243 réponses à ce sujet

[darkblade]

Edalborez wrote...

Uh, the shield breaks against Brutes and Banshees because those attacks cause -stagger-. Just like they'll stagger you during a roll.

For all we know it is invincible to regular gunfire, Rocket Trooper rockets, Phantom blasts, Hunters, Pyros, Ravagers, and Turrets. The tradeoff is that the Paladin isn't killing anything while they're invincible.

This, so much this...

You guys have no idea how much fire it can take...but are complaining about its durability.

Also...who cares about platinum viability. Platinum is the super murder mode the community asked for, if only one class with one gun and one build is viable than so be it because thats the level of difficulty that was asked for.

classes and weapons shouldnt be buffed and balanced to keep up with that sort of tripe. Either is is up to par now, or its not.

Modifié par darkblade, 14 juillet 2012 - 06:50 .

[codename2o2]

darkblade wrote...


Also...who cares about platinum viability. Platinum is the super murder mode the community asked for, if only one class with one gun and one build is viable than so be it because thats the level of difficulty that was asked for.

classes and weapons shouldnt be buffed and balanced to keep up with that sort of tripe. Either is is up to par now, or its not.

Agree. I really hope they made platinum the hardest possible difficulty ever and never make any changes to it or balance thing around it. It's a bonus difficulty that people whined about since day one and now that it's here I hope they're satisfied.

[darkblade]

Lol, paladin is a sentinel...he fits the description of sentinel.

People getting caught up in semantics makes me laugh.

This is the whole rectangle/square argument.

Every sentinel is an engineer, but every engineer isnt a sentinel.

[Prince Bubblegeth]

maybe they'd finally fixed incinerate's freeze combo glitch and so they're giving us another fire-ice combo maniac like the quarian engineer.

ToaOrka wrote...

You think that's bad, there's only one true Vanguard - The Krogan. He's got Biotics (Barrier, Charge) and Combat (Carnage) powers. Every other Vanguard is just an Adept with Charge.

 

and this  

Mandolin wrote...

Wonder why they didnt make the shield biotic based rather than tech based to fit the lore better - like a small mobile version of the justicar bubble shield. At the end of the day I dont really care about lore but it would have avoided complaints like we're seeing in this thread.

 

yeah, with technology similar to those of the big biotic amplifiers that the Grissom academy students were using to protect themselves from Cerberus (remember having to either convince em to put the barriers down or destroy the amps?).

Modifié par Prince Bubblegeth, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:15 .

[Stardusk]

codename2o2 wrote...

darkblade wrote...


Also...who cares about platinum viability. Platinum is the super murder mode the community asked for, if only one class with one gun and one build is viable than so be it because thats the level of difficulty that was asked for.

classes and weapons shouldnt be buffed and balanced to keep up with that sort of tripe. Either is is up to par now, or its not.

Agree. I really hope they made platinum the hardest possible difficulty ever and never make any changes to it or balance thing around it. It's a bonus difficulty that people whined about since day one and now that it's here I hope they're satisfied.

Platinum's difficulty will have been exaggerated. My team and I are sure to get full extraction the first night playing, then people will start doing solos, etc.

Powers that become useless on Platinum are kind of silly, don't you think?

[Javo2357]

Stardusk wrote...

codename2o2 wrote...

darkblade wrote...


Also...who cares about platinum viability. Platinum is the super murder mode the community asked for, if only one class with one gun and one build is viable than so be it because thats the level of difficulty that was asked for.

classes and weapons shouldnt be buffed and balanced to keep up with that sort of tripe. Either is is up to par now, or its not.

Agree. I really hope they made platinum the hardest possible difficulty ever and never make any changes to it or balance thing around it. It's a bonus difficulty that people whined about since day one and now that it's here I hope they're satisfied.

Platinum's difficulty will have been exaggerated. My team and I are sure to get full extraction the first night playing, then people will start doing solos, etc.

Powers that become useless on Platinum are kind of silly, don't you think?

I can see a solid team getting a full extraction even the first time on Platinum. I think it will be MUCH more challenging going at it solo, simply because you'll have to fight all 3 factions, and honestly, there aren't many classes that can deal with all 3 factions' weaknesses all that effectively. I think it will be solo'd by some of the best players but it will involve a lot more kiting and hit n run tactics than in Gold.

[HNNNNNNG]

I'm kinda sadden by this news.
The sentinel was a Biotic/tech combo.

Adepts: Biotics
Vanguards: Biotics/Combat
Soldiers: Combat
Infiltrator: Combat/Tech
Engineer: Tech

The sentinel was to combine tech/biotics. That's the entire point of the class! can't decided what to be? GO WITH EVERYTHING!

So I do agree that a biotic ability should be there in place of incinerate. Pull/throw wouldn't be that bad. Maybe even a lift grenade if they're stingy. Unless that new cold snap thing is a biotic ability, although it sure doesn't sound like it.

I do like the idea of the shield though, goes with the whole idea of sentinels always having some kind of protection. (even in mass effect 1 they had barrier)

EDIT: Hell, sentinels are even DEFINED as having both tech and biotic abilities. In all three games! Taken from the mass effect wiki:

ME1 ->"The Sentinel[/b] is able to combine tech and biotics to manipulate the environment... "
ME2 -> "Sentinels[/b] are unique, bringing both tech and biotic abilities to the battlefield.  "
ME3 -> "Sentinels are unique, bringing both tech and biotic abilities to the battlefield."

Modifié par HNNNNNNG, 14 juillet 2012 - 07:35 .

[darkblade]

Pull is garbage and throw is worthless against armor.

The sentinels have been about utility. You can and I have made effective sentinels in SP by skipping either all biotics or all tech powers. Only game you couldnt do that on was ME2 because you only had a few powers.

The theme of Sentinel has been helping the team gain and maintain ground with the possibility of tech and biotics to further that end. Why do they all have to be shoe horned into having bad self synergy just to satisfy players who take maybes as absolutes?

[Qror_pl]

darkblade wrote...

Pull is garbage and throw is worthless against armor.

The sentinels have been about utility. You can and I have made effective sentinels in SP by skipping either all biotics or all tech powers. Only game you couldnt do that on was ME2 because you only had a few powers.

The theme of Sentinel has been helping the team gain and maintain ground with the possibility of tech and biotics to further that end. Why do they all have to be shoe horned into having bad self synergy just to satisfy players who take maybes as absolutes?

Somewhere in game or on wiki it says that "sentinels are masters of armament" or osmething like that, so yeah they are more support class which should focus on their weapons rather then powers (maybe exept for human and turian sentinel and batarian sentinel, who can do Tech bursts and BE on their own)

[darkblade]

Qror_pl wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Pull is garbage and throw is worthless against armor.

The sentinels have been about utility. You can and I have made effective sentinels in SP by skipping either all biotics or all tech powers. Only game you couldnt do that on was ME2 because you only had a few powers.

The theme of Sentinel has been helping the team gain and maintain ground with the possibility of tech and biotics to further that end. Why do they all have to be shoe horned into having bad self synergy just to satisfy players who take maybes as absolutes?

Somewhere in game or on wiki it says that "sentinels are masters of armament" or osmething like that, so yeah they are more support class which should focus on their weapons rather then powers (maybe exept for human and turian sentinel and batarian sentinel, who can do Tech bursts and BE on their own)

Dont remember that, i remember them being referred to masters of battlefield control. Which looking at paladin, he is. 

Paladin can pull off all three tech combos alone, thats really something as well as being the only real tank sentinel because of self healing, and dealing decent dps because of well synergized moves, plus crowd control because of tech burst, fire splosions, and cryo splosions.

You have to really be nitpicking to have a problem with this class.

[gh0st wh1sp3r]

darkblade wrote...

Lol, paladin is a sentinel...he fits the description of sentinel.

People getting caught up in semantics makes me laugh.

This is the whole rectangle/square argument.

Every sentinel is an engineer, but every engineer isnt a sentinel.

Your argument is a fallacy. That's not how that works, they don't share the same correlative elements in order to use the square/rectangle argument.

Technically, all these classes are soldiers, if you want to put it that way. There's a difference between a soldier and a Soldier. Think about it.

darkblade wrote...

Qror_pl wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Pull is garbage and throw is worthless against armor.

The
sentinels have been about utility. You can and I have made effective
sentinels in SP by skipping either all biotics or all tech powers. Only
game you couldnt do that on was ME2 because you only had a few powers.

The
theme of Sentinel has been helping the team gain and maintain ground
with the possibility of tech and biotics to further that end. Why do
they all have to be shoe horned into having bad self synergy just to
satisfy players who take maybes as absolutes?

Somewhere
in game or on wiki it says that "sentinels are masters of armament" or
osmething like that, so yeah they are more support class which should
focus on their weapons rather then powers (maybe exept for human and
turian sentinel and batarian sentinel, who can do Tech bursts and BE on
their own)

Dont remember that, i remember them being referred to masters of battlefield control. Which looking at paladin, he is. 

Paladin
can pull off all three tech combos alone, thats really something as
well as being the only real tank sentinel because of self healing, and
dealing decent dps because of well synergized moves, plus crowd control
because of tech burst, fire splosions, and cryo splosions.

You have to really be nitpicking to have a problem with this class.

Actually, the class that is defined as combining tech and biotics without a single biotic ability isn't nitpicking. It's pointing out the obvious. That's like making a Soldier with all biotic abilities and saying it's not an Adept. (see the above, "all these classes are technically soldiers" statement.)




I don't have a problem with the N7 Slayer Vanguard, as in single-player, Ammo Powers are considered Combat abilities (the Vanguard has Cryo and Incendiary), but since they were modified to suit all the classes, and were given an increased weight capacity, I consider their Combat aspect to be the weight bonus, but also, the N7 Slayer Vanguard and N7 Shadow Infiltrator use giant swords....that to me is the Combat aspect of this argument. Before you say that guns would also be considered Combat by that logic - you're wrong. That goes back to the whole "soldier vs Soldier" argument.



And Tech Armor is a Tech ability. If the N7 Paladin Sentinel had Barrier, there'd be no problem with it. Instead, it's an Engineer, that doesn't have any reason to be in the Sentinel category.

EVERY Sentinel descriptor talks about the combination of Tech and Biotic powers. So yes, not having Biotic powers is a very large red flag.


In addition, every OTHER new class has at least 2 abilities and a unique melees.

The N7 Slayer Vanguard and N7 Fury Adept get to roll through walls, the N7 Destroyer Soldier has a floor stomp, the N7 Shadow Infiltrator has a disappearing slash, and the N7 Paladin Sentinel gets a giant shield.


Okay, cool, they all get unique melees.


How about new abilities?

N7 Fury Adept - Annihilation Field and Dark Channel (yes, it was in SP, but it is unique to this MP class)
N7 Destroyer Soldier - Destroyer Mode, Missile Launcher, MultiFrag Grenade (that's THREE unique abilites)
N7 Demolisher Engineer - Supply Pylon and Homing Grenade (two abilities)
N7 Shadow Infiltrator - Electric Slash and Shadow Strike (yes, was in ME2, but it is still unique)
N7 Slayer Vanguard - Phase Disruptor and Biotic Slash (once again, two abilities)


So the N7 Paladin Sentinel gets...Snap Freeze...and...? Nothing. Didn't have to be a brand new Biotic ability, but a biotic for a class that "combines Tech and Biotic powers..." to have.


It's not an absurd concern at all.

Modifié par gh0st wh1sp3r, 14 juillet 2012 - 09:40 .

[Drayce333]

gh0st wh1sp3r wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Lol, paladin is a sentinel...he fits the description of sentinel.

People getting caught up in semantics makes me laugh.

This is the whole rectangle/square argument.

Every sentinel is an engineer, but every engineer isnt a sentinel.

Your argument is a fallacy. That's not how that works, they don't share the same correlative elements in order to use the square/rectangle argument.

Technically, all these classes are soldiers, if you want to put it that way. There's a difference between a soldier and a Soldier. Think about it.

darkblade wrote...

Qror_pl wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Pull is garbage and throw is worthless against armor.

The
sentinels have been about utility. You can and I have made effective
sentinels in SP by skipping either all biotics or all tech powers. Only
game you couldnt do that on was ME2 because you only had a few powers.

The
theme of Sentinel has been helping the team gain and maintain ground
with the possibility of tech and biotics to further that end. Why do
they all have to be shoe horned into having bad self synergy just to
satisfy players who take maybes as absolutes?

Somewhere
in game or on wiki it says that "sentinels are masters of armament" or
osmething like that, so yeah they are more support class which should
focus on their weapons rather then powers (maybe exept for human and
turian sentinel and batarian sentinel, who can do Tech bursts and BE on
their own)

Dont remember that, i remember them being referred to masters of battlefield control. Which looking at paladin, he is. 

Paladin
can pull off all three tech combos alone, thats really something as
well as being the only real tank sentinel because of self healing, and
dealing decent dps because of well synergized moves, plus crowd control
because of tech burst, fire splosions, and cryo splosions.

You have to really be nitpicking to have a problem with this class.

Actually, the class that is defined as combining tech and biotics without a single biotic ability isn't nitpicking. It's pointing out the obvious. That's like making a Soldier with all biotic abilities and saying it's not an Adept. (see the above, "all these classes are technically soldiers" statement.)




I don't have a problem with the N7 Slayer Vanguard, as in single-player, Ammo Powers are considered Combat abilities (the Vanguard has Cryo and Incendiary), but since they were modified to suit all the classes, and were given an increased weight capacity, I consider their Combat aspect to be the weight bonus, but also, the N7 Slayer Vanguard and N7 Shadow Infiltrator use giant swords....that to me is the Combat aspect of this argument. Before you say that guns would also be considered Combat by that logic - you're wrong. That goes back to the whole "soldier vs Soldier" argument.



And Tech Armor is a Tech ability. If the N7 Paladin Sentinel had Barrier, there'd be no problem with it. Instead, it's an Engineer, that doesn't have any reason to be in the Sentinel category.

EVERY Sentinel descriptor talks about the combination of Tech and Biotic powers. So yes, not having Biotic powers is a very large red flag.


In addition, every OTHER new class has at least 2 abilities and a unique melees.

The N7 Slayer Vanguard and N7 Fury Adept get to roll through walls, the N7 Destroyer Soldier has a floor stomp, the N7 Shadow Infiltrator has a disappearing slash, and the N7 Paladin Sentinel gets a giant shield.


Okay, cool, they all get unique melees.


How about new abilities?

N7 Fury Adept - Annihilation Field and Dark Channel (yes, it was in SP, but it is unique to this MP class)
N7 Destroyer Soldier - Destroyer Mode, Missile Launcher, MultiFrag Grenade (that's THREE unique abilites)
N7 Demolisher Engineer - Supply Pylon and Homing Grenade (two abilities)
N7 Shadow Infiltrator - Electric Slash and Shadow Strike (yes, was in ME2, but it is still unique)
N7 Slayer Vanguard - Phase Disruptor and Biotic Slash (once again, two abilities)


So the N7 Paladin Sentinel gets...Snap Freeze...and...? Nothing. Didn't have to be a brand new Biotic ability, but a biotic for a class that "combines Tech and Biotic powers..." to have.


It's not an absurd concern at all.

Snap freeze is also actually Flamer but with ice/chill/freezing. They really did drop the ball on this sentinel.

[ReflectedRed]

Novaguard is full biotic. It would have ammo powers in SP but nevertheless it is full biotic in multiplayer. "Charge is a biotic power exclusive to Vanguards..." + shockwave and nova, so all 3 powers are biotics.

Maybe you should create a new topic about that.

[lexiconicle]

Batarians and Vorcha fit in with my Sentinel model: I don't have any inclination to use them. Sentinels never seemed that interesting, similar to soldiers, their polar opposite.

Now I can't wait to use them. I call that progress.

[landylan]

Reave's damage resistance would be very cool.

[Atheosis]

The Seninel strikes me as an Engineer with a novelty melee/shield combo. The complete lack of biotics doesn't sit well with me at all, and if you ask me, Incinerate should've been Warp or Energy Drain should've been Reave. Overall the class looks kind of lame right now.

[Drayce333]

ReflectedRed wrote...

Novaguard is full biotic. It would have ammo powers in SP but nevertheless it is full biotic in multiplayer. "Charge is a biotic power exclusive to Vanguards..." + shockwave and nova, so all 3 powers are biotics.

Maybe you should create a new topic about that.

Vanguard are primarily up close biotic users.

Adepts are range biotic users with crowd control and much better with BE combining.

[Atheosis]

Now that I think about it a bit more, Barrier in place of Incinerate would have been perfect. Having a biotic armor power rather tan a tech one, while having tech offense, would've been a nice change of pace while still maintaining the Sentinel feel. As it is now, the Paladin feels less like a Sentinel than the Vorcha Sentinel, and that's kind of sad.

[ValorOfArms777]

One that keeps guard; a sentry.
tr.v. sen·ti·neled or sen·ti·nelled, sen·ti·nel·ing or sen·ti·nel·ling, sen·ti·nels
1. To watch over as a guard.
2. To provide with a guard.
3. To post as a guard.

his powers do happen to cause a tech burst with itself notably Cryo Explosion OR Fire explosion I and his energy drain can SET those off all his powers can be initiated of "Tech burst" "Cryo Exp" and "Fire Exp" and he fit description as the DEFENDER! I have no clue wtf you really techcnialy mean per say yeah yeah most use a biotic mix but you know Sentinel don't HAVE to be just Biotics ya know they have been the more defensive class notable on Tech Armor and Blade Armor he fits his role correctly engineers come with unique "abilites" Decoy/Drone/Turret/(Grenade Pylon) they are utility experts just like adepts are warrior biotics with specialism defenses sometimes Infiltrators are stealth recon vanguards are extremely offensive defensive biotics soldier is the big bang warrior using the tech

so the Paladin MATCHES his role who cares about "Biotic" explosions man tech bursts/fire exp/cryo exp AND shield draining make shim the ..TANK just like most of them and you all know I'm right on this between all his abilities he can "Stop foes" burn them drain their shields AND his heavy Melee represents his ultimate defensive stature to block he is the the very definition of a Sentinel the only Sentinel that's not really sentinaly is the Vorcha... then again he still has a regeneration ability making that also defensive the soldier is a tough guy he's supposed to take a few blows so Vorcha themselves are a cross variation carnage mostly belongs to soldiers but the Krogaurd uses it too and he's a BIOTIC user ..seeing a thing going on? anybody can techcnialy use tech... but biotics are seldom to those with the capabilities so Sentinel is not the only mixture setting also due note it's unknown if snapefreeze is a biotic power since biotics can technically be enhanced to do strange things or tech/biotics can be merged into one...

[Atheosis]

ValorOfArms777 wrote...

One that keeps guard; a sentry.
tr.v. sen·ti·neled or sen·ti·nelled, sen·ti·nel·ing or sen·ti·nel·ling, sen·ti·nels
1. To watch over as a guard.
2. To provide with a guard.
3. To post as a guard.

his powers do happen to cause a tech burst with itself notably Cryo Explosion OR Fire explosion I and his energy drain can SET those off all his powers can be initiated of "Tech burst" "Cryo Exp" and "Fire Exp" and he fit description as the DEFENDER! I have no clue wtf you really techcnialy mean per say yeah yeah most use a biotic mix but you know Sentinel don't HAVE to be just Biotics ya know they have been the more defensive class notable on Tech Armor and Blade Armor he fits his role correctly engineers come with unique "abilites" Decoy/Drone/Turret/(Grenade Pylon) they are utility experts just like adepts are warrior biotics with specialism defenses sometimes Infiltrators are stealth recon vanguards are extremely offensive defensive biotics soldier is the big bang warrior using the tech

so the Paladin MATCHES his role who cares about "Biotic" explosions man tech bursts/fire exp/cryo exp AND shield draining make shim the ..TANK just like most of them and you all know I'm right on this between all his abilities he can "Stop foes" burn them drain their shields AND his heavy Melee represents his ultimate defensive stature to block he is the the very definition of a Sentinel the only Sentinel that's not really sentinaly is the Vorcha... then again he still has a regeneration ability making that also defensive the soldier is a tough guy he's supposed to take a few blows so Vorcha themselves are a cross variation carnage mostly belongs to soldiers but the Krogaurd uses it too and he's a BIOTIC user ..seeing a thing going on? anybody can techcnialy use tech... but biotics are seldom to those with the capabilities so Sentinel is not the only mixture setting also due note it's unknown if snapefreeze is a biotic power since biotics can technically be enhanced to do strange things or tech/biotics can be merged into one...

I'm sorry but how does the Paladin match that definition again?  I'm not following.

And just so you know, Sentinels are supposed to be Tech/Biotic combo classes with defensive abilities in Mass Effect.  Dictionary definitions do not trump tradition conventions of the franchise.

The Paladin is an Engineer masquearding as a Sentinel as far as I'm concerned.

[adneate]

I loved the Sentinel class through all 3 games and I even like the Paladin from what I've see but I agree with the sentiment that the Sentinel class in MP has really started to lose the thread of what the archetype is supposed to be about. It was Biotics / Tech, Jack of all Trades but master of none, the initial Sentinels were pretty decent. The Turian in particular felt exactly how a Sentinel should, the DLCs however haven't really added any Sentinels that were anything like the Turian Sentinel, instead it seems like the class has degenerated from Biotic / Tech to just generic tanky classes. It's one thing to have a character that defies the archetype or has something very novel and unique about them but it's another to have the majority of the characters not conform to the archetype in a meaningful way.

The majority of the Sentinel characters at best pay lip service to the Tech / Biotic concept with things like "Biotic" grenades. The Paladin doesn't even pretend to conform it's all Tech no Biotics at all not even bad ones.

[Variasaber]

The Sentinel's role has always been support. The limitation to 3 powers per class in multiplayer really makes it hard to make a good Sentinel with a balance of Tech and Biotic powers, so the fact that the Paladin will have 3 Tech powers isn't that bad (I do think it's silly that he's getting Incinerate, but oh well). From what we've seen of that omnishield, it appears to be best for a support role -- absorb bullets while covering someone dealing with a device, block a doorway while your teammates retreat, etc. Plus Sentinels are intended to have great survivability, which it looks like this one will have quite well given the omnishield and Shield Drain. I wonder if you can use powers with the omnishield up?

IMO, all is well with what we've seen of the Paladin. Final judgement can wait until the thing actually comes out.

The past two new Sentinels are much more problematic. I think it's stupid that they have the same survivability as their Soldier counterparts. There's no reason to play a Batarian Sentinel over a Batarian Soldier given that their resilience is the same, and the Soldier has Ballistic Blades which is an absolutely kickass power.

[dzero]

MIA115 wrote...

The Paladin is an engineer in the same way that the human Sentinels are adepts. They just focus on different sides of the class.

I could accept that if the Paladin had barrier.

[adneate]

MIA115 wrote...
The Paladin is an engineer in the same way that the human Sentinels are adepts. They just focus on different sides of the class.

Which I'm fine with except the Human Sentinel does have tech armor which is, obviously, a tech power. The Paladin doesn't even have a token Biotic power or one that is "technically" one. You can't get a single biotic kill with this Sentinel.

As a fan of the class that bothers me.

[TheInvicibleCandyBar]

Wow, this argument is still going on? You guys know that in ME1 and 2, as Shep, you never had to pick both tech and biotics. Even in those games, you could be an all tech sentinal or an all biotic one. What yer doing right now is nitpicking. I think it's cool that we have an all tech sentinal. Oh, and if it helps, just equip warp rounds. Their you go!