2749 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

It's been years since I read Brave New World, but I think the important point of comparison must be that in that particular dystopian vision, the population was kept happy by the regular ingestion of a hallucinogenic drug called 'soma'. So that's the "deeper understanding" of synthesis.

It's actually slightly encouraging if they indeed saw the ending in these terms. It would be worse if they really thought it was ever so cool to synthesize. But at some point, a set-up like that really does require the punch line. It would be unconscionable to leave the gullible lost in that green haze.

O brave new world, with such people in it...

[Jadebaby]

Interesting SpamBot2000. If that is indeed the comparison, it doesn't sounds too great, as the drug led them to do unspeakable things, no?

@Fedi.St... Yes, I know. But it's not necessarily stubborness. If they do have something *bigger* planned.. People saying "not good, fix it" probably wouldn't be saying that if they knew what was in store.

[SpamBot2000]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Interesting SpamBot2000. If that is indeed the comparison, it doesn't sounds too great, as the drug led them to do unspeakable things, no?

@Fedi.St... Yes, I know. But it's not necessarily stubborness. If they do have something *bigger* planned.. People saying "not good, fix it" probably wouldn't be saying that if they knew what was in store.

Not really, the drug mostly just made them content to live in the system they were living in. They just kept "going on holiday" on it if memory serves. And sex, they had lots of recreational sex. Children were artificially created in "hatcheries" by the State, they thought a family structure was "pornographic".

[Jadebaby]

lol sounds disfunctional to say the least. Much like Synthesis would be.

"Not really, the drug mostly just made them content to live in the system they were living in."

That sounds like synthesis. In some weird shape or form...


Also, DAO is awesome, that is all.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And they did say "If you knew what we have planned you'd hang onto your games forever."

They've been adamant about not changing the endings, and there has to be a reason for it. The ending feels so unfinished, and I don't like it. They've been toying with us about it. There is something bigger planned.

Synthesis is definitely dystopian. The only one who seems happy is EDI who is now alive and is not alone. Oh, and Joker. Forget the propaganda slides. They're exactly the same for all the endings. Look at the cutscenes when it happens. In Destroy and Control, they're cheering victoriously. In Synthesis, they're looking confused and bewildered. Something isn't right. Even the husks look alarmed and frightened. This is the dystopian future. It is not as happy as EDI makes it sound. "Is surrender not better than extinction?" -- Saren Arterius.

And there is no legend save for Control or Synthesis, but "there is no canon" bull****.

I don't think it's the Puzzle because that would involve an ending change. I think it's ME4. We can only speculate, and you can bet that it is going to really be kept under wraps if Hale and Meer are involved in the voice acting -- like done at their homes and no appearances until release.

[liggy002]

I like the idea of a win ending but if I still don't get a Harbinger conversation and battle... I wont be any happier.

[Jadebaby]

What's a "legend" save.

[ElSuperGecko]

Jade8aby88 wrote...
lol sounds disfunctional to say the least. Much like Synthesis would be.

"Not really, the drug mostly just made them content to live in the system they were living in."

That sounds like synthesis. In some weird shape or form...

I think it's telling that we never actually hear from any of the organic races in the Synthesis ending.

EDI does the Extended Cut voiceover, and sounds fairly happy with the way things played out.  But she's always been a fairly naive character, and we've spent a lot of time trying to answer her questions on life, relationships, friendship etc.  She doesn't truly understand what it means to be alive, not from an organic's perspective.

I wonder what the reaction of others in Synthesis would have been.  What Hackett would have said.  Or Wrex.  Or Garrus, or Liara....

[Jadebaby]

What I found most strange was that EDI said in the Synthesis ending that "only now do I feel truly alive"....

Whereas before when I talked to her in London, she told me she already felt alive and that it was my influence.

Sorry,, EDI doesn't need synthesis to make her feel alive.

[inversevideo]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And they did say "If you knew what we have planned you'd hang onto your games forever."

They've been adamant about not changing the endings, and there has to be a reason for it. The ending feels so unfinished, and I don't like it. They've been toying with us about it. There is something bigger planned.

Synthesis is definitely dystopian. The only one who seems happy is EDI who is now alive and is not alone. Oh, and Joker. Forget the propaganda slides. They're exactly the same for all the endings. Look at the cutscenes when it happens. In Destroy and Control, they're cheering victoriously. In Synthesis, they're looking confused and bewildered. Something isn't right. Even the husks look alarmed and frightened. This is the dystopian future. It is not as happy as EDI makes it sound. "Is surrender not better than extinction?" -- Saren Arterius.

And there is no legend save for Control or Synthesis, but "there is no canon" bull****.

I don't think it's the Puzzle because that would involve an ending change. I think it's ME4. We can only speculate, and you can bet that it is going to really be kept under wraps if Hale and Meer are involved in the voice acting -- like done at their homes and no appearances until release.

It's always felt like the game was unfinished, like the ending was unfinished.  I agree.

I honestly do not understrand the logic that leads anyone to choose synthesis; other than a desire not to 'kill' Geth and EDI.  Which I also do not understand.  It seems clear to me that 'death' means something different to an A.I. than it does to an organic.  The Geth have never been anything other than an amalgamation of 'run times'.
Just because Legion kept that particular set of run-times together for so long, does not mean that this is the 'norm' for the Geth. Nor is there any indication that given their new level of sentience, thanks to Reaper upgrades, that the Geth would change the way they operate.  

Starkid has been turning sentients into Reapers for many thousands (millions) of years.  It claims it is not killing us but preserving us in Reaper form. It is not lying. To a machine, preserving the information is ensuring that information is not destroyed.  So Starkid reduces us to goo (DNA / genetic coded info) and stores it in Reaper form; to Starkid, we are not dead, merely 'stored' nothng is loss.

To me it is clear Starkid is not only broken, but the way it experiences reality may preclude it ever understanding 'life' and 'death' from an organic perspective.  There is no reson for Shepard to choose Synthesis, no reason to force synthesis on the universe, no reason to believe, based on Starkids view of realtiy, that Starkid could possibly understand what synthesis would do to organics, no reason, based on the bulk of the game, prior to the last 10 minutes, that explored and hit on the theme of cooperation, teamwork, embracing your differences and finding strength from them, that Shepard woudl choose synthesis.  ME1 the consequnces of a fractious galaxy. ME2 the parable of he krogan and why each clan, though different, brings a unique perspective and strength to the whole, which is lacking when the Krogan fight themselves. ME3 and Javik tells us that the Prothean's homogenized the galaxy, and for that paid the price as it proved to be a weakness that the Reapers exploited.  

Synthesis does not make sense, and if BW is pushing for Synthesis to be 'canon' then I can only conclude that they do so because the next story ARC will be about organics retaking their uniqueness, regaining their freedom.

ME4:Rage against the machine ?

[MAF1994]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

MAF1994 wrote...

Well, to be honest there are a couple of things that, maybe, contradict your hopes:

1) This notepad was made ​​several months before the creation of the ending, contains only a few "sketches" of what would have been the final ending that we've got at March. In that period of time, they would have change many things from the "alpha" version.

The time it took them to make the EC, I can't believe the script changed that much. Plus, if it had the notepad itself wouldn't have applied and therefore wouldn't have been in the final hours app.

2) At the bottom of the foil there is in large letters: "LOTS SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE". This is the final result of all the reasoning in the notepad.

With this, it also works if you start at the bottom and work your way to the top. Leaving "sign of hope" then "Shepard Alive!" As the finished result.

 

Even if they leave something for the DLC, the final result will be the same: an ending like "The Matrix" (SPOILER: Neo fly away after the final call, where He promises that he will do everything necessary to resolve the "problem" of Matrix) this was already an end on its own, and if the Watchosky brothers would not have continued the saga, would have remained a perfect: ""LOTS SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE". Maybe this is the analogy that Casey did with the film. He clearly want (or at least wanted) a fan situation like "The Matrix" ending, but has exaggerated in the concept and in the end he has done everything wrong. The Matrix ending it's F**ing epic, even for a cliffhanger; ME3 ending it's unclear and make absolutely no sense (the original). The EC it was a must. Period.

No, the part of the ending I think he means is before that. When Neo is shot and dies. That is where Casey has ended ME3. Leaving the part where Shepard wakes up and kicks the Reapers asses for dlc. Whether that be symbolically with PT and not having the pieces TO kick their ass. Or whether it be more literal in IT. I think this is the part he means. Also, has anyone seen Brave New World that can make a comparison on that?

3 and last thing) CASEY LOVE THE SPECULATIONS!!!  HAS ADMITTED HIMSELF!! There is a chance out of a hundred that he has changed his mind in these months. Like i said before: even if this situation could lead them to the ruin, Bioware and Casey will not change their minds because of the principle.

Sometimes it's too hard admit their mistakes...

OR, because there is something *bigger* in the works. They don't feel they've made a mistake. If there was something bigger in the works and I was in the know. I, too, wouldn't think they'd made any mistakes either.

The time it took them to make the EC, I can't believe the script changed that much. Plus, if it had the notepad itself wouldn't have applied and therefore wouldn't have been in the final hours app.

I was not referring about the ending of EC. The Final Hours app has been released at the same time to the game, if I remember correctly, so it's obvious that the script was of the original ending and not the EC. And then, I didn't say that they didn't use those notes, but that probably have changed something from version "alpha" of them, and the definitive verision of the script is "the original" ending of ME3.

With this, it also works if you start at the bottom and work your way to the top. Leaving "sign of hope" then "Shepard Alive!" As the finished result.

I don't know how works the arrows system in Canada (or Australia, in your case), but when we Italians see a scheme were all the arrows pointing down, we have to think that at the top there is the beginning and at the bottom there is the ending. Maybe we make a mistake...

OR, because there is something *bigger* in the works. They don't feel they've made a mistake. If there was something bigger in the works and I was in the know. I, too, wouldn't think they'd made any mistakes either.

Even in the weeks before the EC launch, many people on this forum (including me), and around the world, thought that "something bigger" would have been implemented in the EC (War Assets scene, reunion with crew, trilogy choice effect, even the Indoctrination Theory!!) and all of this because of the "silence" of Bioware. In those three months before the EC launch, they made ​​us speculate like mad (perhaps unintentionally) about the content, and then? Which was the result? A bunch of slide image, additional line with the Catalyst and an "alternative" ending made to make fun of us. The only good things have been: the music, the MAJOR (not all) plot hole correction and final crew scene which is very beautiful and sad at the same time. All this just to make an "acceptable" (not "amazing, like as they had promised us) ending. So i say you this: DON'T TRUST OF THE SILENCE OF BIOWARE, they're not hiding anything to us. Maybe they are just continuing with their original plan and maybe all this speculate it's just a "collateral damage" that the fans are doing on their own. Bioware has learned the lessons about this with the "ULTRA-HYPER HYPE" advertising of pre-ME3 launch and they are now proceeding with a low profile. They will not do the same mistake again! It would be too stupid, and they are not stupid!

[saintjimmy43]

^^ I love the puzzle theory, but I can't help but feel this guy's right. Anything they're going to add to the ending now isn't going to be more drastic than the EC, which wasn't that drastic. The quality of Shepard's speech be damned.
But I'm going to stick around until I know for sure because I'm an addict, and Bioware is the only one holding.

[MAF1994]

^^For the last part of your post: I am also an addict of ME universe, and it's for this that in spite of my cynical ideas i continue support the PT. I haven't illusion, but i stll have hope, because Jade has certainly right on one things: until will not come out the last dlc the possibilities still remains very open :-)

[Jadebaby]

MAF1994. What I meant with the notepad was that you don't know what order it was written in. Casey Hudson could have thrown in those arrows after to throw people off.

I did a graph for you...



It works especially well if you look at "Endings - how do they feel?" And then the next part is summarizing the endings.

This would lead one to believe that he started with "lots of speculation from everyone" then build the endings from there up.

[Jadebaby]

I also did this one, for anyone of those interested in categorizing each sentence.



EDit: although looking at the graph now, I somehow think that the "destroy life" ontop of "creates life" is about synthesis also. They seem too isolated together, too intertwined. It would also gives credence to the fact that synthesis is destroying organic life in a sense.

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 28 septembre 2012 - 05:06 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

@ Jade,

thanks for the drawings, that's exactly what i was thinking. The arrows go in the opposite directions. The DLC that's coming out. Leviathan, Omega, everything that we will see is going to be a misdirection. Even the music was a misdirection. They are going to lead us to choosing Synthesis or Control. They are going to convince us that Destroy is the absolute worst choice. They are gong to make us so afraid of what is coming so that we don't choose Destroy. Yet Destroy is the safest and best choice. Oh my god, Casey you crafty SOB.

Something also tells me that the ending was just a bunch of bull****. The ending was dream-like, but it wasn't bull****. If I may try to get into the mind of Casey Hudson for a minute....and speculate....it seems like Casey is a big fan of the Wachowskis. So will the fight be in Shepard's mind against the AI Construct? We've already seen Shepard go into neverneverland in Leviathan. We've heard Harbinger speak http://youtu.be/rYiBWw99hG8?t=4m28s. They said it was noise, and they used part of the noise in Tuchanka, but why was it added in full sequence in the EC to "clarify"? Serve us!

Does Shepard fight the battle against the construct in her mind? Is that where the choices are made? Is this a battle of wills? It seems that this is blatant attempt at indoctrination at first, but now what is going on? In Synthesis the AI Construct takes over Shepard's mind because Shepard surrenders. In Control, the construct shares power. In Destroy, Shepard wins.

This isn't just a battle for the fate of the galaxy. But I'm not sure the battle is over internally. I think she is still fighting. This is an internal battle within Shepard for her own sanity; a battle she must win at all costs. How will we help her? Is the AI still functioning? How will we help her? Do we as new characters have to go in and find her and extract her? Then destroy the AI on the Citadel? Just thinking out loud, I don't think so... but... it would be an interesting first chapter -- we did go into the Geth consensus so it would not be unprecedented.



PS: songs were credits songs for Matrix movies to the unannointed.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 28 septembre 2012 - 06:35 .

[MAF1994]

^Does this prove the IT?

[MAF1994]

@JadeBaby88 Thank you for the drawing, are very detailed! I have to admit: you are much more persistent than I expected in your ideas and this screens demonstrate this in an exemplary way. Compliments! 

I looked good and deep the drawing...and the only thing I can say is that your analis could be work (like mine after all), but we should be in the head of Casey Hudson to really understand the order of the scheme. So I think we'll find out piece by piece, dlc by dlc ecc.

But there is one thing I did not understand: even if the schemes were to follow your path, in the end what can we get? I mean: in the schemes there are no suggestions that there could indicate the development of a dlc like PT, because we already have the "Shepard Alive" and "Signs of hope" (Destroy-high EMS); the "Shepard Essence" and "Hybrid" (Synthesis) and "Reaper-take control" (Control), the crucible device ecc.
 
It seems cyclical, "come un cane che si morde la coda", we say in Italy  (Trd. like a dog chasing its tail)
In short, the question is: Where did you find clues that could indicate something "unexpected" in the future?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I do not believe there will be a successful refuse at the end of the DLC. In the future, the Leviathans will be back. They will try to begin the cycle again, and we'll have to stop them. It is essential we rescue Shepard.

[AresKeith]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I do not believe there will be a successful refuse at the end of the DLC. In the future, the Leviathans will be back. They will try to begin the cycle again, and we'll have to stop them. It is essential we rescue Shepard.

we something better than the Leviathans as the new enemy

[Jadebaby]

Either it's going to be something like Julia is suggesting.. Or the only pieces I found were marked in grey for ambiguous.. Mainly the "Reapers Weakness" part.

[spotlessvoid]

I support this thread and Jade8aby88 for all around awesomeness. Carry on

[Jadebaby]

Puzzle Theory now supports a "no relays exploding" ending.

Edit: Even at 10,000+ EMS the Catalyst will say "your crucible is largely intact" which means it might not be finished, as other people have suggested.

What if the missing component allows the relays to use the energy without destroying them?

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 29 septembre 2012 - 07:18 .

[AresKeith]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Puzzle Theory now supports a "no relays exploding" ending.

Edit: Even at 10,000+ EMS the Catalyst will say "your crucible is largely intact" which means it might not be finished, as other people have suggested.

What if the missing component allows the relays to use the energy without destroying them?

and maybe not completely wipe out the Geth and EDI too

[KENNY4753]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Puzzle Theory now supports a "no relays exploding" ending.

Edit: Even at 10,000+ EMS the Catalyst will say "your crucible is largely intact" which means it might not be finished, as other people have suggested.

What if the missing component allows the relays to use the energy without destroying them?

Through all the dlc hopefully we can get the crucible completely finished. If is stupid how you can get more than 10,000 EMS when the max you need for the "best" ending is 3100.