Random Jerkface wrote...
"--He is a textbook case of a Deus ex machina", yes I read that part.txgoldrush wrote...
Vigil was more than just expository--
Cool story.
Modifié par txgoldrush, 14 juillet 2012 - 06:13 .
The Angry One wrote...
MegaSovereign wrote...
I doubt many people have 4 billion credits worth of cybernetic implants. Shepard is basically a cyborg.
I'm sorry since when did the expense of the implants come into it?If everyone was like Shepard, tech singularity wouldn't be an issue
because then organics can upgrade/evolve themselves as fast as
synthetics. I think that's the idea behind synthesis.
Yeah except for the part where Shepard's brain was completely untouched other than being restored.
You realise the idea of a technological singularity is an AI's capacity for thought? Yeah.
No he does not. He gives you files so you can gain control of the Citadel. The game does not end when you do that, nor is Sovie killed and no longer a threat. Vigil is not a DEM because he did not solve the problem, he just helped.txgoldrush wrote...
Random Jerkface wrote...
"--He is a textbook case of a Deus ex machina", yes I read that part.txgoldrush wrote...
Vigil was more than just expository--
Cool story.
Becuase he gives you a win button. That makes him MORE than expository.
Modifié par Mr.House, 14 juillet 2012 - 06:15 .
txgoldrush wrote...
It only "continues its agenda" by circumstance alone.
The thought of a future where synthetics are created and that he is not in the picture is NOT in his agenda.
Nevermind the Control ending where he doesn't wish to be replaced but must accept his fate.
ONLY synthesis is going with his agenda.
Modifié par The Angry One, 14 juillet 2012 - 06:16 .
MegaSovereign wrote...
The implants make him better physically. ME2 never did tell us specifically in what way. Shepard could make upgrades to himself. Maybe that's one way.
Mr.House wrote...
No he does not. He gives you files so you can gain control of the Citadel. The game does not end when you do that, nor is Sovie killed and no lnoger a threat. Vigil is not a DEM because he did not solve the problem, he just helped.txgoldrush wrote...
Random Jerkface wrote...
"--He is a textbook case of a Deus ex machina", yes I read that part.txgoldrush wrote...
Vigil was more than just expository--
Cool story.
Becuase he gives you a win button. That makes him MORE than expository.
MegaSovereign wrote...
You have to consider it from the Reapers' perspective. Mars can't sustain life, so their searches there aren't as thorough as well...Earth. It makes sense.
And we knew it could kill Reapers. Liara knew that much even before she gother hands on the blueprints. She just wasn't sure whether it would backfire and cause collateral damage (like in the low EMS destroy ending).
The Angry One wrote...
And the assumption that an AI's will always be greater. Which by the way wouldn't actually change in synthesis.
All you've done is make organics more... compatible for their glorious AI overlords. Well done.
Even with the fleet there, they where doing no damage to Sovie. The thing that solved the problem was killing Saren husak. ARe you fgonig to say Saren Husk is a DEM? The files helped, they solved nothing.txgoldrush wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
No he does not. He gives you files so you can gain control of the Citadel. The game does not end when you do that, nor is Sovie killed and no lnoger a threat. Vigil is not a DEM because he did not solve the problem, he just helped.txgoldrush wrote...
Random Jerkface wrote...
"--He is a textbook case of a Deus ex machina", yes I read that part.txgoldrush wrote...
Vigil was more than just expository--
Cool story.
Becuase he gives you a win button. That makes him MORE than expository.
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
txgoldrush wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
No he does not. He gives you files so you can gain control of the Citadel. The game does not end when you do that, nor is Sovie killed and no lnoger a threat. Vigil is not a DEM because he did not solve the problem, he just helped.txgoldrush wrote...
Random Jerkface wrote...
"--He is a textbook case of a Deus ex machina", yes I read that part.txgoldrush wrote...
Vigil was more than just expository--
Cool story.
Becuase he gives you a win button. That makes him MORE than expository.
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
txgoldrush wrote...
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
The Angry One wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
It only "continues its agenda" by circumstance alone.
The thought of a future where synthetics are created and that he is not in the picture is NOT in his agenda.
Yes it is, because it has already determined that it's current solution doesn't work, therefore it came up with new ones that all fit it's agenda.Nevermind the Control ending where he doesn't wish to be replaced but must accept his fate.
ONLY synthesis is going with his agenda.
A psychopath does not care so much that they die but that they remain in control of their death and in some cases of people after their death through various means.
The Catalyst fits this line of thought. It may not like being removed from the picture, but again it's already determined that it needs a new solution (for arbitrary reasons).
Of course it wants synthesis more than anything, and synthesis is an outright victory for it. But all the options reflect it's goals.
1. Yes, it is unexpaected. The chances of her getting the info and being on the citadel when we need is extremly low. That why it's a deux ex.Ticonderoga117 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...1.
http://www.merriam-w...deus ex machina
a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty .
Based ont the literal meaning, Tali is a Deus ex.
2. No, it does not. It's expline why the catalyst brings up Shepard. Add, the choice give still add more problems. Bring ing him up to give Shepard more problems is not a deus ex.
1. It's not unexpected, nor contrived. Your working on getting data on Saren, you find out she possibly might have something usefull. Etc.
2. He doesn't give Shepard more problems, he gives him solutions. "Pick these three endings to end the entire plot. All of them suck, but too bad, you're stuck with my choices, because the 4th option is a broken mess. Pick!"
The Angry One wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
Vigil solves the issue of why Sovereign needs to attack the Citadel this way if the Reapers created it in the first place.
This is a dangling plot thread that is neatly resolved by the introduction of Vigil. This therefore justifies Vigil's virus, because Ilos was full of researchers trying to figure out how to mess with the Reapers in various ways.
It is not a DEM, it is a culmination of elements that enables the last act to begin.
Again, stop trying to justify ME3's failures by bashing it's betters.
The Angry One wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
Vigil solves the issue of why Sovereign needs to attack the Citadel this way if the Reapers created it in the first place.
This is a dangling plot thread that is neatly resolved by the introduction of Vigil. This therefore justifies Vigil's virus, because Ilos was full of researchers trying to figure out how to mess with the Reapers in various ways.
It is not a DEM, it is a culmination of elements that enables the last act to begin.
Again, stop trying to justify ME3's failures by bashing it's betters.
Mr.House wrote...
Even with the fleet there, they where doing no damage to Sovie. The thing that solved the problem was killing Saren husak. ARe you fgonig to say Saren Husk is a DEM? The files helped, they solved nothing.txgoldrush wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
No he does not. He gives you files so you can gain control of the Citadel. The game does not end when you do that, nor is Sovie killed and no lnoger a threat. Vigil is not a DEM because he did not solve the problem, he just helped.txgoldrush wrote...
Random Jerkface wrote...
"--He is a textbook case of a Deus ex machina", yes I read that part.txgoldrush wrote...
Vigil was more than just expository--
Cool story.
Becuase he gives you a win button. That makes him MORE than expository.
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
txgoldrush wrote...
Any evidence that Destroy and Control "supports" his agenda. Now you are making stuff up.
Fact is, he clearly attempts to steer you away from Destroy and defines Synthesis as his IDEAL choice.
And there is NO way a billion year AI would accept a temporary fix to his "problem" and be part of his agenda.
dreman9999 wrote...
1. Yes, it is unexpaected. The chances of her getting the info and being on the citadel when we need is extremly low. That why it's a deux ex.
2.detory was achoice stated formthe start of the game as well as control. Whe the star child presents them, he gives the flaws of each. Destroy causes a genocide and control has the reapers impose a dictorship with Shepard in control with Shepard dieing to happen.
He added more problems to the choices you had before.
Ticonderoga117 wrote...
MegaSovereign wrote...
You have to consider it from the Reapers' perspective. Mars can't sustain life, so their searches there aren't as thorough as well...Earth. It makes sense.
And we knew it could kill Reapers. Liara knew that much even before she gother hands on the blueprints. She just wasn't sure whether it would backfire and cause collateral damage (like in the low EMS destroy ending).
Did they even search Earth? Maybe?? I don't know.
And I thought even she didn't know, because isn't there a conversation between Shep and her that basically goes: "We should find out what this thing does before we use it, could be bad."?
dreman9999 wrote...
The Angry One wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
Vigil solves the issue of why Sovereign needs to attack the Citadel this way if the Reapers created it in the first place.
This is a dangling plot thread that is neatly resolved by the introduction of Vigil. This therefore justifies Vigil's virus, because Ilos was full of researchers trying to figure out how to mess with the Reapers in various ways.
It is not a DEM, it is a culmination of elements that enables the last act to begin.
Again, stop trying to justify ME3's failures by bashing it's betters.
txgoldrush wrote...
However, its introduced ABRUPTLY into the plot to solve a problem, which is by definition DEM.
You are ignorant about this.
You clearly don't understand what a deusex is. That's not it.o Ventus wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
Mr.House wrote...
No he does not. He gives you files so you can gain control of the Citadel. The game does not end when you do that, nor is Sovie killed and no lnoger a threat. Vigil is not a DEM because he did not solve the problem, he just helped.txgoldrush wrote...
Random Jerkface wrote...
"--He is a textbook case of a Deus ex machina", yes I read that part.txgoldrush wrote...
Vigil was more than just expository--
Cool story.
Becuase he gives you a win button. That makes him MORE than expository.
He does solve a problem (which is rendering Soverign attackable byu the fifth fleet) and thats enough for him to qualify. Once again, a DEM does NOT have to solve the MAIN problem in the story just a significant hurdle of any kind, like even the impeding death of the hero.
1. Sovereign itself rendered itself able to be attacked by Saren's death.
2. The deus ex machina needs to be the element that defeats or stops the antagonist or main conflict from overtaking the protagonist, in order for it to be a deus ex machina.
dreman9999 wrote...
1. Yes, it is unexpaected. The chances of her getting the info and being on the citadel when we need is extremly low. That why it's a deux ex.
2.detory was achoice stated formthe start of the game as well as control. Whe the star child presents them, he gives the flaws of each. Destroy causes a genocide and control has the reapers impose a dictorship with Shepard in control with Shepard dieing to happen.
He added more problems to the choices you had before.
The Angry One wrote...
txgoldrush wrote...
Any evidence that Destroy and Control "supports" his agenda. Now you are making stuff up.
Destroy removes all synthetics. Control maintains the Reapers as overlords of the galaxy.Fact is, he clearly attempts to steer you away from Destroy and defines Synthesis as his IDEAL choice.
That it's the ideal choice does not make the others any less part of it's overall agenda.And there is NO way a billion year AI would accept a temporary fix to his "problem" and be part of his agenda.
It would if it has accepted that it's current solution is not working. It literally has nothing to lose.
Applepie_Svk wrote...
It´s silly that you are supporting ME3 nonsense (if it´s not Indoctrination) and spoiling previous two games because of 3rd part was art and previous was none ... Well, Drew Karpyshyn must be proud on his effort when he meet guys like you...
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