243 réponses à ce sujet

[darkblade]

Stardusk wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

xis3 wrote...

No DR, no biotics and can't move with shield .

Snape freeze will need to be very good or else this class is allready broken.

I won't use the word broken but Snapfreeze is my major concern. Based on brief footage it looks like a frostthrower essentially but based on reports on Platinum there are few enemies on health so if you cannot freeze shielded enemies and/or create massive debuffs, this power could be useless on Platinum or next to useless. Add that to being able to take less damage on Platinum and this class could be very bad indeed, we will have to wait and see but it does not look promising.

I honestly doubt the class will work on platinum, but thats not a big deal at all.

only thing that really concerns me is that they missed an opporituninty to make an instant travel fire ability.

It is a huge deal. A new class that is not workable on Platinum. That is a big deal.

Tis not a big deal, something not being viable on a mode meant to be hell in digital form is not a big deal. Complaining about something being not viable on platinum is like complaining that people kick your from raids in wow when you have doo doo gear that will severly hinder the team.

Platinum is for the hardcore challenge seekers. Even is the class is terribad on platinum someone will try it an eventually find some success.

If it holds in silver, it'll hold in gold and if it cant hold in platinum...to bad so sad. Balancing stuff to try and keep up with the tripe that goes on in platinum is really bad idea.

[darkblade]

Variasaber wrote...

A question for you all: Is the Sentinel your preferred class?
If so, I'm ashamed to share a favorite class with the sort of people who spend 7 pages of a forum thread debating whether or not a character that hasn't even been released yet is an exemplary representation of that class as a whole.

Well im sorry that you feel the need to feel ashamed at liking the same class as I. 

I don't understand what you have to be ashamed of though. 

I'm definitely not ashamed to defend my point of view that a sentinel doesnt need biotic and tech.

[Deadlysyns]

darkblade wrote...

Variasaber wrote...

A question for you all: Is the Sentinel your preferred class?
If so, I'm ashamed to share a favorite class with the sort of people who spend 7 pages of a forum thread debating whether or not a character that hasn't even been released yet is an exemplary representation of that class as a whole.

Well im sorry that you feel the need to feel ashamed at liking the same class as I. 

I don't understand what you have to be ashamed of though. 

I'm definitely not ashamed to defend my point of view that a sentinel doesnt need biotic and tech.

The Sentinel does need biotic and Tech its what they are built for says so in description thats like saying i can play Golf and hockey but you go on a Hockey Team and can't skate 

[GaryMaple]

The human sentinel has all biotic powers save tech armor. Why are people getting their panties in a twist all of a sudden over the new guy on the block only having tech? This guy is still at his core a support character.

Besides, the best sentinel is still the Turian.

[Deadlysyns]

GaryMaple wrote...

The human sentinel has all biotic powers save tech armor. Why are people getting their panties in a twist all of a sudden over the new guy on the block only having tech? This guy is still at his core a support character.

Besides, the best sentinel is still the Turian.

Tech armor is still a Tech power. If you say something is this way it should always be this way 

[BloodClaw95]

Stardusk wrote...

Hey, who cares?

This has nothing to do with nerfing. gtfo.

[Impulse and Compulse]

In case you haven't noticed, this is a consistent pattern throughout all of the games, as the classes became a beast of their own instead of true hybrid or specialty classes. Vanguards have lost most of their combat abilities, Infiltrators are still tech-rooted but are tied with the soldier as the class most reliant on gunplay, and Sentinels have come the farthest, from a class that was designed as a support class that has no place in front-line combat to actually being the biggest tank on the team. I'm not sure whether I like it, but I'll agree that the Turian Sentinel both fits the Sentinel idea with his abilities while being the most popular sentinel, so there's definitely something to be gained by going down that route.

[gh0st wh1sp3r]

darkblade wrote...

Your argument is a fallacy. That's not how that works, they don't share the same correlative elements in order to use the square/rectangle argument.

Technically, all these classes are soldiers, if you want to put it that way. There's a difference between a soldier and a Soldier. Think about it.

Tis a lie.

There's no fallacy here, and they infact do share the same correlative elements for this comparison.

A rectangle is any quadrilateral with four sides and four right angles. A square is any any quadrilateral with four sides and four right angles and all sides are the same length.

Therefore all squares are rectangles.

An engineer is a class with the capacity to use tech powers, but they only use tech powers. A sentinel is a class with the capacity to use tech or biotic powers but may supplement them with tech or biotics....MAY.

Therefore all sentinels are  Adepts and/or engineers but all engineers and adepts arent sentinels

But that really isnt the argument here.

Except no one is playing it that way, im talking strictly class wise and you straw grasping with something stupidly obvious. Try to stay focused here okay?

Actually, the class that is defined as combining tech and biotics without a single biotic ability isn't nitpicking. It's pointing out the obvious. That's like making a Soldier with all biotic abilities and saying it's not an Adept. (see the above, "all these classes are technically soldiers" statement.)

It's nitpicking because you are taking a description which started as ambiguous and attempting to shoehorn it into being a constant truth. The simply fact is that ME1 stated that sentinels CAN bring tech and biotics, not all sentinels use both tech and biotics, not sentinels have tech and biotics but rather they have the capacity for tech and biotics. And since ME2 to ME3 sentinel has become the heavy support role, focused more on the description of their role rather than the composition of their powers. Allowing bioware to create more diverse setups without trying to force powers where they have no business.

I don't have a problem with the N7 Slayer Vanguard, as in single-player, Ammo Powers are considered Combat abilities (the Vanguard has Cryo and Incendiary), but since they were modified to suit all the classes, and were given an increased weight capacity, I consider their Combat aspect to be the weight bonus, but also, the N7 Slayer Vanguard and N7 Shadow Infiltrator use giant swords....that to me is the Combat aspect of this argument. Before you say that guns would also be considered Combat by that logic - you're wrong. That goes back to the whole "soldier vs Soldier" argument.

Nice straw man, this has nothing to do with what im talking about. And you contradicted yourself. You are complaining that Paladin isnt a sentinel because it has no biotic, but then claim that the slayer is a vanguard because of its melee...even though only ONE VANGUARD HAS A COMBAT ABILITY.

And heres where its really funny, The sentinel classes motif is defending the squad his melee is a persistent shield, yet youre so biased that the vanguard with no combat powers is a vanguard because of his combat orientated melee, but the sentinel isnt a sentinel despite his defense orientated melee. You can't seriously believe the words your typing?

And Tech Armor is a Tech ability. If the N7 Paladin Sentinel had Barrier, there'd be no problem with it. Instead, it's an Engineer, that doesn't have any reason to be in the Sentinel category.

"The Sentinel is able to combine tech and biotics to manipulate the environment, disable and track enemies, or defend the party. Gameplay focus is on protecting the party using kinetic barriers and healing it with advanced medical training."

ABLE TO BRING BOTH BIOTICS AND TECH. Not has to.

paladin fits, both the ME definition of what a sentinels squad role is and the literal meaning of a sentinel.

EVERY Sentinel descriptor talks about the combination of Tech and Biotic powers. So yes, not having Biotic powers is a very large red flag.

Yet none mandate it as a nessesity, and with since ME2 and ME3 descriptions refer mainly to the fact that you will be playing as Shepard who does have access to both trees in SP means they have no merit in MP.

By your own logic only three sentinels are sentinels because only three have tech armor, and tech armor is specifically mention in two out of three descriptions for the class. You dont have TA you arent a sentinel according to ME2 and ME3. The only descriptions for classes that hold any weight at all anymore are from ME1.

So the N7 Paladin Sentinel gets...Snap Freeze...and...? Nothing. Didn't have to be a brand new Biotic ability, but a biotic for a class that "combines Tech and Biotic powers..." to have.

Now we to your actually problem...took long enough. So youre just brooding over the fact that the class only has 1 new power? Why...It has 2 unique melees(hell should be consider a power), a unique power, and the one of the best damn tech spreads (if they fix the freeze combo). Yes it would have been cool to see another unique power, but its not a big deal. And Its certianly nowhere near gamebreaking for me.

It's not an absurd concern at all.

It really is because its based in a bunch of false information and none what your saying would benefit the class at all.

Actually, none of my statements are logically unsound. You're the one using backdoor logic. The fact is, the class is based on a combination of tech and biotics. This one has no biotics. You're talking about justifying it with a lack of potential.

An Infiltrator is classically a sniper, but this one still combines tech (Tactical Cloak) with combat oriented abilities (Shadow Strike & Electric Slash.) Yes, I consider the combat category to be separate, based on the use of real-world combat abilities like swordplay, and I focus the argument on having defining abilities that make it unique the the class.

Vanguards have close-range biotics that give it completely separate gameplay from Adepts. Sure, Adepts don't have to actually detonate anything, but their class is spec'ed to allow them to do so. So an Adept could run around with just a gun. That's fine. Doesn't make it useful. Its close-range biotic moves separate it from its Adept and Soldier kin.

Infiltrators are built around invisibility, which distinguishes it from Soldiers and Engineers. While Engineers spawn drones, turrets, and focus on shield/barrier overloading abilities, the Infiltrator focuses on stealth, with unique combinations that allow it to sneak around the battlefield.

Soldiers focus on weapon/gun/grenade/melee damage.

Adepts focus on biotic detonations.

Engineers focus on tech explosions and spawning tech assistants.



So if you want to argue that the Sentinel is built around survivability and keeping alive, what abilities does this new Sentinel have that separates it from an Engineer?  No Tech Armor to boost its shields. And no Biotics to supplement its tech abilities (which you have labeled as a non-requirement, just as Vanguards would technically not have to have biotics in your world.)

None. That's right. None.


And you shouldn't throw around idioms such as "Straw Man" without them actually being apt in the first place.

[gh0st wh1sp3r]

ValorOfArms777 wrote...

One that keeps guard; a sentry.
tr.v. sen·ti·neled or sen·ti·nelled, sen·ti·nel·ing or sen·ti·nel·ling, sen·ti·nels
1. To watch over as a guard.
2. To provide with a guard.
3. To post as a guard.

his powers do happen to cause a tech burst with itself notably Cryo Explosion OR Fire explosion I and his energy drain can SET those off all his powers can be initiated of "Tech burst" "Cryo Exp" and "Fire Exp" and he fit description as the DEFENDER! I have no clue wtf you really techcnialy mean per say yeah yeah most use a biotic mix but you know Sentinel don't HAVE to be just Biotics ya know they have been the more defensive class notable on Tech Armor and Blade Armor he fits his role correctly engineers come with unique "abilites" Decoy/Drone/Turret/(Grenade Pylon) they are utility experts just like adepts are warrior biotics with specialism defenses sometimes Infiltrators are stealth recon vanguards are extremely offensive defensive biotics soldier is the big bang warrior using the tech

so the Paladin MATCHES his role who cares about "Biotic" explosions man tech bursts/fire exp/cryo exp AND shield draining make shim the ..TANK just like most of them and you all know I'm right on this between all his abilities he can "Stop foes" burn them drain their shields AND his heavy Melee represents his ultimate defensive stature to block he is the the very definition of a Sentinel the only Sentinel that's not really sentinaly is the Vorcha... then again he still has a regeneration ability making that also defensive the soldier is a tough guy he's supposed to take a few blows so Vorcha themselves are a cross variation carnage mostly belongs to soldiers but the Krogaurd uses it too and he's a BIOTIC user ..seeing a thing going on? anybody can techcnialy use tech... but biotics are seldom to those with the capabilities so Sentinel is not the only mixture setting also due note it's unknown if snapefreeze is a biotic power since biotics can technically be enhanced to do strange things or tech/biotics can be merged into one...

Wow. I'm sorry, but that was one of the dumbest attempts at being smart I've ever seen. First of all, I am not calling you dumb. I'm saying what you said was dumb.

The "Sentinel" class is different from being an actual sentinel. They gave it that name, because they had no idea what to say instead of "the class that combines Tech and Biotics." Just as the "Adept" class doesn't actually mean, "the class that is good at stuff."

The "Sentinel" doesn't actually have to be a tank at anything. It was a tank because of: ME1's ability to heal teammates and take damage via Barrier, plus keep enemies away with throw. Then in ME2, they expanded that to the Tech Armor ability, allowing the class to tank and provide the team with biotic setups, detonations, and tech abilities that allow it to deal with every type of defense --------> guarding and protecting the team via removing the enemies defenses of ALL types.

The Vorcha Sentinel is a "Sentinel" because it combines Tech (Flamer) with Biotics (Cluster Grenade.) Just as a "Vanguard" actually isn't required by gamer code to rush in first, since I'm the one kiting the Banshees on Gold, while everyone else panics. And an "Infiltrator" doesn't actually have to ever use their Tactical Cloak. It's just a name given to a class specialized around the two combined abilities.

class dismissed.

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

Wow,
this argument is still going on? You guys know that in ME1 and 2, as
Shep, you never had to pick both tech and biotics. Even in those games,
you could be an all tech sentinal or an all biotic one. What yer doing
right now is nitpicking. I think it's cool that we have an all tech
sentinal. Oh, and if it helps, just equip warp rounds. Their you
go!

What a great argument! Who could expect any less
from someone who thinks "their" and "there" are one and the same and
"Sentinel" has an "a" in it?

Not spec'ing into powers by choice
is not the same as not being able to spec into powers by design, and I
feel like I'm typing to a kindergartener having to explain that. You
could choose not to spec into any powers for any class in the previous
games too: does that make your Shepard an Assault Trooper?

Let's
get real. If they gave an Engineer Singularity people would flip out.
And this isn't too far off from that when Sentinels have always been
explicitly DEFINED by their ability to utilize Tech and Biotic powers.
It's a little beyond just nitpicking.

First off, yer an ****.
Second, attacking my grammar is pretty childish, and lends no credence
to yer argument. Thirdly, giving an engineer singularity is completely
different than having a sentinal be all tech. Yer arguing about
something that will not be changed, and being very rude about it. Maybe
someone needs to go back and learn the "if you have nothin' nice to say"
rule that I learned in kindhergarden!

I
guess that's where your learning stopped though? Being a condescending
scumbag and yet displaying the intelligence of a twelve year old is
something you should expect to be called out on. People have as much
right to complain about the lore being broken in regards to the
established class archetypes as they do about resurrecting Protheans for
multiplayer, and if you want to act like that's petty then we can get
petty, kid.

The only thing tying Sentinels together and uniquely
defining them as a class has always been their ability to utilize Tech
and Biotic powers. The Mass Effect 1 Sentinel was not a tank, the Vorcha
Sentinel isn't a support class, but up until now, every single variant
of the Sentinel has lived up to every single instance of text Bioware
has written or typed to define the class: Biotics + Tech. And even with
only three powers, the multiplayer classes have done the same, so that
argument's void too.

Some people might not give a damn that they
took out the Biotics and turned this Sentinel into a glorified Engineer,
but some people are naturally - and rightfully - going to wonder wtf.
Some people wouldn't care if an Engineer had Barrier either, but that
wouldn't make it any less of a game-changer, and there's no disputing
the fact that Sentinels have always been capable of using Biotic and
Tech powers up until now, no matter what imaginary shifts in class
design people are arguing they've dreamt up prior to this point.

What
is yer problem? Did I unkowingly insult yer honor at some point in my
life? because frankly, I have never had a conversation with you before,
but it seems that yer either a very mean person, or yer just pissed off
at something IRL. If that's the case, you might wanna take a break for a
while and cool down.

And I don't believe they took out biotics
to tick people off, they are just trying to make a new and interesting
character that people may want to try. If it irks you that much, then
just either ignore the class, or give it Warp Ammo, so it then has
something biotic. Oh, and if this has really made you angry, then why
haven't you made a thread about how Shepard should not be able to take
biotic bonus powers in SP if he is a soldier or infiltrator? Right there
is proof that even in the SP, some Sheps use everything even when their
class says they can't.

This is not single player. This is multiplayer, first off.

Let's recap:

Adept = pure biotics
Soldier = pure combat
Engineer = pure tech

With me so far?

Vanguard = biotics/combat (yes, a close-ranged biotic, but combat versions of biotics)
Infiltrator = tech/combat

Sentinel = tech/biotics.

If you don't see the problem with a tech/biotics class without biotics, then I can't help you think.

But yes, you should use a spellcheck feature, once in a while.

[darkblade]

Deadlysyns wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Variasaber wrote...

A question for you all: Is the Sentinel your preferred class?
If so, I'm ashamed to share a favorite class with the sort of people who spend 7 pages of a forum thread debating whether or not a character that hasn't even been released yet is an exemplary representation of that class as a whole.

Well im sorry that you feel the need to feel ashamed at liking the same class as I. 

I don't understand what you have to be ashamed of though. 

I'm definitely not ashamed to defend my point of view that a sentinel doesnt need biotic and tech.

The Sentinel does need biotic and Tech its what they are built for says so in description thats like saying i can play Golf and hockey but you go on a Hockey Team and can't skate 

Um no it doesn't NEED biotic and tech, and no their description doesnt say they NEED biotic and tech nor do the descriptions say they have to have both. The only description that is really worth its salt anymore  is the ME1 descriptions which say the class (not every individual) is ABLE TO (not has to) bring tech and biotic to manipulate the battlefield, track enemies OR defend the party. The others say that sentinels also have advanced armor/shield systems.

So once again check list.

N7 Paladin

Tech: check
Biotics: nay
Crowd control: check
Enemy tracking: nay
Squad defense: Check
Advanced armor system: Check

Tis a sentinel.

Is it really so hard to understand that the class sentiel simply means a group of soldiers that consist of individuals of different skils but bring some combination of the above to the fight?

[Epsilon330]

It's not like this is new. Since ME2 you could spec the Sentinel to be either all Tech or all Biotics.
All Tech worked quite well for me, even on Insanity.

[gh0st wh1sp3r]

CountryPayload5 wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

Again, you're making it up as you go along. Let's try reading, instead of pretending, shall we? Here's the link to the official class description that appears on the wiki, in the game guides, in the game itself, and everywhere else that matters:

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Sentinel

Now what does it say under the Sentinel description for Mass Effect 3? "Sentinels are unique, bringing both tech and biotic abilities to the battlefield."

Not "capable of bringing both," not "bringing tech and/OR biotic abilities," and not unique in their support role. Unique in bringing BOTH tech AND biotic abilities to the battlefield, which every single Sentinel has done until this one, and which has been the ONLY common thread that EVERY Sentinel has shared. So no, not a variable. Get your facts straight. This Sentinel does not live up to that definition of the class that Bioware established. Sorry.

From the Wiki:
"The Sentinel is able to combine tech and biotics to manipulate the environment, disable and track enemies, or defend the party. Gameplay focus is on protecting the party usingkinetic barriers and healing it with advanced medical training. Kaidan Alenko is an L2 Sentinel.Sentinels are support-focused characters, possessing biotic and tech abilities mostly focused around controlling the battlefield and keeping the squad alive. They receive no specialized weapons or armor training, but are proficient with a pistol. The Sentinel is surprisingly durable, with access to many of the shield-increasing talents, along with the Barrier biotic ability."

Yes this quote if from the origional Mass Effect but this idea is the same (bold text applies here).

The goal of a sentinel is the party defender and tank, the paladin can do this withoug bionics and can do a lot to protect the party. They can cause all the tech based explosions, panic groups of enemies with incinerate, bolster their shields with energy drain, CC effectivly by freezing entire groups of enemies with snap freeze and they have the shield to guard their flanks.

The paladin does all of this without watering down the class with a pointless bionic skill. The powers it has work well for the  playstyle of the class and with the three power limit in multiplayer you don't have many effective options for combining bionic and tech skills without pointlessly throwing them together. I honestly we should wait and see how well this class can preform as a defender before we become nitpicks about how the class is built.

Your argument falls flat. If it doesn't matter to you, they could have given it Reave instead of Incinerate. Reave for area of effect, still allowing it to Tech-base the other two explosions. Drop Flame Explosion for Biotic Explosion. It's all the same to you.

Only this class doesn't actually have abilities that protect any group. None of its new abilites allow it to tank, even. At least previous Sentinels had some form of Armor. The Vorcha Sentinel's regenerative ability allows it to tank. By your definition of using Energy Drain or Reave, the Drell and Asari Adepts, along with both Salarians, are technically tanks, as well. And the Cryo Blast of the Quarian Engineer and her turret allow her to protect the group, so she's a tank/group protector, too.

Not the same thing, actually. This Paladin has no tanking abilities. Nor does it have "group protection abilities."

The only previous Sentinel without an armor was the Vorcha, and its Flamer allowed it to panic groups of enemies and the Cluster Grenade allowed it to sent enemies flying in all directions, breaking up groups of enemies. Crowd control, but completely different.

[darkblade]

gh0st wh1sp3r wrote...

ValorOfArms777 wrote...

One that keeps guard; a sentry.
tr.v. sen·ti·neled or sen·ti·nelled, sen·ti·nel·ing or sen·ti·nel·ling, sen·ti·nels
1. To watch over as a guard.
2. To provide with a guard.
3. To post as a guard.

his powers do happen to cause a tech burst with itself notably Cryo Explosion OR Fire explosion I and his energy drain can SET those off all his powers can be initiated of "Tech burst" "Cryo Exp" and "Fire Exp" and he fit description as the DEFENDER! I have no clue wtf you really techcnialy mean per say yeah yeah most use a biotic mix but you know Sentinel don't HAVE to be just Biotics ya know they have been the more defensive class notable on Tech Armor and Blade Armor he fits his role correctly engineers come with unique "abilites" Decoy/Drone/Turret/(Grenade Pylon) they are utility experts just like adepts are warrior biotics with specialism defenses sometimes Infiltrators are stealth recon vanguards are extremely offensive defensive biotics soldier is the big bang warrior using the tech

so the Paladin MATCHES his role who cares about "Biotic" explosions man tech bursts/fire exp/cryo exp AND shield draining make shim the ..TANK just like most of them and you all know I'm right on this between all his abilities he can "Stop foes" burn them drain their shields AND his heavy Melee represents his ultimate defensive stature to block he is the the very definition of a Sentinel the only Sentinel that's not really sentinaly is the Vorcha... then again he still has a regeneration ability making that also defensive the soldier is a tough guy he's supposed to take a few blows so Vorcha themselves are a cross variation carnage mostly belongs to soldiers but the Krogaurd uses it too and he's a BIOTIC user ..seeing a thing going on? anybody can techcnialy use tech... but biotics are seldom to those with the capabilities so Sentinel is not the only mixture setting also due note it's unknown if snapefreeze is a biotic power since biotics can technically be enhanced to do strange things or tech/biotics can be merged into one...

Wow. I'm sorry, but that was one of the dumbest attempts at being smart I've ever seen. First of all, I am not calling you dumb. I'm saying what you said was dumb.

The "Sentinel" class is different from being an actual sentinel. They gave it that name, because they had no idea what to say instead of "the class that combines Tech and Biotics." Just as the "Adept" class doesn't actually mean, "the class that is good at stuff."

The "Sentinel" doesn't actually have to be a tank at anything. It was a tank because of: ME1's ability to heal teammates and take damage via Barrier, plus keep enemies away with throw. Then in ME2, they expanded that to the Tech Armor ability, allowing the class to tank and provide the team with biotic setups, detonations, and tech abilities that allow it to deal with every type of defense --------> guarding and protecting the team via removing the enemies defenses of ALL types.

The Vorcha Sentinel is a "Sentinel" because it combines Tech (Flamer) with Biotics (Cluster Grenade.) Just as a "Vanguard" actually isn't required by gamer code to rush in first, since I'm the one kiting the Banshees on Gold, while everyone else panics. And an "Infiltrator" doesn't actually have to ever use their Tactical Cloak. It's just a name given to a class specialized around the two combined abilities.

class dismissed.

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

Wow,
this argument is still going on? You guys know that in ME1 and 2, as
Shep, you never had to pick both tech and biotics. Even in those games,
you could be an all tech sentinal or an all biotic one. What yer doing
right now is nitpicking. I think it's cool that we have an all tech
sentinal. Oh, and if it helps, just equip warp rounds. Their you
go!

What a great argument! Who could expect any less
from someone who thinks "their" and "there" are one and the same and
"Sentinel" has an "a" in it?

Not spec'ing into powers by choice
is not the same as not being able to spec into powers by design, and I
feel like I'm typing to a kindergartener having to explain that. You
could choose not to spec into any powers for any class in the previous
games too: does that make your Shepard an Assault Trooper?

Let's
get real. If they gave an Engineer Singularity people would flip out.
And this isn't too far off from that when Sentinels have always been
explicitly DEFINED by their ability to utilize Tech and Biotic powers.
It's a little beyond just nitpicking.

First off, yer an ****.
Second, attacking my grammar is pretty childish, and lends no credence
to yer argument. Thirdly, giving an engineer singularity is completely
different than having a sentinal be all tech. Yer arguing about
something that will not be changed, and being very rude about it. Maybe
someone needs to go back and learn the "if you have nothin' nice to say"
rule that I learned in kindhergarden!

I
guess that's where your learning stopped though? Being a condescending
scumbag and yet displaying the intelligence of a twelve year old is
something you should expect to be called out on. People have as much
right to complain about the lore being broken in regards to the
established class archetypes as they do about resurrecting Protheans for
multiplayer, and if you want to act like that's petty then we can get
petty, kid.

The only thing tying Sentinels together and uniquely
defining them as a class has always been their ability to utilize Tech
and Biotic powers. The Mass Effect 1 Sentinel was not a tank, the Vorcha
Sentinel isn't a support class, but up until now, every single variant
of the Sentinel has lived up to every single instance of text Bioware
has written or typed to define the class: Biotics + Tech. And even with
only three powers, the multiplayer classes have done the same, so that
argument's void too.

Some people might not give a damn that they
took out the Biotics and turned this Sentinel into a glorified Engineer,
but some people are naturally - and rightfully - going to wonder wtf.
Some people wouldn't care if an Engineer had Barrier either, but that
wouldn't make it any less of a game-changer, and there's no disputing
the fact that Sentinels have always been capable of using Biotic and
Tech powers up until now, no matter what imaginary shifts in class
design people are arguing they've dreamt up prior to this point.

What
is yer problem? Did I unkowingly insult yer honor at some point in my
life? because frankly, I have never had a conversation with you before,
but it seems that yer either a very mean person, or yer just pissed off
at something IRL. If that's the case, you might wanna take a break for a
while and cool down.

And I don't believe they took out biotics
to tick people off, they are just trying to make a new and interesting
character that people may want to try. If it irks you that much, then
just either ignore the class, or give it Warp Ammo, so it then has
something biotic. Oh, and if this has really made you angry, then why
haven't you made a thread about how Shepard should not be able to take
biotic bonus powers in SP if he is a soldier or infiltrator? Right there
is proof that even in the SP, some Sheps use everything even when their
class says they can't.

This is not single player. This is multiplayer, first off.

Let's recap:

Adept = pure biotics
Soldier = pure combat
Engineer = pure tech

With me so far?

Vanguard = biotics/combat (yes, a close-ranged biotic, but combat versions of biotics)
Infiltrator = tech/combat

Sentinel = tech/biotics.

If you don't see the problem with a tech/biotics class without biotics, then I can't help you think.

But yes, you should use a spellcheck feature, once in a while.

But only one vanguard has a combat power...yet you still call them vanguards. strange how that works. They make a sentinel in the same manner theyve made vanguards and now its a problem.

Where is the complaint thread for them.

Also since you can't refute the fact that in ME1 lore isnt it decreed that sentinels have to have tech and biotics your argument still falls flat. Because using the ME2 or 3 description simply cuts out more classes from being proper sentinels.

in the ME2 and ME3 where they do decree that they need to have biotics and tech, they also decree that a sentinel has advanced armor systems that can be exploded...instantly cutting the batarian and vorcha from the sentinel class.

By your logic that is.

Modifié par darkblade, 16 juillet 2012 - 06:43 .

[gh0st wh1sp3r]

Impulse and Compulse wrote...

In case you haven't noticed, this is a consistent pattern throughout all of the games, as the classes became a beast of their own instead of true hybrid or specialty classes. Vanguards have lost most of their combat abilities, Infiltrators are still tech-rooted but are tied with the soldier as the class most reliant on gunplay, and Sentinels have come the farthest, from a class that was designed as a support class that has no place in front-line combat to actually being the biggest tank on the team. I'm not sure whether I like it, but I'll agree that the Turian Sentinel both fits the Sentinel idea with his abilities while being the most popular sentinel, so there's definitely something to be gained by going down that route.

This. At the very least, this.

This new Sentinel neither fits the definition of combining Biotics/Tech, NOR does it actually have any tanking abilities this time around. No armor (Energy Drain isn't permanent, so don't give me that.)

Nothing sets it apart - it is an Engineer (tech burst based) with no distinguishing features that allow it to tank. It does not get a bonus to Shields that sets it apart from any other class that you just spec with Fitness at 6. And it doesn't even have the potential for Biotic abilities in multiplayer.

Sure, you could dump all your points into Flamer/Bloodlust and leave 0 on Cluster Grenade, but at least you have the personal option to do that. (And not the "then don't use the character" fallacy.)



And to both Dark Blade and TheInvicibleCandyBar, your posts have nothing to do with the original topic. Please start your own topic if you want to complain about me pointing out a logical inconsistency to the community.

[gh0st wh1sp3r]

darkblade wrote...

gh0st wh1sp3r wrote...

ValorOfArms777 wrote...

One that keeps guard; a sentry.
tr.v. sen·ti·neled or sen·ti·nelled, sen·ti·nel·ing or sen·ti·nel·ling, sen·ti·nels
1. To watch over as a guard.
2. To provide with a guard.
3. To post as a guard.

his powers do happen to cause a tech burst with itself notably Cryo Explosion OR Fire explosion I and his energy drain can SET those off all his powers can be initiated of "Tech burst" "Cryo Exp" and "Fire Exp" and he fit description as the DEFENDER! I have no clue wtf you really techcnialy mean per say yeah yeah most use a biotic mix but you know Sentinel don't HAVE to be just Biotics ya know they have been the more defensive class notable on Tech Armor and Blade Armor he fits his role correctly engineers come with unique "abilites" Decoy/Drone/Turret/(Grenade Pylon) they are utility experts just like adepts are warrior biotics with specialism defenses sometimes Infiltrators are stealth recon vanguards are extremely offensive defensive biotics soldier is the big bang warrior using the tech

so the Paladin MATCHES his role who cares about "Biotic" explosions man tech bursts/fire exp/cryo exp AND shield draining make shim the ..TANK just like most of them and you all know I'm right on this between all his abilities he can "Stop foes" burn them drain their shields AND his heavy Melee represents his ultimate defensive stature to block he is the the very definition of a Sentinel the only Sentinel that's not really sentinaly is the Vorcha... then again he still has a regeneration ability making that also defensive the soldier is a tough guy he's supposed to take a few blows so Vorcha themselves are a cross variation carnage mostly belongs to soldiers but the Krogaurd uses it too and he's a BIOTIC user ..seeing a thing going on? anybody can techcnialy use tech... but biotics are seldom to those with the capabilities so Sentinel is not the only mixture setting also due note it's unknown if snapefreeze is a biotic power since biotics can technically be enhanced to do strange things or tech/biotics can be merged into one...

Wow. I'm sorry, but that was one of the dumbest attempts at being smart I've ever seen. First of all, I am not calling you dumb. I'm saying what you said was dumb.

The "Sentinel" class is different from being an actual sentinel. They gave it that name, because they had no idea what to say instead of "the class that combines Tech and Biotics." Just as the "Adept" class doesn't actually mean, "the class that is good at stuff."

The "Sentinel" doesn't actually have to be a tank at anything. It was a tank because of: ME1's ability to heal teammates and take damage via Barrier, plus keep enemies away with throw. Then in ME2, they expanded that to the Tech Armor ability, allowing the class to tank and provide the team with biotic setups, detonations, and tech abilities that allow it to deal with every type of defense --------> guarding and protecting the team via removing the enemies defenses of ALL types.

The Vorcha Sentinel is a "Sentinel" because it combines Tech (Flamer) with Biotics (Cluster Grenade.) Just as a "Vanguard" actually isn't required by gamer code to rush in first, since I'm the one kiting the Banshees on Gold, while everyone else panics. And an "Infiltrator" doesn't actually have to ever use their Tactical Cloak. It's just a name given to a class specialized around the two combined abilities.

class dismissed.

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

No Snakes Alive wrote...

TheInvicibleCandyBar wrote...

Wow,
this argument is still going on? You guys know that in ME1 and 2, as
Shep, you never had to pick both tech and biotics. Even in those games,
you could be an all tech sentinal or an all biotic one. What yer doing
right now is nitpicking. I think it's cool that we have an all tech
sentinal. Oh, and if it helps, just equip warp rounds. Their you
go!

What a great argument! Who could expect any less
from someone who thinks "their" and "there" are one and the same and
"Sentinel" has an "a" in it?

Not spec'ing into powers by choice
is not the same as not being able to spec into powers by design, and I
feel like I'm typing to a kindergartener having to explain that. You
could choose not to spec into any powers for any class in the previous
games too: does that make your Shepard an Assault Trooper?

Let's
get real. If they gave an Engineer Singularity people would flip out.
And this isn't too far off from that when Sentinels have always been
explicitly DEFINED by their ability to utilize Tech and Biotic powers.
It's a little beyond just nitpicking.

First off, yer an ****.
Second, attacking my grammar is pretty childish, and lends no credence
to yer argument. Thirdly, giving an engineer singularity is completely
different than having a sentinal be all tech. Yer arguing about
something that will not be changed, and being very rude about it. Maybe
someone needs to go back and learn the "if you have nothin' nice to say"
rule that I learned in kindhergarden!

I
guess that's where your learning stopped though? Being a condescending
scumbag and yet displaying the intelligence of a twelve year old is
something you should expect to be called out on. People have as much
right to complain about the lore being broken in regards to the
established class archetypes as they do about resurrecting Protheans for
multiplayer, and if you want to act like that's petty then we can get
petty, kid.

The only thing tying Sentinels together and uniquely
defining them as a class has always been their ability to utilize Tech
and Biotic powers. The Mass Effect 1 Sentinel was not a tank, the Vorcha
Sentinel isn't a support class, but up until now, every single variant
of the Sentinel has lived up to every single instance of text Bioware
has written or typed to define the class: Biotics + Tech. And even with
only three powers, the multiplayer classes have done the same, so that
argument's void too.

Some people might not give a damn that they
took out the Biotics and turned this Sentinel into a glorified Engineer,
but some people are naturally - and rightfully - going to wonder wtf.
Some people wouldn't care if an Engineer had Barrier either, but that
wouldn't make it any less of a game-changer, and there's no disputing
the fact that Sentinels have always been capable of using Biotic and
Tech powers up until now, no matter what imaginary shifts in class
design people are arguing they've dreamt up prior to this point.

What
is yer problem? Did I unkowingly insult yer honor at some point in my
life? because frankly, I have never had a conversation with you before,
but it seems that yer either a very mean person, or yer just pissed off
at something IRL. If that's the case, you might wanna take a break for a
while and cool down.

And I don't believe they took out biotics
to tick people off, they are just trying to make a new and interesting
character that people may want to try. If it irks you that much, then
just either ignore the class, or give it Warp Ammo, so it then has
something biotic. Oh, and if this has really made you angry, then why
haven't you made a thread about how Shepard should not be able to take
biotic bonus powers in SP if he is a soldier or infiltrator? Right there
is proof that even in the SP, some Sheps use everything even when their
class says they can't.

This is not single player. This is multiplayer, first off.

Let's recap:

Adept = pure biotics
Soldier = pure combat
Engineer = pure tech

With me so far?

Vanguard = biotics/combat (yes, a close-ranged biotic, but combat versions of biotics)
Infiltrator = tech/combat

Sentinel = tech/biotics.

If you don't see the problem with a tech/biotics class without biotics, then I can't help you think.

But yes, you should use a spellcheck feature, once in a while.

But only one vanguard has a combat power...yet you still call them vanguards. strange how that works. They make a sentinel in the same manner theyve made vanguards and now its a problem.

Where is the complaint thread for them.

Also since you can't refute the fact that in ME1 lore isnt it decreed that sentinels have to have tech and biotics your argument still falls flat. Because using the ME2 or 3 description simply cuts out more classes from being proper sentinels.

in the ME2 and ME3 where they do decree that they need to have biotics and tech, they also decree that a sentinel has advanced armor systems that can be exploded...instantly cutting the batarian and vorcha from the sentinel class.

By your logic that is.

You ignored the part where I stated that the Vanguards are centered around close-ranged biotics and Infiltrators are centered around stealth.

Sentinels are to be centered around "tanking" bit this new Sentinel has no ability to do that. Fine, so then let's use the classical definition of being able to bring BOTH tech and biotics to the field. This Sentinel has none.

By my logic, you don't read, as I have already explained the Vorcha and Batarian, and no, I never said that it needed Tech Armor to be a Sentinel. But Kaidan has Barrier, in addition to tech abilities.


Nice try.

[UkGouki]

Killmoves37 wrote...

Urdnot Trex wrote...

I'm wondering where they have been going with sentinels for a long time. He has the tank feature, but not the jack of all trades thing going for him. And he doesn't have a defensive power like all the other sentinels! On that note, what BW could make is: 




 Quarian Sentinel


Defense Matrix
Throw
Sabotage
Quarian Defender
Fitness

So far we only have 1 character in MP that uses sabotage, and i would really like to see its use in another class.
Defense matrix slows power usage, so to counter this I believe throw is a fair enough biotic talent, since it has a quick CD from the getgo. It isn't as overpowered as if it had energy drain, and I hope that a biotic talent as basic as throw wouldn't anger all the lore people that much. Just please don't create another biotic grenade sentinel class, two is plenty.

On another note, whether she gets this build or not, since it is a sentinel class which is based on "tanking" i really hope they would give her Tali's armor thats in the From Ashes dlc. The description even says something akin to Tali's suit is modified with armor reinforcement to better protect her from the elements.

If we could get a sentinel like this, a tanky jack-of-all-trades jiggly bum-bum, i would be very pleased indeed 

Can Quarians even use biotics? 

to answer can quarians use biotics the answer is yes in the codex of me a few members of reegers  team were biotic infiltraitors....  the last true quarian biotic users.

Edit: Quoted from meuniverse biotics According to Tali, quarian biotics are very rare. It is speculated that this is due to their life aboard the Migrant Fleet.
Element zero is such a rare resource that it is probably too precious
to be 'spent' on encouraging biotic potential in quarians, and because
the quarians live aboard ships, any engine accident severe enough to
release dust-form element zero would also be fatal to the crew.

Modifié par UkGouki, 16 juillet 2012 - 07:13 .

[Cyonan]

gh0st wh1sp3r wrote...
Sentinels are to be centered around "tanking" bit this new Sentinel has no ability to do that. Fine, so then let's use the classical definition of being able to bring BOTH tech and biotics to the field. This Sentinel has none.

So the ability to regenerate 100% of your shields and gain 40% damage reduction isn't a tanking ability?

I'm a bit curious as to what is a tanking ability, then.

[Core_Commander]

GGW KillerTiger wrote...

The reason the batarian and vorcha had the same skill(s) is because BioWare is falling in love with copy and paste options.

As for the N7 Sentinel. These new classes I believe were just given random "new skills" to try and make them seem "cool" so that may explain that?

So the trend at Bioware is both "love [for the] copy and paste options" AND new skills?

Paradox if there ever was one.

gh0st wh1sp3r wrote...
You ignored the part where I stated
that the Vanguards are centered around close-ranged biotics and
Infiltrators are centered around stealth.

Sentinels are to be
centered around "tanking" bit this new Sentinel has no ability to do
that. Fine, so then let's use the classical definition of being able to
bring BOTH tech and biotics to the field. This Sentinel has none.

By
my logic, you don't read, as I have already explained the Vorcha and
Batarian, and no, I never said that it needed Tech Armor to be a
Sentinel. But Kaidan has Barrier, in addition to tech abilities.

Nice try.

Ignoring the part where the new Sentinel has BOTH a huge shield and energy drain for tanking capability in order to make your point?

Not a nice try, too transparent.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 16 juillet 2012 - 07:27 .

[Stardusk]

Cyonan wrote...

gh0st wh1sp3r wrote...
Sentinels are to be centered around "tanking" bit this new Sentinel has no ability to do that. Fine, so then let's use the classical definition of being able to bring BOTH tech and biotics to the field. This Sentinel has none.

So the ability to regenerate 100% of your shields and gain 40% damage reduction isn't a tanking ability?

I'm a bit curious as to what is a tanking ability, then.

On Platinum a tank will be a class that can take 2 shots before its shields drop.

[Stardusk]

darkblade wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

darkblade wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

xis3 wrote...

No DR, no biotics and can't move with shield .

Snape freeze will need to be very good or else this class is allready broken.

I won't use the word broken but Snapfreeze is my major concern. Based on brief footage it looks like a frostthrower essentially but based on reports on Platinum there are few enemies on health so if you cannot freeze shielded enemies and/or create massive debuffs, this power could be useless on Platinum or next to useless. Add that to being able to take less damage on Platinum and this class could be very bad indeed, we will have to wait and see but it does not look promising.

I honestly doubt the class will work on platinum, but thats not a big deal at all.

only thing that really concerns me is that they missed an opporituninty to make an instant travel fire ability.

It is a huge deal. A new class that is not workable on Platinum. That is a big deal.

Tis not a big deal, something not being viable on a mode meant to be hell in digital form is not a big deal. Complaining about something being not viable on platinum is like complaining that people kick your from raids in wow when you have doo doo gear that will severly hinder the team.

Platinum is for the hardcore challenge seekers. Even is the class is terribad on platinum someone will try it an eventually find some success.

If it holds in silver, it'll hold in gold and if it cant hold in platinum...to bad so sad. Balancing stuff to try and keep up with the tripe that goes on in platinum is really bad idea.

Hardly. Balancing has always been centered round Gold, now that Platinum is the new Gold, it will likely be the standard because everything is viable on Gold>Silvier>Bronze. Balancing should take into account the new difficulty.

[Arppis]

Well this turned from mature to childish pretty fast.

[Mercedes595]

OK, to return to the actual topic, in my opinion the Sentinel is supposed to be a mix of a soldier (survivability, possible focus on weapons) and an adept/engineer (powers). I know in the original multiplayer it used to be mix of tech and biotic powers, but it seems Bioware is trying new combinations. And I agree with them. In most (random) games you see people playing as lone wolfs. Never trying to co-operate. If they give us exciting new characters lacking the power to detonate/setup their own explosions, it might be an attempt at forcing as to play more as a team.

I know this might be just a wild guess not meaning anything, but ... who knows.

Modifié par Mercedes595, 16 juillet 2012 - 08:03 .

[Drayce333]

Arppis wrote...

Well this turned from mature to childish pretty fast.

Whats funny is you can count how long till it became childish.

16 post.

[soulriss]

Urdnot Trex wrote...

I'm wondering where they have been going with sentinels for a long time. He has the tank feature, but not the jack of all trades thing going for him. And he doesn't have a defensive power like all the other sentinels! On that note, what BW could make is: 




 Quarian Sentinel


Defense Matrix
Throw
Sabotage
Quarian Defender
Fitness

So far we only have 1 character in MP that uses sabotage, and i would really like to see its use in another class.
Defense matrix slows power usage, so to counter this I believe throw is a fair enough biotic talent, since it has a quick CD from the getgo. It isn't as overpowered as if it had energy drain, and I hope that a biotic talent as basic as throw wouldn't anger all the lore people that much. Just please don't create another biotic grenade sentinel class, two is plenty.

On another note, whether she gets this build or not, since it is a sentinel class which is based on "tanking" i really hope they would give her Tali's armor thats in the From Ashes dlc. The description even says something akin to Tali's suit is modified with armor reinforcement to better protect her from the elements.

If we could get a sentinel like this, a tanky jack-of-all-trades jiggly bum-bum, i would be very pleased indeed 

very interesting idea ^^ I really love sabotage, and I was a little bit disappointed with Quarian Male Eng without it

{my opinion} I have to admitt that I have never understood why BW put Batarians and Vorcha as sentinels; and for me that was that the end of interesting sentinels {/my opinion}... but now I'm looking forward to playing as a Paladin, maybe some fresh air in sentinels

btw Drell Sentinel with Biotic Sphere, Barrier and some new tech power{electric one} (and of course with battle armour) would be awesome

[Eterna]

More importantly, who cares?