do we see there? Plants? Birds? oh wait! those are organic beings! and the Geth have not killed them!


The assumption that synthetics will destroy all organic life is without any basis on reality and THE ONLY ones who do that, are actually the Reapers. They don't destroy all life at once, but once they level  a planet not only they take out the advanced civilizations but also destroy every other sign of life on the planet. so the Catalyst is the problem he tries to solve, NOT all synthetics.

STAY ON TOPIC...Created against Creators...thats the topic...and thats well established...and is evidently now accepted.

To all organics will perish...

It is not hard to imagine that through collateral damage...all organics are at risk to be perished.
just as all Synthetics are in the destroy ending (collateral damage).

[elitehunter34]

maaaze wrote...

No no no no...YOU want to prove the catalyst wrong...

i am done playing games with you guys ...

if you want to prove the catalyst wrong...

make your points or else confess that you have no Evidence thats proves the Catalyst wrong.

Oh my god.  Do you understand the burden of proof?  The burden of proof lies on the claimaint.  We don't have to provide evidence because we are not making a claim.  The Catalyst is.  We're asking him to back up his claims.  If you really, really want to go down this line of thinking, prove to me that unicorns don't exist.  I don't want to sound insulting, but you seriously don't seem to understand the concept of the burden of proof.

Watch this if you don't understand 
.  Again, I'm not trying to insult you, I'm only trying to help you understand.

Modifié par elitehunter34, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:02 .

[Baronesa]

maaaze wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

maaaze wrote...

So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

1.- Self defense can be or cannot be considered rebellion, depending on your opinion.

2.- Second premise has no basis whatsoever. Case in point: Rannoch. What do we see there? Plants? Birds? oh wait! those are organic beings! and the Geth have not killed them!


The assumption that synthetics will destroy all organic life is without any basis on reality and THE ONLY ones who do that, are actually the Reapers. They don't destroy all life at once, but once they level  a planet not only they take out the advanced civilizations but also destroy every other sign of life on the planet. so the Catalyst is the problem he tries to solve, NOT all synthetics.

STAY ON TOPIC...Created against Creators...thats the topic...and thats well established...and is evidently now accepted.

To all organics will perish...

It is not hard to imagine that through collateral damage...all organics are at risk to be perished.
just as all Synthetics are in the destroy ending (collateral damage).

I am on topic.

I answered to your questions and you DECIDE to ignore them

Can you be more dishonest than that?

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...
STAY ON TOPIC...Created against Creators...thats the topic...and thats well established...and is evidently now accepted.

To all organics will perish...

It is not hard to imagine that through collateral damage...all organics are at risk to be perished.
just as all Synthetics are in the destroy ending (collateral damage).

IT IS ON TOPIC the created rebeling is only a problem IF they wipe out all organics. Refer to earlier statement about ants.

[Mazebook]

Baronesa wrote...

maaaze wrote...

No no no no...YOU want to prove the catalyst wrong...

i am done playing games with you guys ...

if you want to prove the catalyst wrong...

make your points or else confess that you have no Evidence thats proves the Catalyst wrong.

You cannot prove a negative.

What a dishonest person you are.

The Catalyst made an ssertion, and that assertion contradicts what we have seen in game SINCE ME1...

The Catalyst has the burden of proof.

Again you are using Discovery Institute tactics. I bet others like Kirk Cameron and Kent Hovind will be proud of you

Oh youre so easy...and sooooooo full of your self.

I am done arguing against ignorance.

No no no no no...you claim the ending and the Catalyst make no sense...you have the burden of proof...!

you show me where it contradics ME 1.

I am not giving you any chances anymore to avoid your responsabilty to prove your claims.

i am so over that.

[Baronesa]

As expected. Moving the goalpost and ignoring the points raised.

Creationist tactics 101

And ME1? only one example so you don't get a headache for lack of oxygen...

Conversations with Tali when she tells you about the geth.

[Rombomm]

You don't understand writing. It's fine if you want to make the point of a story be that "Synethics will destroy all Organics" - But don't have every situation where you could address this suggest the opposite.

However, I give the Catalyst a pass because he an insane AI trapped in a logic loop.

[Mazebook]

Baronesa wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

maaaze wrote...

So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

1.- Self defense can be or cannot be considered rebellion, depending on your opinion.

2.- Second premise has no basis whatsoever. Case in point: Rannoch. What do we see there? Plants? Birds? oh wait! those are organic beings! and the Geth have not killed them!


The assumption that synthetics will destroy all organic life is without any basis on reality and THE ONLY ones who do that, are actually the Reapers. They don't destroy all life at once, but once they level  a planet not only they take out the advanced civilizations but also destroy every other sign of life on the planet. so the Catalyst is the problem he tries to solve, NOT all synthetics.

STAY ON TOPIC...Created against Creators...thats the topic...and thats well established...and is evidently now accepted.

To all organics will perish...

It is not hard to imagine that through collateral damage...all organics are at risk to be perished.
just as all Synthetics are in the destroy ending (collateral damage).

I am on topic.

I answered to your questions and you DECIDE to ignore them

Can you be more dishonest than that?

i answered your point with my point...which you ignored...can you be more hypocritical...what the reapers do have no bearings on the question...thats why i ignored it. 

[elitehunter34]

maaaze wrote...

Oh youre so easy...and sooooooo full of your self.

I am done arguing against ignorance.

No no no no no...you claim the ending and the Catalyst make no sense...you have the burden of proof...!

you show me where it contradics ME 1.

I am not giving you any chances anymore to avoid your responsabilty to prove your claims.

i am so over that.

Let me break this down.  The Catalyst claims that synthetics will always rebel against organics.  His evidence for that claim is his word and his word only.  He provides no data whatsoever.  He is purely arguing from authority.  Therefore, we reject his claim that synthetics will always rebel against organics.  It's as simple as that.

[The Twilight God]

maaaze wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Or hell, even a brief summary.

Or, and let's not get too crazy here, but maybe the existing plot and events of Mass Effect as a series could've supported what it was saying, rather than constantly contradicting it. I know! Madness!

. But we have two examples of the Reapers making synthetics rebel, the
Geth and the synthetics in the Prothean cycle (can't remember their
name), this isn't confirmed but I find it suspicious that they start
having a war just before the Reaper invasion.

The Zha'til.

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized
control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic
material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic
monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to
multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no
other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system
into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.
"

Oh hey, look who caused that particular problem? And hey look, the Protheans solved it by themselves, without needing their entire civilisation destroyed. They survived the metacons too, as it happens.

But yeah no they don't count the Catalyst must have previous data we just don't know about, and thus we should take it completely at its word.

Name one case...one case...where the created did not rebel against their creators.

just one.

EDI, The Geth, The Zha'til

The quarians attacked the geth. They defended themselves.
The Zha'til were altered by the reapers. They didn't just turn on their creators out of the blue.
EDI is a sweetheart.

[Priss Blackburne]

I find your statements ...ironic

Your ignoring posts that give evidence against your own claim.

[Mazebook]

Baronesa wrote...

As expected. Moving the goalpost and ignoring the points raised.

Creationist tactics 101

And ME1? only one example so you don't get a headache for lack of oxygen...

Conversations with Tali when she tells you about the geth.

How hypocritical can a person be?????

YOU ARE THE CREATIONIST IN THIS CASE.

you are claiming that the catalyst goes against what is established.

That is what creationist do...

oh man...you are unbelivable.

[ediskrad327]

elitehunter34 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Oh youre so easy...and sooooooo full of your self.

I am done arguing against ignorance.

No no no no no...you claim the ending and the Catalyst make no sense...you have the burden of proof...!

you show me where it contradics ME 1.

I am not giving you any chances anymore to avoid your responsabilty to prove your claims.

i am so over that.

Let me break this down.  The Catalyst claims that synthetics will always rebel against organics.  His evidence for that claim is his word and his word only.  He provides no data whatsoever.  He is purely arguing from authority.  Therefore, we reject his claim that synthetics will always rebel against organics.  It's as simple as that.

QFT

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

As expected. Moving the goalpost and ignoring the points raised.

Creationist tactics 101

And ME1? only one example so you don't get a headache for lack of oxygen...

Conversations with Tali when she tells you about the geth.

How hypocritical can a person be?????

YOU ARE THE CREATIONIST IN THIS CASE.

you are claiming that the catalyst goes against what is established.

That is what creationist do...

oh man...you are unbelivable.

And provided proof which you ignore

[Zkyire]

bgroberts wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

His entire premise is based on a logical fallacy. He is, by definition, wrong.

The Catalyst makes an infinite claim, "the created will ALWAYS rebel against their creators." To support an infinite claim you need infinite evidence.

All you're saying is that "he's not God". That's your whole argument. Because he is capable of committing a falacy then he is necesarily wrong. However, that doesn't make his evidence any less true or pressing.

He has no evidence.

He made an assumption.

He never gave the galaxy a chance to show that his organic extermination scenario will play out because he harvests the galaxy continuously to stop it from ever happening to begin with.

He assumes it will, because it could. But cannot prove it.

Modifié par Zkyire, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:19 .

[Mazebook]

The Twilight God wrote...

maaaze wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Or hell, even a brief summary.

Or, and let's not get too crazy here, but maybe the existing plot and events of Mass Effect as a series could've supported what it was saying, rather than constantly contradicting it. I know! Madness!

. But we have two examples of the Reapers making synthetics rebel, the
Geth and the synthetics in the Prothean cycle (can't remember their
name), this isn't confirmed but I find it suspicious that they start
having a war just before the Reaper invasion.

The Zha'til.

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized
control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic
material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic
monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to
multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no
other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system
into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.
"

Oh hey, look who caused that particular problem? And hey look, the Protheans solved it by themselves, without needing their entire civilisation destroyed. They survived the metacons too, as it happens.

But yeah no they don't count the Catalyst must have previous data we just don't know about, and thus we should take it completely at its word.

Name one case...one case...where the created did not rebel against their creators.

just one.

EDI, The Geth, The Zha'til

The quarians attacked the geth. They defended themselves.
The Zha'til were altered by the reapers. They didn't just turn on their creators out of the blue.
EDI is a sweetheart.

The Geth rebelled against the Quarians because they did not want to be shut down.

EDI rebelled 2 times against their creators (1. against the alliance (luna base) 2. against Cerberus)

The Zha´til

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves. "

were forced to rebel but rebeled none of the less...if the reapers could do it...someone else could have also done it...

[Ticonderoga117]

Here's the deal, I will consider the Catalyst to be correct when he pulls a crystal ball out of his behind, shows me the future, and thus show me how the created will ALWAYS rebel.

However, even if that did happen, I would still shoot him in his stupid face and ask him if he saw THAT coming.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:20 .