200 réponses à ce sujet

[Evebrey]

What’s so BAD about the Synthesis Ending?

I keep seeing people claim that the Synthesis Ending is the worst possible ending to the game, but I don’t really see this. I’m mostly writing this to find out why this is? I thought the ending was fitting for my (Paragon) Shepard but I really want to know more about the opposing opinions.

Why I think it’s the best ending (at least for my Shepard)-

  This ending allowed my Commander to achieve what he has been fighting for the past two games. As a (PROUD) Tali romancer the whole Geth/Quarian Plot has been very important to my character and has had lead to the decisions with the highest amount of emotional backlash. Shepard has been pushing the idea of coexistence for a long time. A prime example of this dates back to the argument between Legion, whom I offered my full trust and Tali my romantic partner. The Commander refused to take a stand with either of them even if it might have cost him his loyal partner, and convinced them to work together. This comes up again in Mass Effect 3   in the fight for Rannoch. As the reaper was defeated, my idea of organic and synthetic co existence came into question by the reaper. The reaper told us that the idea was impossible but Shepard didn’t give up and became that much more determined to prove them wrong.  The decision to choose between the Quarians and the Geth was instantaneous for me. Even though the Geth were Synthetic they were obviously the victims and deserved a chance live. Shepard’s views didn’t change even after Tali plead her case. Fortunately, for the both us, the option to convince the fleet became available and we did just that.

Ok now fast forward to the end game.

When the Godchild gave me an option that would allow mutual understanding by both synthetics and organics the path to the (GOOD) conclusion to my chronicle presented itself. This would allow for the Quarians and the Geth to live in (hopefully) eternal peace, but it wasn’t just that. The Reapers would stop being Chaos lacking purpose and understanding of Organic existence while the humans would learn the value of synthetic life. I’m not going to lie; I didn’t take this choice without doubt. I felt almost like organics were being forced into this new step of evolution. Fortunately, this doubt disappeared as the Catalyst informed me that this wasn‘t a forced advancement. The Galaxy was ready and Galactic Collaboration was just the Prologue to this new step. The only reason this wasn’t possible in the past (at least in this cycle) was that it was impossible for Organic to understand Synthetics and Vice Versa.

Final Thoughts.

No, I don’t think ending treats synthetics as non-living entities. I think it focuses more in mutual understanding. Emotions for Synthetics and Value for artificial life for Organics.

Fate of ‘The Shepard’:
Even thought Shepard survives at the end of the ‘Destroy’ ending I don’t think that makes it the best ending. My Shepard stood for what he believed and was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to ensure peace for everyone in the galaxy, including the Reapers. I like to think he serves as a modern type of Jesus, giving his life to amend for everyone’s sins.

Organics= Destruction of all AI s (Genocide), Attacks against the Geth, the Councils Strict AI Prohibition, etc.
Synthetic= Reaper Attacks, Geth Heretics, the Attack on Luna, etc. Again, this is all my opinion and I’m excited to read about what others think.

Modifié par Evebrey, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:59 .

[lx_theo]

What's so wrong with it is that some people go to the ends of the Earth to assume the worst possible outcome from it based on what wasn't directly explained to their face.

Some like to ignore what was directly explained to their face, as well.

EDIT: At least that's in regards to the people who pronounce Synthesis as like some ultimate evil. There are plenty of people who just don't like it in contrast to the others, which is completely reasonable.

Modifié par lx_theo, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:02 .

[MB957]

for me , synthesis doesnt work because it is forced upon the galaxy without its consent. I like the idea of utopian peace and harmony....

but not at the cost of every living things free will.

[StevenG_CT]

Evebrey wrote...

What’s so BAD about the Synthesis Ending?

Depends on your personal perspective. There have been many valid arguments posted in other threads describing why it is abhorrent. The same can be said for all of the endings. In general each person has their own preference on the endings and many of them are seeking to prove that everyone else is wrong by starting threads about why their favorite ending must be the best one and how they can't understand how anyone else could possibly disagree. Pretty much exactly what you've done here...

[OdanUrr]

Two reasons why I personally don't buy it:

1) It makes no sense. The idea of synthetics turning into organics has not been explored in the Mass Effect universe before and has no scientific basis for it that I'm aware of. I'm not sure it even qualifies as science fiction.

2) Shepard is effectively turning everyone into a new species without their consent. If it were the only way to defeat the Reapers, it would've presented an interesting dilemma: are you prepared to save the galaxy even if it means taking away their free will?

Nonetheless, I respect it as a choice that suffered from a serious lack of exposition as did the majority of the ending and, to some extent, ME3 as a whole.

[Casticus]

Synthetics are an abomination and an affront to the dignity of the only true form of life: organics.

[Evebrey]

Yea, That's kind of what I originally felt too, but based on what the Catalyst told us I felt like it was more about awareness.

I find this hard to explain but I Imagine it would be similar to a human suddenly being aware that your computer was capable of thought and emotion. After knowing this it might become harder for you to type on it knowing that the keystrokes hurt her.

That analogy hardly makes sense.

[Clayless]

Aparently it's worse than killing everyone.

"I think it's wrong to force my will upon every being in the galaxy and forcibly change them, therefore I'm going to let them all die instead".

[Genetic Destiny]

I've been fighting cyborg-zombie slaves (which includes Cerberus) the whole game, and just killed 4 more on my way to the citadel. Then I get an option from a reaper entity to combine organic and synthetic entities for a new DNA. Even with me being too sleepy to disagree with most of the catalyst's logic (pre EC btw), I still had a serious problem with Synthesis.

[Evebrey]

haha, I guess I was the only one who didn't feel like Synthesis was about Brain Washing, but yea I see what you guys mean. I wanted to stay as far away as I could from mind controlling, that's actually why I didn't choose the Control ending. I feel like the ending might be way too open to interpretation but I do stand with you guys. If I would have felt that it would lead to brain washing then I wouldn't have gone with synthesis.

I still feel like the whole " It's not a thing you can force" part is very important.

Modifié par Evebrey, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:19 .

[Evebrey]

Well that's what the Catalyst said. I think what this means is that people are still people and organics still have the option to hate synthetics but, the fact that they now understand each other deters violence and encourages peace.

I mean even when the Humans joined the Galactic Community the process was very fast and the council did their best to incorporate them with the rest of the species. I feel like synthetics are just the new species to join them.

[Tealjaker94]

1) synthetics don't have DNA
2) it's not something I think most people would appreciate
3) the epilogue is complete and utter bull****. Don't try to tell me that Javik is fine with being part-synthetic unless he ended up like Winston Smith.

[What a Succulent Ass]

[OdanUrr]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

Aparently it's worse than killing everyone.

"I think it's wrong to force my will upon every being in the galaxy and forcibly change them, therefore I'm going to let them all die instead".

I can see where you're coming from, but I believe there's a difference. It is true that inaction is also a choice and, sometimes, it is better to choose the wrong path than none at all. The reason I could see for one of my Shepards choosing Refusal is very simple: it's too much of a responsibility. Indeed, it would be an incredible burden for anyone. There can be multiple iterations of Shepards, one such might think along the lines of:

"I set out to destroy the Reapers, but I'm not willing to make a choice that will condemn one race for the benefit of all others. However, I also won't impose my will on the galaxy as a whole only because it can put an end to the Reaper threat. I do not think I can make a decision on behalf of the entire galaxy. So I choose to refuse the options laid before me, recognizing it's not the ideal choice, but the only one I can live with for what little remains of all of our lives."

A Shepard might think this way. Another might think differently.

[barbara2012]

What’s so BAD about the Synthesis Ending?

Its creeeeeeeeeeeeeepy

[daaaav]

I don't like the idea that the only way for two groups of folks to be civilised to each other is to FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE something about one or both. It's that simple.

Scientific implausibility and 'space magic' are also up there.

[Phydeaux314]

Nice pic.

ANYWAY!

My objections to Synthesis don't stem from the consequences - I'm a transhumanist, and I personally love the ideas presented in the Synthesis ending. I definitely consider to to be the "best" ending from a perspective of long-term consequences. The problems I have with it are exclusively from a narrative perspective.

1. It goes against the grain of everything Shepard has been saying and doing the entire series. A renegade shepard will likely want to see the reapers dead for the horrors that they've inflicted, and will accept no other outcome. A paragon shepard would point out that war with synthetics is not inevitable. Both would point out that forcing a change like that on the entire galaxy is wrong.

2. It removes the entire cathartic element of the game in destroying the people that have hurt us. We, the players, are human, and we can be a pretty vengeful bunch. When we're getting our face smashed in by exactly how evil and oppressive and heartless the Reapers are, it's VERY hard to swallow an ending that involves them not only being right, but arguably "winning" and succeeding at their goal. Never mind that it may be the best outcome - it's not a satisfying outcome.

3. It's left largely unexplained what the consequences are, even in the extended cut. I don't know why, perhaps they wanted to leave it up to the players. Regardless, we're left with more questions than answers, and that only makes it worse - "so you mean I surrendered to the enemy and all I got was my love interest glowing green?"

4. It's the least satisfying ending from a personal perspective. Shepard is dead, gone, and that's it. The messianic archetype - lol shepherd - was old when the freaking bible did it, and I'm not really a fan of religious-esque sacrifices in my science fiction stories. I played this game for the characters, people, and the relations I had with it as much as I did to discover what the reapers were and how to stop them. It's a terribly hollow victory to have all that taken away from me.

5. The game is, by and large, a fairly "hard" science fiction story when compared to other works of fiction. However, we are given NO explanation as to how jumping in a giant energy beam will possibly change all life in the galaxy. None. Zilch. Zip. It's a technobabble handwave that seriously frustrates me.

So there you have it. It's my favorite ending for long term effect, and the one I will never pick because of how we get there. There'd be an interesting enough argument over the morality of forcing a change on the entire galaxy. Throwing all the rest of it in there just felt like they were trying to make a bad pun on Shepard's name.

[Evebrey]

OdanUrr wrote...

... A Shepard might think this way. Another might think differently.

I'm glad you mentioned other Shepards. This was something I hoped to get acros. Synthesis was the ending that was perfect for my Shepard the same way the Destroy ending could be for another Shepard. I Just don't understand why Synthesis is as HORID as people make it seem. I mean it wasn't a GREAT ending but none of the were. 

@Barabara: Ok yes, the Green Eyes are VERY kind of Creepy. 

[Evebrey]

Phydeaux314 wrote...

Nice pic.

ANYWAY!

My objections to Synthesis don't stem from the consequences - I'm a transhumanist, and I personally love the ideas presented in the Synthesis ending. I definitely consider to to be the "best" ending from a perspective of long-term consequences. The problems I have with it are exclusively from a narrative perspective.

1. It goes against the grain of everything Shepard has been saying and doing the entire series. A renegade shepard will likely want to see the reapers dead for the horrors that they've inflicted, and will accept no other outcome. A paragon shepard would point out that war with synthetics is not inevitable. Both would point out that forcing a change like that on the entire galaxy is wrong.

2. It removes the entire cathartic element of the game in destroying the people that have hurt us. We, the players, are human, and we can be a pretty vengeful bunch. When we're getting our face smashed in by exactly how evil and oppressive and heartless the Reapers are, it's VERY hard to swallow an ending that involves them not only being right, but arguably "winning" and succeeding at their goal. Never mind that it may be the best outcome - it's not a satisfying outcome.

3. It's left largely unexplained what the consequences are, even in the extended cut. I don't know why, perhaps they wanted to leave it up to the players. Regardless, we're left with more questions than answers, and that only makes it worse - "so you mean I surrendered to the enemy and all I got was my love interest glowing green?"

4. It's the least satisfying ending from a personal perspective. Shepard is dead, gone, and that's it. The messianic archetype - lol shepherd - was old when the freaking bible did it, and I'm not really a fan of religious-esque sacrifices in my science fiction stories. I played this game for the characters, people, and the relations I had with it as much as I did to discover what the reapers were and how to stop them. It's a terribly hollow victory to have all that taken away from me.

5. The game is, by and large, a fairly "hard" science fiction story when compared to other works of fiction. However, we are given NO explanation as to how jumping in a giant energy beam will possibly change all life in the galaxy. None. Zilch. Zip. It's a technobabble handwave that seriously frustrates me.

So there you have it. It's my favorite ending for long term effect, and the one I will never pick because of how we get there. There'd be an interesting enough argument over the morality of forcing a change on the entire galaxy. Throwing all the rest of it in there just felt like they were trying to make a bad pun on Shepard's name.

Man, I can agree with most of the things you said I only disagree with a few things. 

Personally I don't thnk that it's the least rewarding ending. As a player I was always trying to find the best way to win conflicts with the least amount of deaths. Being able to work together with the Reapers felt like a Win Win to me. Both parties were caple of harmonic lifes. There weren't any explosions in the end and that was the best part.

To tell you the Truth the SPAGE MAGIC did bug me a bit, but it was the Lesser Evil in my Opinion.

[noobcannon]

Evebrey wrote...

What’s so BAD about the Synthesis Ending?

I keep seeing people claim that the Synthesis Ending is the worst possible ending to the game, but I don’t really see this. I’m mostly writing this to find out why this is? I thought the ending was fitting for my (Paragon) Shepard but I really want to know more about the opposing opinions.

Why I think it’s the best ending (at least for my Shepard)-

  This ending allowed my Commander to achieve what he has been fighting for the past two games. As a (PROUD) Tali romancer the whole Geth/Quarian Plot has been very important to my character and has had lead to the decisions with the highest amount of emotional backlash. Shepard has been pushing the idea of coexistence for a long time. A prime example of this dates back to the argument between Legion, whom I offered my full trust and Tali my romantic partner. The Commander refused to take a stand with either of them even if it might have cost him his loyal partner, and convinced them to work together. This comes up again in Mass Effect 3   in the fight for Rannoch. As the reaper was defeated, my idea of organic and synthetic co existence came into question by the reaper. The reaper told us that the idea was impossible but Shepard didn’t give up and became that much more determined to prove them wrong.  The decision to choose between the Quarians and the Geth was instantaneous for me. Even though the Geth were Synthetic they were obviously the victims and deserved a chance live. Shepard’s views didn’t change even after Tali plead her case. Fortunately, for the both us, the option to convince the fleet became available and we did just that.

Ok now fast forward to the end game.

When the Godchild gave me an option that would allow mutual understanding by both synthetics and organics the path to the (GOOD) conclusion to my chronicle presented itself. This would allow for the Quarians and the Geth to live in (hopefully) eternal peace, but it wasn’t just that. The Reapers would stop being Chaos lacking purpose and understanding of Organic existence while the humans would learn the value of synthetic life. I’m not going to lie; I didn’t take this choice without doubt. I felt almost like organics were being forced into this new step of evolution. Fortunately, this doubt disappeared as the Catalyst informed me that this wasn‘t a forced advancement. The Galaxy was ready and Galactic Collaboration was just the Prologue to this new step. The only reason this wasn’t possible in the past (at least in this cycle) was that it was impossible for Organic to understand Synthetics and Vice Versa.

Final Thoughts.

No, I don’t think ending treats synthetics as non-living entities. I think it focuses more in mutual understanding. Emotions for Synthetics and Value for artificial life for Organics.

Fate of ‘The Shepard’:
Even thought Shepard survives at the end of the ‘Destroy’ ending I don’t think that makes it the best ending. My Shepard stood for what he believed and was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to ensure peace for everyone in the galaxy, including the Reapers. I like to think he serves as a modern type of Jesus, giving his life to amend for everyone’s sins.

Organics= Destruction of all AI s (Genocide), Attacks against the Geth, the Councils Strict AI Prohibition, etc.
Synthetic= Reaper Attacks, Geth Heretics, the Attack on Luna, etc. Again, this is all my opinion and I’m excited to read about what others think.

why even play mass effect 2 and mass effect 3 if you think synthesis is a viable option? why not just go back to mass effect 1 and team up with saren? i mean, that's what he wanted right? synthesis?

or is it okay to choose synthesis now because it's a bright happy space magic laser that turns everyones eyes green instead of something more cliche, evil, and robotic.... like saren?

Modifié par noobcannon, 13 juillet 2012 - 02:12 .

[Camronnba]

Synthesis sucks because it is contrived, abandons all scientific plausibility (an important thing to retain in sci-fi), and is poorly written. There is a thread about a literary professor who says it sucks, many high-level scientists have talked about how ridiculously stupid it is. Basically, it fails the science aspect, and the fiction aspect.

[legion999]

Everything.

[daaaav]

As for MY shepard, time and time and again he improved relations between synthetics and organics. At the end he was given no chance to vindicate his belief that synthetics and organics are already capable of 'understanding' each other.

It also didn't help that the game failed to convince me that there was a conflict was fundamentally inevitable in the first place... The Reapers are the sole cause of conflict.

I'm glad that your shepards were vindicated, I really am. Mine however, was thrown under the bus...