825 réponses à ce sujet

[spockjedi]

HagarIshay wrote...
Fair enough. I guess can understand why you will find it upsetting. But do you find it offensive, as an insult to the fans? 

About changing the ending- I know you probably heard it enough times on this forums, but I think it's worth repeating. The game is theirs. As much as we would like to get everything we asked for, we can't. They created the game, and yes- it's their art. Will you demand from a writer to change his book?

What Hudson said is classic straw man, and this is more than enough to offend the fans. It's pretending we can't recognize a bad writing.
Also I never denied the game is theirs. This is another straw man. They should be thankful to the players because we gave them the chance to fix the endings. Instead, they hide behind words like "artistic vision", ignored the feedback, invented straw mans and made their horrible writing look like sacrosanct relic.

[Ageless Face]

tonnactus wrote...
www.youtube.com/watch

Casey Hudson:
"This is your story. Your adventure".

But the expectation of developers keeping their promises makes fans entitled i guess.

It is your story- as long as it goes with the game's story. Like the choices you made. You honetly don't think he meant that the game as a whole is actually YOURS? Otherwise, every little thing you didn't like should have been removed. Didn't like the story of Saren in ME1? He should have been removed and do someone else. Didn't like ME2's plot (I'm one of those)? Well, BioWare should have remade the whole game.

It is our story- to a certain extent. Changing the plot accroding to our choices ingame- sure. Remake the whole thing, pretend as if it never happened- no, unfourtenatly. The best we can do is critiseze on certain points and hope BioWare will take it into their next games

[Ageless Face]

nitefyre410 wrote...
Its not unprecendented  for that to happen.

  

I'm not asking wether it's possible or not. Sure it's possible. I'm asking, will you do it? Will you say to a writer "Your book sucks and I want you to write it over again"? 

HagarIshay wrote...
Deus Ex Machina happen all the time, more often than what a lot of fans may think - the trick is that most usually write in such a way were its not blatant and completely out of the blue. 
 
TTGL  is a series that completely deconstructs the Deus Ex Machina and then makes it work for its favor.

Then I guess te point of Dues Ex Machina is irrelevant? 

[tonnactus]

HagarIshay wrote...
 Didn't like ME2's plot (I'm one of those)? Well, BioWare should have remade the whole game.

But at least the decisions that the game allowed to make should have made an impact.
Actually games like the Witcher 2 and Fallout Vegas shows thats its possible to have multiple factions in the game to side with. Why not working with the shadow broker instead and not with cerberus?(shepard didnt have to die and there wouldnt be a need to revive him)

I absolutly hated the Thane recruitment mission because it was unbelievable dumb if Shepard did a job for Nassana Dantius in the first game. Why not just contact her? Try to fool her and kill her yourself,helping the assasin? Stopping the assassin and still concince him to work with you. Kill the assassin and have a wealthy supporter instead that even gives you an elite eclipse merc as an alternative.

Lets not start about the completly braindead council. Or killing the council only lead to an angry shopkeeper,thats it.

Mass Effect 2 shows exactly how they would treat players choice in future games. So Mass Effect 3 wasnt really a suprise for me in this regard.

Modifié par tonnactus, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:02 .

[Ageless Face]

Oransel wrote...
1. You have just told me that non-main plot related things do not matter. If people do not want to play side-missions, they should not, you said. Ok. Exploration is optional and if people haven't liked it, they shouldn't have played exploration part, while those who liked it, should had an ability to explore. This makes me believe that most of players either liked exploration or didn't bother. Yet, some fans disliked it and wanted it removed. Bioware took the easiest route to cut game. Exploration should have been included because if people truly hated Mako, they should not have played the part including it. Bioware taking the easiest and most stupid way to cut the game more is the problem for me.

2. Yes. We can conclude that ME3 main story is larger than ME1-2 main story, but ME1-2 are larger overall.

3. Because it's cheap. Non-imaginative, non-original, generic. Creates plotholes lore-wise (why there aren't any other traces of this weapon? Why is it on Mars of all places, not Eden Prime? Why was it found in last 5 minutes? How we haven't learnt anything about it from Vigil?). I think the problem I have with it is it's being generic like in B-class Hollywood blockbuster (in previously original games using imagination) and not being forshadowed at all in Mass Effect 1 and 2. Not to mention plotholes.

5. No, he was not forshadowed at all. 1 sentence in 80+ hour trilogy? Really? Why his existence goes against everything we have in game? Where would I begin?..
..maybe with dozens of plotholes he creates? Like why he couldn't open Citadel for the Reapers?
..maybe because there should not be any answers on questions you listed? That's right, Reapers should not be explained for many reasons.
..maybe because he makes the conflict of organics and synthetics as central out of nowhere? For note - this conflict has already been resolved.
..maybe because he is exactly as cheap, unoriginal and simply bad written? Like in the 9 years old fat nerd boy fanfiction?
..or maybe just because he is absolutely unneccessary?
Take any answer, you want, they all are right.

11. Other people have already answered that for you.

1. Honestly, I don't know how to answer this. Yes, you are right about "if people don't like it they shouldn't do it". But I, for one, didn't like the mako. However, I liked doing the sidequets. I think that if BioWare will do an Exploration DLC, it will be for the best. In my opinon, at least.

2. Fair enough.

3. I will agree about Vigil. All the rest however, the plans on Mars could have been only digged out because they were starting to get desperate. Digging out Mars wasn't probably so important. It was Liara who found it, so I'm gussing it was pretty hard to find. And unoriginal? Definitly. But like I said, you will hardly find original things this days. They might be colored in diferent colors, and may work with a different bottom, but originality is hard to find. Even the Mass relays is not original. Nevre saw anyone complains about that And I believe if BioWare wouldn't exactly color it like they did- a bit of hollywood style- the Crucible would have been fine.

5. Why the hr couldn't open the Citadel? Maybe because he couldn't. 
Maybe you didn't like the reapers having a purpose, but that is an opinion. I for one, liked it. Maybe the catalyst shouldn't have outright told you what the reapers were doing, so people who don't want it will keep the mystery of the reapers, I don't know.
The whole point of his argument is exactly for us to disagree. After Rannoch and everything, you won't honeslty believe BioWare wanted us to just take his word for it. That's why they added the destroy option.
That is my opinion alone, but I don't believe the catalyst is badly written as a whole. He was just executed very poorly.
Unnecessary? Then what was Harbinger was necessary for in ME2? What was Saren necessary for in ME1? They could have just made Shepard persue Sovy. Hell, what exactly is
necessary about this game? To everything BioWare made there can be something else to replace it.    

[Ageless Face]

spockjedi wrote...
What Hudson said is classic straw man, and this is more than enough to offend the fans. It's pretending we can't recognize a bad writing.
Also I never denied the game is theirs. This is another straw man. They should be thankful to the players because we gave them the chance to fix the endings. Instead, they hide behind words like "artistic vision", ignored the feedback, invented straw mans and made their horrible writing look like sacrosanct relic.

I don't think he meant to say we can't recodnize the bad writing. Also, I'm sure he didn't want to offend the writers themselves, especially in public so everyone will see.

And I'm sorry, I didn't try to straw man. Just wanted to answer something you pointed out.

[robertthebard]

spockjedi wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...
Fair enough. I guess can understand why you will find it upsetting. But do you find it offensive, as an insult to the fans? 

About changing the ending- I know you probably heard it enough times on this forums, but I think it's worth repeating. The game is theirs. As much as we would like to get everything we asked for, we can't. They created the game, and yes- it's their art. Will you demand from a writer to change his book?

What Hudson said is classic straw man, and this is more than enough to offend the fans. It's pretending we can't recognize a bad writing.
Also I never denied the game is theirs. This is another straw man. They should be thankful to the players because we gave them the chance to fix the endings. Instead, they hide behind words like "artistic vision", ignored the feedback, invented straw mans and made their horrible writing look like sacrosanct relic.

So, just what exactly was it you planned to do if they had said "This is the game as written, sorry you didn't like it, but we're not changing it."?  Take your ball and go home?  I'm serious.  Do you really believe that if they had decided against EC there was anything you could do to them? 

[Ageless Face]

tonnactus wrote...
But at least the decisions that the game allowed to make should have made an impact.
Actually games like the Witcher 2 and Fallout Vegas shows thats its possible to have multiple factions in the game to side with. Why not working with the shadow broker instead and not with cerberus?(shepard didnt have to die and there wouldnt be a need to revive him)

I absolutly hated the Thane recruitment mission because it was unbelievable dumb if Shepard did a job for Nassana Dantius in the first game. Why not just contact her? Try to fool her and kill her yourself,helping the assasin? Stopping the assassin and still concince him to work with you. Kill the assassin and have a wealthy supporter instead that even gives you an elite eclipse merc as an alternative.

Lets not start about the completly braindead council. Or killing the council only lead to an angry shopkeeper,thats it.

Mass Effect 2 shows exactly how they would treat players choice in future games. So Mass Effect 3 wasnt really a suprise for me in this regard.

Well, I disliked ME2's plot for other things (esspically how small importance the reapers had in it), but I think you get my meaning.

But anyway, as much as there are idiotic things in the plot, that, I would personally would have liked to be changed in my way, it's not gonna happen. And I don't see the difference between ME2's plot and the ending (on this specific point ). We, the fans, can ask to add, expand, even them to do something on future games. But Remake something entirely? Highly implausible. Should we ask them to? In my opinion, no.

[Oransel]

HagarIshay wrote...

1. Honestly, I don't know how to answer this. Yes, you are right about "if people don't like it they shouldn't do it". But I, for one, didn't like the mako. However, I liked doing the sidequets. I think that if BioWare will do an Exploration DLC, it will be for the best. In my opinon, at least.

2. Fair enough.

3. I will agree about Vigil. All the rest however, the plans on Mars could have been only digged out because they were starting to get desperate. Digging out Mars wasn't probably so important. It was Liara who found it, so I'm gussing it was pretty hard to find. And unoriginal? Definitly. But like I said, you will hardly find original things this days. They might be colored in diferent colors, and may work with a different bottom, but originality is hard to find. Even the Mass relays is not original. Nevre saw anyone complains about that And I believe if BioWare wouldn't exactly color it like they did- a bit of hollywood style- the Crucible would have been fine.

5. Why the hr couldn't open the Citadel? Maybe because he couldn't. 
Maybe you didn't like the reapers having a purpose, but that is an opinion. I for one, liked it. Maybe the catalyst shouldn't have outright told you what the reapers were doing, so people who don't want it will keep the mystery of the reapers, I don't know.
The whole point of his argument is exactly for us to disagree. After Rannoch and everything, you won't honeslty believe BioWare wanted us to just take his word for it. That's why they added the destroy option.
That is my opinion alone, but I don't believe the catalyst is badly written as a whole. He was just executed very poorly.
Unnecessary? Then what was Harbinger was necessary for in ME2? What was Saren necessary for in ME1? They could have just made Shepard persue Sovy. Hell, what exactly is
necessary about this game? To everything BioWare made there can be something else to replace it.    

1. Right now, yes, that would be best. Past is past.

3. Crucible plans on Mars? Well, protheans had not made crucible plans as widespread as possible so next cycle would know about it (unlike Liara's capsule). So, why of all places it was Mars, uninteresting little scientific station? The answer: because developers wanted you to visit Mars after the Earth. No lore-wise explanation or logic.
I have not bolded Crucible as intolerable. I can live with it and play ME3, but it is a big dissapointment overall as it could have been done much much better. Fans have proposed some really interesting alternatives for the Crucible. Yet, Bioware went that way and did it bad. Whatever.

5. Everything about the Catalyst is wrong, non- ME related, unimaginative and badly written. That is my opinion (most of the players think so too). Him being Deus Ex Machina is a fact, on the other hand. For me he is horrible Deus Ex Machina.

[SNascimento]

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

[revo76]

SNascimento wrote...

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

When GTA V, Assassins Creed III, new Gears of War title and Last of Us around ?

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot. 

[Dendio1]

revo76 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

When GTA V, Assassins Creed III, new Gears of War title and Last of Us around ?

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot. 

All that crap has either been fixed or is irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthy imo and I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough. I'm also still enjoying multiplayer immensely and appreciate the unprecidented amounts of free dlc.

Remember all those pictures people posted of the immense joy they had while playing the game up until the incomplete endings? Well now the endings are complete and all the nitpicking on other smaller insignificant issues can go kick rocks as far as im concerned.

Modifié par Dendio1, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:51 .

[nitefyre410]

HagarIshay wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
Its not unprecendented  for that to happen.

  

I'm not asking wether it's possible or not. Sure it's possible. I'm asking, will you do it? Will you say to a writer "Your book sucks and I want you to write it over again"? 

HagarIshay wrote...
Deus Ex Machina happen all the time, more often than what a lot of fans may think - the trick is that most usually write in such a way were its not blatant and completely out of the blue. 
 
TTGL  is a series that completely deconstructs the Deus Ex Machina and then makes it work for its favor.

Then I guess te point of Dues Ex Machina is irrelevant? 

 

To answer you first question, honestly it depends... if its a universe that the writer created and its just bad then I more likely just to  ignore it.. .I.E Twilight.  If its long running  Universe with an established canon that I have been a fan for years something like  Star Wars, Gundum or Macross then best believe I am going to be among voices that yelling at the top of  my lungs to get some changes made. Those Universe's have excisted for 30 plus years because of the fans keeping them alive.    

What I think stung most with Mass Effect at least with me is the it had the potential to be something that long standing in video games and that influental as well. Another think that hurt was that it was just lazy, I can do deal with bad even when you bad at something you still put forth a great effort.  ME 3 the writing is just lazy  and lack any creativity - there are a millions ways the could resolved everything and still worked in the themes they wanted but there no care put in to it.  The game comes off to me like Bioware saying.." We are tired of this here."  that feeling that I got from  ME 3 
 

Yes and no  DEM is not something you want to do, you always want to the ground work  laid through the course of the plot for the resolution of central conflict at most you just  want sprinkle some on top. Its like suger in cake .. too much and to cake is too sweet, not enough and its bitter but hit the right spot and the cake is perfect.  At most you , if you have to use DEM you want it to be like icing  and nothing can ruin a good cake like icing that is too sweet and laid on too thick. 

[nitefyre410]

Dendio1 wrote...

revo76 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

When GTA V, Assassins Creed III, new Gears of War title and Last of Us around ?

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot. 

All that crap has either been fixed or its irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthy imo

 

LMAO  AC 3 and Last of  Us  irrelivant... I'm sorry but  gooby pls 

[Sh0dan]

ME3 was the best game of the series, at least by the actual gameplay. The combat felt smooth, especially in comparison to the clunky ME1, and the skillsystem gave you a lot of different effects to experiment on. Grenades eradicated the static cover-shooting gameplay from ME2. The player was finally forced to move his ass. Vastly different types of enemies, weapon modding and a new active gameplay, so what did they miss?

In mass effect 2 I really enjoyed the loyalty-sidequests beyond "shoot 50 Blue-Suns, then complete your mission!". The Morinth/Samara quest on Omega was amazing - no shooting, just talking. It was a welcome change of pace.

The series has many lines of brilliant written, often self-ironic dialogue. Except - sadly - Mass Effect 3. My Shepard was limited to boring one-liners "Reaper bastards!" (eh) and her final speech was rather disappointing. Obviously words haven't been the strength of Mass Effect 3's plot, so what was it? The emotional pictures and cinematics on Tuchanka, Rannoch and Thessia.


ME3's story went straight straight to your heart.

Modifié par Sh0dan, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:55 .

[Dendio1]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

revo76 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

When GTA V, Assassins Creed III, new Gears of War title and Last of Us around ?

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot. 

All that crap has either been fixed or its irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthy imo

 

LMAO  AC 3 and Last of  Us  irrelivant... I'm sorry but  gooby pls 

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot.

Irrelivant or fixed

All that crap has either been fixed or is irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthyimo and I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough. I'm also still enjoying multiplayer immensely and appreciate the unprecidented amounts of free dlc.

Remember all those pictures people posted of the immense joythey had while playing the game up until the incomplete endings? Well now the endings are complete and all the nitpicking on other smaller insignificant issues can go kick rocks as far as im concerned

Opinions:devil:

Modifié par Dendio1, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:56 .

[Dendio1]

It feels wrong to even have this thread title floating about. People just come here to complain and put the game down.

[revo76]

Sure, they fixed teleporting squad mates plotholes by putting Normandy in front of Harbinger, oh and the Synthesis, they turned EDI to human (even it's not possible by current physical limitations and rules)

Did they fix Shepard's run animation too ? I didnt notice it

And what happened to Human Reaper ? to dark energy discussions in ME2 ? Did they fix them in ME3 ?

If crap is exist, this means it's a crap. You can polish or put some chocolate sauce on it, but it remains as crap. All of these were exist in ME3, they indeed fixed some of them but others remain.

You can enjoy with ME3, or hate it, and since this is a thread and this is a forum, i expressed my thoughts.

[wafflez]

Overall it's a decent enough game but compared to some other games bioware have put out in the past, it's pretty awful.

[3DandBeyond]

Dendio1 wrote...

It feels wrong to even have this thread title floating about. People just come here to complain and put the game down.

Well actually some haven't.

However, since when is it wrong to attempt to tell a company how you feel about their product.  We all spent a lot of time focusing on the ending, because this was a Mass Effect game, and fans have gotten used to accepting small goofs and flaws because what was good was sooooo good.  You may forgive it when your lover tends to burp out loud a bit, but when s/he continually likes to fart a lot and loudly in public you may have something to say.

What happened with ME3 is the ending became the focus and then the EC came out and some liked it, but others that considered they were looking at it more deeply in the context of the rest of the game(s), were reminded of other areas that were not so good in ME3 itself.

Now the other games don't get the same kind of criticism generally because their endings were done pretty well IMO.  Good endings can cover up a lot of sins within a plot.  No one ever says that a story was pretty bad, but since it began well then that's ok.  But people will say the story was pretty bad but it ended well so that's ok.

The game is flawed, really seriously flawed.  The story is kind of bad in a lot of places and just not there in others.  Some stories are the best I've ever seen in books and in games.  But the game needed an awesome ending to overcome what was not good.

If ever a company fails to do what you think they should have done, you need to speak up or not be offended if others do.  The goal of the consumer is to hope the next product a company releases is better than the last and to work to make sure the next product is not worse than the last released.  If you like ME and want another game and want it to be of good quality, then don't be upset when others express what was wrong with any of the games.  It may actually help.

[The Spamming Troll]

Dendio1 wrote...

It feels wrong to even have this thread title floating about. People just come here to complain and put the game down.

with all those complaints youve seen, it doesnt make sense to you someone would think ME3 is a bad game?

[The Spamming Troll]

Dendio1 wrote...

revo76 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

When GTA V, Assassins Creed III, new Gears of War title and Last of Us around ?

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot. 

All that crap has either been fixed or is irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthy imo and I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough. I'm also still enjoying multiplayer immensely and appreciate the unprecidented amounts of free dlc.

Remember all those pictures people posted of the immense joy they had while playing the game up until the incomplete endings? Well now the endings are complete and all the nitpicking on other smaller insignificant issues can go kick rocks as far as im concerned.

not really.

youve just accepted poor quality.

others havent.

[squee365]

Rubios wrote...

revo76 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

When GTA V, Assassins Creed III, new Gears of War title and Last of Us around ?

Ass Creed 3 will be another mediocre game like previous ones (the first one was OK) and even more boring because jumping between stupid trees instead of impressive models of old european cities is just retarded.

GTA is **** storywise, and as far as gameplay goes the Saints Row series is a vastly superior fun sandbox.
Plus they hold the honor of making the worst port in the history of games (GTA4 a.k.a why can't I hold all these quadcores).

If The Last of Us meets the high standards Naughty Dog showed through this gen it will indeed be a strong GOTY candidate, but since it is developed by a new studio that remains to be seen.

Gears of War... gooby pls... Angry Birds GOTYAY.

I'm not saying ME3 will be GOTY, but right now it is (atleast for me).

Hate to break it to you, GTAV and The Last of Us Are 2013 games.