2749 réponses à ce sujet

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Nevermind. I don't want to ****** on people's optimism.

It's strange a pessimist such as yourself would pick Synthesis.

Surely that ending takes an unbelievably deluded level of optimism to think it could actually work.....

Or do you jump into the beam going "haha **** you Galaxy!"

... I'm not a pessimist for not believing one person's theory. Especially not when it largely doesn't pertain to me anyway (I don't pick Refuse). Just making an observation.

If you really care to know my thought-process: I had a gut feeling synthesis was the best solution, and I took it.


@Eagle. Too late, I quoted you. Now suffer!

[Jadebaby]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Nevermind. I don't want to ****** on people's optimism.

It's strange a pessimist such as yourself would pick Synthesis.

Surely that ending takes an unbelievably deluded level of optimism to think it could actually work.....

Or do you jump into the beam going "haha **** you Galaxy!"

... I'm not a pessimist for not believing one person's theory. Especially not when it largely doesn't pertain to me anyway (I don't pick Refuse). Just making an observation.

If you really care to know my thought-process: I had a gut feeling synthesis was the best solution, and I took it.


@Eagle. Too late, I quoted you. Now suffer!

It's not one person's theory, it's a cumilitive effort actually.

Also, can I ask what you thought your Shepard faught for across Mass 1 and Mass 2?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's not one person's theory, it's a cumilitive effort actually.

Also, can I ask what you thought your Shepard faught for across Mass 1 and Mass 2?

To support/uphold galactic peace.
Also, for Jack to have a better life.

[Jadebaby]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's not one person's theory, it's a cumilitive effort actually.

Also, can I ask what you thought your Shepard faught for across Mass 1 and Mass 2?

To support/uphold galactic peace.
Also, for Jack to have a better life.

In order to truly have peace, people need freewill. In order to have freewill people need to be free.

Would you agree at all that your Shepard also faught for freedom?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Yup!

[ShepnTali]

Humble advice... don't ruin this thread with synthesis mumbo jumbo.

[The Twilight God]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

It's not one person's theory, it's a cumilitive effort actually.

Also, can I ask what you thought your Shepard faught for across Mass 1 and Mass 2?

To support/uphold galactic peace.
Also, for Jack to have a better life.

In order to truly have peace, people need freewill. In order to have freewill people need to be free.

Would you agree at all that your Shepard also faught for freedom?

Supposed "free will" is why there is no peace.

[Jadebaby]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Yup!

Then maybe the refuse option is also for you.

Regardless of the result. Shepard stood tall to the Catalyst and outlined exactly what they had always faught for.

I agree with BioWare. An outright win for Shepard would have cheapened Shepard's journey to that point. But it doesn't mean that we "cant" win.

It just means we have to work for it. Like Shepard.

Doing this by frequenting BSN, playing MP, downloading and paying for DLC. And ultimately never letting this ending fiasco slip.

[LucasShark]

Immediate thoughts: "Oh **** NOT AGAIN!"

[Jadebaby]

LucasShark wrote...

Immediate thoughts: "Oh **** NOT AGAIN!"

bah?

[AresKeith]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Yup!

Then maybe the refuse option is also for you.

Regardless of the result. Shepard stood tall to the Catalyst and outlined exactly what they had always faught for.

I agree with BioWare. An outright win for Shepard would have cheapened Shepard's journey to that point. But it doesn't mean that we "cant" win.

It just means we have to work for it. Like Shepard.

Doing this by frequenting BSN, playing MP, downloading and paying for DLC. And ultimately never letting this ending fiasco slip.

exactly because I have over 10000 EMS right now, and all of it is pointless. Thats why I'm hoping Bioware is adding on to refuse because its still weird that there's a required EMS to refuse by words

[The Twilight God]

Shepard knows very well that the fleets cannot win conventionally. Shepard is affectively sided with the Reapers even if they have convinced him it's his idea. That pitiful slouched look he sports isn't the look of a guy with high hopes. That's a broken pathetic defeated man.

And the speech is contrary to the situation.

Shepard says, "No, I'm going to end this war on my terms."
The Catalyst replies, "Then you will die knowing you have failed to save everything you have fought for."
Shepard retorts, "I fight for freedom. Mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I die knowing I did everything I could to stop you."

Everything except actually stopping the Reapers, when the means to do so is right in front of him. The means to choose his own fate was right there. Instead, Shepard let the Reapers choose his and every organics' fate.

Now every space faring race in the galaxy pays the price because Shepard wants to "die free". Nothing could be further from the truth. How does destroying the Reapers deprive Shepard of his freedom. It's completely out of place and makes no sense whatsoever in that situation. It is a betrayal of his lover, his friends, his crew, humanity, and every species he allied and convinced to come to Earth. All these beings came there, followed him into hell and he hung them out to dry.  It's equivalent to exactly what the Reapers wanted: for the Crucible to never have docked in the first place.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 21 août 2012 - 04:14 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

HYR is a realist, not a pessimist. We are optimists. We continue to place blind faith in Bioware. Realistically, I don't see this happening. Atleast under normal circumstances.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 21 août 2012 - 04:09 .

[Conniving_Eagle]

The best current ending is Control, which is Paragon.

[Jadebaby]

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard knows very well that the fleets cannot win conventionally. Shepard is affectively sided with the Reapers even if they have convinced him it's his idea. That pitiful slouched look he sports isn't the look of a guy with high hopes. That's a broken pathetic defeated man.

And the speech is contrary to the situation.

Shepard says, "No, I'm going to end this war on my terms."
The Catalyst replies, "Then you will die knowing you have failed to save everything you have fought for."
Shepard retorts, "I fight for freedom. Mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I die knowing I did everything I could to stop you."

Everything except actually stopping the Reapers, when the means to do so is right in front of him. The means to choose his own fate was right there. Instead, Shepard let the Reapers choose his and every organics' fate.

Now every space faring race in the galaxy pays the price because Shepard wants to "die free". Nothing could be further from the truth. How does destroying the Reapers deprive Shepard of his freedom. It's completely out of place and makes no sense whatsoever in that situation. It is a betrayal of his lover, his friends, his crew, humanity, and every species he allied and convinced to come to Earth. All these beings came there, followed him into hell and he hung them out to dry.  It's equivalent to exactly what the Reapers wanted: for the Crucible to never have docked in the first place.

Shepard using the destroy function deprives the Geth of their freedom. "mine.. AND EVERYONE'S"

The only reason he couldn't stop the Reapers was because we don't have all the puzzle pieces yet.

[Jadebaby]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

The best current ending is Control, which is Paragon.

Until Leviathan gets released

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Then maybe the refuse option is also for you.

Regardless of the result. Shepard stood tall to the Catalyst and outlined exactly what they had always faught for.

Talk is cheap. Outlining things to Microsoft Office isn't what I'd call "standing tall" but an all-time-low.

Refuse might make for a good speech to make if/when I die along with the rest of the galaxy at the hands of the Reapers with no choice to stop it, but that's about where it starts and ends for me.

[AresKeith]

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard knows very well that the fleets cannot win conventionally. Shepard is affectively sided with the Reapers even if they have convinced him it's his idea. That pitiful slouched look he sports isn't the look of a guy with high hopes. That's a broken pathetic defeated man.

And the speech is contrary to the situation.

Shepard says, "No, I'm going to end this war on my terms."
The Catalyst replies, "Then you will die knowing you have failed to save everything you have fought for."
Shepard retorts, "I fight for freedom. Mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I die knowing I did everything I could to stop you."

Everything except actually stopping the Reapers, when the means to do so is right in front of him. The means to choose his own fate was right there. Instead, Shepard let the Reapers choose his and every organics' fate.

Now every space faring race in the galaxy pays the price because Shepard wants to "die free". Nothing could be further from the truth. How does destroying the Reapers deprive Shepard of his freedom. It's completely out of place and makes no sense whatsoever in that situation. It is a betrayal of his lover, his friends, his crew, humanity, and every species he allied and convinced to come to Earth. All these beings came there, followed him into hell and he hung them out to dry.  It's equivalent to exactly what the Reapers wanted: for the Crucible to never have docked in the first place.

the Reapers aka the Starbrat wanted the Crucible to be used

[The Twilight God]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Shepard using the destroy function deprives the Geth of their freedom. "mine.. AND EVERYONE'S"

The only reason he couldn't stop the Reapers was because we don't have all the puzzle pieces yet.

Sacrifices are necessary.

Instead of the geth being sacrificed you sacrificed... um, the geth as well as the humans, the asari, the turians, the salarians, the quarians, the krogan, the volus, the elcor, the hanar, the drell, the batarians, the rachni and the vorcha. Not to mention all space faring species that aren't mentioned.

God forbid you get your hands dirty doing what needs to be done. Funny how you now have more blood on them than ever in Refuse. Shepard is the biggest war criminal in the known history of the galaxy. He betrays everyone who put their faith in him in Refuse, wasting the lives of all those people who sacrificed themselves for nothing thanks to Shepard. 

[The Twilight God]

AresKeith wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard knows very well that the fleets cannot win conventionally. Shepard is affectively sided with the Reapers even if they have convinced him it's his idea. That pitiful slouched look he sports isn't the look of a guy with high hopes. That's a broken pathetic defeated man.

And the speech is contrary to the situation.

Shepard says, "No, I'm going to end this war on my terms."
The Catalyst replies, "Then you will die knowing you have failed to save everything you have fought for."
Shepard retorts, "I fight for freedom. Mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I die knowing I did everything I could to stop you."

Everything except actually stopping the Reapers, when the means to do so is right in front of him. The means to choose his own fate was right there. Instead, Shepard let the Reapers choose his and every organics' fate.

Now every space faring race in the galaxy pays the price because Shepard wants to "die free". Nothing could be further from the truth. How does destroying the Reapers deprive Shepard of his freedom. It's completely out of place and makes no sense whatsoever in that situation. It is a betrayal of his lover, his friends, his crew, humanity, and every species he allied and convinced to come to Earth. All these beings came there, followed him into hell and he hung them out to dry.  It's equivalent to exactly what the Reapers wanted: for the Crucible to never have docked in the first place.

the Reapers aka the Starbrat wanted the Crucible to be used

No
The Reapers would have left the Citadel alone if they wanted the Crucible used..
The Reapers would let the Crucible dock unmolested regardless of EMS if they wanted it used.
The Reapers wouldn't destroy the Crucible it if you fool around and don't pick one fast enough
The reapers would just drag some unwilling soul up there and toss them in the synthesis beam if they wanted it.

Synthesis and Control prongs are Plan B. There is plenty of evidence that they do not want the Crucible to be used. 

[Conniving_Eagle]

The Twilight God wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Shepard using the destroy function deprives the Geth of their freedom. "mine.. AND EVERYONE'S"

The only reason he couldn't stop the Reapers was because we don't have all the puzzle pieces yet.

[Forced] Sacrifices are necessary.

Instead of the geth being sacrificed you sacrificed... um, the geth as well as the humans, the asari, the turians, the salarians, the quarians, the krogan, the volus, the elcor, the hanar, the drell, the batarians, the rachni and the vorcha. Not to mention all space faring species that aren't mentioned.

God forbid you get your hands dirty doing what needs to be done. Funny how you now have more blood on them than ever in Refuse. Shepard is the biggest war criminal in the known history of the galaxy. He betrays everyone who put their faith in him in Refuse, wasting the lives of all those people who sacrificed themselves for nothing thanks to Shepard. 

Seems to be what Bioware thinks.

[AresKeith]

The Twilight God wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

Shepard knows very well that the fleets cannot win conventionally. Shepard is affectively sided with the Reapers even if they have convinced him it's his idea. That pitiful slouched look he sports isn't the look of a guy with high hopes. That's a broken pathetic defeated man.

And the speech is contrary to the situation.

Shepard says, "No, I'm going to end this war on my terms."
The Catalyst replies, "Then you will die knowing you have failed to save everything you have fought for."
Shepard retorts, "I fight for freedom. Mine and everyone's. I fight for the right to choose our own fate. And if I die, I die knowing I did everything I could to stop you."

Everything except actually stopping the Reapers, when the means to do so is right in front of him. The means to choose his own fate was right there. Instead, Shepard let the Reapers choose his and every organics' fate.

Now every space faring race in the galaxy pays the price because Shepard wants to "die free". Nothing could be further from the truth. How does destroying the Reapers deprive Shepard of his freedom. It's completely out of place and makes no sense whatsoever in that situation. It is a betrayal of his lover, his friends, his crew, humanity, and every species he allied and convinced to come to Earth. All these beings came there, followed him into hell and he hung them out to dry.  It's equivalent to exactly what the Reapers wanted: for the Crucible to never have docked in the first place.

the Reapers aka the Starbrat wanted the Crucible to be used

No
The Reapers would have left the Citadel alone if they wanted the Crucible used..
The Reapers would let the Crucible dock unmolested regardless of EMS if they wanted it used.
The Reapers wouldn't destroy the Crucible it if you fool around and don't pick one fast enough
The reapers would just drag some unwilling soul up there and toss them in the synthesis beam if they wanted it.

Synthesis and Control prongs are Plan B. There is plenty of evidence that they do not want the Crucible to be used. 

the Starbrat calls the Crucible a power source, those "choices" were forced to pick are built onto the Citadel which was built by the Reapers, the Crucible gives enough power for those choices. He even calls them its "new Solutions", each ending does the Starbrat wants in their own way.

If the Reapers really didn't want it to used then why does the Starbrat get pissy when you refuse and he sells you Synthesis as the perfect choices because the Crucible gives the Citadel enough power to pull it off. And the fact that a Reaper was wrestling with a Crusier instead of destroying it shows that they was waiting for Shepard to make a choice

[Conniving_Eagle]

"No
The Reapers would have left the Citadel alone if they wanted the Crucible used..
The Reapers would let the Crucible dock unmolested regardless of EMS if they wanted it used.
The Reapers wouldn't destroy the Crucible it if you fool around and don't pick one fast enough
The reapers would just drag some unwilling soul up there and toss them in the synthesis beam if they wanted it."


I'm confused. How so?

[The Twilight God]

AresKeith wrote...

the Starbrat calls the Crucible a power source, those "choices" were forced to pick are built onto the Citadel which was built by the Reapers, the Crucible gives enough power for those choices. He even calls them its "new Solutions", each ending does the Starbrat wants in their own way.

It's plan B. As opposed to the Crucible simply arming autmatically and destroying synthetic life. If someone actually makes it there they can tempt them away from Destroy via indoctrination attempt to pick control (TIM/foolish pride) or synthesis (saren/deus ex machina). And the lastest ending they can simply break Shepard's will altogether and get what they really prefer: for Shepard to sit there and do nothing and hang everyone out to dry.

AresKeith wrote...

If the Reapers really didn't want it to used then why does the Starbrat get pissy when you refuse and he sells you Synthesis as the perfect choices because the Crucible gives the Citadel enough power to pull it off. And the fact that a Reaper was wrestling with a Crusier instead of destroying it shows that they was waiting for Shepard to make a choice

Is this Synthetic Intelligence pissy?  You believe it to be emotional?

There is a critical fail if you fool around. Make no mistake; The Reapers will destroy it.

It can be logically deduced that both of its 2 new options are simply seen as preferrable to destruction. Neither of them represent what the reapers would prefer. In the docking chamber Shepard has the Reapers by the balls and they are simply selling him on something other than their demise.

The follow are excerpts that summarizes the post it's take from. I'm not going to post the whole thsis here.

Control

The Twilight God...

Here is the logical deduction:

1. The Crucible docks, but is not doing anything.
2. Shepard interacts with the prongs.
3. The Crucible arms itself and fires.
4. It is thus inferred that Shepard's interaction with the control prongs was in accordance with the overall contraption's intended purpose.
5. It can thus be further inferred that the control prongs, and by association the entire contraption, were constructed with the intent of interacting with the Crucible.
6. It has been confirmed in the very opener of the segment that the contraptions at eye level are NOT a part of the Crucible.
7. The contraptions are built into and plugged into the Citadel.
8. If the contraptions were built by the Citadel's organic inhabitants, per the Crucible's schematics, it would be known that the Citadel was a component beforehand. That is not the case.
9. The Citadel is of Reaper construction.
10. Conclusion: the Reapers built the Contraption.
11. If the Reapers built a contraption that interfaces with the Crucible, the Reaper must have some technical details on the Crucible in order to have the understanding of how it works in order to build a device tailored to interfacing with the Crucible.

A question emerges: Why would the Reapers build a device of their own volition with the sole purpose of interfacing with the Crucible in order to give a single person the capability to take control of the Reaper Collective?

They wouldn't.

Given what I have observed in regard to the Reapers I cannot formulate a single rational justification for building such a device. I can understand building a mock device to deceive the galaxy into thinking the threat is eliminated.

Synthesis

The Twilight God...

Here is the logical deduction:

1. The Crucible docks, but is not doing anything.
2. Shepard leaps into the beam and an energetic aura engulfs his surroundings.
3. The Crucible arms itself and fires.
4. It is thus inferred that Shepard's presence within the contraption's energy cocktail was in accordance with the overall contraption's intended purpose.
5. It can thus be further inferred that the beveled synthesis array, and by association the entire contraption, were constructed with the intent of interacting with the Crucible.
6. It has been confirmed in the very opener of the segment that the contraptions at eye level are NOT a part of the Crucible.
7. The contraptions are built into and plugged into the Citadel.
8. If the contraptions were built by the Citadel's organic inhabitants, per the Crucible's schematics, it would be known that the Citadel was a component beforehand. That is not the case.
9. The Citadel is of Reaper construction.
10. Conclusion: the Reapers built the Contraption.
11. If the Reapers built a contraption that interfaces with the Crucible, the Reaper must have some technical details on the Crucible in order to have the understanding of how it works in order to build a device tailored to interfacing with the Crucible.
12. Given all of the above, the Crucible did not create new possibilities. It merely allowed for premeditated functionalities to be actualized.
13. Given the above fact, it is inferred that they must already be aware of the viability of Synthesis prior to the Crucible docking if, in fact, all the Crucible does is provide power. As the only limiting factor prior to the Crucible docking is power. Everything else was already built and ready to go.


The question emerges: If the Reapers are familiar with the Crucible design, have built a premeditated means to harness the Crucible's energy and ultimately desire for Synthesis to occur; why would they resist its docking? If it truly is a superior solution, why struggle to prevent it?

The only reason I can fathom is that it is NOT the ideal solution to the Reapers' hypothetical problem or it does not achieve the goals of whatever true (unexplained) objective they may have. It is simply viewed as preferable to the absence of the Reapers altogether.

[The Twilight God]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

"No
The Reapers would have left the Citadel alone if they wanted the Crucible used..
The Reapers would let the Crucible dock unmolested regardless of EMS if they wanted it used.
The Reapers wouldn't destroy the Crucible it if you fool around and don't pick one fast enough
The reapers would just drag some unwilling soul up there and toss them in the synthesis beam if they wanted it."


I'm confused. How so?

How so?

Now I'm confused. The statements are self-evident.