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[SCJ90]

I fell in love with ME1, greatest in the series and the best thing that BW has made (in my opinion)

I still go back and play it sometimes

[10K]

Blueprotoss wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

I agree. ME1 created a universe that was rich in story and introduce me to awesome characters I will never forget. ME2 did the samething, expanding that universe even further, plus giving us even more interesting characters. ME3 was fun. but it just failed and all those aspects of its predecessors dehlivered. And at the end of the day, it just felt like a shooting simulator.

It sounds like you're sad that the trilogy is over no matter what happened while you're forgetting about DLC.  Btw ME has been an Action RPG since the beginning of ME1 until the end of ME3, but that subgenre is ever changing just like the RPG genre as a whole. 

You know what I am sad that the trilogy is over I'll admit that. But that doesn't change the way I feel about ME3 as a whole. IMO I felt as if ME1 and 2 were more story and character oriented and ME3 just stopped following that framework and turned into this whole third person shooter. At certain points it did feel like ME, but as the game went on those points began to fade. ME3 is a fun game, but I feel it wasn't as great as the previous titles.  

Modifié par mosesarose, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:02 .

[Dutchess]

AbsoluteApril wrote...

renjility wrote...

ME really did not have as much dialogue options as you may believe. Upon starting a new game and picking different options, I had an awful lot of "woah, Shepard says exactly the same as with the other choice". The autodialogue in ME3 was simply more honest and did not bother with letting you choose between three options that would result in the exact same line coming out of Shepard's mouth.

I would much rather have the option of my Shepard saying a Paragon "Yes" or a Renegade "Um, I don't know" and get the same response from the NCP than have 10 minutes of autodialogue. At least I'd feel like a part of the conversation, even if it is just the illusion of having an impact on the conversation.
 
The "static" standing while I make the choice never bothered me personally.. I'm reading the lines to choose, not staring at Shepard thinking 'what a derp just standing there'.

In ME3 there were plenty of times my renegade shep would say something like "it was a shame she died' but heck no, that Shepard wouldn't care.. the autodialogue pulled my Shepards out of character.

Fair enough. I prefer it if they just skip the silly lie and let Shepard say the line he/she has to say anyway. It's just weird when the renegade choice to the council is the same as the paragon. 

[Mcfly616]

ME1 FTW!


One of my top 3 "favorite" games ever....


Honestly though, I see a lot of people saying ME3's story is such a departure from where the series started.....BUT if anything ME2 is out of nowhere, straight from left field, departed from the story that kicked off the series

I knew this my first playthrough of ME2 back in 2010.....it was a complete departure....yet for some reason it seems everybody overlooks that fact and calls it their favorite of the series....

Make no mistake though, all the plot holes and departures, started in ME2, when they pulled a 180 on the direction of the story.....

If anything ME3 attempted to get back to their origins(even though it has its faults)

While I love the entire series, ME2 is the start of the problems "story-wise".....and nothing ME3 did was ever going to get the story completely back on track and make it cohesive with its origins

[Mylia Stenetch]

Tigerman123 wrote...

ME 1 had the same hackneyed formula about ancient progenitors returning to wreak havoc that we'd seen a thousand times before

Yup cannot agree more than with this statement. Mass Effect is designed to be an emotional thrill ride, taking you around to see and feel the various planets you visit and gain attachment to all characters that become not just allies friends. It is a Sci-Fi Space Opera, a pulp-game romancing old pulp-films, and Star Wars. 

It had the same amount of intelegence as the original trilogy of Star Wars.

[TookYoCookies]

Eain wrote...

Listen to this song from Mass Effect 1 as you read my post:

The Wards.

-----------------------------

So now the game is all space ninjas and space lassos and generic villains and explosions and witless one-liners. Just look at the latest Earth DLC for multiplayer and the style they've gone for. Does that look in any way like the throwback to 70's sci-fi this series started out as?

The first five minutes aboard the Normandy and the subsequent events on Eden Prime and the Citadel are themselves already superior to everything in ME3, but I guess someone somewhere decided that if they wanted to reach out to a "larger audience" and give the game "broader appeal" the series had to become an interactive Michael Bay film. Now I love Michael Bay's films every now and again, but I also loved Mass Effect for being what it was, and the two blend poorly.

When I play Mass Effect 3 I barely even feel like I'm playing a game set in the same universe. Play ME1's opening act and ME3's opening act back to back and see the difference.

I'm at a point where it just feels increasingly easy to dismiss the entire third game as non-canon. The reasons are simple:

1) People are called the same but look different.
2) Thematically the game has nothing in common with its predecessors.
3) The Reapers adhere in no way to the invasion plan establish in earlier games.
4) TIM is completely out of character.
5) Shepard's autodialogue means that she speaks when I should be speaking for her.
6) Space ninjas start appearing out of nowhere.
7) The Crucible appears out of nowhere and has no foreshadowing.
8) The game disregards choices I made in previous installments.
9) Were it not for the Lazarus Project, a fan effort at fixing face import, my Shepard would have looked nothing like the one I played in ME1 and ME2.

You know how sometimes a comic book series would change its artist and look different? And you find it hard to take it seriously anymore? That's what ME3 feels like to me. The sheer joy I experience when playing ME1, the way I can really soak in the universe... there's nothing of that here. It's a linear corridor shooter and an entirely disconnected experience from part 1 and part 2 of the trilogy. It feels different, looks different, is told differently, nothing's the same. Kai Leng to me is the symbol of everything that went wrong artistically, the Catalyst is the symbol of a massive thematic divergence and the Crucible represents a massive shift in narrative quality.

If this game had been made by an underfunded studio of fans who, in the wake of a fictional Bioware bankrupcy, wanted nothing more than to give the series a conclusion, I would've given them an A for effort and then dismissed it as fan-fiction. But because Bioware made this we're supposed to take it seriously?

QFT.


Its like a Sapce Opera got Replaced with some tweeny Space Dubstep/ Katy perry Remix.

ME3 is childs play.

[Mylia Stenetch]

renjility wrote...

ME really did not have as much dialogue options as you may believe. Upon starting a new game and picking different options, I had an awful lot of "woah, Shepard says exactly the same as with the other choice". The autodialogue in ME3 was simply more honest and did not bother with letting you choose between three options that would result in the exact same line coming out of Shepard's mouth.

Yeah I had that too, it is funny how rose-tinted glasses change our perception and opinion over time. Also I think it was cause of the spoiling that happened since Mass Effect came out, since it became a more growing trend to have branching dialouge, and braching stories, to where ME3 is just the other games out there.


Edit

TookYoCookies wrote...

Its like a Sapce Opera got Replaced with some tweeny Space Dubstep/ Katy perry Remix.

ME3 is childs play.

 

It was always a Space Opera through all three games. It started off happy since the world was not in war yet, then it got darker till the end when it was time to complete the story and everything became happy again.

Modifié par Mylia Stenetch, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:31 .

[3DandBeyond]

Mcfly616 wrote...

ME1 FTW!


One of my top 3 "favorite" games ever....


Honestly though, I see a lot of people saying ME3's story is such a departure from where the series started.....BUT if anything ME2 is out of nowhere, straight from left field, departed from the story that kicked off the series

I knew this my first playthrough of ME2 back in 2010.....it was a complete departure....yet for some reason it seems everybody overlooks that fact and calls it their favorite of the series....

Make no mistake though, all the plot holes and departures, started in ME2, when they pulled a 180 on the direction of the story.....

If anything ME3 attempted to get back to their origins(even though it has its faults)

While I love the entire series, ME2 is the start of the problems "story-wise".....and nothing ME3 did was ever going to get the story completely back on track and make it cohesive with its origins

The reason I didn't feel that ME2 departed from that is because Shepard was there large and in charge and I still had the sense the reapers were ever present even if the collectors were front and center.  I felt it did set up TIM in a way for good or bad, but many of the things that should have been explored and great characters developed there just got dumped.  TIM carries over but the impact of all that was done just isn't there in ME3. 

I had the feeling in ME2 that they were setting up some really great stories that would play out in ME3 and they only went with a couple of them.  Things that were more personal to Shepard would have really tied the games together.  The collectors were Protheans and they were after Shepard's body and then Shepard--why?  They started the Omega plague, were obsessed with humans and were looking for human genetic mutations.  Why? 

Then the ME2 ending I figured that and the Cerberus intel that I kept, the decision of the graybox, Haestrom, the decision over the collector base, and all kinds of things would matter in ME3.  Nothing did. 

The character development and the catharsis all Shepard's teammates went through in ME2 carried through themes of ME.  In ME1 and then on into ME2, Ashley is shown as damaged by events not of her making.  With Shepard's help she is redeemed and finds her own worth.  This happens time and again with every single character of importance in the game, even Vega and Cortes, Kelly and Sam, EDI, Joker, Dr. Chakwas.  Every one of them find redemption.  Dr. Chakwas is alone, but ultimately sees her worth in the "children" or family she has.  She is there for Joker and feels like a fish out of water without that.

And so that's what ME2 is.  It's about redemption--shown physically in the rebirth of Shepard and it's the name of the graphic novel about finding Shepard's body.  But go on a little further with all this.  Find all the metaphors relating to redemption that exist in the game and you will see that is the most important theme that should have tied all 3 games together.

Redemption
Fish out of water-every person of note in the game, close to Shepard is a fish out of water, alone and basically uncared about.  Shepard doesn't ever stop and think, "who cares about me?"  Shepard shows what s/he is and spurs people to find their own worth.  And they become more than they ever were.
Phoenix--the phoenix rises "From the Ashes".  The ultimate story of redemption and rebirth-exactly what Shepard does in the beginning of ME2.  Shepard is the phoenix in ME2.  Perhaps that is the meaning of the torso in rubble in ME3, but it's really hard to get there with Shepard having to kill EDI and the geth in order to once again rise from the ashes.  The very story of the Phoenix implies immortality and a continual cycle of death and rebirth.

But the one game that just kind of throws that out is ME3 at the end.  Where's the redemption there? 

[Taboo]

Good art stimulates both the mind and the heart. Mass Effect was always really good at that. ME3 has some of the best moments in the series. Mordin's death, Thane's death, especially what Kolyat say after he expires mimic exactely whatart should do.

Unfortunately, whenever Mac Walters took over, my Shepard turned into an action hero with an IQ of ninety. Gone were the emotional inflections upon right and wrong, gone where was the ability to rationalize things. And for God's sake the one liners.

I choose Destroy not only because I feel it better than the others, but because it best represents what I saw the series being about. Denying an unprecedented authority to define your own future. The Destruction of the Geth and EDI is unjustifiable, but I know my Shepard would take responsibility for it, regardless of how much Mac Walters wants to turn him into some sort of satirical brooding sacrificial lamb.

So there.

[Mylia Stenetch]

3DandBeyond wrote...

But the one game that just kind of throws that out is ME3 at the end.  Where's the redemption there? 

You see where one's redemption led to from the prevous two games.You see the peace the characters made with themselves, and for others the final piece they needed to find peace. Redemption plays a large role in ME3. The main them is Death & Redemption to me, since people have to look at the death toll that is acumilating, the losses all around them and have to find the courage to stand up and fight for what they belive is right.

For the phoenix, it is true at the end, the rebirth of the phoenix was the starting of a new cycle where all synthetic life was gone. Shepard started a new cycle and will be emblazened and immortilized till the end of time as the savoir of glactic life. While the death of the Geth and EDI is sad, it also bring about their rebith into a new breed, since we can build them again, faster, stronger. A better AI.

[Taboo]

It actually reminds of of Apocalypse Now. (I can't be the only one who squealed when Martin Sheen said "dossiers" in ME2.)

To overcome war you must make it terrible.

But this time sans an obese Marlon Brando.

"The horror...the horror."

[dreamgazer]

Yes, ME1 is, indeed, the superior experience, in terms of both intellectual stimulation and environment/lore immersion.

ME3 has plenty of cathartic and evocative qualities too, though, that do line up with the universe's themes. You're just forced to stomach some unfortunate audience-broadening flaws to get to them.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:45 .

[Taboo]

dreamgazer wrote...

Yes, ME1 is, indeed, the superior experience, in terms of both intellectual stimulation and environment/lore immersion.

ME3 has plenty of cathartic and evocative qualities too, though, that do line up with the universe's themes. You're just forced to stomach some unfortunately audience-broadening flaws to get to them.

Nice avatar. I hope they release that sometime in the near future.

I wouldn't mind certain things if they weren't so...corny.

I can understand being stressed out by all of this and having nightmares, but I can't deal with the overabunance of guilt that surrounds the dream sequences.

My Shepard is worried about his friends as well. Why can't Garrus be in a dream, or Miranda?

Symbolism is nice when it isn't bludgeoned over your head. I completely understand what the child represents Mr. Walters, but I already had that feelings sans dream sequences.

[3DandBeyond]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

But the one game that just kind of throws that out is ME3 at the end.  Where's the redemption there? 

You see where one's redemption led to from the prevous two games.You see the peace the characters made with themselves, and for others the final piece they needed to find peace. Redemption plays a large role in ME3. The main them is Death & Redemption to me, since people have to look at the death toll that is acumilating, the losses all around them and have to find the courage to stand up and fight for what they belive is right.

For the phoenix, it is true at the end, the rebirth of the phoenix was the starting of a new cycle where all synthetic life was gone. Shepard started a new cycle and will be emblazened and immortilized till the end of time as the savoir of glactic life. While the death of the Geth and EDI is sad, it also bring about their rebith into a new breed, since we can build them again, faster, stronger. A better AI.

Well this is to be hoped-that the geth and EDI can be rebuilt, but....

Again this leads to a discussion of what life is.  I tend to remember Shepard and EDI having just such a discussion, but won't try to quote it here.

The questions that would be raised in thinking EDI could be rebuilt are also found in asking what are we?  I know we are made mostly of water, carbon, and a lot of other chemicals and molecules.  But that's not all we are.  Take a clone, for instance or in the game the reborn Shepard in contrast to a clone.  A clone is the same thing as the original, but it's not.  It doesn't have the unique experiences that formed its knowledge and personality.  TIM wanted Shepard to be Shepard.  Why?  Because Shepard was not just parts-Shepard was the sum total of what s/he had seen and done and cared about.

So, I don't believe a rebuilt EDI would be EDI.  She would never have experienced all those things alongside Joker and her teammates and Shepard.  She would never have seen what it meant to sacrifice and care and do and be the best you can be even when it's difficult.  She would have no reason to determine to be alive and to shut down some of her internal programming and then to love, because the environment that formed her would no longer exist.

It's that age old question of nature vs.nurture.  Unless you could reconstruct all of EDI's original memories and experiences as if they were never destroyed, EDI would not be EDI.

Just to let you know I do usually choose destroy because that is the only choice that puts people back directly in charge of their own destiny, it was the goal all along, everyone knew it was probably a suicidal mission and they might die, and EDI told me she would die for her crewmates.  I hate Bioware for making me feel so crappy for choosing it, but I can find absolutely no reason to pick any other choice.


And my question on redemption was where was redemption at the end-I agree the only redemption would be in people for once relying on themselves and in the unity Shepard had showed them was possible.  I really wish that when Hackett was talking about them all working together, they had changed it to Shepard saying it-Shepard was the only one always working for that.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:54 .

[AresKeith]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

But the one game that just kind of throws that out is ME3 at the end.  Where's the redemption there? 

You see where one's redemption led to from the prevous two games.You see the peace the characters made with themselves, and for others the final piece they needed to find peace. Redemption plays a large role in ME3. The main them is Death & Redemption to me, since people have to look at the death toll that is acumilating, the losses all around them and have to find the courage to stand up and fight for what they belive is right.

For the phoenix, it is true at the end, the rebirth of the phoenix was the starting of a new cycle where all synthetic life was gone. Shepard started a new cycle and will be emblazened and immortilized till the end of time as the savoir of glactic life. While the death of the Geth and EDI is sad, it also bring about their rebith into a new breed, since we can build them again, faster, stronger. A better AI.

Well this is to be hoped-that the geth and EDI can be rebuilt, but....

Again this leads to a discussion of what life is.  I tend to remember Shepard and EDI having just such a discussion, but won't try to quote it here.

The questions that would be raised in thinking EDI could be rebuilt are also found in asking what are we?  I know we are made mostly of water, carbon, and a lot of other chemicals and molecules.  But that's not all we are.  Take a clone, for instance or in the game the reborn Shepard in contrast to a clone.  A clone is the same thing as the original, but it's not.  It doesn't have the unique experiences that formed its knowledge and personality.  TIM wanted Shepard to be Shepard.  Why?  Because Shepard was not just parts-Shepard was the sum total of what s/he had seen and done and cared about.

So, I don't believe a rebuilt EDI would be EDI.  She would never have experienced all those things alongside Joker and her teammates and Shepard.  She would never have seen what it meant to sacrifice and care and do and be the best you can be even when it's difficult.  She would have no reason to determine to be alive and to shut down some of her internal programming and then to love, because the environment that formed her would no longer exist.

It's that age old question of nature vs.nurture.  Unless you could reconstruct all of EDI's original memories and experiences as if they were never destroyed, EDI would not be EDI.

Just to let you know I do usually choose destroy because that is the only choice that puts people back directly in charge of their own destiny, it was the goal all along, everyone knew it was probably a suicidal mission and they might die, and EDI told me she would die for her crewmates.  I hate Bioware for making me feel so crappy for choosing it, but I can find absolutely no reason to pick any other choice.

when they showed the flashback of EDI and Legion I said I was sorry cuz I felt bad, but I had to pick Destroy, I would pick refuse if Bioware worked it around our War Assets.

I won't pick control because to me it makes it look Shepard will be the new bad guy

[Ownedbacon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Veneke wrote...

It is the single most depressing thing of our time that people have come to understand fact as opinion and opinion as fact.

Yet this is hypocritcal based on you trying to turn your personal beliefs into facts.

Veneke wrote... 

Bad writing has plotholes, unnatural character developments, handwaves... the list goes on. It can still be enjoyed, but it is not good writing. This is not opinion, this is literary fact and is so irrespective of what you think of my credibility.

Writing is subjective in general just like how gameplay, visuals, and sound is subjective as well.  Btw since you're claiming plot holes then you should look at the ME series from start to finish.

The major plot holes are caused by Mass Effect 3 and it does affect the entire series.

[3DandBeyond]

AresKeith wrote...

when they showed the flashback of EDI and Legion I said I was sorry cuz I felt bad, but I had to pick Destroy, I would pick refuse if Bioware worked it around our War Assets.

I won't pick control because to me it makes it look Shepard will be the new bad guy

Yeah, if you had some real chance to do something with refuse I would pick it too.  One of the things a lot of us wished you could do (when the original endings were out), was to reject the kid's choices and then have that do something bad to the kid so it made the reapers vulnerable, or reject what he said and tell Hackett and everyone to destroy the citadel and the kid.

And I did pick control once with my paragon shepard and that Shepard said things no paragon would say.  The music was ominous, no one would know Shepard is in charge of the reapers, and unless I had the option of flying the reapers into the sun, I can't see trying to control them.

[TookYoCookies]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...



It was always a Space Opera through all three games. It started off happy since the world was not in war yet, then it got darker till the end when it was time to complete the story and everything became happy again.

Yeah...

"ME3 is Childs play."

[What a Succulent Ass]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet writing is subjective.

It's really isn't. Writing is both a skill and a craft as well as anything else is.

[What a Succulent Ass]

By the way, OP, I'd comment on your choice of soundtrack, but I can't hear you over the sound of Uncharted Worlds 600% slowed.

[Conniving_Eagle]

Eain wrote...

Listen to this song from Mass Effect 1 as you read my post:

The Wards.

-----------------------------

So now the game is all space ninjas and space lassos and generic villains and explosions and witless one-liners. Just look at the latest Earth DLC for multiplayer and the style they've gone for. Does that look in any way like the throwback to 70's sci-fi this series started out as?

The first five minutes aboard the Normandy and the subsequent events on Eden Prime and the Citadel are themselves already superior to everything in ME3, but I guess someone somewhere decided that if they wanted to reach out to a "larger audience" and give the game "broader appeal" the series had to become an interactive Michael Bay film. Now I love Michael Bay's films every now and again, but I also loved Mass Effect for being what it was, and the two blend poorly.

When I play Mass Effect 3 I barely even feel like I'm playing a game set in the same universe. Play ME1's opening act and ME3's opening act back to back and see the difference.

I'm at a point where it just feels increasingly easy to dismiss the entire third game as non-canon. The reasons are simple:

1) People are called the same but look different.
2) Thematically the game has nothing in common with its predecessors.
3) The Reapers adhere in no way to the invasion plan establish in earlier games.
4) TIM is completely out of character.
5) Shepard's autodialogue means that she speaks when I should be speaking for her.
6) Space ninjas start appearing out of nowhere.
7) The Crucible appears out of nowhere and has no foreshadowing.
8) The game disregards choices I made in previous installments.
9) Were it not for the Lazarus Project, a fan effort at fixing face import, my Shepard would have looked nothing like the one I played in ME1 and ME2.

You know how sometimes a comic book series would change its artist and look different? And you find it hard to take it seriously anymore? That's what ME3 feels like to me. The sheer joy I experience when playing ME1, the way I can really soak in the universe... there's nothing of that here. It's a linear corridor shooter and an entirely disconnected experience from part 1 and part 2 of the trilogy. It feels different, looks different, is told differently, nothing's the same. Kai Leng to me is the symbol of everything that went wrong artistically, the Catalyst is the symbol of a massive thematic divergence and the Crucible represents a massive shift in narrative quality.

If this game had been made by an underfunded studio of fans who, in the wake of a fictional Bioware bankrupcy, wanted nothing more than to give the series a conclusion, I would've given them an A for effort and then dismissed it as fan-fiction. But because Bioware made this we're supposed to take it seriously?

+10.

The Citadel is my backround www.google.com/imgres

[Jadebaby]

Agreed OP. A time when you could sit and listen to the codex for hours, because they tried so hard to make it hold suspension of disbelief. Then in ME3 they went suspension of wahhh?

[Blueprotoss]

mosesarose wrote...

You know what I am sad that the trilogy is over I'll admit that. But that doesn't change the way I feel about ME3 as  a whole. IMO I felt as if ME1 and 2 were more story and character oriented and ME3 just stopped following that framework and turned into this whole third person shooter. At certain points it did feel like ME, but as the game went on those points began to fade. ME3 is a fun game, but I feel it wasn't as great as the previous titles.  

It sounds like you were sad based on the trilogy coming to an end, which no matter what happened you would have been disappointed.

Ownedbacon wrote...

The major plot holes are caused by Mass Effect 3 and it does affect the entire series.

Actually there aren't any plot holes in ME3 while it would affect the entire series if ME3 did have plot holes, which I already knew.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:58 .

[o Ventus]

dreman9999 wrote...

My comment is not realy nonsesical. I'm just say that ME1 is not as greataseveryone thinks it is.  The same mature concept arethrough out the series. You just whining about space ninjas even though they have the teck to not only do it and based on the teck from ME1, it logical to work then. Really, you don't think a shild with a weakness of stopping slow moving objects should not be used?
Even more , Me2 and ME3 have more extreme situation and darker plots then ME1. ME2 and 3 ask more moraly conflicting question then ME1 ever did. Really,  you put ME1 on way to high of a pedicile.

Your comment was incredibly nonsensical.

You're saying all of these things as if they are fact, yet you still haven't provided any evidence or examples.

[o Ventus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Actually there aren't any plot holes in ME3 while it would affect the entire series if ME3 did have plot holes, which I already knew.

This is objectively false.