84 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

Hey, all due respect and all, but it seems pretty closely related to... IT basically. Only it doesn't go deep enough to root out the spacemagic. But kudos for fighting the good fight.

[Ieldra]

Very interesting post, OP. If you, as I do, like the options for the final choice but would like to do away with the Catalyst as this god-like pseudo-antagonist figure, this is something to think about. One question though: How does Shepard come to know about the information the Catalyst gives her about the Crucible and the three options? It must come from somewhere, it can't come all from within Shepard's mind.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 14 juillet 2012 - 10:04 .

[Veneke]

sth128 wrote...

TL:DR version:

The Catalyst room we see at the end is a manifestation from Shepard's mind interfaced with Prothean technology they added to the Crucible. The Catalyst is the personification of Shepard's doubts and fears.

Interesting.

Also, I lol'd at your sig. Just sayin'

[im commander shep]

I have to say this theory does make a little sense and I like it. The only thing which does not make sense would be that dose this not imply shepard is potentially alive with all three main endings as he was never turned into husk or dissolved by the green synthesis beam.

It still does not explane everything and we are still stuck with the green space magic that is DNA changing synthesis.

Modifié par im commander shep, 14 juillet 2012 - 10:17 .

[RenegonSQ]

This is the same thing as the IT, just a twist IMO. But I am a believer of the IT, therefore I wouldn't count this out

[sth128]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Right... And just because I built a car from scratch and understand all the necessary aerodynamics and combustion theories behind such a creation doesn't mean I can drive it.

Proof by analogy is not a valid form of proof. How about this:

I have created a number of scripts running on my server for various maintenance tasks. However, I cannot directly influence their behaviour - if I need to change what they're doing, the only way to do so is to kill them and make new ones. Now what do we do?

I hope you aren't administering any servers or web sites. Even people who took basic programming know that you don't just "make new ones" every time you want to change something.

You take the existing script, you debug / improve / change it, then you upload it.

My god if General Ford took your approach, they'd have to reinvent the wheel every time they want a new model. You put forth a logical implausible scenario in your original post. Just admit it. If you don't agree with my hypothesis then submit concrete proof to the contrary.

Saying "no he only created everything, he has no control" is just stupid. Especially when the Catalyst specifically said "I CONTROL THE REAPERS".

Modifié par sth128, 14 juillet 2012 - 01:09 .

[SpamBot2000]

Arcian wrote...

What's with you people and your perverted obsession with "IT WAS JUST A DREAM/HALLUCINATION?!?!?!"-plot devices?

Sincere desire to help improve ME3?

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 14 juillet 2012 - 01:14 .

[sth128]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Hey, all due respect and all, but it seems pretty closely related to... IT basically. Only it doesn't go deep enough to root out the spacemagic. But kudos for fighting the good fight.

It is nothing like IT. IT specifies that none of the events actually happened after Shepard is blasted by Harbinger. IT DENIES everything by positing that EVERYTHING IS FAKE. The husks are fake, Marauder Shields is fake, Anderson is fake, and the Crucible never dock. Everything is just a dream in which Shepard is battling indoctrination.

I'm saying IT'S ALL REAL. EVERYTHING HAPPENED. It's just the Catalyst dialogue and the Crucible activation sequence occurred in a Prothean tech-enabled virtual reality after Shepard passed out. THERE IS NO INDOCTRINATION in my hypothesis.

IT attempts to deny the ENDING CHOICES. My hypothesis attempts to reconcile what the Catalyst said and what Sovereign and Harbinger said. Additionally, my hypothesis attempts to reconcile the fact that the Crucible is activated by incredulous processes such as electrocution, track & field, and shooting up the place.

The only "similarity" there is between my scenario is the IT is that they both interpret the last 15 minutes or so of the game from concepts beyond just what we see and hear.

My hypothesis does not conflict with the EC content, while IT does.

Modifié par sth128, 14 juillet 2012 - 01:28 .

[sth128]

Arcian wrote...

sth128 wrote...

[entire article]

What's with you people and your perverted obsession with "IT WAS JUST A DREAM/HALLUCINATION?!?!?!"-plot devices?

What's with you people and your perverted obsession with "QUOTE EVERYTHING BUT NOT ACTUALLY REFER TO ANY OF IT!?!?"-forum posts?

[sth128]

RenegonSQ wrote...

This is the same thing as the IT, just a twist IMO. But I am a believer of the IT, therefore I wouldn't count this out

This is not IT. There is no indoctrination in my hypothesis. An Asari is not a human with blue paint. To say as such would be ignorant. You are just me with different genes, so maybe we are "the same thing, just a twist".

[sth128]

im commander shep wrote...

I have to say this theory does make a little sense and I like it. The only thing which does not make sense would be that dose this not imply shepard is potentially alive with all three main endings as he was never turned into husk or dissolved by the green synthesis beam.

It still does not explane everything and we are still stuck with the green space magic that is DNA changing synthesis.

No. Shepard dies in my hypothesis just as he dies in the stock Bioware endings. In high EMS destroy, the neural interface disconnects and Shepard "wakes up". But that has more to do with the degree of injury sustained prior to the entire sequence, which my hypothesis does not alter.

I don't think Shepard is ever turned into a husk in any ending... As for my view on the mechanics behind Synthesis, I addressed it above in a previous posting. I won't go into my view on the ethics behind Synthesis here. Suffice to say I am not a fan.

If you would like to point out ambiguities that's not addressed in my hypothesis, I can take a crack at incorporating them into the explanations.

[sth128]

Ieldra2 wrote...

It must come from somewhere, it can't come all from within Shepard's mind.

Yes and no. Like I said before, everything the Catalyst said is just a regurgitated version of what Shepard has learned, suspected, seen, and heard. He learned from ME2 that Reapers harvest us to make new ones. He learned from Vigil that Reapers control the Citadel. Javik has repeatedly told Shepard that machines are not to be trusted. And despite Shepard's best efforts, the Quarian - Geth relations are tenuous at best. Tali said so herself, that there's too much bad blood for them to accept each other as equals right away.

I said the Catalyst is a manifestation of Shepard's fears and doubts. When someone is clouded by fears and doubts, they tend to convince themselves that some things "must be". People invent ideas and reasons in their heads to reassure themselves that not going forward is okay.

Shepard is under a lot of stress. After the events on Thessia, Shepard's will certainly have been swayed, if just a little. He more or less conjured up the explanations given by the Catalyst as a way to say to himself "the Reapers have a reason, I have not just sacrificed everything to stop something with no purpose".

[Tyramius Zhan]

To sth128 - thanks for staying on this and for following up with great clarifications. Too many people drop a post and fly away and the topic just ends up like a most of the clutter on the boards. As I implied early on, I am a huge fan of this theory and glad you took the time to post it and stick with it.

Personnally, I would love to see this get stickied so it stays around at the top and continues to grow and gain steam. IT started similiar and gained huge audience. If this gained huge audience - who knows, maybe Bioware would "adopt" it in a sense since, like I thought was clear from beginning and you have clarified for others, it does not conflict with the EC!

[sth128]

And thank you for reading everything.

My hypothesis was really just designed to explain away the odd Crucible activation mechanisms. I mean, what if Shepard had been a Volus? You think he could have reached those Control pillars?



LOL...

[Tyramius Zhan]

Ha ha! I am just picturing my Adept as a Volus -the image in my head keeps popping up with that Volus in ME2 on Illium - "I am a biotic GOD!", then he stumbles over himself...

Ah well, good times. Now back to scanning the boards for the newest IT/anti-IT wars, why <fill in the blank> is the best and everyone else can go screw...and oh yeah - absolutely zippo from Bioware on anything as they let the BSNers rage, flame out, and eventually "accept" the unfulfilled potential they have forced on all of us...

[Dark_Caduceus]

sth128 wrote...

TL:DR version:

The Catalyst room we see at the end is a manifestation from Shepard's mind interfaced with Prothean technology they added to the Crucible. The Catalyst is the personification of Shepard's doubts and fears.

Go ahead and find evidence to support your assertion.

[Bill Casey]

Arcian wrote...

What's with you people and your perverted obsession with "IT WAS JUST A DREAM/HALLUCINATION?!?!?!"-plot devices?

For some reason, the decision chamber is a non-literal evironment...
These are attempts to explain why everything's metaphorical and dreamlike...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 juillet 2012 - 02:36 .

[MetioricTest]

Doesn't make sense.

Why would Shepard's mind mixed with Prothean tech create a fake character which proceeds to instead of just neutrally explain the options, call itself the leader of the Reapers and then have strong preference in the actions it offers? In the Catalyst's mind Synthesis> Control > Destroy > Reject.

And what about the elevator? We as a player clearly see it pull Shepard up. Then clearly see Shepard wake up (the Catalyst tells him to) Shepard is clearly unconscious and then woken up. How does that add up? Unconscious Shepard dreamed he was unconscious and raised by an elevator without noticing?

[sth128]

There's no evidence. If there was actual evidence then it'd be a working theory. And what about the elevator? Sure we see him wake up, but we also see the Catalyst appearing as a child from Shepard's nightmares. We also hear Shepard's voice, both male and female. We also see images of Anderson shooting the power tube, TIM grabbing the control pillars, and flashes of aftermath of the Crucible detonation.

The fact is, Shepard passed out, then a bright light fills the screen. We see and hear a lot of things that do not make sense either way. My hypothesis provides a possible explanation for those things.

Why would Shepard's mind create a fake character? Why would the Catalyst take the form of a child?

Why didn't Hackett continue calling for Shepard on the comm after he passed out? If we as players are seeing what's really happening, shouldn't Hackett continue to talk to Shepard until he gets a response?

What, the entire galaxy is at stake but Hackett gives up after not getting a response twice?

"Shepard? Shepard! Oh well I guess he's not there, let's just keep shooting at the Reapers and pretend everything will work".

[MegaSovereign]

im commander shep wrote...

I have to say this theory does make a little sense and I like it. The only thing which does not make sense would be that dose this not imply shepard is potentially alive with all three main endings as he was never turned into husk or dissolved by the green synthesis beam.

It still does not explane everything and we are still stuck with the green space magic that is DNA changing synthesis.

Perhaps his mind is destroyed in both the Control/Synthesis ending.

[sth128]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Perhaps his mind is destroyed in both the Control/Synthesis ending.

That's what I hypothesized. In Control and Upload, the link was never severed and all of Shepard's consciousness and memories are directly uploaded to the AI / nanites.

In Destroy, the link is severed after the Crucible fired. If you have a high EMS, Shepard is "downloaded" back into his body and he wakes up (next to Anderson and TIM's body).

[lietk12]

I really like your hypothesis, sth128. It's very conceivable that Shepard would construct a boy that he failed at saving to symbolize all his self-doubts, especially since the boy was a recurring motif in his earlier dreams. With those dreams, Shepard explicitly interpreted the boy as a symbol of his self-doubts, by asking, "what if I don't succeed?" after waking up. He's been trying to ignore these self-doubts throughout the plotline, but they kept popping up in his dreams, where he couldn't run away from them. Now he's in a similar mental state via his unconscious, which has been uplinked to the Prothean interface for the Crucible. So of course it makes sense that his self-doubts would show up again, in the same form as previously, to question him. Shepard's just reusing a motif that already appeared several times in his unconscious. The Prothean interface may be feeding him information/queries, and Shepard is interpreting them through the lens of selfdoubtsboy because the boy took his attention first, before the Prothean interface informed him of the options for using the Crucible.
The selfdoubts boy calls himself the leader of the Reapers because that's what he (and they) symbolize to Shepard: hopelessness and the futility of trying to act; Shepard probably remembered Harbinger repeatedly saying stuff like, “These attacks are pointless.” So of course Shepard's self-doubts-symbolized-as-a-boy wouldn't present the options neutrally, but instead pessimistically (i.e. "maybe bio and machine life aren't good enough to survive; what would this mean for each of the possible choices?").

Also, it's very possible for Shepard to dream/imagine that he's waking up. I've occasionally dreamed that I was waking up and turning off the (beeping in reality) alarm clock in the mornings before actually waking up and turning off the alarm clock. Anyways, the elevator itself could be symbolic of a "loading" routine carried out by the Prothean interface, like a temporary uploading of Shepard's consciousness. Shepard, while he's not able to do anything with the interface, would see himself as unconscious on the elevator. And once the interface and his mind are ready, he thinks he wakes up, because that's what makes sense – 
when we're unconscious/asleep, we can't act or trigger Crucibles; when we wake up, we can act and make decisions that have real impact. Shepard could simply be filling in the gaps of the Prothean interface with his own unconscious.

Modifié par lietk12, 23 juillet 2012 - 05:19 .

[MetioricTest]

There's no evidence. If there was actual evidence then it'd be a working theory. And what about the elevator? Sure we see him wake up, but we also see the Catalyst appearing as a child from Shepard's nightmares. We also hear Shepard's voice, both male and female. We also see images of Anderson shooting the power tube, TIM grabbing the control pillars, and flashes of aftermath of the Crucible detonation.

The fact is, Shepard passed out, then a bright light fills the screen. We see and hear a lot of things that do not make sense either way. My hypothesis provides a possible explanation for those things.

Exactly. The fact we see the elevator + the Catalyst BEFORE Shepard wakes up proves they exist.

You can't deny this fact by saying "there are other plot-holes." The player experiences  and is shown things Shepard is unaware of. Then Shepard is literally woken up by the Catalyst.

This is not Shepard's mind.

[Bill Casey]

MetioricTest wrote...

Then Shepard is literally woken up by the Catalyst.

No he isn't...
The Catalyst says Wake up, but Shepard is already on his hands and knees looking around...

MetioricTest wrote...

Exactly. The fact we see the elevator + the Catalyst BEFORE Shepard wakes up proves they exist.

You
can't deny this fact by saying "there are other plot-holes." The player
experiences  and is shown things Shepard is unaware of.

Also, we don't see the Catalyst before Shepard does...
We see Shepard look up, then we see the Catalyst...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 23 juillet 2012 - 05:45 .