2749 réponses à ce sujet

[Jadebaby]

I really don't like the fact that people say MP is the only redeeming feature of ME3. That's why I *really* would want it to at least impact the SP story by helping Shepard's war effort.

[nightcobra]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I really don't like the fact that people say MP is the only redeeming feature of ME3. That's why I *really* would want it to at least impact the SP story by helping Shepard's war effort.

i was actually hoping to see our promoted mp characters replace normal n7 soldiers in that priority: earth scene where shepard's shuttle is escorted into the forward operating base.

it would be a nice touch at least.

[TheProtheans]

It does help the war somewhat.

Hey Jade, I was thinking about that time you said about the Reapers been in multiple galaxies and well maybe it could work.
The main problem I have with it is that the Reapers could be used a enemies again and we haven't fully explored our own galaxies so we have no business going to others, unless of course we are going their to help the Reapers because we upset the balance in the universe and now greater enemies are showing up.

[Jadebaby]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I really don't like the fact that people say MP is the only redeeming feature of ME3. That's why I *really* would want it to at least impact the SP story by helping Shepard's war effort.

i was actually hoping to see our promoted mp characters replace normal n7 soldiers in that priority: earth scene where shepard's shuttle is escorted into the forward operating base.

it would be a nice touch at least.

Yeah, honestly. I thought they would replace random soldiers standing around on the Citadel. Especially those ones in the Docking Bay that are getting ready to ship out...

TheProtheans wrote...

It does help the war somewhat.

Hey Jade, I was thinking about that time you said about the Reapers been in multiple galaxies and well maybe it could work.
The main problem I have with it is that the Reapers could be used a enemies again and we haven't fully explored our own galaxies so we have no business going to others, unless of course we are going their to help the Reapers because we upset the balance in the universe and now greater enemies are showing up.

I was only half joking about that but yeah, it could work lol.

[Ignis Mors]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I really don't like the fact that people say MP is the only redeeming feature of ME3. That's why I *really* would want it to at least impact the SP story by helping Shepard's war effort.

Sorry if I offended you, Jade. I just say that because I can't play more than a single mission of the SP at a time because I get too irked by  the fact that you literally can't get any of the ME2 exclusives. I've said this before(but not on the forums.) But, in a way ME3 isn't ME3, but ME-1 because it's like ME1 - ME2. 

[clennon8]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

I really don't like the fact that people say MP is the only redeeming feature of ME3. That's why I *really* would want it to at least impact the SP story by helping Shepard's war effort.

Heh.  I'm one of those people, Jade.  And I've never been much into any sort of multiplayer game.

[Ignis Mors]

I know that I don't really care for most online multiplayer, but, that's mainly because it's mostly PVP, and I get frustrated very easily in PvP.
EDIT. 
Allusive, White Noise was pretty good. Don't know why you say your work is terrible.

Modifié par Ignis Mors, 05 janvier 2013 - 05:45 .

[Restrider]

So, I have had an idea how the game could go on.
This is some kind of IT/PT-hybrid since I like both concepts.

First of all, I'd say that the indoctrination/hallucination that I assume the decision chamber scene to be, could be broken by several (maybe all) endings, depending on EMS and earlier choices made. For instance, we haven't seen how the crystal Eve gives us could be used or how the Rachni queen could be involved (not only that little amount of EMS). Shepard, while lying in the rubble in London (classic IT here), is defended by our war assets and maybe the crystal, Rachni Queen, Liara's gift, Shiala and the Feros colonists etc. pp. (basically anything that has mind altering capabilities) could snap us out of the hallucination. Depending on our choices, we lose nearly nothing (high EMS Destroy/Refuse, Eve/Rachni Queen/Shiala/Liara with gift are present), or sacrifices have to be made and maybe even leading to some sort of FailShep like in ME2. This theory is not my creation, others have contributed to it in the IT thread (like Rastlin).

Secondly, I'd like to point out that Puzzle Theory does not equate a conventional victory. In my view, people misuse the term conventional victory. I think the term non-Crucible or non-Catalyst victory should be used instead.

Thirdly, I advise you to remember the conversations with Sovereign on Virmire and Harbinger in the Arrival DLC as well as the end of ME 1.
In the first conversation, Sovereign says "YOU ARE NOT SAREN! YOU TOUCH MY MIND..."
The second conversation looks like a discussion via a holographic interface, but do you think that holo-projectors are present on a remote landing pad on some asteroid? Remember that Shepard had recently been knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact (by ITers usually pointed out as the most likely beginning of the whole indoctrination process).
If we take a look at these conversations, what happens if we assume that Reapers communicate via some form of telepathy rather than via the 22th century equivalence of a telephone booth? We know that they can control their minions from afar, so it wouldn't be such a big leap to assume this.
Now, in the end of ME1, after Saren died (through his own or Shepard's hand) Sovereign took control of him and after killing this Saren/Sovereign hybrid, Sovereign suffered under some sort of feedback that ended killing him. The death of his minion caused this.
Due to these examples, I think it is save to assume that the connection between a Reaper mind and an indoctrination victim works in two directions.

Fourthly, a lot of people in the IT thread think that there is something off about the Crucible. It happens to be a piece of technology with miraculous effects that the races of this cylce are not able to fully comprehend, yet it is strangely easy to understand the plans, its construction consumes a lot of resources, the discovery of the plans happens to be at the best timing and it is believed to be technology left behind by ancient organic races. If you know your lore, these summary of the Crucible should let your alarm bells ringing, since we thought the same about the Citadel and the Relay Network.
Thus, I consider the Crucible in this IT/PT hybrid as a Reaper trap to divert resources into a device that might be used by the Reapers for other means (maybe as a device to power the Citadel to let them jump back to dark space in the end of the harvest).

After these four points, I'd like to depict the underlying concept of my IT/PT hybrid. After making a choice in the decision chamber and assuming you have done enough to let your Shepard be aware of the fact that he is in some form of hallucination/VR, you have to fight your way out of this VR (remember the end of Overlord DLC). During this, Shepard is able to extract crucial information from Harbinger (in classic IT it is assumed that Harbinger is the one deceiving you as the kid) about the origin/nature of the Crucible and then snaps out.
After some mind-melding (remember ME1) to get some order into Shepard's mind, s/he and some scientist/tech experts are able to create a work-around to re-porpuse the Crucible when docked with the Citadel. Then you have to fight your way on to the Citadel (please not another stupid beam...) and once there, you fight along all your Citadel assets to the control room to upload this work-around (decisions like in Suicide Mission are welcome). On the way, you would meet TIM (remember, in IT the whole scenes on the Citadel did not really happen!), who would try to convince you of his ideas and you are actually able to help him, if you wish to do so.
After reaching the controls, you then are able to use the Crucible/Citadel Relay for your porpuses. A common idea (proposed by Blur) is the Dark Citadel in dark space, where the intelligence resides. The fleets would then funnel through the Relay. Awesome final mission starts.

Any thoughts?

[Eryri]

@ Restrider - Very good summary. I would be so happy with something like this.

[jojon2se]

Another possibility for the intended function of the Crucible, as a trap and in addition to misdirection, may be as a mass indoctrination device, that, when coupled with the Catalyst, i.e. Shepard, make humans (catalyst race) flock to be harvested and also facilitates the new reaper's temporary indoctrination field (keeping the human brain goo sedated and happy), during construction.

The idea of repurposing it to power the Citadel relay (if that isn't already what it's really for), would be a logical one - nicer than just trying to use it as a bomb - we do need something to foreshadow there being anything to gain by going through it, though, such as your finding the intelligence there.
(I never liked the idea of there being any sort of master reaper (EDIT: ...and single point of failure..), though. )

It WOULD be VERY interesting, if each (all) of the pivot point paths got you a separate, different "save throw" scenario, to play through.

Modifié par jojon2se, 05 janvier 2013 - 11:53 .

[Jadebaby]

Ignis Mors wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...
I really don't like the fact that people say MP is the only redeeming feature of ME3. That's why I *really* would want it to at least impact the SP story by helping Shepard's war effort.

Sorry if I offended you, Jade. I just say that because I can't play more than a single mission of the SP at a time because I get too irked by  the fact that you literally can't get any of the ME2 exclusives. I've said this before(but not on the forums.) But, in a way ME3 isn't ME3, but ME-1 because it's like ME1 - ME2. 

lol no, you didn't offend me at all. The only times I get offended are when people try to shove their interpretations (as facts) down other's throats.

Ignis Mors wrote...
I know that I don't really care for most online multiplayer, but, that's mainly because it's mostly PVP, and I get frustrated very easily in PvP.
EDIT.
Allusive, White Noise was pretty good. Don't know why you say your work is terrible.

but It's not PvP...... It's co-op PvE.

clennon8 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...
I really don't like the fact that people say MP is the only redeeming feature of ME3. That's why I *really* would want it to at least impact the SP story by helping Shepard's war effort.

Heh. I'm one of those people, Jade. And I've never been much into any sort of multiplayer game.

While I admit I do play MP in other games. That was always one of the things I loved about ME, it was like Bethesda games. I love to have those RPG's to give me a break from all the competetiveness and crap that goes on in MP on other games..

So when I found out ME3 had MP I was devistated. And even to this day (regardless of how good it is) I don't like it. The greater attention BioWare have given to it over SP only reinforces that sadness.

But if it could at least mean something to the story come the end of the dlc cycle. I think that would truly redeem it in my eyes.

[SilentStep79]

that's right Jade, lead them to our Puzzle theory promised land

[Xenite]

I think the whole idea is a bit contrived, I've just accepted the fact that Casey Hudson hosed us.

Personally, I have not bought any of the DLC and nor will I. The ending left me with zero desire, even today to play any of the Mass Effect games again. My wife hasn't touched them either and she spent hundreds of hours on the first two.

We aren't the only ones who have given up on this badly steered franchise.

[Jadebaby]

Restrider wrote...

So, I have had an idea how the game could go on.
This is some kind of IT/PT-hybrid since I like both concepts.

ditto.

First of all, I'd say that the indoctrination/hallucination that I assume the decision chamber scene to be, could be broken by several (maybe all) endings, depending on EMS and earlier choices made. For instance, we haven't seen how the crystal Eve gives us could be used or how the Rachni queen could be involved (not only that little amount of EMS). Shepard, while lying in the rubble in London (classic IT here), is defended by our war assets and maybe the crystal, Rachni Queen, Liara's gift, Shiala and the Feros colonists etc. pp. (basically anything that has mind altering capabilities) could snap us out of the hallucination. Depending on our choices, we lose nearly nothing (high EMS Destroy/Refuse, Eve/Rachni Queen/Shiala/Liara with gift are present), or sacrifices have to be made and maybe even leading to some sort of FailShep like in ME2. This theory is not my creation, others have contributed to it in the IT thread (like Rastlin).

I agree, it's one of those plot lines that just gets completely dropped. The same with how Liara's beacon was but that got put in in EC. You can't argue that not everyone talks to Eve and receives the crystal. Because people can just as easily not invite Liara to her cabin either. Though I suppose that wouldn't stop the fact Liara was building it..

Secondly, I'd like to point out that Puzzle Theory does not equate a conventional victory. In my view, people misuse the term conventional victory. I think the term non-Crucible or non-Catalyst victory should be used instead.

Omg, I'm putting this in the OP! I've been trying to say this for months. And you just did it so much better! Win, pure win. Thank you!

Thirdly, I advise you to remember the conversations with Sovereign on Virmire and Harbinger in the Arrival DLC as well as the end of ME 1.
In the first conversation, Sovereign says "YOU ARE NOT SAREN! YOU TOUCH MY MIND..."
The second conversation looks like a discussion via a holographic interface, but do you think that holo-projectors are present on a remote landing pad on some asteroid? Remember that Shepard had recently been knocked out for two days by a Reaper artifact (by ITers usually pointed out as the most likely beginning of the whole indoctrination process).
If we take a look at these conversations, what happens if we assume that Reapers communicate via some form of telepathy rather than via the 22th century equivalence of a telephone booth? We know that they can control their minions from afar, so it wouldn't be such a big leap to assume this.
Now, in the end of ME1, after Saren died (through his own or Shepard's hand) Sovereign took control of him and after killing this Saren/Sovereign hybrid, Sovereign suffered under some sort of feedback that ended killing him. The death of his minion caused this.
Due to these examples, I think it is save to assume that the connection between a Reaper mind and an indoctrination victim works in two directions.

It wouldn't be telepathy. It would be QEC communication similar to what the Rachni have. Like how Leviathan communicate.
I've always liked the idea that Shep was indoctrinated since Arrival too. And the hologram at the end I always found strange. But if you do it before you do the suicide mission then it's the collector general that appears. Not actually Harbinger. Though that doesn't rule much out because it still is Harbinger speaking to you. It does rule out direct Reaper manipulation.

Fourthly, a lot of people in the IT thread think that there is something off about the Crucible. It happens to be a piece of technology with miraculous effects that the races of this cylce are not able to fully comprehend, yet it is strangely easy to understand the plans, its construction consumes a lot of resources, the discovery of the plans happens to be at the best timing and it is believed to be technology left behind by ancient organic races. If you know your lore, these summary of the Crucible should let your alarm bells ringing, since we thought the same about the Citadel and the Relay Network.
Thus, I consider the Crucible in this IT/PT hybrid as a Reaper trap to divert resources into a device that might be used by the Reapers for other means (maybe as a device to power the Citadel to let them jump back to dark space in the end of the harvest).

I agree with this so much. That's why refusing could be interpretted as sticking to your goal as well. Don't take hand outs from the Reapers...

After these four points, I'd like to depict the underlying concept of my IT/PT hybrid. After making a choice in the decision chamber and assuming you have done enough to let your Shepard be aware of the fact that he is in some form of hallucination/VR, you have to fight your way out of this VR (remember the end of Overlord DLC). During this, Shepard is able to extract crucial information from Harbinger (in classic IT it is assumed that Harbinger is the one deceiving you as the kid) about the origin/nature of the Crucible and then snaps out.
After some mind-melding (remember ME1) to get some order into Shepard's mind, s/he and some scientist/tech experts are able to create a work-around to re-porpuse the Crucible when docked with the Citadel. Then you have to fight your way on to the Citadel (please not another stupid beam...) and once there, you fight along all your Citadel assets to the control room to upload this work-around (decisions like in Suicide Mission are welcome). On the way, you would meet TIM (remember, in IT the whole scenes on the Citadel did not really happen!), who would try to convince you of his ideas and you are actually able to help him, if you wish to do so.
After reaching the controls, you then are able to use the Crucible/Citadel Relay for your porpuses.

Yeah, these suggestions have been made before. I like them just as much now as I did before

A common idea (proposed by Blur) is the Dark Citadel in dark space, where the intelligence resides. The fleets would then funnel through the Relay. Awesome final mission starts.

Isn't that a lot like The Ark forerunner installation from Halo3 ending?

[Ignis Mors]

On the subject of the Citadel having a sister-relay in Dark Space, wouldn't the reapers have been able to use that to activate the Citadel Relay in our galaxy?

[Jadebaby]

jojon2se wrote...

Another possibility for the intended function of the Crucible, as a trap and in addition to misdirection, may be as a mass indoctrination device, that, when coupled with the Catalyst, i.e. Shepard, make humans (catalyst race) flock to be harvested and also facilitates the new reaper's temporary indoctrination field (keeping the human brain goo sedated and happy), during construction.

The idea of repurposing it to power the Citadel relay (if that isn't already what it's really for), would be a logical one - nicer than just trying to use it as a bomb - we do need something to foreshadow there being anything to gain by going through it, though, such as your finding the intelligence there.
(I never liked the idea of there being any sort of master reaper (EDIT: ...and single point of failure..), though. )

It WOULD be VERY interesting, if each (all) of the pivot point paths got you a separate, different "save throw" scenario, to play through.

Yea, this is similiar to what Dorktainian said a few pages back...

dorktainian wrote...
What if Shepard is indoctrinated. That part of the Indoctrination theory follows through…making everything you see a lie. What if everything that happens…..happens. BUT instead of picking a way of tackling the reapers you are instead picking the way the reapers will deal with humanity? They assume Shepard is the best humanity has to offer, so they indoctrinate him, then leave the choice up to him. In that way Mankind chooses it’s own destiny.

DESTROY!
Humanity is utterly destroyed.
CONTROL!
Humanity is turned into a Human Reaper.
SYNTHESIS!
Humanity is made into a collector species.

Well done Commander Shepard. Boned we are. Unless you Refuse.

I like it.

Xenite wrote...
I think the whole idea is a bit contrived, I've just accepted the fact that Casey Hudson hosed us.

Personally, I have not bought any of the DLC and nor will I. The ending left me with zero desire, even today to play any of the Mass Effect games again. My wife hasn't touched them either and she spent hundreds of hours on the first two.

We aren't the only ones who have given up on this badly steered franchise.

These kinds of posts make me sad because I canactually  empathize with that. But I just can't give up on this game and by extention Shepard. Is the ending isn't the only thing upsetting you though?

silentstep79 wrote...
that's right Jade, lead them to our Puzzle theory promised land

Or fantasy land? lol

[Jadebaby]

Ignis Mors wrote...

On the subject of the Citadel having a sister-relay in Dark Space, wouldn't the reapers have been able to use that to activate the Citadel Relay in our galaxy?

No because they have to be in sync. The Protheans disrupted this synchronization via the Keepers because they are the ones that sent the signal. They are right to an extent. There absolutely *must* be a dark space relay. Because you can't just relay to the Citadel from nothing. But whether that dark space relay is another entire Citadel is something a bit different.

[Ignis Mors]

I suppose that could be the case, but why would the reapers make themselves dependent on the keepers when they could have made so there was no way to mess up the synchronization? Or maybe, the race that the keepers were made from messed up the synchronization and for some reason the reapers couldn't fix it, but the keepers could resync it temporarily.

[Jadebaby]

The keepers *were* that way that was suppose to be unbreakable. Organics are harder to corrupt than any set 'timer' or AI guarding it... (lol catalyst).

I guess the Reapers didn't account for the fact that a long-lost Prothean colony (the Reapers never knew about due to the data being destroy when attacking the Citadel), could create a conduit to have backdoor access to a place called the Citadel, which is the Reapers own front door no less. Travelling there after centuries of the Reapers harvest, only to perform highly advanced bio-engineering on the guardians that lived there.

Fair enough oversight I think XD

[jojon2se]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Yea, this is similiar to what Dorktainian said a few pages back...

Well, not quite; I figured Restrider meant that after yoú pick an option, or refuse to, there is a gameplay section, where you have to fight your way back to "life", rather than determining the fate of humanity, and, as you/Dorktainian said, that those would (kind of ironically) be tailored to your choice.

For example:

Refuse:
This could turn out the least interesting, I suppose... You have rejected Reaper doctrine entirely and wake up, Harbinger stands poised to finish you, but something (out of your war assets, perhaps?) distracts him and gives you a chance to slip away and then you have to do some regular battle to get to safety and the beginning of the bulk of the expansion, which is common to all these intros.

DESTROY!
You really do wake up and things seem fine on the surface, but (..and I don't know how they'd pull this off) situations will become difficult, as it gets harder and harder to tell friend from foe. I'm thinking situations a'la: "Stand down Garrus. That's a reaper agent you're protecting and I won't hesitate to kill you to get at it, if I must."
Bad analogy, but kinda:

CONTROL!
Could be in real life, as indoctrinated agent or husk, or in hallucination. Your actions are not what they appear and maybe even the game control scheme gets some annying attention.
Perhaps both this and Destroy could have some sort of sudden "anti"-quicktime events, where you have to do interrupts to prevent Shepard from doing things.

SYNTHESIS!
All illusion - happy place, your loved ones, everything "perfect".
...and some way to puzzle your way out of the Matrix.


The latter three could, or not, have points where you take your gun and pull a Saren/TIM.

Modifié par jojon2se, 06 janvier 2013 - 01:32 .

[CoolioThane]

estebanus wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

estebanus wrote...

lex0r11 wrote...

Nooooooo Jade. I was the one to take the beating in the other thread!

What about my destiny?!

Sorry for the offtopic.

Sorry, I've been gone most of the day, so I don't understand what you're talking about. What happened?

No, more specifically, he was talking to me about this post.

Ugh, for god's sake. Their reaction is just wrong, especially CoolioThane's. He should've been banned together with rifneno.

Lol, really? Still angry I asked you to be less negative?

Don't know about Puzzle Theory. I like it as an alternative to IT if IT isn't true, though I suppose it could work in conjunction depending on how you view it. I'm more inclinced to PT being separate though

Modifié par CoolioThane, 06 janvier 2013 - 01:36 .

[estebanus]

CoolioThane wrote...

Lol, really? Still angry I asked you to be less negative?

Not really. I have other things to worry about than being angry at you. I simply don't agree with your opinions, the way you openly insult others, and how you present yourself in your day-to-day.
If you don't see any problem in the way you've been behaving, that's your own problem. Doesn't justify it, though.

Modifié par estebanus, 06 janvier 2013 - 02:15 .

[Jadebaby]

jojon2se wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Yea, this is similiar to what Dorktainian said a few pages back...

Well, not quite; I figured Restrider meant that after yoú pick an option, or refuse to, there is a gameplay section, where you have to fight your way back to "life", rather than determining the fate of humanity, and, as you/Dorktainian said, that those would (kind of ironically) be tailored to your choice.

For example:

Refuse:
This could turn out the least interesting, I suppose... You have rejected Reaper doctrine entirely and wake up, Harbinger stands poised to finish you, but something (out of your war assets, perhaps?) distracts him and gives you a chance to slip away and then you have to do some regular battle to get to safety and the beginning of the bulk of the expansion, which is common to all these intros.

DESTROY!
You really do wake up and things seem fine on the surface, but (..and I don't know how they'd pull this off) situations will become difficult, as it gets harder and harder to tell friend from foe. I'm thinking situations a'la: "Stand down Garrus. That's a reaper agent you're protecting and I won't hesitate to kill you to get at it, if I must."
Bad analogy, but kinda:

CONTROL!
Could be in real life, as indoctrinated agent or husk, or in hallucination. Your actions are not what they appear and maybe even the game control scheme gets some annying attention.
Perhaps both this and Destroy could have some sort of sudden "anti"-quicktime events, where you have to do interrupts to prevent Shepard from doing things.

SYNTHESIS!
All illusion - happy place, your loved ones, everything "perfect".
...and some way to puzzle your way out of the Matrix.


The latter three could, or not, have points where you take your gun and pull a Saren/TIM.

I love this idea, but ultimately it would just be too many variables for them to do. And even if they could, there's no way we'd get any other variables on top of that. For instance our indiviidual war assets or choices from previous games

@coolioThane, that post is like a day or two old. Regardless thank you for at least contributing

[jojon2se]

Jade:

Possibly.

I'm just thinking a single, relatively short, mission (each), though.
Everything after these "origins" would be (almost) exactly the same for them all and that's where other stuff would come in.
It could be seen as diminishing the severity of your choice, however. :7

Modifié par jojon2se, 06 janvier 2013 - 02:32 .

[Ignis Mors]

jojon2se wrote...

Jade:

Possibly.

I'm just thinking a single, relatively short, mission (each), though.
Everything after these "origins" would be (almost) exactly the same for them all and that's where other stuff would come in.
It could be seen as diminishing the severity of your choice, however. :7

It could be seen as diminishing the severity, but it would be better than what we got.