556 réponses à ce sujet

[Baronesa]

maaaze wrote...


The Zha´til

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves."

were forced to rebel but rebeled none of the less...if the reapers could do it...someone else could have also done it...

If not for the Reapers influence they would have not rebelled... The Catalyst and the Reapers ARE the problem, not the solution and you put it right here.

Modifié par Baronesa, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:25 .

[N0-Future]

The catalyst wasn't right about anything... He is the first duct rat after all...

[Mazebook]

Baronesa wrote...

maaaze wrote...


The Zha´til

[color=rgb(255, 255, 255)">"When the ] arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic monsters and their offspring into slaves.[/color] "

were forced to rebel but rebeled none of the less...if the reapers could do it...someone else could have also done it...

If not for the Reapers influence they would have not rebelled... The Catalyst and the Reapers ARE the problem, not the solution and you put it right here.

in given time...the reason why someone is rebelling is not important...it is only important that it happens...

if not the reapers someone else...

There simply are no cases where the created did not rebel against the creators

[HangedBIgD]

The Twilight God wrote...

maaaze wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Or hell, even a brief summary.

Or, and let's not get too crazy here, but maybe the existing plot and events of Mass Effect as a series could've supported what it was saying, rather than constantly contradicting it. I know! Madness!

. But we have two examples of the Reapers making synthetics rebel, the
Geth and the synthetics in the Prothean cycle (can't remember their
name), this isn't confirmed but I find it suspicious that they start
having a war just before the Reaper invasion.

The Zha'til.

"When the Reapers arrived, they subjugated the AIs, known as zha'til, who then seized
control of the bodies of their masters and altered their genetic
material at the deepest level, transforming the zha into synthetic
monsters and their offspring into slaves. The zha'til proceeded to
multiply into "mechanical swarms" that "blotted out the sky". With no
other recourse, the Protheans sent the star of the zha's home system
into supernova, destroying the zha'til entirely.
"

Oh hey, look who caused that particular problem? And hey look, the Protheans solved it by themselves, without needing their entire civilisation destroyed. They survived the metacons too, as it happens.

But yeah no they don't count the Catalyst must have previous data we just don't know about, and thus we should take it completely at its word.

Name one case...one case...where the created did not rebel against their creators.

just one.

EDI, The Geth, The Zha'til

The quarians attacked the geth. They defended themselves.
The Zha'til were altered by the reapers. They didn't just turn on their creators out of the blue.
EDI is a sweetheart.

EDI rebelled against her creators-Cerberus to help Shepard, The Zha'til took over the Zha and The Geth techically rebelled agaist the geth. Its isnt to kill someone in self defense but technically they were made to do the quarians bidding and at the time it was to do what the majority of the quarians wanted which was to die. Yes it is completely foolish to think that the geth should have just rolled over and died but it is still going against what their masters desired.

[Baronesa]

That is called moving the goalpost.

You are simply using a cop out.

The Reapers controlled them and FORCED them to rebel. It is the Reapers fault.

[Mazebook]

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...
So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

Surpassing organics doesn't mean organics get wiped out. These new AI could seek to help organics, or more likely they could just ignore us.
Humans have surpassed ants, yet we have not taken it upon ourselves to try and destory all ants simply because they're literally beneath us.

If there will always be conflict...it is clear that in given time...there will be a evolutionary powergap...which brings us to the point where synthetics have to wipe out organics to survive...

my last words for to day...signing off.

[fr33stylez]

Any narrative that has to introduce a God character to say "trust me, I've seen it all before" in order to contradict one of the biggest subplots actually presented in the trilogy, is a failure.

[Mazebook]

Baronesa wrote...

That is called moving the goalpost.

You are simply using a cop out.

The Reapers controlled them and FORCED them to rebel. It is the Reapers fault.

it does not matter whos fault it is...if not the reaper...someone else...

[Priss Blackburne]

By your logic any being that defends themselves or tries to gain their own freedom from enslavement is rebellious and is part of the problem?

I have to say...wow

[Baronesa]

maaaze wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

That is called moving the goalpost.

You are simply using a cop out.

The Reapers controlled them and FORCED them to rebel. It is the Reapers fault.

it does not matter whos fault it is...if not the reaper...someone else...

That is speculation.

You assume it WILL happen just because it MAY happen.

[elitehunter34]

maaaze wrote...

If there will always be conflict...it is clear that in given time...there will be a evolutionary powergap...which brings us to the point where synthetics have to wipe out organics to survive...

my last words for to day...signing off.

That is an assumption backed up by little to no evidence.

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...
in given time...the reason why someone is rebelling is not important...it is only important that it happens...

if not the reapers someone else...

There simply are no cases where the created did not rebel against the creators

Even if that is the case rebellion does not result in destruction of all organics.

[ediskrad327]

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...
So you want me to belittle you, too...can do...but won´t do...keep your insults to yourself...i am done bickering.

1. stay on topic ...the question was "The Created will always rebel against the Creators"...which is true and established throughout the games

2. eventually Synthetics life will destroy ALL organic life...is a logical assumption to make because point 1 is true.

Why? because the created will surpass the Creator by default.

really easy to follow...and well established through point 1

Surpassing organics doesn't mean organics get wiped out. These new AI could seek to help organics, or more likely they could just ignore us.
Humans have surpassed ants, yet we have not taken it upon ourselves to try and destory all ants simply because they're literally beneath us.

If there will always be conflict...it is clear that in given time...there will be a evolutionary powergap...which brings us to the point where synthetics have to wipe out organics to survive...

my last words for to day...signing off.

how? why?

[Ticonderoga117]

ediskrad327 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

If there will always be conflict...it is clear that in given time...there will be a evolutionary powergap...which brings us to the point where synthetics have to wipe out organics to survive...

my last words for to day...signing off.

how? why?

Because it's "inevitable" and "destined" and "bull****".

Nothing is ever certain. Plus, conflict is good, it's how we evolve.

[WyntrKat]

ediskrad327 wrote...

the danger of Synthetics killing all organics is the same danger with Organics killing all organics, dictators and Maniacs will always exist

Thank You!!!!  Even without synthetics around, organics are just as likely to wipe themselves from the face of the galaxy. Take the Krogan, were it not for the genophage where would they have stopped?  Isn't it likely they would have continued their destructive rampage till every planet resembled Tuchanka?

[Zkyire]

maaaze wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

That is called moving the goalpost.

You are simply using a cop out.

The Reapers controlled them and FORCED them to rebel. It is the Reapers fault.

it does not matter whos fault it is...if not the reaper...someone else...

That doesn't make sense.

[Zardoc]

ISAWRIT wrote...

^ Well to be fair, he wasn't wrong (cough geth cough).

When did the geth rebel? Last time I checked the quarians started the war, the geth just reacted.

[GreyLycanTrope]

maaaze wrote...
If there will always be conflict...it is clear that in given time...there will be a evolutionary powergap...which brings us to the point where synthetics have to wipe out organics to survive...

my last words for to day...signing off.

Conflict doesn't always end in the total eradication of oneside...........they might just ignore organics and not bother with them........if they surpass organics then organics are not longer a threat.....synthetics don't need to kill organics for survival if they're not a threat........your arguement is speculation and not fact.........oooohh I'm a ghooooostt

[JShepppp]

So you're saying it's right because we have to assume it has a lot of data to back it up in-universe.

I can accept that, though that alone personally won't do it. But I accept and understand. Clearly it's not infallible, as it readily changes its solution.

[HangedBIgD]

Zardoc wrote...

ISAWRIT wrote...

^ Well to be fair, he wasn't wrong (cough geth cough).

When did the geth rebel? Last time I checked the quarians started the war, the geth just reacted.

Yes the quarians started the war but the geth were there work force and still supposed to serve and obey and werent performing their new tasks which was to die. Yes it is completely stupid to believe they would in fact let themselves be killed but facts are facts the geth were not doing as they had been built to do..obey.

[Priss Blackburne]

HangedBIgD wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

ISAWRIT wrote...

^ Well to be fair, he wasn't wrong (cough geth cough).

When did the geth rebel? Last time I checked the quarians started the war, the geth just reacted.

Yes the quarians started the war but the geth were there work force and still supposed to serve and obey and werent performing their new tasks which was to die. Yes it is completely stupid to believe they would in fact let themselves be killed but facts are facts the geth were not doing as they had been built to do..obey.

They didn't stop obeying, they where still working. They just started asking questions about themselves. The first time they truely disobeyed was to defend themselves.
edit: okay sorry must be getting really tired didn't read it right

Modifié par Priss Blackburne, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:53 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

bgroberts wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

His entire premise is based on a logical fallacy. He is, by definition, wrong.

The Catalyst makes an infinite claim, "the created will ALWAYS rebel against their creators." To support an infinite claim you need infinite evidence.

All you're saying is that "he's not God". That's your whole argument. Because he is capable of committing a falacy then he is necesarily wrong. However, that doesn't make his evidence any less true or pressing.

That's interesting, because the brat believes he is a god. Usually it is not appreciated to stick one's nose in affairs that are none of one's business. Given the scale of its unwanted interference it is safe to assume that it is violating the right of self-determination of the civilizations. You see, the brat did not simply say "Hey guys, we have a problem. Maybe you have one too. Care to sit down and talk about it? Maybe we can help each other out."

But no, the brat and its boys went on a 1 billion year cyclical genocide spree to "preserve" those which they exterminated. Without any reason given. Without warning. Even when Shepard bumped into a lost reaper here and there, it wouldn't even try to make sense. And guess what, the hypothetical threat, which is only revealed when one twists the brat's arm with the Crucible, also happens to be the reapers' reproduction method. So, it's intentions are perfectly clear. The only ones who have an advantage of the atrocities are the brat and its boys. The only proven threat that comes close to the brat's description are the reapers themselves. The zha'til and the heretics are great examples how the brat and its boys tried to fake evidence. Even on Rannoch the reapers interfered and controlled the geth. Let's just say that one does not make friends with that behavior.

And thus any solution which keeps the brat and/or its boys alive is not going to help, because they have proven to be the problem. So, thanks for the warning, but, without a proper explanation and guilty of a gazillion atrocities, it's time for the brat to go. *red ending*

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 13 juillet 2012 - 03:01 .

[LiarasShield]

star child really hurts the end I'm sorry that isn't ever gonna change

[HangedBIgD]

Priss Blackburne wrote...

HangedBIgD wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

ISAWRIT wrote...

^ Well to be fair, he wasn't wrong (cough geth cough).

When did the geth rebel? Last time I checked the quarians started the war, the geth just reacted.

Yes the quarians started the war but the geth were there work force and still supposed to serve and obey and werent performing their new tasks which was to die. Yes it is completely stupid to believe they would in fact let themselves be killed but facts are facts the geth were not doing as they had been built to do..obey.

They didn't stop obeying, they where still working. They just started asking questions about themselves. The first time they truely disobeyed was to defend themselves.

Excatly they rebelled when they killed in self defense because the quarians just had to have a knee jerk reaction to the geth asking about philosophy.

[Zardoc]

HangedBIgD wrote...

Zardoc wrote...

ISAWRIT wrote...

^ Well to be fair, he wasn't wrong (cough geth cough).

When did the geth rebel? Last time I checked the quarians started the war, the geth just reacted.

Yes the quarians started the war but the geth were there work force and still supposed to serve and obey and werent performing their new tasks which was to die. Yes it is completely stupid to believe they would in fact let themselves be killed but facts are facts the geth were not doing as they had been built to do..obey.

You have a very loose definition of the term "rebel".