84 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonoru]

Well of course it doesn't for me.

I don't consider it canon. In my ME3, Shepard died while watching the Citadel opening alongside Anderson.

[MegaSovereign]

wantedman dan wrote...

Interesting hypothesis, OP.

[sth128]

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Problem is that Crucible isn´t prothean technology [...] then we would need some kind of beacon which would be created by Protheans themselves for this purpose...

Uh no. The archive on Mars was of Prothean origin and there was no beacon. The computer on Thessia is of Prothean origin and there was no beacon. The beacon is one form of Prothean communication. The idea is that Prothean can communicate via thoughts and touch. The Crucible isn't Prothean design but I doubt it has no Prothean technology. Every cycle added to the Crucible design. Vendetta said so himself.

... Protheans would made it more understandable or less artistic - just push tha button and blew them out of space...

Why? The Protheans meant for the Crucible to be used by themselves. They didn't add to the Crucible design so that they can fail and let the next cycle take over. If a stasis pod requires watching 2 streams of memory that can only be interpreted by someone with the Cipher, I don't see it so bizarre that the Crucible is activated by virtual interaction.

Catalyst himself pressent as Reaper agent which is more fitting into IT or DT, I doubt that Protheans would start worship these which stay behind their exticntion unless they would be indoctrinated...

That's your interpretation. To me the Catalyst presented itself as the overwhelming inevitability that organics would find conflict with synthetics. It's Shepard's self-doubt telling him that there's no victory and Reapers are the only solution.

I don't know where you got the idea that Protheans are worshiping the Reapers. I certainly didn't say that.

[dreman9999]

This is the indoctrination theory all over again.

[sth128]

dreman9999 wrote...

This is the indoctrination theory all over again.

No. You didn't read my first post, or you have a very strange interpretation of my words.

[Ice Eyes]

So Shepard's mind just pulls the idea about why the Reapers were created out of nowhere? Seems legit.

[cyborg2501]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

sth128 wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

While this is all rather interesting, it renders the refusal ending the very epitome of fail and makes all of the Catalyst's expository dialogue pointless.

When was the refusal ending not an epitome of fail? Your forces are wiped out and the Cycle continued. The collective knowledge and essence of humans, Turians, Asari, etc. are turned into a new Reaper and then destroyed by the next Cycle.

And the Catalyst, along with all its dialogue, have been the focus of hatred by those who dislike the ending. Look around the forum and you'll see dozens of threads claiming "the ending would be 100 times better w/o the Catalyst".

My hypothesis aims to achieve that goal by offering a different interpretation instead of simply denying the events that happened in the game.

Previously, refusal was the rejection of the Catalyst based on the abhoration of compromise with the Reapers. Noble, yet ultimately foolish. In this theory, Shep basically goes full on moron and says "LOL, NOPE" as he tricks himself into rejecting his only shot at defeating the Reapers.

Your second point is a matter of subjectivity and still does nothing to remove the Catalyst or his dialogue. It instead just turns it into clutter.

It wouldn't really be tricking himself into rejecting, it would just be refusing to use the Crucible as a tool to remove the Reaper threat. Granted without additional DLC that idea winds up costing him the war, but if other options are made apparent by new DLC than who knows

[sth128]

Ice Eyes wrote...

So Shepard's mind just pulls the idea about why the Reapers were created out of nowhere? Seems legit.

What, Shepard's mind can't speculate?

[inversevideo]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

While this is all rather interesting, it renders the refusal ending the very epitome of fail and makes all of the Catalyst's expository dialogue pointless.

What Leonardo said!

When you refuse, CATY drops all pretense of being a dead child ghost and gets all Reaper.

It is an interesting theory, but applicable only if you need a new way to head-canon the current ending.

Otherwise, what Bioware gave us is all that there is. 

[sth128]

inversevideo wrote...

It is an interesting theory, but applicable only if you need a new way to head-canon the current ending.

And IT exists because there's no need to head-canon the current ending? Everyone accepts the current endings as is without question or criticism?

Well silly me, here I am thinking some people might not have liked the Star Child or the endings, when all along it's loved by all!

[Ice Eyes]

sth128 wrote...

Ice Eyes wrote...

So Shepard's mind just pulls the idea about why the Reapers were created out of nowhere? Seems legit.

What, Shepard's mind can't speculate?

 True

So how does Synthesis work?

[dreman9999]

sth128 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

This is the indoctrination theory all over again.

No. You didn't read my first post, or you have a very strange interpretation of my words.

It basicly is the indoctriantion theory. Real, how does shepard even know how to use the crusible if everything is just based in his head?

[dreman9999]

sth128 wrote...

Ice Eyes wrote...

So Shepard's mind just pulls the idea about why the Reapers were created out of nowhere? Seems legit.

What, Shepard's mind can't speculate?

Oh, god.....You don't make sense at all. How does Shepard even know how the crucible works? What makes him think jump intp a firy beam going casue synthesis?

This theory has a bunch of holes.

[CrutchCricket]

Interesting. I have my own version of this for maximum trolling of Bioware's "art".

[CrutchCricket]

dreman9999 wrote...
This theory has a bunch of holes.

No ending without sacrifice, no ending without holes.

Behold!

[sth128]

Ice Eyes wrote...

So how does Synthesis work?

It works exactly as before. My hypothesis does not require any mechanical changes to the ending, only the activation sequence.

As a side note, Synthesis might work "differently" depending on how you interpret it achieves its goals. To me Synthesis doesn't actually add Shepard's DNA to every life form. It is simply an extension of the Control ending. Instead of just controlling the Reapers by rewriting their code, the Synthesis bubble actually creates an unquantifiable amount of nanites and spread them throughout the galaxy.

These nanites, when come into contact with life forms (organic or synthetic), analyze and modify its existing DNA (or programming, in the case of synthetics). The nanites are capable of self-replication and adaptation so that when new life forms evolve, they will also be affected.

Existing beings such as humans and Asari will simply gain certain abilities like access to all Reaper knowledge. Shepard's ideology of unity and peace (or punching journalists) will be a part of the new way of thinking inherent to those affected.

[sth128]

dreman9999 wrote...

Oh, god.....You don't make sense at all. How does Shepard even know how the crucible works? What makes him think jump intp a firy beam going casue synthesis?

This theory has a bunch of holes.

LOL you really didn't read my post. (Or use the spelling check, seriously it comes with every browser now. Just turn it on, it's not hard.)

Shepard didn't jump into a fiery beam. Neither did he grab hold of two charged pillars or shoot the crap out of a power conduit.

Seriously read my original post before you start yelling "holes".

Shepard chose in his mind, then the Prothean tech executed his choice. Shepard was lying there unconscious the entire time. His actions were virtual.

Think of it this way, there are technologies in existence now that allow you to control robotic arms by thinking. In your head you are thinking that you are moving the arm, and the computer interprets this thought as "move the arm" and does it for real.

"You thought about destroying us". Shepard thought about destroying the Reapers, Shepard thought about controlling them, and Shepard thought about some kind of compromise through understanding. These thoughts are translated by the Prothean tech which then fires the Crucible to best achieve such a goal.

Modifié par sth128, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:02 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Sure, why not if it makes you feel better... but what does it actually change? I don't quite see that.

My hypothesis eliminates the inconsistency between previous games and this one since nothing is really controlling the Reapers and the Catalyst really is just the Citadel, and not a translucent kid living there

What inconsistencies? And before you say "Godchild could have opened the Citadel"... you don't know that. You don't know what Godchild can and cannot do. Just because it made the Reapers doesn't mean it can assume direct control of them.

All insanities spouted by the Catalyst are just the inner conflicts of an unconscious mind exhausted from war and injury.

Rather than the Reaper boss trying to trick, confuse or drive Shepard insane? What does it *change*?

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:07 .

[sth128]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

but what does it actually change? I don't quite see that.

My hypothesis eliminates the inconsistency between previous games and this one since nothing is really controlling the Reapers and the Catalyst really is just the Citadel, and not a translucent kid living there. All insanities spouted by the Catalyst are just the inner conflicts of an unconscious mind exhausted from war and injury.

Furthermore, there is no secret room on the bottom of the Citadel tower with three retractable catwalks just waiting for someone to dock a Crucible. The collective efforts of the Cycles before us did not forget to include an activation switch and instead relied on its user shooting up the place. The hypothesis is not as extreme as to disclaim the existence of everything (ie. IT), but not as naive as to take everything at its face value.

Or TL:DR version:

The Catalyst no longer exists. The Reapers are not controlled by a star child living in the Citadel. The Crucible doesn't need someone to shoot things or electrocute themselves to activate.

As a (possibly negative to some) side effect, we no longer know the true purpose of the Reapers. Whatever the Catalyst said, it was just an amalgamation of Prothean tech and Shepard's own experience.

[Jadebaby]

Problem is that the Catalyst supposedly knows about the Reapers motivations and origins. If it was just a prothean link to the crucible. This information about Reaper insight wouldn't be there.

[sth128]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

you don't know that. You don't know what Godchild can and cannot do. Just because it made the Reapers doesn't mean it can assume direct control of them.

Right... And just because I built a car from scratch and understand all the necessary aerodynamics and combustion theories behind such a creation doesn't mean I can drive it.

Because when you understand something so well that you can create it, the most likely scenario is that you can't use it.

[sth128]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Problem is that the Catalyst supposedly knows about the Reapers motivations and origins. If it was just a prothean link to the crucible. This information about Reaper insight wouldn't be there.

Neither would the control pillars and power conduits. It's part of Shepard's knowledge and experience manifested in the image of the child.

Vigil told Shepard that perhaps the Reapers use us as slaves or resources. Javik told Shepard that machines will always be different from us and that we should throw them out the airlock.

These ideologies and suggestions come together with Shepard's fears and doubts to create the stuff the Catalyst said. Just as Shepard's determination to destroy the Reapers created a conduit he can "destroy" to destroy the Reapers.

(Yo dawg I heard you wanted to destroy the Reapers so I imagined a conduit you can destroy so you can destroy the conduit to destroy the reapers)

Modifié par sth128, 13 juillet 2012 - 08:20 .

[sth128]

ASSUMING DIRECT BUMP!

[Gabylan001]

is quite interesting, not bad

[AlexMBrennan]

Right... And just because I built a car from scratch and understand all the necessary aerodynamics and combustion theories behind such a creation doesn't mean I can drive it.

Proof by analogy is not a valid form of proof. How about this:

I have created a number of scripts running on my server for various maintenance tasks. However, I cannot directly influence their behaviour - if I need to change what they're doing, the only way to do so is to kill them and make new ones. Now what do we do?

Because when you understand something so well that you can create it, the most likely scenario is that you can't use it.

I never said it was a likely scenario. I did, however, say that it's not inconceivable. That means that, technically, it's not an "inconsistency between previous games"