435 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Tali's data give you the allowans to go after Saren. That info was the only thing need for the council to suspect Saren. And She and it just happen to come out of the blue just as we need it.
 It's a deus ex.

2.The salution of the plot was given to the player at the begining of the game, The catalyst just allows the player to us it. He is not giving anything. He added more problems to the problem by giving the cons of control and destroy.
Your not understand what the deus ex is.

1. She "didn't come out of the blue". You find out that someone is on the Citadel who might have data on Saren. *insert Shadow Broker and thugs plot here* You then rescue her and in return she gives you the data. The data was recovered by her earlier. Also, it doesn't solve the plot, it helps you move it along. It's a plot point. Vigil's data is a plot device as well. He says "Hey, here's some data to help you." and then he allows you to go along and finish the plot.

2. The Catalyst does allow the player to solve the plot... he brings us "up" to him to pick our choice. Without him and his elevator, we would've died in fron of the console that didn't activate the Cruicible. This is a key feature of DEM's. It solves the plot in an a**pull manner.

Your spelling is atrocious and it is YOU who doesn't understand what a Deus Ex Machine is.

1. You not getting whats my point . What are the chances of someone just having something  that rare info we need to solve a problem and what are the chances out of all the places they can be in the universe, they are on the citadel?
Once you awnser this question, you'll know it'd a deus ex.

2.That not solving the problem. It even explain why he does this. That is not being a deus ex. He still brings us up to choices that have more problems then before. How is this being a deux ex? He solves nothing.

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:11 .

[Sousabird]

CronoDragoon wrote...

While I agree that the Crucible/Catalyst criticism is off-base, I believe DEM refers to situations where the main plot issue is resolved by it. So I don't think your examples fit, either.

A DEM would be instead of a crucible we would fight till the end of the game and then Jesus comes and kills all the reapers.

[cavs25]

Lol Op is trolling
even if it is his opinion, he just responds to a post of good points with

"wrong"

And goes on to write about something completely different that wasn't the main point of the post.
You are a good politician op.

[xsdob]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How does the conduit send the mako through the citadels walls?

How do Relays send you through planets, asteroids, and other space particles?

I think they may be related.

Wait, they can do that?

That sounds down right deus exish to me, the entire mass effect world is built on a device that breaks more laws of physics.

Light can't go through solid objects and it has no mass, how can a ship do it?

Modifié par xsdob, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:10 .

[TheCrazyHobo]

This OP is not looking for discussion but is only trolling.

Pay no more head to this thread and let it die.

[dreman9999]

xsdob wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How does the conduit send the mako through the citadels walls?

How do Relays send you through planets, asteroids, and other space particles?

I think they may be related.

Wait, they can do that?

That sounds down right deus exish to me, the entire mass effect world is built on a device that breaks more laws of physics.

Light can't go through solid objects and it has no mass, how can a ship do it?

Read the codex. And mass at exteme speeds can go through object. Particles from space are doing that right now.

[Kamfrenchie]

dreman9999 wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I hated the original endings to Mass Effect 3.

With that now of the way, the OP is absolutely right about Vigil being a deus ex machina as well. No one paid much attention to it however because the ending of Mass Effect 1 was fairly epic.

NO. Vigil merely explains why sovereign and saren are acting the way they do. As or the data, you could just drop it and have a character hack the control panel.

It's as if in a war story, the hero notices the ennemy are making a detour to reach their destiation, and thn meets  friendly soldier telling him the min road is fortified/mined

Also, another definition

http://tvtropes.org/...n/DeusExMachina

Whether or not the crucible and the catalyst are technically DEM doesn't matter that much, they are ass pulls and horrible writing in the end.

ME1 had some contrived coincidence (tali) but nothing like a DEM afaik.

Project lazarus was just bad, there ws no need to have shepard killed, cerberus could hav just either approached him, or have been followng him cloely nd savd him after the collector attack and before he went splat on the planet.
Shep fall into coma for a while, and voila. Lazaru is just entirely unnecessary.

You need to play ME1 again...

what's your point exactly ? they use the same control panel that saren use, the data is not really what i'd call a major plot point, drop it and it'd still work. Once saren cntrols the panel just use it yourself after dealing with him or hack it, or ask the council, they ought to know.


If a vilain  pulls a switch to open a door, i can use it to close it

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
1. You not get what going on. What are the chances of someone just something  that rare info we need to solve a problem and what are the chances out of all the places they can be in the universe, they are on the citadel?
Once you awnser this question, you'll know it'd a deus ex.

2.That not solving the problem. It even explain why he does this. That is not being a deus ex. He still brings us up to choices that have more problems then before. How is this being a deux ex? He solves nothing.

1. That's not a DEM. The literay term you want is on another dictionary page. The data is a mix of serendipity mixed with good timing.

2. Yes, it does. Without the Catalyst to bring Shepard up and talk shop, She would've died in front of that console and not be able to solve the plot. The Catalyst, however, does this, explains them, and has the graciousness to allow you to choose because..... he's bad written.

[xsdob]

dreman9999 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

How does the conduit send the mako through the citadels walls?

How do Relays send you through planets, asteroids, and other space particles?

I think they may be related.

Wait, they can do that?

That sounds down right deus exish to me, the entire mass effect world is built on a device that breaks more laws of physics.

Light can't go through solid objects and it has no mass, how can a ship do it?

Read the codex. And mass at exteme speeds can go through object. Particles from space are doing that right now.

but that's subatomic metaphysics, appliable only to singular lone particles, how can billions of trillions of atoms do it reliably every time.

Modifié par xsdob, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:20 .

[Ticonderoga117]

xsdob wrote...
Wait, they can do that?

That sounds down right deus exish to me, the entire mass effect world is built on a device that breaks more laws of physics.

Light can't go through solid objects and it has no mass, how can a ship do it?

Light has mass actually. You can levitate very small objects with lasers!

I think something that is actually massless and going "hella" fast is enough to allow it to pass through.

[Kamfrenchie]

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Tali's data give you the allowans to go after Saren. That info was the only thing need for the council to suspect Saren. And She and it just happen to come out of the blue just as we need it.
 It's a deus ex.

2.The salution of the plot was given to the player at the begining of the game, The catalyst just allows the player to us it. He is not giving anything. He added more problems to the problem by giving the cons of control and destroy.
Your not understand what the deus ex is.

1. She "didn't come out of the blue". You find out that someone is on the Citadel who might have data on Saren. *insert Shadow Broker and thugs plot here* You then rescue her and in return she gives you the data. The data was recovered by her earlier. Also, it doesn't solve the plot, it helps you move it along. It's a plot point. Vigil's data is a plot device as well. He says "Hey, here's some data to help you." and then he allows you to go along and finish the plot.

2. The Catalyst does allow the player to solve the plot... he brings us "up" to him to pick our choice. Without him and his elevator, we would've died in fron of the console that didn't activate the Cruicible. This is a key feature of DEM's. It solves the plot in an a**pull manner.

Your spelling is atrocious and it is YOU who doesn't understand what a Deus Ex Machine is.

1. You not getting whats my point . What are the chances of someone just having something  that rare info we need to solve a problem and what are the chances out of all the places they can be in the universe, they are on the citadel?
Once you awnser this question, you'll know it'd a deus ex.

2.That not solving the problem. It even explain why he does this. That is not being a deus ex. He still brings us up to choices that have more problems then before. How is this being a deux ex? He solves nothing.

1) is contrieved coincidence, it does make sense in the game, and doesn't result in saren being arrested.

2) He brought up the platform and allow us to choose, then  uses space magic for the 3 endings. His explanation is stupid. The whole thing can be cnsiderd a DEM, but even ifit in't, it's bad writin.

Let's call it an ass pull and call it a day

[hexediter]

troll post, nothing to see here, ignore the explosions behind me and disperse please.

[xsdob]

Mass relay travel just sounds like space magic to me, even with the explanations of the codex.

However, mass effect feilds also sound like space magic machina's from how element zero is produced, but since it's necessary for all other tech to function I let it slide most of the time and accept space magic is a begrudging necessity for mass effect.

I have no problem with space magic really, just bothers me so many others have a problem with it and yet dont bring up the exsisting space magic that was in the last two games.

Pet peeve at most though, if you see a distiction between the two that alright, it's your perception than I guess.

Modifié par xsdob, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:25 .

[Ticonderoga117]

xsdob wrote...

Mass relay travel just sounds like space magic to me, even with the explanations of the codex.

However,
mass effect feilds also sound like space magic machina's from how
element zero is produced, but since it's necessary for all other tech to
function I let it slide most of the time and accept space magic is a
begrudging necessity for mass effect.

I have no problem with
space magic really, just bothers me so many others have a problem with
it and yet dont bring up the exsisting space magic that was in the last
two games.

Pet peeve at most though, if you see a distiction between the two that alright, it's your perception than I guess.

Just like Star Trek's dilithium, Stargate's naquadah (and variants), etc.

The few "impossible" things to allow regular science to work, most of the time.

It bothers me because I do see a difference.

Eezo, and what not, are given at the beginning of the game to allow us to do all the neat stuff. It's literally a foundation to the universe. No eezo, no Mass Effect.

Plus, at least some thought went into it on how it works and what not.

ME3's ending is not necessary and plays fast and loose with a lot of things, which only adds to the annoying DEM of it all.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:28 .

[The Angry One]

ITT: OP does not know what a deus ex machina is.
Oh right it's goldrush. Moving along.

Modifié par The Angry One, 14 juillet 2012 - 05:26 .

[dreman9999]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Kamfrenchie wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

I hated the original endings to Mass Effect 3.

With that now of the way, the OP is absolutely right about Vigil being a deus ex machina as well. No one paid much attention to it however because the ending of Mass Effect 1 was fairly epic.

NO. Vigil merely explains why sovereign and saren are acting the way they do. As or the data, you could just drop it and have a character hack the control panel.

It's as if in a war story, the hero notices the ennemy are making a detour to reach their destiation, and thn meets  friendly soldier telling him the min road is fortified/mined

Also, another definition

http://tvtropes.org/...n/DeusExMachina

Whether or not the crucible and the catalyst are technically DEM doesn't matter that much, they are ass pulls and horrible writing in the end.

ME1 had some contrived coincidence (tali) but nothing like a DEM afaik.

Project lazarus was just bad, there ws no need to have shepard killed, cerberus could hav just either approached him, or have been followng him cloely nd savd him after the collector attack and before he went splat on the planet.
Shep fall into coma for a while, and voila. Lazaru is just entirely unnecessary.

You need to play ME1 again...

what's your point exactly ? they use the same control panel that saren use, the data is not really what i'd call a major plot point, drop it and it'd still work. Once saren cntrols the panel just use it yourself after dealing with him or hack it, or ask the council, they ought to know.


If a vilain  pulls a switch to open a door, i can use it to close it

If they did have that data file, they would not of stopped sovergin. That data file solved everything for the characters. It's from a character who we did not know exsisted till the last moments of the game.

What does that mean?

[darkchief10]

if i wanted rampant trolling i would be at /b
in short
gooby plz

[dreman9999]

Kamfrenchie wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
1. Tali's data give you the allowans to go after Saren. That info was the only thing need for the council to suspect Saren. And She and it just happen to come out of the blue just as we need it.
 It's a deus ex.

2.The salution of the plot was given to the player at the begining of the game, The catalyst just allows the player to us it. He is not giving anything. He added more problems to the problem by giving the cons of control and destroy.
Your not understand what the deus ex is.

1. She "didn't come out of the blue". You find out that someone is on the Citadel who might have data on Saren. *insert Shadow Broker and thugs plot here* You then rescue her and in return she gives you the data. The data was recovered by her earlier. Also, it doesn't solve the plot, it helps you move it along. It's a plot point. Vigil's data is a plot device as well. He says "Hey, here's some data to help you." and then he allows you to go along and finish the plot.

2. The Catalyst does allow the player to solve the plot... he brings us "up" to him to pick our choice. Without him and his elevator, we would've died in fron of the console that didn't activate the Cruicible. This is a key feature of DEM's. It solves the plot in an a**pull manner.

Your spelling is atrocious and it is YOU who doesn't understand what a Deus Ex Machine is.

1. You not getting whats my point . What are the chances of someone just having something  that rare info we need to solve a problem and what are the chances out of all the places they can be in the universe, they are on the citadel?
Once you awnser this question, you'll know it'd a deus ex.

2.That not solving the problem. It even explain why he does this. That is not being a deus ex. He still brings us up to choices that have more problems then before. How is this being a deux ex? He solves nothing.

1) is contrieved coincidence, it does make sense in the game, and doesn't result in saren being arrested.

2) He brought up the platform and allow us to choose, then  uses space magic for the 3 endings. His explanation is stupid. The whole thing can be cnsiderd a DEM, but even ifit in't, it's bad writin.

Let's call it an ass pull and call it a day

1.
coincidence=deux machina if is solves the characters problem.

2. Bring us up to the choose did not solve the problem in hand and it is explaine. It's not a deus ex.

[txgoldrush]

TheCrazyHobo wrote...

This OP is not looking for discussion but is only trolling.

Pay no more head to this thread and let it die.

Better than yet another pissing thread on how ME3 sucks because of one little thing.

[Xemnas07]

youre an idiot, we're npt saying the catalyst or crucible are rip offs, we're saying the idea of organics vs synthetics is, the whole purpose of the reapers and solution created by the catalyst is a rip STRAIGHT from DEM

[txgoldrush]

The Angry One wrote...

ITT: OP does not know what a deus ex machina is.
Oh right it's goldrush. Moving along.

Oh is The Angry One...always pissing on ME3.

Face facts....the older games have DEMs.

[dreman9999]

The Angry One wrote...

ITT: OP does not know what a deus ex machina is.
Oh right it's goldrush. Moving along.

http://www.merriam-w...deus ex machina 
Deus ex machina
 a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty.


Based on the literal meaning, Tali in ME1 is a deus ex. The catalyst is not because it solves nothing.

[Ticonderoga117]

txgoldrush wrote...
Better than yet another pissing thread on how ME3 sucks because of one little thing.

It's not little when it's the end to the trilogy that has been building up for years!

You just can't slapdash that kind of thing in a "good" franchise.

[darkchief10]

everyone steals from everyone, now can we please move on?
* body is found several hours later