825 réponses à ce sujet

[spockjedi]

HagarIshay wrote...
I don't think he meant to say we can't recodnize the bad writing. Also, I'm sure he didn't want to offend the writers themselves, especially in public so everyone will see.

And I'm sorry, I didn't try to straw man. Just wanted to answer something you pointed out.

By pretending the outrage was a result of the "lack of closure" and not of the bad wrting he already did that.
Ok, I believe you didn't try to straw man.

robertthebard wrote...
So, just what exactly was it you
planned to do if they had said "This is the game as written, sorry you
didn't like it, but we're not changing it."?  Take your ball and go
home?  I'm serious.

When did I said I would something to them?
I'm not demanding a new ending ("give a new ending otherwise you'll suffer"), I'm just saying IF they made a totally new ending, the fans would forgive them for the bad ending and continue supporting Mass Effect. That's what I said about "giving the chance to fix the ending".

robertthebard wrote...
Do you really believe that if they had decided
against EC there was anything you could do to them?

Since you're asking, fans already did something against Bioware because of the endings. Maybe the EC was a way to respond to this complaint. Who knows?

[3DandBeyond]

Dendio1 wrote...

Irrelivant or fixed

All that crap has either been fixed or is irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthyimo and I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough. I'm also still enjoying multiplayer immensely and appreciate the unprecidented amounts of free dlc.

Remember all those pictures people posted of the immense joythey had while playing the game up until the incomplete endings? Well now the endings are complete and all the nitpicking on other smaller insignificant issues can go kick rocks as far as im concerned

Opinions:devil:

No the EC didn't fix the endings it merely solidified them.  It added pictures and cool talking that only affirms what they already were, abominations, antithetical to the "human" spirit or heart.  It's not nit-picking to point out plotholes that still exist.  The star kid contradicts himself, the prior 2.99 games and then offers up horrid reasoning to excuse what's been done.  And people happily may now say it sounds so cool to be reaper god Shepard who cares what happened in the story before this and how Shepard would never choose that-it looks and sounds cool.  Or, wow I can have Shepard force people to be something against their will and wishes-so what, green eyes for all.  Or great, destroy the reapers and who the hell cares about EDI and the geth, they aren't people anyway?  Oh and who the hell cares about Shepard-lay there in that rubble you stupid torso.

That's not nitpicking.  The ending came from other stories and was wedged into this one-that's why it doesn't fit and if you look at it beyond the superficial "it looks cool" attitude you can easily see what's wrong.  Don't just compare it to the original endings (a flying magic blue dragon would be better than that), compare it to all of the story that came before through ME3 itself.  There's no real logic to it, it's dystopian, demoralizing, and fatalistic.  It doesn't work as the ending of a great action game certainly and it doesn't work as the ending of a great story.  And as well, ME3 itself frequently ignores plot lines established in 1 and 2.  That's not nitpicking.

As far as bugs-play any MP at all.  That is all too often a major bugfest.  In the SP, framerate drops, twisting heads, and a lot of other stuff (misplaced "off" dialogue) do still exist.  That would all be ok, if the ending delivered.  It doesn't.

[Galbrant]

Dendio1 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

revo76 wrote...

SNascimento wrote...

ME3 is a superb, goty worth game.

When GTA V, Assassins Creed III, new Gears of War title and Last of Us around ?

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot. 

All that crap has either been fixed or its irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthy imo

 

LMAO  AC 3 and Last of  Us  irrelivant... I'm sorry but  gooby pls 

Sorry, no chance, not with these endings and failed fix attempts, bugs, face import problem, plotholes and second class plot.

Irrelivant or fixed

All that crap has either been fixed or is irrelivant. ME3 is goty worthyimo and I thoroughly enjoyed my playthrough. I'm also still enjoying multiplayer immensely and appreciate the unprecidented amounts of free dlc.

Remember all those pictures people posted of the immense joythey had while playing the game up until the incomplete endings? Well now the endings are complete and all the nitpicking on other smaller insignificant issues can go kick rocks as far as im concerned

Opinions:devil:

I disagree,  A lot of the problems with Mass Effect 3 is still there,  and they are not  irrelevant. 

• The stiff and choppy animations, no film grain.
• The Journal system is garbage providing no updates or giving proper directions.
• The Crucible plot line, which was there since Mars,  So we're building something, but we don't find out what it does in the last ten minutes of the game?
• Boring and uninspire Fetch quests, they provided little to no story.
• The dialog choices in this installment was short and butchered.
• The planet scanning minigame is laughably simplistic, and the Reapers are virtually an non issue since you can just leave the zone and come back in.
• Mass Effect 1 face import is still a problem.
• Limited side quests I remember going to ton of areas in the first two games, in this one not so much.
• The War Assets are a joke we do not see most of them in action and no matter how low they are you will always make it to the Citadel and defeat the Reapers, unless you're a dumb ass like me and chose Refused.
• The new evacuation scene at the beam rush is touching, but why didn't Harbringer shoot the Normandy while its Hangar is open? It would kill Shepard and a hell of a lot of people running to the Citadel. And why didn't Normandy pot shot Harbringer on its way down? One well place shot with the Thanix Cannon would make the Hammer team much more easier. Not to mention forcing EDI to leave was retarded since she can repair herself and even if she loses the unit she is still on the Normandy.  Bioware did not think this scene through. 
• The Catalyst logic is still a broken mess.
• The  three endings choices are still ridiculous and spit on the themes of Mass Effect, but now they are actually endings. And the refusal ending is just there to spite the fans who question their artistic integrity.

Mass Effect 3 is unworthy of receiving a Game of the Year reward. Its still a good game, but no where near the best game of this cycle.

[marcustheMezz]

 I hated that kid even before I knew about starbrat, I mean really, for my Renegade d*ck shep, that betrays allies and kills friends, has nightmares about this one friggin kid that died? A kid that he didn't even know? Bioware, what the hell happened?

[3DandBeyond]

marcustheMezz wrote...

 I hated that kid even before I knew about starbrat, I mean really, for my Renegade d*ck shep, that betrays allies and kills friends, has nightmares about this one friggin kid that died? A kid that he didn't even know? Bioware, what the hell happened?

I hated the kid with a paragon Shepard.  The kid dies and it hits Shepard hard.  Shepard shoots Anderson and just shakes his/her head.  The drama!

The kid added nothing to the game and whether in the flesh or glowing, he takes so much away from it.

[elitecom]

marcustheMezz wrote...

 I hated that kid even before I knew about starbrat, I mean really, for my Renegade d*ck shep, that betrays allies and kills friends, has nightmares about this one friggin kid that died? A kid that he didn't even know? Bioware, what the hell happened?

Beats me too, I've no idea where Bioware tried to go with that kid but whatever Bioware went for it didn't work. The dream sequences just ended up being annoying and the same with that kid. Then when the kid comes back in the form as the Catalyst and starts to boss Shepard around, that's just.... well talk about pouring salt in the wound.

[NedPepper]

Steelcan wrote...

Bad Game? NO. Worthy successor to ME 2, also NO. Its a fine game that is disappointing in some areas, but overall it is a good game, not great, but good. Has a good plot (minus the deus ex machinas Crucible and Starbrat), Extended cut adds additional closure, better gunplay and gameplay, several good story arcs, and you can kill Udina
All that said there were things wrong with the game, too few actual side missions, and a lack of impact on certain choices carried over from the other games, but all in all not a bad game just not as good as it should have been

People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.

This make me think of how Peter Benchley was furious at Spielberg at the end of Jaws.  The whole shooting the canister with a rifle and the shark exploding made no sense to Benchley.  It was a Deux Ex, illogical ending.  Spielberg's response:  "It's a story.  You sometimes exaggerate.  And guess what?  The people bought it.  They wanted to see this shark get blown to hell.  Part of the magic of stories is bending the rules."  I'm paraphrasing here, but that was the gist of what Spielberg was saying.  And guess what.  The scene is a classic film scene.  And don't even get me started on hitchcock and any action film made in the last twenty years.

The deus ex machina is only frowned upon because it's abused.  It's a literary device.  But Hollywood has used it in classIC films for years...and you probably like those movies.  It's used in genre ficiton all the damn time.

The difference here is that you LIKE the deus ex machina in Mass Effect 1, 2, Jaws, and so on.  You just don't like the Star Child.  It's not the deus ex machina you have a problem with.  If you did, you'd probably hate every Bioware game ever made.  But you don't.  Mass Effect  1 is "brilliant!" 

It's fine to have an opinion. But it's entirely possible to point out the faulty logic in how some of you are forming your opinion. 

Granted, you'll keep using it anyway, but at least some people will know that the argument is completely contradictory.

[Oransel]

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

[Oransel]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

not really.

youve just accepted poor quality.

others havent.

This is the best thing said. I have not accepted poor quality.

[squee365]

Oransel wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

not really.

youve just accepted poor quality.

others havent.

This is the best thing said. I have not accepted poor quality.

Quality is subjective. 

[NedPepper]

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

 

I know exactly what it means.  I'm thinking you do not.  It's the God in the Machine.  A plot device that quickly and often illogicially solves an issue in a story, often times used to end a story when the writer has backed himself into a corner.  I'm thinking you have no idea what a deus ex machina is.  Watch the film Adaptation.  It's used on purpose and will give you an example.  Or read Lord of the Rings.  How do you kill an all powerful evil that is destroying the world. The one ring being dropped into the fires of Mordor.  Deus Ex.

[revo76]

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....
.

Stopped reading after this.  You are using Mass Relays in Mass Effect games, what's the wrong part about it ? So, according to this, Mass Effect is a Deus Ex rip-off already ? I dont think so. First and second games are excellent. Final of ME2 was awesome, epic with OST. 

In ME3, i only heard some piano and snooty kid  -i wanted to blow his miserable *** in Vancouver- in the end (That was Catalyst)

It's not teleport, it's Mass Relay tech. I dont know what game you have but, in my ME1 play thorough, there's a cutscene between Conduit jump and Arrive sequences. Enough time for Relay travel. 

[Oransel]

squee365 wrote...

Quality is subjective. 

True, but that's why there is such term as "good taste".

[NedPepper]

Oransel wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

not really.

youve just accepted poor quality.

others havent.

This is the best thing said. I have not accepted poor quality.

I feel sorry for you.  I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish, but I doubt it's working. 

[squee365]

Oransel wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Quality is subjective. 

True, but that's why there is such term as "good taste".

Because elitists needed an ego boost. 

[Oransel]

nedpepper wrote...

I know exactly what it means.

No, you do not. You fail to make difference between usual plot device, asspull and DEM. All of the examples you have listed are coming into first 2 categories. DEM comes into play only when applied to the ending of story.

So tired of arguing with uneducated people...

[NedPepper]

revo76 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....
.

Stopped reading after this.  You are using Mass Relays in Mass Effect games, what's the wrong part about it ? So, according to this, Mass Effect is a Deus Ex rip-off already ? I dont think so. First and second games are excellent. Final of ME2 was awesome, epic with OST. 

In ME3, i only heard some piano and snooty kid  -i wanted to blow his miserable *** in Vancouver- in the end (That was Catalyst)

It's not teleport, it's Mass Relay tech. I dont know what game you have but, in my ME1 play thorough, there's a cutscene between Conduit jump and Arrive sequences. Enough time for Relay travel. 

......

The Conduit is STILL a deus ex machina plot device.  You know what, forget it.  I'm wasting my time.

[Oransel]

nedpepper wrote...
The Conduit is STILL a deus ex machina plot device.  You know what, forget it.  I'm wasting my time.

No, it is regular plot device and nothing is wrong with it. Yes, you are wasting your time, you should google the literature terms before going into discussion.

[NedPepper]

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

I know exactly what it means.

No, you do not. You fail to make difference between usual plot device, asspull and DEM. All of the examples you have listed are coming into first 2 categories. DEM comes into play only when applied to the ending of story.

So tired of arguing with uneducated people...

.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

[NedPepper]

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
The Conduit is STILL a deus ex machina plot device.  You know what, forget it.  I'm wasting my time.

No, it is regular plot device and nothing is wrong with it. Yes, you are wasting your time, you should google the literature terms before going into discussion.

Oh my God!  So to suit your argument, you're going to redefine a literary term and deflect the argument by saying I don't know what I'm talking about? Total BS.  The Conduit is absolutely an example of a Deus Ex Machina.  It's just done, perhaps, better than the Starkid.  You liked it.  That's the biggest difference. 

But, dude, I am done.  You have fun doing...whatever this is. 

[AlanC9]

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:45 .

[Oransel]

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

I know exactly what it means.

No, you do not. You fail to make difference between usual plot device, asspull and DEM. All of the examples you have listed are coming into first 2 categories. DEM comes into play only when applied to the ending of story.

So tired of arguing with uneducated people...

.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Asspull is slang name for plot device which serves the same role as DEM, but comes in the middle of the story/trilogy. ME example: Crucible.

[squee365]

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

I know exactly what it means.

No, you do not. You fail to make difference between usual plot device, asspull and DEM. All of the examples you have listed are coming into first 2 categories. DEM comes into play only when applied to the ending of story.

So tired of arguing with uneducated people...

.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Asspull is slang name for plot device which serves the same role as DEM, but comes in the middle of the story/trilogy. ME example: Crucible.

I thought the crucible was a MacGuffin.

[Oransel]

squee365 wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

I know exactly what it means.

No, you do not. You fail to make difference between usual plot device, asspull and DEM. All of the examples you have listed are coming into first 2 categories. DEM comes into play only when applied to the ending of story.

So tired of arguing with uneducated people...

.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Asspull is slang name for plot device which serves the same role as DEM, but comes in the middle of the story/trilogy. ME example: Crucible.

I thought the crucible was a MacGuffin.

No, unfortunately it was not. Conduit and Collectors Base were the MacGuffins, Crucible wasn't.