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The Puzzle Theory [successful refuse]


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#1451
MWMike2011

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DWH1982 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Nup, I'd gladly pay for it.

It would be the best amount of money I would have ever spent on a game, ever.


I hate to say it, but... this.

I'd gladly pay it if it gave me a triumphant ending like ME1 and like what was possible in ME2. It sucks, I shouldn't have to pay for a proper ending to ME3, but at the same time, it means maybe I could have Mass Effect back again.

The fact that Star Brat would still be involved in the endings sickens me, but I think I could learn to overlook it if only the endings felt more like Mass Effect.


I sadly agree with both of these. I just want a satisfying ending, even if it means my Shepard has to die, I just want it to make sense. If I have to pay for it, finally, I will, but I shouldn't have to...

#1452
garrusfan1

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No Shepard cannot die

#1453
Jadebaby

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DWH1982 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Nup, I'd gladly pay for it.

It would be the best amount of money I would have ever spent on a game, ever.


I hate to say it, but... this.

I'd gladly pay it if it gave me a triumphant ending like ME1 and like what was possible in ME2. It sucks, I shouldn't have to pay for a proper ending to ME3, but at the same time, it means maybe I could have Mass Effect back again.

The fact that Star Brat would still be involved in the endings sickens me, but I think I could learn to overlook it if only the endings felt more like Mass Effect.


What if the starbrat was cast back into a more villainous light?

#1454
BansheeOwnage

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

I pictured you saying that in your accent lol :P


Funny, I was doing a sottish accent... lol

need to hear you do that. Posted Image

#1455
BansheeOwnage

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Nup, I'd gladly pay for it.

It would be the best amount of money I would have ever spent on a game, ever.


I hate to say it, but... this.

I'd gladly pay it if it gave me a triumphant ending like ME1 and like what was possible in ME2. It sucks, I shouldn't have to pay for a proper ending to ME3, but at the same time, it means maybe I could have Mass Effect back again.

The fact that Star Brat would still be involved in the endings sickens me, but I think I could learn to overlook it if only the endings felt more like Mass Effect.


What if the starbrat was cast back into a more villainous light?

Fun fact: The Catalyst is listed under the villain section of wikipedia's ME3 page. Posted Image

#1456
Jadebaby

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lol that is a fun fact, but if they cast him as a total villain. IE: The PT comes true and after he goes "So be it" he tries to kill Shepard's LI or something... You know, so it's like "okay, now screw that kid."

I reckon he could be up their with the greatest villains of all time.

#1457
Conniving_Eagle

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol that is a fun fact, but if they cast him as a total villain. IE: The PT comes true and after he goes "So be it" he tries to kill Shepard's LI or something... You know, so it's like "okay, now screw that kid."

I reckon he could be up their with the greatest villains of all time.


Bioware are terrible at writing villains.

#1458
HiddenInWar

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Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol that is a fun fact, but if they cast him as a total villain. IE: The PT comes true and after he goes "So be it" he tries to kill Shepard's LI or something... You know, so it's like "okay, now screw that kid."

I reckon he could be up their with the greatest villains of all time.


Bioware are terrible at writing villains.


I don't trust what it says anyways. It's advocation for synthesis was subtle, but not enough. 

#1459
Conniving_Eagle

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And what a salutary effect it would have on Bioware's reputation if they made the Catalyst a villain!

#1460
Jadebaby

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Look at negative nancy over here?

#1461
Pascal219

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Jade8aby88 wrote... Yes, the MP is very addictive.. Just watch out for those microtransactions!Posted Image lol

It's a good question you asked. I don't know, I just can't help feeling that the RGBR endings are just a bit of a letdown... Like, there's no climax... For a big sci-fi action RPG game like Mass Effect, to end it with all the philosophical mumbo-jumbo and no real climax.. It's just a bit of a letdown. So everytime I think the literal interpretation is correct, there's always something that stops me thinking that way, whether it be from outside evidence (eg: Jessie Houston's interview on the OP), or BSN evidence (stuff found by the IT crowd) or even in-game evidence like Eve's crystal and Garrus' line saying "sometimes blind faith/hope is all we have left."

The pieces are all there, but there's so many of them, taking many different shapes and sizes that it's hard to put them all together, to complete the puzzle...

However, I think if it's true that ALL the writers are on board for the next dlc.. It's a big sign... That would mean there will be a lot of squadmate dialog going on... However I'm hoping it's not the "reveal" dlc, coz I don't want it to be the last one.


Sorry late reply, had a hellish weekend.  

But, yeah, I agree. The ending as a whole feels anticlimatic and even though I expected my Shepard to die, I wanted him to go with a bang. Just look at the suicide mission from ME2, there always was a chance Shepard was going to die there and the whole mission is one great epic climax. Edge of your seat stuff the whole time.  
The contrast between that and ME3's ending is like night and day. 

You're right there is alot of in game evidence to be found, even the catalyst himself says so. You have hope, more than you think. Add that too the statements made by Bioware staff, which should always be taken with a grain of salt, but still the statements are hopeful. :)

Another point I thought was cool which was in Leviathan and probably will be in Omega, why keeping adding war assets? People hated those because they were never used, so why rub the proverbial salt in the wound? 

Though I have to admit the vorcha engineering team picture made me laugh. :lol:

Also, why take back Omega? Aria said it didn't matter as much during ME3 because of the Reapers, if they lost it wouldn't matter where she was. So.. why now? Why take Omega back during the war? Perhaps there is something there that will shed some more light on the endings? Or something other lore related?

I doubt the next DLC will be last one. Jos commented on twitter about the three different redacted subjects they were working on. Assuming at least one of them is multiplayer dlc, that still leaves two singleplayer dlc's they are working on. 

I think we are allowed to be hopefull at this point. ;)

#1462
Jadebaby

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I'm just glad there are more optimistic people around here than just me :)

#1463
CR121691

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Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol that is a fun fact, but if they cast him as a total villain. IE: The PT comes true and after he goes "So be it" he tries to kill Shepard's LI or something... You know, so it's like "okay, now screw that kid."

I reckon he could be up their with the greatest villains of all time.


Bioware are terrible at writing villains.


Saren was terrible?

#1464
Guest_Commander Casanova_*

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It's really hard to be optimistic with some of the things that BioWare has said and done.

I try, though.

#1465
Jadebaby

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CR121691 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol that is a fun fact, but if they cast him as a total villain. IE: The PT comes true and after he goes "So be it" he tries to kill Shepard's LI or something... You know, so it's like "okay, now screw that kid."

I reckon he could be up their with the greatest villains of all time.


Bioware are terrible at writing villains.


Saren was terrible?


Depends who wrote Saren if it was Drew. then Eagle still might have a point.

But Casanova, you have me to cheer you up!Posted Image

#1466
ZarZar726

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So, has anyone played Omega? Do you think that it hurts the theory?

#1467
Sharkey1337

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ZarZar726 wrote...

So, has anyone played Omega? Do you think that it hurts the theory?


I wouldn't say it hurts the theory as you get 200+ in war assets, which would help toward getting to some magical number for a successful Refuse ending.

#1468
MWMike2011

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ZarZar726 wrote...

So, has anyone played Omega? Do you think that it hurts the theory?


I played it, but I don't think it either helps or hurts the theory. Seems more and more like Omega was just thrown together, delicately so, but not really needed to drive the story forward. It was more for assets and the fans that wanted some conclusion to that conversation with Aria from the main game.

#1469
devSin

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Sharkey1337 wrote...

I wouldn't say it hurts the theory as you get 200+ in war assets, which would help toward getting to some magical number for a successful Refuse ending.

The extra war assets are so that you can get the breath scene without having to play multiplayer. (In the release version of the game, you'd need 4,000 or 5,000 EMS, but there were fewer than 7,500 total assets available, making it impossible with the default 50% readiness multiplier.)

Except that they got caught, and now you can get the breath scene in the main game (as of the extended cut), and the extra assets from DLC no longer serve any purpose. There is no secret plan for a successful refuse ending. It's simply the remains of the sad plan they originally had to force you to either buy the DLC or play multiplayer (promoting microtransactions) in order to get the ending where you can pretend that Shepard somehow survived.

Modifié par devSin, 29 novembre 2012 - 05:30 .


#1470
Jadebaby

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devSin wrote...

Sharkey1337 wrote...

I wouldn't say it hurts the theory as you get 200+ in war assets, which would help toward getting to some magical number for a successful Refuse ending.

The extra war assets are so that you can get the breath scene without having to play multiplayer. (In the release version of the game, you'd need 4,000 or 5,000 EMS, but there were fewer than 7,500 total assets available, making it impossible with the default 50% readiness multiplier.)

Except that they got caught, and now you can get the breath scene in the main game (as of the extended cut), and the extra assets from DLC no longer serve any purpose. There is no secret plan for a successful refuse ending. It's simply the remains of the sad plan they originally had to force you to either buy the DLC or play multiplayer (promoting microtransactions) in order to get the ending where you can pretend that Shepard somehow survived.


If this is what's going on I'm copy/pasting this post everywhere! Because if this is true, it's the most insidious and evil crap I have ever heard from a game company. Seriously if this is what's happening, not only am I burning my ME crap, but I'm chucking all my EA **** on their too! Although I only have Battlefield so it's not much Posted Image

#1471
malakim2099

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Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

lol that is a fun fact, but if they cast him as a total villain. IE: The PT comes true and after he goes "So be it" he tries to kill Shepard's LI or something... You know, so it's like "okay, now screw that kid."

I reckon he could be up their with the greatest villains of all time.


Bioware are terrible at writing villains.


I'd argue that lately they are terrible at writing period. But, there were some pretty good villians from KOTOR to DA:O...

Darth Malak
Sun Li, Glorious Strategist
Teryn Loghain
Saren
Sovereign
Harbinger
Arl Rendon Howe

Just to list a few.

#1472
goose2989

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I've been seeing those damn Puzzle Theory banners for months now, and I always figured it was a joke. I'm glad I actually read into this; it's pretty neat. Well done, OP.

#1473
devSin

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

If this is what's going on I'm copy/pasting this post everywhere! Because if this is true, it's the most insidious and evil crap I have ever heard from a game company. Seriously if this is what's happening, not only am I burning my ME crap, but I'm chucking all my EA **** on their too! Although I only have Battlefield so it's not much Posted Image

It's my private theory. Don't burn your games over it or anything. :-)

To this day, they have not acknowledged it as ever being unintentional or a mistake. They denied it for a month (or worse, they accused us of lying and/or simply told us that it really was possible), and yet we kept telling them that the prerelease statements that multiplayer was only an alternative to single-player progression (like Mike's famous comment that "all the same endings and same information" would be accessible through single-player alone) were inaccurate. Finally, they said it was being looked at (after somebody brought it up on the Twitter, of course), and they proceeded to mostly stifle discussion of it (corralling us to a single thread in one of the lesser read forums), and when the extended cut was about to be released, Chris finally released the statement where they merely said they wanted to make it easier (implying that it had somehow been possible before, which is just not true) and were reducing the requirement to be able to experience all the ending variations (which only meant that they reduced the breath scene requirement down to 3,100 EMS).

Based on your game, with a perfect trilogy playthrough, you could get about 7,550 total assets (including the 100 from From Ashes, but none from the iOS games and no multiplayer promotions), and this required an extrememly specific set of choices. For a non-import game, you couldn't get anywhere near that (indeed, without the extra DLC, I'm not sure it's possible without importing even after the change in the extended cut). But Leviathan and Omega have added a fair number of assets, enough to bring people who never played multiplayer over the lower 8,000 asset requirement (you only needed 4,000 EMS if you were able to "save" Anderson), and it's possible any additional DLC might get us closer to 10,000 (I don't know how many the DLC has actually added, since I haven't been playing the game), which was the original base requirement (needed if you didn't get the persuasion option to "save" Anderson).

I wish I could believe otherwise, but it's so blatantly obvious that you cannot get enough EMS to get the breath scene in the original game (Bjorn, the developer who implemented the system, came back the week after release and said it was in fact impossible, and yet the rest of them continued to deny it), I have to conclude that it was intentionally done. A player who didn't want to play multiplayer could get the DLC, and they would eventually get enough EMS to see the breath scene. (The more multiplayer you play, increasing the likelihood of that person purchasing premium packs, the easier it is to achieve the breath scene, to the point where you don't actually have to do anything at all in the campaign beside run through the critical missions.)

Is it true? Maybe not. But they sure as heck have never given me any reason to think otherwise, and it has really started to just feel true over the past few months. (Even if it is true, I don't think it makes them bad people or anything, just that they had a really bad idea—but they should at least acknowledge it was a bad idea so we can trust that something like this won't just happen again for the next game.)

Modifié par devSin, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:00 .


#1474
Jadebaby

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devSin wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

If this is what's going on I'm copy/pasting this post everywhere! Because if this is true, it's the most insidious and evil crap I have ever heard from a game company. Seriously if this is what's happening, not only am I burning my ME crap, but I'm chucking all my EA **** on their too! Although I only have Battlefield so it's not much Posted Image

It's my private theory.

To this day, they have not acknowledged it as ever being unintentional or a mistake. They denied it for a month (or worse, they accused us of lying and/or simply told us that it really was possible), and yet we kept telling them that the prerelease statements that multiplayer was only an alternative to single-player progression (like Mike's famous comment that "all the same endings and same information" would be accessible through single-player alone) were inaccurate. Finally, they said it was being looked at (after somebody brought it up on the Twitter, of course), and they proceeded to mostly stifle discussion of it (corralling us to a single thread in one of the lesser read forums), and when the extended cut was about to be released, Chris finally released the statement where they merely said they wanted to make it easier (implying that it had somehow been possible before, which is just not true) and were reducing the requirement to be able to experience all the ending variations (which only meant that they reduced the breath scene requirement down to 3,100 EMS).


This is very true, and I remember all those threads about it. But I think they were largely over-shadowed by all the ending outcry.

Based on your game, with a perfect trilogy playthrough, you could get about 7,550 total assets (including the 100 from From Ashes, but none from the iOS games and no multiplayer promotions), and this required an extrememly specific set of choices. For a non-import game, you couldn't get anywhere near that (indeed, without the extra DLC, I'm not sure it's possible without importing even after the change in the extended cut). But Leviathan and Omega have added a fair number of assets, enough to bring people who never played multiplayer over the lower 8,000 asset requirement (you only needed 4,000 EMS if you were able to "save" Anderson), and it's possible any additional DLC might get us closer to 10,000 (I don't know how many the DLC has actually added, since I haven't been playing the game), which was the original base requirement (needed if you didn't get the persuasion option to "save" Anderson).

I wish I could believe otherwise, but it's so blatantly obvious that you cannot get enough EMS to get the breath scene in the original game (Bjorn, the developer who implemented the system, came back the week after release and said it was in fact impossible, and yet the rest of them continued to deny it), I have to conclude that it was intentionally done. A player who didn't want to play multiplayer could get the DLC, and they would eventually get enough EMS to see the breath scene. (The more multiplayer you play, increasing the likelihood of that person purchasing premium packs, the easier it is to achieve the breath scene, to the point where you don't actually have to do anything at all in the campaign beside run through the critical missions.)

Is it true? Maybe not. But they sure as heck have never given me any reason to think otherwise, and it has really started to feel true these past few months.


I agree with this, but it leaves me with one last question.

Why, instead of lowering the EMS requirements for all endings... Why not just get rid of galactic readiness instead?

This would allow people to get the "best" ending without MP, and it would be easier for BioWare to do then to change the EMS ratings I would have thought....

goose2989 wrote...

I've been seeing those damn Puzzle Theory banners for months now, and I always figured it was a joke. I'm glad I actually read into this; it's pretty neat. Well done, OP.


Thanks! Considering you thought it was a joke, I'm amazed your opinion could be turned into positive reinforcement, so thanks! :)

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:01 .


#1475
Sharkey1337

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devSin wrote...

The extra war assets are so that you can get the breath scene without having to play multiplayer. (In the release version of the game, you'd need 4,000 or 5,000 EMS, but there were fewer than 7,500 total assets available, making it impossible with the default 50% readiness multiplier.)

Except that they got caught, and now you can get the breath scene in the main game (as of the extended cut), and the extra assets from DLC no longer serve any purpose. There is no secret plan for a successful refuse ending. It's simply the remains of the sad plan they originally had to force you to either buy the DLC or play multiplayer (promoting microtransactions) in order to get the ending where you can pretend that Shepard somehow survived.


Oh I know all about that, I'm just hoping the Puzzle Theory is true and the last DLC will open up a Successful Refuse based on a higher EMS score that the DLC helps you reach. Still irks me to this day that Bioware never apologized for that screwup as you simply couldn't get the breath scene without multiplayer.

Modifié par Sharkey1337, 29 novembre 2012 - 07:01 .