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[Jadebaby]

alienatedflea wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

alienatedflea wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Two reasons why I personally don't buy it:

1) It makes no sense. The idea of synthetics turning into organics has not been explored in the Mass Effect universe before and has no scientific basis for it that I'm aware of. I'm not sure it even qualifies as science fiction.

2) Shepard is effectively turning everyone into a new species without their consent. If it were the only way to defeat the Reapers, it would've presented an interesting dilemma: are you prepared to save the galaxy even if it means taking away their free will?

Nonetheless, I respect it as a choice that suffered from a serious lack of exposition as did the majority of the ending and, to some extent, ME3 as a whole.

huh? maybe you need to watch the synthesis EC ending again...that doesnt happen...

It was implied in the original endings and strengthened now with the EC, particularly in this scene:

um organics become hybrids while synthetics can finally understand the nature of oragnics...not synthetics turning into organics (literally)

Organic =/= Hybrid.

New species. Same works vice versa.

[alienatedflea]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Organic =/= Hybrid.

New species. Same works vice versa.

Explain.

[Romaka]

I posted this in another thread and it is simply my interpretation of it.

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive. But if they are not alive then how are they sentient prior? How come synthetics can develop emotions and personalities if they are not alive? Throughout ME2 and ME3 it is shown that synthetics do have their own opinions/personalities. The other point being made countless times before is that what is to stop new synthetics being made after Synthesis has happened and starting the problem all over again.

Now on to organics. Even if Synthesis were to occur how does it change anything ultimately? The only way peace would be the end case is if individuality does not exist anymore. If there is no individualism then how is it a good decision? If individuality still exists then what was the point in the first place of performing Synthesis? With individuality there will always be conflict but there would also be growth in science, culture, art etc. Without it all that stops.

Now for Reapers/Catalyst. Reapers are already a hybrid creature so Synthesis ultimately would do nothing for them other then remove their purpose. BUT at the same time the Catalyst states that their purpose is to protect organics from creating synthetics that would kill all organics by forging peace between them.

With Synthesis the Reapers/Catalyst have failed in their function. Organics no longer exist anymore so logically that means they failed. Synthetics at the point in time that Synthesis occurs also cease to exist but can be made after the fact while organics cannot since all life in the universe has now been subjected to becoming a hybrid.

One point that was raised in that thread was that it allowed organics and synthetics to communicate more effectively which I disagree with.  It is shown that Synthetics have the capability for emotions and personalities.  If Synthetics already had this capability then what does Synthesis do at all?  But anyways that is how I viewed Synthesis.

[Balek-Vriege]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

First we have the hypothetical synthetics threat. There is no evidence of such a threat. The only synthetics we have seen are in trouble because the reapers caused that trouble. That's true for the zha'til in Javik's cycle, true for the heretics and true for the geth at Rannoch. Then we have the quarians which caused the Morning War.

The only synthetics that we know of who turned against their creators were the reapers. The first "true" reaper turned against its creators without their approval. Then they systematically wiped out all civilizations every 50K years for aeons. That means that the only threat that comes close to the brat's description are the reapers themselves. It is interesting to note that the "ascension through destruction" method used is also the reproduction method of those very same reapers. Obviously the predators rather kept their cycles going then really do something about the "problem" they were supposed to fix. However, nobody asked them to "fix" that problem and they interfered without the consent in matters of those they were supposed to protect by exterminating them. In short they were violating the right of self-determination by the most horrific means imaginable. Their terror lasted for about 1 billion years.

If synthesis, which again is a violation of the right of self-determination, is to be a solution for that hypothetical threat then it makes no sense to join up with the brat and its boys and keep them alive, because, given the above, the brat and its boys are not the solution, they are the problem.

..Which is why if you believe that or if your Shepard believes that, there are the Destroy, Control and Refusal options...

The validity of the Catalyst's theory doesn't matter really, although it's harder to discount in the EC since it was a peace negotiator and make between Organics and Synthetics for who knows how long, before it became THE Reaper  (not even the first since the Reapers themselves seem to be enslaved by the Catalyst like husks, making it the only true Reaper).  It has a lot more experience and knowledge concerning Synthetic/Oranic relations.  The fact is if there was anything out there that could have convinced the Catalyst in the Mass Effect universe that it was wrong, it would have happened in the 37+ million years of , peacebrokering, watching and then Reaping.   What matters in the endings are the choices you make to a) Stop the Reapers and   What type of life comes after whether you believe in its logic or not.

Also in Synthesis you don't join up with the Catalyst since its function becomes redundant, even though it may still exist as an entity (which or or may not have been effected by Synthesis).  The closest thing  to joining the Catalyst is by replacing it in the Control ending.  Again the ethical issue of choosing the fate of everyone remains, but self determination is arguably stronger than ever in the Synthesis ending (again Tuchanka Utopia and a Quarian/Geth Golden Age).  It's just the Galaxy and life as we know ceases to be for better or worse.  Judging by the endings clips it seems totally for the better.

Edit:

Romaka wrote...

I posted this in another thread and it is simply my interpretation of it.

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive. But if they are not alive then how are they sentient prior? How come synthetics can develop emotions and personalities if they are not alive? Throughout ME2 and ME3 it is shown that synthetics do have their own opinions/personalities. The other point being made countless times before is that what is to stop new synthetics being made after Synthesis has happened and starting the problem all over again.

Now on to organics. Even if Synthesis were to occur how does it change anything ultimately? The only way peace would be the end case is if individuality does not exist anymore. If there is no individualism then how is it a good decision? If individuality still exists then what was the point in the first place of performing Synthesis? With individuality there will always be conflict but there would also be growth in science, culture, art etc. Without it all that stops.

Now for Reapers/Catalyst. Reapers are already a hybrid creature so Synthesis ultimately would do nothing for them other then remove their purpose. BUT at the same time the Catalyst states that their purpose is to protect organics from creating synthetics that would kill all organics by forging peace between them.

With Synthesis the Reapers/Catalyst have failed in their function. Organics no longer exist anymore so logically that means they failed. Synthetics at the point in time that Synthesis occurs also cease to exist but can be made after the fact while organics cannot since all life in the universe has now been subjected to becoming a hybrid.

One point that was raised in that thread was that it allowed organics and synthetics to communicate more effectively which I disagree with. It is shown that Synthetics have the capability for emotions and personalities. If Synthetics already had this capability then what does Synthesis do at all? But anyways that is how I viewed Synthesis.

EDI and Legion show the capacity was there, but EDI post Synthesis is much more empathetic than pre Synthesis.  Why?  Because they actually have full understanding of what it is to be an individual or organic.  Also they are most likely part organic themselves now (especialy if the DNA clip is actually EDI's biological/synthetic makeup). 

Also the Catalyst doesn't fail with Synthesis because organic life and substance still exists.  It's true uncorrupted goal was peace between Organics and Synthetics until it realized it had to protect Organics form Synthetics in its preverse way.  A solution which allows Organics and Synthetics to become hybrids and co-exists would fulfill its original purpose and directive.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 13 juillet 2012 - 07:39 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Romaka wrote...

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive.

If an organism is self-aware and capable of creative and independent thought then it doesn't matter whether this is achieved by a biochemical brain or a synthetic one. That means that for all intents and purposes synthetics are alive. And it also doesn't matter that they behave differently then you. Nor does the lack of any typical human traits means they are dead. Is a serial killer who lacks empathy dead?

[KingZayd]

Plasma Prestige wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Plasma Prestige wrote...

By picking Synthesis, you agree with the Reapers' notion that the coexistence of synthetics and organics is impractical or impossible. By picking Control, you save the Reapers... By choosing Refuse, you accept the Reapers fate for you...

Fixed that for you. 

If you're not going to defend yourself against valid criticism, then why argue at all? It is indisputable that Destroy goes along with the Reaper's notions just as much as Synthesis does. I never claimed Synthesis doesn't, but pointing it out is entirely irrelevant because every ending goes with the Reaper's notions, except Refusal.

Lol, how? If you're going along with what the Starchild tells you, Destroy is a stupid idea. Those who pick Destroy are the ones who believe peace between organics and synthetics is very much possible. It's coexistence with the Reapers that we are rejecting.

[KingZayd]

Plasma Prestige wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

Plasma Prestige wrote...

Volc19 wrote...

You every watch Doctor Who? Well, once we travel out of our galaxy and find new life while Synthesized, we basically become the Cybermen.

By picking Synthesis, you agree with the Reapers' notion that diversity ends up causing a cataclysm of untold proprtions. The new life won't be synthesized, and are therefore a ticking time bomb. I know the Reapers won't be having it, they still have their old goal in their minds. So, either the Reapers start reaping the new life, or you need to build a new Crucible to force Synthesis on them. Delete or Upgrade. We become the green scourge of the Universe.

By picking Destroy, you agree with the Reapers' notion that the coexistence of synthetics and organics is impractical or impossible. By picking Control, you save the Reapers... By choosing Refuse, you accept the Reapers fate for you...

I don't see how Synthesis is any worse than what I just described above.

Destroy goes against the Catalyst's logic, still preserving Synthetics' right to exist in the future by removing the culling of the Reapers.

Control saves the Reapers, but it bends them to Shepard's will. So the Reapers survive (just like in Synthesis, which is wierd because you seem to be defending it, yet you use the same detail as a negative point for Control), yet they are assisting the species of our Galaxy.

Refuse is only feuled by a distain for teh Reapers. No one goes in to refuse thinking "Alright, Reapers, just kill us."

Synthesis turns us into monsters who plauge the Galaxy, Synthesizing or killing all life in their path. Synthesis is much worse.

How does Synthesis turn us into "monsters"? Don't interject your biases in such a way to distort the facts. It is pretty clear that from EDI's narration that the galaxy is much better off with synthesis. 

Your justification for control is foolish. Do you honestly think Shepard was special? The Reapers probably told TIM he was special too, and even TIM said that he wanted to control the Reapers to protect humanity, but that's not how it ended, was it?

You do make a good point about Destroy, so I will give you that. However, I think the Catalyst's logic is sound. The fact that there is peace doesn't mean there won't be conflict, potentially species-threatening conflict due to a technological singularity. While the Reapers are a bad solution, no solution is also a bad solution.

So why is Shepard's energy required for Synthesis? Clearly Synthesis is also stupid on these grounds?

[Romaka]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive.

If an organism is self-aware and capable of creative and independent thought then it doesn't matter whether this is achieved by a biochemical brain or a synthetic one. That means that for all intents and purposes synthetics are alive. And it also doesn't matter that they behave differently then you. Nor does the lack of any typical human traits means they are dead. Is a serial killer who lacks empathy dead?

What I mean is in relation to the story.  I believe they are alive but only that the game implies otherwise at that point in time to me.

[Romaka]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

EDI and Legion show the capacity was there, but EDI post Synthesis is much more empathetic than pre Synthesis.  Why?  Because they actually have full understanding of what it is to be an individual or organic.  Also they are most likely part organic themselves now (especialy if the DNA clip is actually EDI's biological/synthetic makeup). 

Also the Catalyst doesn't fail with Synthesis because organic life and substance still exists.  It's true uncorrupted goal was peace between Organics and Synthetics until it realized it had to protect Organics form Synthetics in its preverse way.  A solution which allows Organics and Synthetics to become hybrids and co-exists would fulfill its original purpose and directive.

To me EDI was still in the "infant" stages of understanding but the capability was still there.  If it is there then why was Synthesis needed?

In regards to the Catalyst.  Organics and Synthetics after Synthesis do not exist anymore.  Only the hybrid of organic and synthetic.  There is no peace between them because they no longer exist in the galaxy.  That was my interpretation of that ending. 

[AlexMBrennan]

Personally, I - the player Alex - don't believe synthesis is possible. Which is the writers' fault. This is bad. But don't worry, I can see past that. Unfortunately, it gets worse.

mutual understanding by both synthetics and organics the path to the (GOOD) conclusion

That's an argument after the fact, and that's what's wrong with Synthesis. It doesn't logically follow from the description that synthesis is a viable solution to the Reaper threat.

Let me explain why an argument after the fact is bad: Suppose were to play the roulette - betting $1 on number 13, say. Is that a smart decision? Well, no - if you win you get $36, and nil otherwise. Afterwards, your expected winnings are (1/38x$36 +37/38x0)-1=-$0.05
That is to say, you're paying to much for that wager - you should only be prepared to pay $0.95 for a $1 wager at roulette. If you happened to win, it would remain a bad decision.

So you cannot use the utopian epilogue to justify Shepard's decision. Unfortunately, the ending doesn't work without the player knowing the outcome and making Shepard act OOC to get it. That is bad.

Now, for some detail:

mutual understanding by both synthetics and organics the path to the (GOOD) conclusion

That's one of those things that doesn't follow. Look the newspaper: you'll find that humans are perfectly happy to kill other humans - either because they have stuff the killer wants, or because of minor contrived differences (that's what religions were invented for). There is no reason to think that making everyone the same will solve anything.

There's no reason to think that it will solve the Singularity either, btw.

Finally, Godchild. The conversation with him fails for a simple reason - Shepard can at best report an anecdote, which won't convince him; on the other hand, Shepard has no reason for trusting Godchild, who is a Reaper and the enemy for all intents and purposes.

Unfortunately, this conversation is the first time we learn about the Singularity... so I can't really see Shepard caring too much about it...

[AngryFrozenWater]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

First we have the hypothetical synthetics threat. There is no evidence of such a threat. The only synthetics we have seen are in trouble because the reapers caused that trouble. That's true for the zha'til in Javik's cycle, true for the heretics and true for the geth at Rannoch. Then we have the quarians which caused the Morning War.

The only synthetics that we know of who turned against their creators were the reapers. The first "true" reaper turned against its creators without their approval. Then they systematically wiped out all civilizations every 50K years for aeons. That means that the only threat that comes close to the brat's description are the reapers themselves. It is interesting to note that the "ascension through destruction" method used is also the reproduction method of those very same reapers. Obviously the predators rather kept their cycles going then really do something about the "problem" they were supposed to fix. However, nobody asked them to "fix" that problem and they interfered without the consent in matters of those they were supposed to protect by exterminating them. In short they were violating the right of self-determination by the most horrific means imaginable. Their terror lasted for about 1 billion years.

If synthesis, which again is a violation of the right of self-determination, is to be a solution for that hypothetical threat then it makes no sense to join up with the brat and its boys and keep them alive, because, given the above, the brat and its boys are not the solution, they are the problem.

Which is why if you believe that or if your Shepard believes that, there are the Destroy, Control and Refusal options...

No. I consider refusal a delayed version of the three main ones, so I skip that one. Because of the hypothetical synthetics threat the three main options are solutions to a non-existent problem. But the game forces me to select one.

Balek-Vriege wrote...

The validity of the Catalyst's theory doesn't matter really, ...

Of course it matters. If the brat offers a solution then it better be a solution to an existent problem.

Where do get that idea from? It's already hard enough to have to listen to the brat who is interfering with matters that are none of its business. It has been violating the right of self-determination in the most horrific way imaginable for the last 1 billion years.

Balek-Vriege wrote...

... although it's harder to discount in the EC since it was a peace negotiator and make between Organics and Synthetics for who knows how long, before it became THE Reaper (not even the first since the Reapers themselves seem to be enslaved by the Catalyst like husks, making it the only true Reaper).

What the brat tells me is that it controls the reapers. You assume that the brat is the first "true" reaper? Maybe that explains why Harbinger flies away before you stumble on Marauder Shields, but it really has nothing to do with the validity of its "theory". Besides, the brat presents it as inevitable. So it must be more than a theory. The problem is that there is no proof.

Balek-Vriege wrote...

It has a lot more experience and knowledge concerning Synthetic/Oranic relations.

That does not impress me at all. So far it is doing a bad job. If its creators think that synthetics are that dangerous then why would they send a synthetic to negotiate with organics? They did. Needless to say that failed. So they created the first "true" reaper who used the infamous "ascension through destruction" method against its creators without their approval. As we know now, that wasn't a good idea either.

In the meantime the also tried some eugenics experiments themselves. Here and there a synthesis experiment. But those failed too, because "synthesis cannot... be forced".

Balek-Vriege wrote...

The fact is if there was anything out there that could have convinced the Catalyst in the Mass Effect universe that it was wrong, it would have happened in the 37+ million years of , peacebrokering, watching and then Reaping.

Whatever went wrong there, the solution was a cyclical maniacal genocidal "ascension through destruction" method that also happened to be the reapers' reproduction method. After about 1 billion years the brat finds out, after Shepard twists its arm with the Crucible, that it doesn't work. But don't worry, it has three new solutions for a none existent problem! Ghehe.

Balek-Vriege wrote...

What matters in the endings are the choices you make to a) Stop the Reapers and What type of life comes after whether you believe in its logic or not.

Obviously, your option a) is the one that really makes sense. And what type of life comes after it is irrelevant to the mission of Shepard. Shepard's mission is to either destroy or defeat the reapers.

The control option is no long term solution, because either undead reaper dictator Shepard loses his or her sanity or the reapers riot.

The destroy options looks like a sound option, because it permanently ends the only proven threat: the brat and the boys. But it also exterminates the geth. Another genocide.

The synthesis threat is certainly not an option. It leaves the reapers alive and there is a chance that the brat survives. Besides, it is a betrayal to Shepard's allies, because they wanted the destruction or defeat of the reapers and certainly not a submission to them.

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Also in Synthesis you don't join up with the Catalyst since its function becomes redundant, even though it may still exist as an entity (which or or may not have been effected by Synthesis).

I do not see the brat die in the cinematics and still the reapers appear to be controlled. If the brat dies who is controlling them? As far as we know only Shepard or the brat are able to do that. Now it happens to be that in the synthesis option also Shepard's "essence of who [he/she] is and what [he/she] is" is mixed with the Crucibles energy which infects all involved. That would mean that Shepard's mental capacities and/or viewpoints are used to rule the Disney-like utopian pipe dream by some kind of mind control. I cannot imagine that his or her physical properties are used to achieve "peace". It's not like the quarians are helped by growing Shepard-like 5 toes or the krogans lose their hump to match Shepard's good looks. Also, why would the synthetics be helped by Shepard's physiology that is based on DNA, when everyone is mutilated by "a new framework" anyway. But does that kind of mind control also work for reapers? For some reason, synthesis fans claim that there is no such mind control and synthesis is not utopia. Well, if it isn't utopia then it should act like one. Back to square one and the reapers appear to be uncontrolled. That's far too dangerous. BTW, if there is no mind control then Shepard's sacrifice meant nothing and it was just a simple assassination.

Balek-Vriege wrote...

The closest thing to joining the Catalyst is by replacing it in the Control ending

No, of course not. In the control ending the brat is dead and gone. I've already mentioned that ending.

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Again the ethical issue of choosing the fate of everyone remains, but self determination is arguably stronger than ever in the Synthesis ending (again Tuchanka Utopia and a Quarian/Geth Golden Age). It's just the Galaxy and life as we know ceases to be for better or worse. Judging by the endings clips it seems totally for the better.

I've already given my views about that utopia you have just portrayed. Nah. Synthesis is violating the right of self-determination by being invoked without the consent of anyone involved. It violates that right again by a possible mind control. If there is a chance that the brat survived synthesis, and mind you we do not see it die, then there is also a chance that Shepard betrays its allies to the brat and the boys in a way that would make Saren proud.

"I'm not doing this for myself. Don't you see, Sovereign will succeed. It is inevitable. My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed." - Saren Arterius.

And here's Saren's vision of a synthesis future which he calls the "evolution of all organic life".

"The relationship is symbiotic. Organic and machine intertwined, a union of flesh and steal. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. I am a vision of the future, Shepard. The evolution of all organic life. This is our destiny. Join Sovereign and experience a true rebirth!" - Saren Arterius.

No, thanks. I'll pass.

[Jadebaby]

alienatedflea wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Organic =/= Hybrid.

New species. Same works vice versa.

Explain.

In the same way Organics are not organics anymore but a hybrid of man and machine. Synthetics aren't actually synthetics anymore because they have acquired "data" through a cellular means.

[Rhayak]

Uhm duh i mean like totally the worst thing about that Seen-the-size ending is like, whatever, seriously? I mean, like, you get green computer nerd writings all over your skin and whoa i mean ew you're a total freak who's never gonna get into cheerleading.
I mean, like, whatever, The Hills, Jersey Shore are the best thing ever. Like, totally!

[AngryFrozenWater]

Romaka wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive.

If an organism is self-aware and capable of creative and independent thought then it doesn't matter whether this is achieved by a biochemical brain or a synthetic one. That means that for all intents and purposes synthetics are alive. And it also doesn't matter that they behave differently then you. Nor does the lack of any typical human traits means they are dead. Is a serial killer who lacks empathy dead?

What I mean is in relation to the story.  I believe they are alive but only that the game implies otherwise at that point in time to me.

Then you have played another game, because for the reasons given the geth and the zha'til were alive.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 13 juillet 2012 - 09:37 .

[KingZayd]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive.

If an organism is self-aware and capable of creative and independent thought then it doesn't matter whether this is achieved by a biochemical brain or a synthetic one. That means that for all intents and purposes synthetics are alive. And it also doesn't matter that they behave differently then you. Nor does the lack of any typical human traits means they are dead. Is a serial killer who lacks empathy dead?

What I mean is in relation to the story.  I believe they are alive but only that the game implies otherwise at that point in time to me.

Then you have played another game, because for the reasons given the geth and the zha'til were alive.

EDI starts her post-synthesis speech with "I am alive.", implying that she wasn't really pre-synthesis.

I don't know why she'd be more alive, but that seems to be what the game is suggesting.

Unless synthesis somehow brought Sovereign back in EDI's body  of course

Modifié par KingZayd, 13 juillet 2012 - 09:47 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

KingZayd wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive.

If an organism is self-aware and capable of creative and independent thought then it doesn't matter whether this is achieved by a biochemical brain or a synthetic one. That means that for all intents and purposes synthetics are alive. And it also doesn't matter that they behave differently then you. Nor does the lack of any typical human traits means they are dead. Is a serial killer who lacks empathy dead?

What I mean is in relation to the story.  I believe they are alive but only that the game implies otherwise at that point in time to me.

Then you have played another game, because for the reasons given the geth and the zha'til were alive.

EDI starts her post-synthesis speech with "I am alive.", implying that she wasn't really pre-synthesis.

I don't know why she'd be more alive, but that seems to be what the game is suggesting.

Unless synthesis somehow brought Sovereign back in EDI's body  of course

EDI may have felt truly alive, but that doesn't mean she was dead before that. Really, you are clutching at emergency induction ports (who said that again?).

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 13 juillet 2012 - 09:58 .

[nhsknudsen]

"We are the Borg Children of the Synthesis. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will
add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your
culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."

That is what is wrong with Synthesis.

[Baronesa]

/thread

The Stepford Galaxy

[Romaka]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Romaka wrote...

With synthetics I am given the impression that unless Synthesis occurs then synthetics cannot be classified as alive.

If an organism is self-aware and capable of creative and independent thought then it doesn't matter whether this is achieved by a biochemical brain or a synthetic one. That means that for all intents and purposes synthetics are alive. And it also doesn't matter that they behave differently then you. Nor does the lack of any typical human traits means they are dead. Is a serial killer who lacks empathy dead?

What I mean is in relation to the story.  I believe they are alive but only that the game implies otherwise at that point in time to me.

Then you have played another game, because for the reasons given the geth and the zha'til were alive.

What I meant is that I believe EDI and the geth were alive prior to Synthesis but with the statement EDI makes in the Synthesis ending of "I am alive" leads me to think that I am not supposed to believe they were alive prior to that point.  Which I do not agree with.

On a side note I thought it was that the Zha'Til were hybrids anyway.  Organics with AI implants or something.  Just that when the Reapers came the AI portion took control entirely over the body.

[nhsknudsen]

Romaka wrote...

On a side note I thought it was that the Zha'Til were hybrids anyway.  Organics with AI implants or something.  Just that when the Reapers came the AI portion took control entirely over the body.

The only thing I remember Javik saying in that conversation is that the technological implants took over by themselves, long before the Reapers arrived.

[Ridwan]

It's bad. You kill every intelligent being in the galaxy, to turn them into green mindless robo zombie drone freaks.

Modifié par M25105, 13 juillet 2012 - 11:53 .

[Romaka]

nhsknudsen wrote...

Romaka wrote...

On a side note I thought it was that the Zha'Til were hybrids anyway.  Organics with AI implants or something.  Just that when the Reapers came the AI portion took control entirely over the body.

The only thing I remember Javik saying in that conversation is that the technological implants took over by themselves, long before the Reapers arrived.

Possible.  Also possible that the Reaper Vanguard did it to weaken the galaxy prior to invasion but that is just wild "speculation".  Man I feel dirty just typing that word out nowadays.

[Nerevar-as]

nhsknudsen wrote...

Romaka wrote...

On a side note I thought it was that the Zha'Til were hybrids anyway.  Organics with AI implants or something.  Just that when the Reapers came the AI portion took control entirely over the body.

The only thing I remember Javik saying in that conversation is that the technological implants took over by themselves, long before the Reapers arrived.

I´d really like to know the logic for having self-aware implants. I almost facepalmed when I heard that.

[Dobiog101]

*Changed and moved*

Modifié par Dobiog101, 14 juillet 2012 - 11:56 .

[Xilizhra]

nhsknudsen wrote...

"We are the Borg Children of the Synthesis. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will
add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your
culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."

That is what is wrong with Synthesis.

And you say this as though there was any evidence of this happening ever.