825 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

squee365 wrote...

I thought the crucible was a MacGuffin.

Not really, since what the Crucible does turns out to be really important. It would be a MacGuffin if Refuse didn't result in a total disaster.

I don't think the Conduit counts either, since it does resolve the action of ME1. The Collector Base counts, since it doesn't end up mattering.

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:56 .

[AtreiyaN7]

No, it's a good game. So hey, I can put out my own opinion as fact too! The mechanics may have changed, but as a whole, the emotional storytelling is probably the best of the series (and no, I'm not counting the ending - speaking of which, if you're still wanking about it at this point...do start trying to move on with your life).

[squee365]

You're allowed to love it, you're allowed to hate it. Just don't jump down someone else's throat and dehumanize them for liking and eating up "s***."

[nitefyre410]

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

 

No, but they do list it as a Diabolus Ex Machina which by the way is worst.

[squee365]

nitefyre410 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

 

No, but they do list it as a Diabolus Ex Machina which by the way is worst.

..No they list Harbinger's beam as that. Jeez guys. Are you just intentionally ignoring details to get people upset or are you just not paying that much attention?

[robertthebard]

squee365 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

 

No, but they do list it as a Diabolus Ex Machina which by the way is worst.

..No they list Harbinger's beam as that. Jeez guys. Are you just intentionally ignoring details to get people upset or are you just not paying that much attention?

It's called Selective Amnesia.  Anything that doesn't support what is intended to be said is conveniently forgotten.

[Oransel]

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

There is 

[squee365]

Oransel wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

There is 

You just added that now yourself? You should be proud that almost no one cares.

[nitefyre410]

squee365 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

 

No, but they do list it as a Diabolus Ex Machina which by the way is worst.

..No they list Harbinger's beam as that. Jeez guys. Are you just intentionally ignoring details to get people upset or are you just not paying that much attention?

 

1.  I don't intentional  ingore details..

2.  I did not highlight the spoiler.  

3. Which leads to I did not see that Harbinger was listed as that. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 14 juillet 2012 - 08:16 .

[nitefyre410]

squee365 wrote...

You're allowed to love it, you're allowed to hate it. Just don't jump down someone else's throat and dehumanize them for liking and eating up "s***."

 

Dehumanize has what are you  talking?  no one has dehumanized anyone. 

Oh lawrd... the drama here. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 14 juillet 2012 - 08:17 .

[MystEU]

It's ok to dislike the game. So long as people don't do it in such a manner that bashes or condescends people who do. This post hasn't really gone that way, so more power to you for not liking it. I enjoyed ME3 with the EC, and so long as I'm happy, all is well for me.

[squee365]

MystEU wrote...

It's ok to dislike the game. So long as people don't do it in such a manner that bashes or condescends people who do. This post hasn't really gone that way, so more power to you for not liking it. I enjoyed ME3 with the EC, and so long as I'm happy, all is well for me.

Thats what I meant. 

[Oransel]

squee365 wrote...

You just added that now yourself? You should be proud that almost no one cares.

I just restored the part which was erased by some fanboy.

[robertthebard]

spockjedi wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...
I don't think he meant to say we can't recodnize the bad writing. Also, I'm sure he didn't want to offend the writers themselves, especially in public so everyone will see.

And I'm sorry, I didn't try to straw man. Just wanted to answer something you pointed out.

By pretending the outrage was a result of the "lack of closure" and not of the bad wrting he already did that.
Ok, I believe you didn't try to straw man.

robertthebard wrote...
So, just what exactly was it you
planned to do if they had said "This is the game as written, sorry you
didn't like it, but we're not changing it."?  Take your ball and go
home?  I'm serious.

When did I said I would something to them?
I'm not demanding a new ending ("give a new ending otherwise you'll suffer"), I'm just saying IF they made a totally new ending, the fans would forgive them for the bad ending and continue supporting Mass Effect. That's what I said about "giving the chance to fix the ending".

robertthebard wrote...
Do you really believe that if they had decided
against EC there was anything you could do to them?

Since you're asking, fans already did something against Bioware because of the endings. Maybe the EC was a way to respond to this complaint. Who knows?

In answer to your first question, since you snipped your quote out of my reply:  What I replied to

After reading this post, I went back through my email inbox, so I could find the letter I got from the BBB concerning what they can and can't do about game companies/publishers from when I filed against Atari concerning their DRM preventing paying customers from playing the game.  Unfortunately, I seem to have finally trashed it, since it, in essence said "There's nothing we can do about it, have a nice day".  So how did his lawsuit pan out?  Is he hiding in embarrassment because he lost before he ever really got to court?  While I'm not a pro-ender, the term was coined here for people that didn't mind the ending, and the courts are most likely to say "Well, it seems that while there is indeed some outrage, but, you can't sue somebody because you didn't like the end of a game.  If we set a precedent that says you can, pretty soon we'll have to set one that says you can sue because you didn't like the ending of a movie, or a book".  Only they'll use a lot more words to convey it.  If they can't take action against Atari for a game being completely unplayable due to DRM, what action do you think they can take because somebody is unhappy about an ending?  This despite the fact that we do have laws about a product being in a useable state when you buy it new.

I could actually play that game, but it did mess up licenses I had on my PC in completely unrelated areas, and my attorney advised me that I didn't have any recourse, other than uninstalling and reformatting my HD to get their crap off my machine.  I just hope the guy's attorney was one of those "We don't get paid unless you win" ambulance chaser types, otherwise he spent a lot of money to lose.

Edit to fix link, I hope...

Modifié par robertthebard, 14 juillet 2012 - 08:20 .

[squee365]

Oransel wrote...

squee365 wrote...

You just added that now yourself? You should be proud that almost no one cares.

I just restored the part which was erased by some fanboy.

Well you could've at least made it sound unbiased. 

[robertthebard]

squee365 wrote...

Oransel wrote...

squee365 wrote...

You just added that now yourself? You should be proud that almost no one cares.

I just restored the part which was erased by some fanboy.

Well you could've at least made it sound unbiased. 

That would have defeated the whole purpose of adding it in the first place, wouldn't it?

[NedPepper]

AlanC9 wrote...

squee365 wrote...

I thought the crucible was a MacGuffin.

Not really, since what the Crucible does turns out to be really important. It would be a MacGuffin if Refuse didn't result in a total disaster.

I don't think the Conduit counts either, since it does resolve the action of ME1. The Collector Base counts, since it doesn't end up mattering.

Yeah, the Collectors Base is a MacGuffin.  The MacGuffin is usually ultimately pointless to the plot.  It's there to push the plot forward, but is ultimately not the center of the piece. You could probably make an argument about the Collector base, and the Collectors in general, but really they're just there to give Shepard something to fight between One and Two and ultimately, as shown in 3...they're not important at all.  The Maltese Falcon, the actual falcon, is a MacGuffin.  George Lucas even called R2D2 the ultimate MacGuffin.  The "rosebud" mystery in Citizen Kane is also a MacGuffin.  The Conduit is not a MacGuffin.  It's acts as a godlike exposition provider and deposits Shepard right into the ending of the game.  (It's a Deus Ex.)

[Kamfrenchie]

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

 

I know exactly what it means.  I'm thinking you do not.  It's the God in the Machine.  A plot device that quickly and often illogicially solves an issue in a story, often times used to end a story when the writer has backed himself into a corner.  I'm thinking you have no idea what a deus ex machina is.  Watch the film Adaptation.  It's used on purpose and will give you an example.  Or read Lord of the Rings.  How do you kill an all powerful evil that is destroying the world. The one ring being dropped into the fires of Mordor.  Deus Ex.

The ring in LOTR isn't a DEM. At all.
How ca you even dare o compre it to the rucible and star kid ?

And also, o whoever said otherwise mass effect 3 is isted as an example of ass pull on Tvtropes

[squee365]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

 

I know exactly what it means.  I'm thinking you do not.  It's the God in the Machine.  A plot device that quickly and often illogicially solves an issue in a story, often times used to end a story when the writer has backed himself into a corner.  I'm thinking you have no idea what a deus ex machina is.  Watch the film Adaptation.  It's used on purpose and will give you an example.  Or read Lord of the Rings.  How do you kill an all powerful evil that is destroying the world. The one ring being dropped into the fires of Mordor.  Deus Ex.

The ring in LOTR isn't a DEM. At all.
How ca you even dare o compre it to the rucible and star kid ?

And also, o whoever said otherwise mass effect 3 is isted as an example of ass pull on Tvtropes

...Because Oransel re-added the entry. It was deleted before just a couple minutes ago. 

[NedPepper]

squee365 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

 

No, but they do list it as a Diabolus Ex Machina which by the way is worst.

..No they list Harbinger's beam as that. Jeez guys. Are you just intentionally ignoring details to get people upset or are you just not paying that much attention?

Yes, they are.  Because they are going to prove their point even if they have to ignore the very principles they are talking about if it doesn't fit into MASS EFFECT 3 is the worst game ever.  It doesn't matter if the same literary device was used in the other two games.  I can only attack it in Mass Effect 3 because I hate it.

Modifié par nedpepper, 14 juillet 2012 - 08:37 .

[robertthebard]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

 

I know exactly what it means.  I'm thinking you do not.  It's the God in the Machine.  A plot device that quickly and often illogicially solves an issue in a story, often times used to end a story when the writer has backed himself into a corner.  I'm thinking you have no idea what a deus ex machina is.  Watch the film Adaptation.  It's used on purpose and will give you an example.  Or read Lord of the Rings.  How do you kill an all powerful evil that is destroying the world. The one ring being dropped into the fires of Mordor.  Deus Ex.

The ring in LOTR isn't a DEM. At all.
How ca you even dare o compre it to the rucible and star kid ?

And also, o whoever said otherwise mass effect 3 is isted as an example of ass pull on Tvtropes

I agree about the Ring, since destroying it is the whole point of the last 3 books, it's not pulled out of thin air at the last minute to say "ta da, we found a way".  It is also explained in the second book exactly how, and why it would work.

Any site that can be edited by just anyone is not a reliable source, especially when the person that listed the game as such admits that he added it himself "because some fanboy removed it".  My take is, some hater added it to substantiate a claim.

[Kamfrenchie]

squee365 wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

 

I know exactly what it means.  I'm thinking you do not.  It's the God in the Machine.  A plot device that quickly and often illogicially solves an issue in a story, often times used to end a story when the writer has backed himself into a corner.  I'm thinking you have no idea what a deus ex machina is.  Watch the film Adaptation.  It's used on purpose and will give you an example.  Or read Lord of the Rings.  How do you kill an all powerful evil that is destroying the world. The one ring being dropped into the fires of Mordor.  Deus Ex.

The ring in LOTR isn't a DEM. At all.
How ca you even dare o compre it to the rucible and star kid ?

And also, o whoever said otherwise mass effect 3 is isted as an example of ass pull on Tvtropes

...Because Oransel re-added the entry. It was deleted before just a couple minutes ago. 

yeah but it had been there for a while before it  was erased and re added.

[Kamfrenchie]

robertthebard wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

 

I know exactly what it means.  I'm thinking you do not.  It's the God in the Machine.  A plot device that quickly and often illogicially solves an issue in a story, often times used to end a story when the writer has backed himself into a corner.  I'm thinking you have no idea what a deus ex machina is.  Watch the film Adaptation.  It's used on purpose and will give you an example.  Or read Lord of the Rings.  How do you kill an all powerful evil that is destroying the world. The one ring being dropped into the fires of Mordor.  Deus Ex.

The ring in LOTR isn't a DEM. At all.
How ca you even dare o compre it to the rucible and star kid ?

And also, o whoever said otherwise mass effect 3 is isted as an example of ass pull on Tvtropes

I agree about the Ring, since destroying it is the whole point of the last 3 books, it's not pulled out of thin air at the last minute to say "ta da, we found a way".  It is also explained in the second book exactly how, and why it would work.

Any site that can be edited by just anyone is not a reliable source, especially when the person that listed the game as such admits that he added it himself "because some fanboy removed it".  My take is, some hater added it to substantiate a claim.

OK, but the crucible could still qualify as an ass pull acording to the definition given.

[robertthebard]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Oransel wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
People: STOP USING DEUS EX MACHINA as your main point of hatred for ME 3.  The Conduit in ME1 is a giant Deus Ex.  You actually teleport right to the Citadel.....half of the Illusive Man's info about knowing where the Collectors are going to hit?  Deus Ex.  The IM himself is a giant Deus Ex in all of ME2.
.

Wow. Person does not what the term means and tries to teach people. Amazing.

 

I know exactly what it means.  I'm thinking you do not.  It's the God in the Machine.  A plot device that quickly and often illogicially solves an issue in a story, often times used to end a story when the writer has backed himself into a corner.  I'm thinking you have no idea what a deus ex machina is.  Watch the film Adaptation.  It's used on purpose and will give you an example.  Or read Lord of the Rings.  How do you kill an all powerful evil that is destroying the world. The one ring being dropped into the fires of Mordor.  Deus Ex.

The ring in LOTR isn't a DEM. At all.
How ca you even dare o compre it to the rucible and star kid ?

And also, o whoever said otherwise mass effect 3 is isted as an example of ass pull on Tvtropes

I agree about the Ring, since destroying it is the whole point of the last 3 books, it's not pulled out of thin air at the last minute to say "ta da, we found a way".  It is also explained in the second book exactly how, and why it would work.

Any site that can be edited by just anyone is not a reliable source, especially when the person that listed the game as such admits that he added it himself "because some fanboy removed it".  My take is, some hater added it to substantiate a claim.

OK, but the crucible could still qualify as an ass pull acording to the definition given.

While it wasn't present in all three games, or even the last two, we start out the third game with a blueprint to build the ultimate Reaper killer weapon.  Now, maybe it's not used well, but I think it is planned.  Could fall under semantics, or matter of opinion here though, so I won't go on and on about it.

[Atakuma]

squee365 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

nedpepper wrote...
.  Really?  Now you're just amusing.  But do illuminate my uneducated mind on the literary device known as an "asspull."   Please help us poor ignorant masses.

Probably talking about this.

Note that the site does not list ME3 as an example of the trope.

Edit: their ME3 page is pretty interesting.

 

No, but they do list it as a Diabolus Ex Machina which by the way is worst.

..No they list Harbinger's beam as that. Jeez guys. Are you just intentionally ignoring details to get people upset or are you just not paying that much attention?

The entry is wrong anyway, there's nothing out of left field about a reaper firing a beam at people.