310 réponses à ce sujet

[Shepardtheshepard]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Shepardtheshepard wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Name one scifi space saga that portrays the humanity of the characters better than ME3?

That is ME3's STRENGTH.

ME1 doesn't have this.

Star Trek. Especially Deep Space Nine towards the end, when it goes into full war movie mode.

Deep Space Nine is a bad example while Stargate: Atantis would have been a better example.  Btw he was more so talking about video games.

Yet you assume I've seen Stargate: Atlantis.

[Xeranx]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Yet that is not an assumption. He did not, in fact, make any specifications.

I'm in agreement.  He also didn't clarify what he wanted us to focus on after some of us gave him television shows as a response.

This was his post that we responded to:

Please....

Mass Effect 3 rises above ME1, video games, and almost
all space operas in showing the characters humanity and talking about
sacrifice, death, and loss.

ME1 is the most like a traditional space opera....too bad.

The part in bold is key because he is now branching out of the realm of video games. 

[Kamfrenchie]

txgoldrush wrote...

klarabella wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

Its rare for a space opera, much less a video game.

...Not really.

And I wouldn't say ME3 revolves around death and loss either.

When the story has sacrifice as its main theme....yes it does.

I don't see how it has sacrifice as a main theme. Could you elaborate?

Word of God said so.....

The conflicts with both antagonists revolve around sacrifice....which basically the real conflict is about those willing to give their lives for the mission and loved ones vs those who forcibly sacrifice others to achieve their goals, which is TIM and The Catalyst. This is really evident in the last confrontation with TIM, and also the ending choices all involve sacrifice.

Nevermind the countless sacrifices throughout the game or the many conversations revolving around sacrifice, both from those willing to give their lives and from a leaders perspective when their actions determines who makes the sacrifice.

then any story with a conflict is about sacrifice. 40k has countless sacrifices in it, but it isn't the necessarily the main point of the plot.

also, someone mentionned firefly and i think you missed it.

maybe i could point to the freepace 2 mod war in heaven

also, not sci fi, but ww$orld i conflict  wasn't too bad with the characters.

And emotion isn't everything

[Eluril]

Xeranx wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

If you don't understand why Mass Effect 1 was an amazing experience and sets itself apart from Mass Effect 3, then you're the kind of gamer that cares only about gameplay and graphics. Nothing wrong with that btw.

Mass Effect 1 was a true artistic game. So was Mass Effect 2. 3 on the other hand became a fast paced action shooter just like every other game these days.

Please....

Mass Effect 3 rises above ME1, video games, and almost all space operas in showing the characters humanity and talking about sacrifice, death, and loss.

ME1 is the most like a traditional space opera....too bad.

There is so much wrong within your first sentence i wouldn't know where to begin. Not so much that you said it rises above ME1, cause hey everyone has their opinion. But you go about saying it rises above video games and
"all space operas in showing the characters humanity and talking about sacrifice, death, and loss."

Cut me a break. I know you loved the game, but really? You're gonna treat ME3 like it's end all be all sci fi story? A 10 year old could explain in intricate detail, what a dumb statement you just made.

Name one scifi space saga that portrays the humanity of the characters better than ME3?

That is ME3's STRENGTH.

ME1 doesn't have this.

Are we limiting the scope of your challenge to space opera or any story that occurs in space?  Because Firefly does a great deal to humanize the characters.  It does it even more so in Serenity.

Star Trek Voyager also does a good job in showing the humanity of its characters.  It gets campy from time to time, but they do delve into loss, family, horror, friendship, etc.  Heck, the whole thing with Seven of Nine is practically EDI.  The loss of Kess was terrible.  In fact, I don't think the show was the same after that.  I remember when I saw that (and it was on reruns by then) that I absolutely hated it.  Kess was an awesome character.

LOL Voyager....

[Eluril]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Lol at all this nostalgia, looking at ME1 through rose-colored glasses. It was a great game, ME 3 didn't live up to expectations but the level of hyperbole is ridiculous

+25 I've seen this on every single bioware game since Neverwinter Nights. Mass Effect only gets more attention because frankly it's a light year beyond the quality of the previous Bioware games (and I never would've said this when Baldur's Gate 2 was released.)

[Eluril]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

If you don't understand why Mass Effect 1 was an amazing experience and sets itself apart from Mass Effect 3, then you're the kind of gamer that cares only about gameplay and graphics. Nothing wrong with that btw.

Mass Effect 1 was a true artistic game. So was Mass Effect 2. 3 on the other hand became a fast paced action shooter just like every other game these days.

I disagree 1000% If anything ME2 (it's amazing) is a straight up Dirty Dozen action game with a bit of RPG thrown in. It's got a straight up X-men arcade boss battle for one thing. I for one DO care about presentation (how the game developers present the story, how cinematic and smooth it is) and art direction but could care less about actual "graphics" (polygon counts etc). For me ME3 was stronger than ME1. It's gameplay is far superior to 1's clunky ass combat poor menu system, poor minigames, extremely repetitive exploration missions (oh look another probe wonder what's in that, oh yet another rifle component that I already have 10 of, "reduce to omnigel, reduce to omnigel, reduce to omnigel)

[3DandBeyond]

marcustheMezz wrote...

 And how some people look at the endings and say there fine because it was a "dark" series, that is NOT what it started out as, and NOT what it should've been.

Agreed.  I never saw it as a dark series.  There were some serious issues, but there were so many moments that were just funny that is meant to "lighten" it.  If it were dark, Shepard would have died in ME1 and someone would have taken his/her place.  Or Shepard really could die at any time and so on.  And dark would mean that you don't have the possibility of saving everyone in ME2 or saving or killing Wrex in ME1.  Sure, Kaidan or Ashley will die.  But even that doesn't make the game truly dark.  The one that remains finds redemption for things done wrong.  All characters do find redemption.  And sacrifice done right that also pays homage to redemption is see in what either Kaidan or Ashley does and in what Mordin does later on.  They are sad, but not dark-they actually make you feel amazed and proud of what some people will do for others.  Dark is when people continually die and often for no reason-that's what happens at the end of ME3.

[VinWizzy]

I laugh at those who played ME3 first and said it's 10x better than the previous installments. Like seriously GTFO.

[Gioloverso]

ME1: More Open of a game. I felt like I was never going to see everything. the story while ok at the start had the Best plot twist the the series with the whole concept of the reapers wiping out life every 50k years. it had a large amount of weight on it. The concept of the unknown in such deep parts of space only had me guessing and unsettled.

ME2: better graphics and cutscenes.
( Love the intro with the ship being blown apart and walking through it )
Some great characters ( yay Tali romance ). But in the overall theme of the Reapers, it just didn't feel it. The Reaper plot twist was soo big that everything else seemed watered down. While I did enjoy some of the collector stuff, I just felt soo bored going on errand quest for all my team mates.
I mean seriously the Universe is about to be wiped out by GIANT MACHINES and Now saving your d-dag of a son is more important? .
ME3 : Graphics where great, music and action. The game just felt short, I wanted more!! I had nothing against the Endings , The theory everyone had on it was great, I will admit. The fights were intense and the music fit them rather well. I rather liked the Bitter sweet ending because sometimes hard choices have to be made. While The concept of dark matter would be interesting , an Anime called Gurren lagann pretty much already covered that concept. I will say that i LOVED the dialog scenes, they looked really good whenever having a converstation.

The thing I did not like was how the reapers never used their methods from the previous cycles. I always thought from ME1 that the reapers gather Info on us by using the citadel. Then when they come they close down the relays cutting everyone off from each other and take over. Also everyone's complaint about the War assets is soo stupid. The reapers are like a billion years old. The whole theme of ME1 was that if they ever got into our space, we were done for and stood no chance. The reapers already destroyed like 60% of the universe before you get to the end of the game. So there really was no chance.  But in the end, it's a game. As a gamer im kind of ashamed of allot of ME fans who constantly complain. These guys put allot of work into this game, Even if it didn't go "your" way. it' looks bad to insult their hard work over and over again. No game can ever Please Every person who plays it.

Modifié par Gioloverso, 15 juillet 2012 - 08:14 .

[3DandBeyond]

VinWizzy wrote...

I laugh at those who played ME3 first and said it's 10x better than the previous installments. Like seriously GTFO.

I bought ME1 long before I bought ME2 and 3, but never played it because I had a lousy computer, then it died and I didn't want to install their DRM on my new computer.  So, I played ME2 and 3 first.  My honest assessment is ME1 is a great game, not polished and older, sure but it is more of a complete experience than ME3 is.  It asks and answers pertinent questions within the game and does not contradict itself.  It sets up the story and it shows clearly the different personalities of people and of different alien races.  It also sets up the resistance to even acknowledging the threat-the hurdles Shepard will continually have to overcome.  The council races don't want to admit anything exists that they can't handle-so it must be the geth and Shepard must be delusional.

We are introduced to some of the main conflicts of the story, that will become we think relevant in any final chapter.  We see people in a state where they don't even realize how capable they are, how good and all they can become, and how needed and respected even they will be.  We are introduced to a whole galaxy of damaged people and only one person who has chosen a different path.

ME1 in showing us damaged people sets the stage for two main themes that become very important and are just dumped at the end of ME3.  Redemption and unity.  The galaxy as a whole needs this but so do individuals and races. 

ME1 does a fantastic job of introducing us to that.  We understand the inner conflict in Ashley and that it's holding her back.  The same with others.  It's a great game and in the way that it is a complete product that never strays from its theme, it is far superior to the graphically better and more action oriented ME3.  Again, that's part of what's wrong with ME3.  It has a 3 at the end of it and needed to fully fit story wise with the other 2 games.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 15 juillet 2012 - 08:32 .

[Xeranx]

Gioloverso wrote...

ME1: More Open of a game. I felt like I was never going to see everything. the story while ok at the start had the Best plot twist the the series with the whole concept of the reapers wiping out life every 50k years. it had a large amount of weight on it. The concept of the unknown in such deep parts of space only had me guessing and unsettled.

ME2: better graphics and cutscenes.
( Love the intro with the ship being blown apart and walking through it )
Some great characters ( yay Tali romance ). But in the overall theme of the Reapers, it just didn't feel it. The Reaper plot twist was soo big that everything else seemed watered down. While I did enjoy some of the collector stuff, I just felt soo bored going on errand quest for all my team mates.
I mean seriously the Universe is about to be wiped out by GIANT MACHINES and Now saving your d-dag of a son is more important? .
ME3 : Graphics where great, music and action. The game just felt short, I wanted more!! I had nothing against the Endings , The theory everyone had on it was great, I will admit. The fights were intense and the music fit them rather well. I rather liked the Bitter sweet ending because sometimes hard choices have to be made. While The concept of dark matter would be interesting , an Anime called Gurren lagann pretty much already covered that concept. I will say that i LOVED the dialog scenes, they looked really good whenever having a converstation.

The thing I did not like was how the reapers never used their methods from the previous cycles. I always thought from ME1 that the reapers gather Info on us by using the citadel. Then when they come they close down the relays cutting everyone off from each other and take over. Also everyone's complaint about the War assets is soo stupid. The reapers are like a billion years old. The whole theme of ME1 was that if they ever got into our space, we were done for and stood no chance. The reapers already destroyed like 60% of the universe before you get to the end of the game. So there really was no chance.  But in the end, it's a game. As a gamer im kind of ashamed of allot of ME fans who constantly complain. These guys put allot of work into this game, Even if it didn't go "your" way. it' looks bad to insult their hard work over and over again. No game can ever Please Every person who plays it.

I would have agree with your last point had we encountered Vigil during ME3.  The problem here is that we got the early warning (Prothean beacon) on Eden Prime within the first hour(?) of the game.  Vigil was encountered towards the end when we actually had Saren on the run.  Saren was rushing to complete his objective by then.  By some stroke of luck we managed to get our main antagonist worried that he might not succeed in his plans.  And then we beat Sovereign down who also tried to succeed at all costs to get the relay open to dark space.  Sure, some called it stupid that Saren became mecha-Saren, but had he succeeded the Reapers would be pouring in.  That was the goal.

Now that we had actually taken out a member of a group that killed the last advanced civilization, thanks in large part to the survivors of that civilization that were able to warn us, we had a better chance than anyone else ever had.  This part of the story was supposed to be the pivotal moment at which we either run towards possible success or run towards our death.  Unfortunately, the latter was chosen and not by us.  It was stupidly forced towards our nigh assured destruction.  We were already facing that possibility.  Why double down on it when the avenues to give us a leg up in a fight were there?  It's changing the parameters of the game and it's similar to the unfair changes one would make as a child: 

I can't lose. Though I should die due to the mortal wound I've been inflicted with and in accordance to the reality we established, I'm going to deny that mortal wound a chance to kill me and give myself a greater edge at survival than I didn't have before.

At such a point, I don't see the story being treated fairly at all.  It was at the moment of ME2 that a chance at a conventional method to beat the Reapers was dashed without concern for how it would appear to others.  Namely the consumers they wished to purchase it.

There was, effectively, two years to do some good.  Wreckage of Sovereign was never recovered though I had hoped the Council would have been doing their own thing while they kept Shepard in the dark.  Here I was, again, hoping for something smart out of what was forced to happen by the writers, but again they were forced to be stupid.  ME3 following on its heels can only do what it can and what it does really amounts to nothing.  There's no real chance for success.  We're led to wherever the writers want to take us and it's not to a place that's ultimately satisfying.  Should I or anyone really be forgiving of someone who charges as much as they do for the product they put out when they don't put out something that is satisfactory?  Keep in mind that software purchases (at least in the US) is full of risk on the part of the consumer.  Pay a pretty penny and the only way you can usually get your money back is if the product is defective when you open it.  This is the first time I've ever heard of stores refunding people their money back after a game was played in the States and it has EA/Bioware's name on it.