49 réponses à ce sujet

[ScriptBabe]

 I understand that gaming companies don't know which games are going to be a huge hit.  That still doesn't excuse the fact that clearly no one had figured out the ultimate solution to Mass Effect before they ever began writing the first game.  You can plot as if it's going to last through multiple games.  We do that all the time when we create a television show or a novel series.

It was also so clear from the Tali adventure in Mass Effect 2 that dying stars and dark energy were going to be part of this finale.  But all that got dropped when they brought in one of the more awkward and obvious Deus Ex Machina's ever seen in a work of fiction.

As I've pointed out in a blog post in any work of fiction you tell the readers right up front what you're going to deliver.  You know Harry is going to face Voldemort, you know Frodo will have to deal with the ring.  What they told us through two and three quarters games is that you will defeat the Reapers.  Unity, and healing old wounds is a huge theme throughout all the games so the efforts you make in ME3 to craft this alliance are very satisfying.  And then it means nothing because suddenly there is a Star Child.

I understand that players may select different endings.  Please take a look at Dragon Age: Origins to see how it was handled well.  You can go for self-sacrifice, you can sacrifice another -- Alistair or Loghain, you can take the deal with Morrigan.  Happy endings, sad endings, ethically challenged endings, but you can craft an ending appropriate to your vision of your warden.  None of that was evident in the ending of Mass Effect 3, and they failed to live up to the promise they made from the first game.

Also, you can't bring your ultimate villain onstage in the final ten pages of a book or ten minutes of a movie, or ten minutes of a game.  You have to play fair with your reader/viewer/player and hint at and suggest the real villain and the ultimate solution from the beginning.  When all is revealed we have to have this sense of -- "Oh, that makes sense.  I saw that coming.  Now I understand what that cryptic exchange meant."  You can't have the players/readers/viewers reaction be "huh"? and not expect a fire storm from your disappointed consummer.  And again in Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings we didn't suddenly find out it wasn't Voldemort or Sauron after all, but some character we'd never heard of before.

I went ahead, and went public in my blog rather then staying behind a handle so I'm going to do the same here.  I'm Melinda Snodgrass.  I'm a novelist and screenwriter.  I've worked on numerous television shows, written several movies, have had many novels published.  Together with George R.R. we created the Wild Card shared world book series, and I'm penning a movie based on those books for Universal Pictures.

I fell in love with gaming because of Dragon Age, and loved Mass Effect with a passion until they messed up the ending.  Which is why I'm being bad, and writing my own Mass Effect ending, and aftermath in between working on my paying work.    

It is a great universe with marvelous characters.  It deserved a better conclusion.

[The Angry One]

I think the lack of planning became evident right at the beginning with the sudden focus on Earth.
Earth was barely mentioned at all in the previous installments, with the focus being on humans in the galaxy and that galaxy with it's various species as a whole.

Now suddenly it's all about Earth. Earth is special and Shepard is thinking about Earth all the time. That was a warning sign that things were going downhill, though I never thought it'd be as bad as it turned out.

Modifié par The Angry One, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:48 .

[MegaSovereign]

The Angry One wrote...

I think the lack of planning became evident right at the beginning with the sudden focus on Earth.
Earth was barely mentioned at all in the previous installments, with the focus being on humans in the galaxy and that galaxy with it's various speciees as a whole.

Now suddenly it's all about Earth. Earth is special and Shepard is thinking about Earth all the time. That was a warning sign that things were going downhill, though I never thought it'd be as bad as it turned out.

I actually agree with you on this one.

My Shepard was a colonist. He never cared about Earth and never had a human centric attitude.

[D24O]

I wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I think the lack of planning became evident right at the beginning with the sudden focus on Earth.
Earth was barely mentioned at all in the previous installments, with the focus being on humans in the galaxy and that galaxy with it's various speciees as a whole.

Now suddenly it's all about Earth. Earth is special and Shepard is thinking about Earth all the time. That was a warning sign that things were going downhill, though I never thought it'd be as bad as it turned out.

I agree with you on this one.

My Shepard was a Spacer. He never cared about Earth and never had a human centric attitude.

Modifié par D24O, 13 juillet 2012 - 06:49 .

[Taboo]

From what I understand, game endings are written last most of the time. Bioshock suffered from this.

Mac Walters suffers from an inability to determine between art cinema endings and competent execution however.

[Ithurael]

Earth had a special significance to the Human Race, and - as of ME2 - we know that the Reapers were VERY interested in harvesting humans (for reasons unknown at the time)

Besides, My shep was a colonist and even I felt an attachment to Earth.

[MegaSovereign]

D24O wrote...

I wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I think the lack of planning became evident right at the beginning with the sudden focus on Earth.
Earth was barely mentioned at all in the previous installments, with the focus being on humans in the galaxy and that galaxy with it's various speciees as a whole.

Now suddenly it's all about Earth. Earth is special and Shepard is thinking about Earth all the time. That was a warning sign that things were going downhill, though I never thought it'd be as bad as it turned out.

I agree with you on this one.

My Shepard was a Spacer. He never cared about Earth and never had a human centric attitude.

My Shepard is a pioneer. Your Shepard is inferior.

[Grand Wazoo]

The Angry One wrote...

I think the lack of planning became evident right at the beginning with the sudden focus on Earth.
Earth was barely mentioned at all in the previous installments, with the focus being on humans in the galaxy and that galaxy with it's various speciees as a whole.

Now suddenly it's all about Earth. Earth is special and Shepard is thinking about Earth all the time. That was a warning sign that things were going downhill, though I never thought it'd be as bad as it turned out.

I think that making the Earth such a central point of the whole game was Bioware attempting to create an emotinal attachment for the new players and hoping that the existing fans would ride along with it. The whole opening felt unplanned and spacer and colonist Shepards suddenly lamenting over Earth after 5 month vacation felt really off.

[D24O]

MegaSovereign wrote...
My Shepard is a pioneer. Your Shepard is inferior.

Gooby pls, my Shepard explored space all his life, you were stuck on a colony for like half your life.

[MegaSovereign]

Grand Wazoo wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I think the lack of planning became evident right at the beginning with the sudden focus on Earth.
Earth was barely mentioned at all in the previous installments, with the focus being on humans in the galaxy and that galaxy with it's various speciees as a whole.

Now suddenly it's all about Earth. Earth is special and Shepard is thinking about Earth all the time. That was a warning sign that things were going downhill, though I never thought it'd be as bad as it turned out.

I think that making the Earth such a central point of the whole game was Bioware attempting to create an emotinal attachment for the new players and hoping that the existing fans would ride along with it. The whole opening felt unplanned and spacer and colonist Shepards suddenly lamenting over Earth after 5 month vacation felt really off.

The intro was worse than the ending. I was surprised there were less complaints about not having the trial.

[Taboo]

My Shepard crew up on Earth without a family.

You are all ***holes.

[Galbrant]

Heh... yeah come to think of it I don't have an Earthborn Shepard. I only have a Colonist and Spacer Shepards. For all I care just let the Reapers have the Citadel and Earth.... and throw an asteroid right into the Sol Relay. >_> It kills two birds with one stone... the catalyst and what ever the hell the reapers were doing on Earth. And the Victory Fleet can do something more productive like coming up a plan to win the war instead of relying on a over sized battery.

[MegaSovereign]

D24O wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...
My Shepard is a pioneer. Your Shepard is inferior.

Gooby pls, my Shepard explored space all his life, you were stuck on a colony for like half your life.

Yes but my Shepard learned how to farm. That's one skill tree you'll never have.

[Atakuma]

I like all of the games individually, However Mass effect is an awful trilogy.

[D24O]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Yes but my Shepard learned how to farm. That's one skill tree you'll never have.

Gooby pls, mine had a hydroponic tomato farm in his room during his 6 month incarceration, AND he learned how to play the piano well.

[o Ventus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

From what I understand, game endings are written last most of the time. Bioshock suffered from this.

Mac Walters suffers from an inability to determine between art cinema endings and competent execution however.

Really?

Most authors I see have admitted to outlining the ending first, so they don't write themselves into madness.

[MegaSovereign]

D24O wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Yes but my Shepard learned how to farm. That's one skill tree you'll never have.

Gooby pls, mine had a hydroponic tomato farm in his room during his 6 month incarceration, AND he learned how to play the piano well.

Your Shepard's childhood is completely artificial. Artificial air, artificial gravity, artificial life.

[Ithurael]

Taboo-XX wrote...

From what I understand, game endings are written last most of the time. Bioshock suffered from this.

Mac Walters suffers from an inability to determine between art cinema endings and competent execution however.

In the end we can blame EA for rushing the game to meet/exceed Quarterly Numbers

We can blame Walters for all the glory that he did to the last minutes of the franchise (I am not saying he is incompetent, I am just saying that writing an ending to a trilogy that was written by many people on your own and not asking for feedback...may not be the best idea) Mass Effect was not His story, it was a story comprised of many minds and many philosophies intertwined into one. No one writer should have the authority to change that - ever. Every writer should have been allowed to peer review and add input to the ending of a story they were telling as well.

Mass Effect 3 did drop the ball pretty badly. The EC made the ending bareable, but in the end the ending fails to meet the qualities and mythology of the previous two games. The Catalyst's logic feels so alien to us and the mythos because it was just One Person writing it with no other input.

Now we move on or something

I am replaying ME1 & 2 to see how I feel about it (I still cannot look at Soverign and feel threatend knowing that he is the equivalent of a galactic roomba). but still headcanon, fan fiction, and (one day) mods...mods everywhere

[Taboo]

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From what I understand, game endings are written last most of the time. Bioshock suffered from this.

Mac Walters suffers from an inability to determine between art cinema endings and competent execution however.

Really?

Most authors I see have admitted to outlining the ending first, so they don't write themselves into madness.

I seem to remember reading that somehwere yes.

Reptilian Rob told me that to get a writing job in the industry you have to have five years experience.

I have the required education in writing from high school and college and even I know that Mass Effect 3 has some huge no nos in it.

Basic. Comprehension. 

Deus ex Machina. Emotional manipulation.

Mac Walters should be writing for direct to DVD film companies. That isn't so much of  an insult as somethingI believe he's truly most qualified for.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 13 juillet 2012 - 07:01 .

[The Angry One]

Ithurael wrote...

Earth had a special significance to the Human Race, and - as of ME2 - we know that the Reapers were VERY interested in harvesting humans (for reasons unknown at the time)

Besides, My shep was a colonist and even I felt an attachment to Earth.

But not to the player. Because we don't go there.
Even Star Ocean 3 did this better, because while never setting foot there it's intro gives a glimpse into a beautiful future Earth. Mass Effect doesn't even give us that. Not even in Mass Effect 3.

I care about the Citadel because I've been to the Citadel, seen it in it's prime and interacted with it's people. I don't care about Mass Effect's Earth because I've never seen it and never been there.
This is by the way the exact same reason why Vent Boy fails.

[D24O]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Your Shepard's childhood is completely artificial. Artificial air, artificial gravity, artificial life.

Gooby pls, you're forgetting that ships stop at various space stations around Alliance space, and that families get leave too. Don't forget that other people were around, he wasn't on a ship manned by mechs.

[Byrdman]

deleted

Modifié par Byrdman, 13 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .

[Tigerman123]

o Ventus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From what I understand, game endings are written last most of the time. Bioshock suffered from this.

Mac Walters suffers from an inability to determine between art cinema endings and competent execution however.

Really?

Most authors I see have admitted to outlining the ending first, so they don't write themselves into madness.

You obviously didn't play Dragon age 2  :innocent:

[MetioricTest]

The Catalyst was planned since ME1. If you get the background citadel noises and play them backwards, they sound like "The Reapers are the only solution, no other way will escape obliteration." In German.

It's true. Check your codex

[Grand Wazoo]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Mac Walters should be writing for direct to DVD film companies. That isn't so much of  an insult as somethingI believe he's truly most qualified for.

I belive it was a great man who once said: "A good man always knows his limitations".