119 réponses à ce sujet

[v.lokai]

If your mages are not healing perhaps you need to raise the heal commands to higher priority. I have never had wynne or morrigan not heal at the preset level.



Ally health <50 heal

Self health <50 heal



Those are the top 2 commands typically. However for mages I will add a "self being attacked by melee: horror/paralyze/mindblast whatever spell you have horror is quick cast and useful as the very top command. Never had a issue with them not healing. I manually fire off group heal when the regular heal is on cooldown and I need it.



There are probably bugs in the tactics where something you have set conflicts or stops their routine. Similar to the dodge bug where a character dodges and it stops all combat and tactics until manually restarted.

[Viktor McCury]

Myte wrote...

I've played through 3 times now. Disabling tactics on the characters is the first thing I do,

I don't disable it but in the difficult fights I turn my party members to the puppet mode. I've never seen a a Game with a perfect AI. As a matter of fact, in most cases it annoys me much more than helping. I like the way it is in DA, the tatic slots work well if you stick to simple rules.

No tatic rule is better than your party manegement. Personally I love managing my party during combat.

[fchopin]

v.lokai wrote...

If your mages are not healing perhaps you need to raise the heal commands to higher priority. I have never had wynne or morrigan not heal at the preset level.

Ally health
Self health

Those are the top 2 commands typically. However for mages I will add a "self being attacked by melee: horror/paralyze/mindblast whatever spell you have horror is quick cast and useful as the very top command. Never had a issue with them not healing. I manually fire off group heal when the regular heal is on cooldown and I need it.

There are probably bugs in the tactics where something you have set conflicts or stops their routine. Similar to the dodge bug where a character dodges and it stops all combat and tactics until manually restarted.

You could be right, lots of times my mages stop attacking and just stand like idiots so this may be why they don’t heal or do what they are supposed to do.
 
This bug needs to be fixed asap as it is causing big problems.

[Gaidren]

My only complaint is not being able to queue up 3 or 4 things per person, like in NWN. I can't remember if the Baldur's Gate games had action queueing or not...I think KotoR did. It's so much better. I constantly pause the split second an ability goes off just to not waste time between abilities since a lot of them reset the auto-attack timer. Pretty big oversight in my opinion.



Otherwise the tactics system is fine. The only person I use detailed tactics with is my healer/buffer mage (Wynne).....everybody else I usually micromanage and just let them autoattack or maybe use 1-2 abilities on their own.

[boulderhammer]

badtim wrote...

i'm sorry, i really must be from an alient planet, but the blow-by-blow micro is the whole REASON i play these games.

i just wish there were six characters, so there would be more of it.

 I agree completely.

That said, my characters will quite often just stand there and chill in the midst of battle, especially after defeating the enemy they were fighting.
Still,  that's what the player is for.

[nicodeemus327]

The only real problem I had with tactics were compound statements. Besides that it worked pretty well for me. I was able to automate most of the things I didn't want to micro manage.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 17 décembre 2009 - 02:21 .

[Gecon]

Before you discuss anything further, download these mods:

Full Tactics

http://social.bioware.com/project/484/

Adv Tactics

http://social.bioware.com/project/861/

They should take care of most of your complaints, including the bug that people stop attacking.

Modifié par Gecon, 17 décembre 2009 - 02:26 .

[vickiediablos]

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

How amusing that those who do not agree with my opinion immediately dismiss it as "whining." You'd think I'd insulted their children or something...

Clearly the tactics system is not working if behaviour is set on aggressive and the character just stands still.. I understand how to use the tactics system, it just doesn't work as well as it should. And some of us prefer a more fluid game play experience and not pausing and micromanaging every second. I guess this game appeals to "control freaks."

I have the same issues. I ended up setting most at aggressive thinking that would solve the problem, but they just stand there (not in hold) as soon as the enemy moves. I even tried "Nearest visible: attack" on aggressive. Nope.

I don't mind pausing before every action; but as TriggerHappy said, the tactics system is not working as intended.

[Gecon]

Eshme wrote...

Any situation in this game is different, and a chain of commands like KOTOR would suffice. This new system is like saying an AI can beat hard difficulty alone, but would it then still be hard? And if it was, will an AI still take it on?

Err ... what "chain of commands" ?

All I remember from KotoR is that the only way to assert your commands where actually executed was to stay on the character in question. The moment you left for another character, the AI took over and could really void any of your commands for much more stupid ones. As it wasnt possible to write own AI scripts, to assign a passive AI script that did nothing on its own, or to disable AI altogether, you where often screwed by the AI.

To make a long list of complains short: KotoRs AI SUCKED BIG TIME (and made me curse loudly while playing, much like the bad waysearch) and DA's AI is certainly better than that (also in respect to waysearch, btw).

[Gecon]

Heldelance wrote...

Seriously if you can't learn how to manage your guys either pick a different game or stop whinging. [...]

The... the... the w-word ! BURN THE HERETIC !!!

[Sidney]

fchopin wrote...

You could be right, lots of times my mages stop attacking and just stand like idiots so this may be why they don’t heal or do what they are supposed to do.
 
This bug needs to be fixed asap as it is causing big problems.

My mages have never stopped fighting. If anything their worst habits are running up too close to a fight for no good reason). They stop fighting on if stunned or standing up from a knockdown but never display a lack of effort when they should be firing.

What version are people seeing the tactics problems on because I find it really hard to fathom that I'm not seeing a bug this pervasive - and I'm on the 360 version.

[Gecon]

v.lokai wrote...

If your mages are not healing perhaps you need to raise the heal commands to higher priority. I have never had wynne or morrigan not heal at the preset level.

Ally health
Self health

Already wrong, because the character should heal himself first. Dead healer is no good healer, ever.

I usually have on Wynne:

Self Health < 50% - Heal # Keeping herself up is a priority, of course
Tank Health < 90% - Regenerate # Tank gets priority for healing
Ally Health < 75% - Regenerate # Regenerate is MUCH better mana-wise than Heal !
Ally Health < 75% - Heal # Ok if Regenerate isnt enough, also Heal

And this works most of the time, except if I select the whole group and give the attack command.

[Zhijn]

I find the tactics to be just fine, sure it could use more adv options like better aoe control and such.



What i do is just set my party to only use their skills on certain mobs, like certain ranks, class, health status and support ect. If i set it up like that the AI dosnt seem to burn all the mana or stam right off the bat.



With a mage on elite or higher i usually go debuff, then staff dmg & party healing, and when the elite or boss go toward 50% health i spew out some damage spells. Usually it works, all depending if its a sofite or higher armor'd foe. =o



Skill/Spell: Attacking nearest visible - is the worst of em all. Shooozzes 0 mana/stam in the first 10 seconds, heh.

[fchopin]

Sidney wrote...

fchopin wrote...

You could be right, lots of times my mages stop attacking and just stand like idiots so this may be why they don’t heal or do what they are supposed to do.
 
This bug needs to be fixed asap as it is causing big problems.

My mages have never stopped fighting. If anything their worst habits are running up too close to a fight for no good reason). They stop fighting on if stunned or standing up from a knockdown but never display a lack of effort when they should be firing.

What version are people seeing the tactics problems on because I find it really hard to fathom that I'm not seeing a bug this pervasive - and I'm on the 360 version.

I am using PC with version 1.02 so we have differences in the game.

[v.lokai]

Gecon wrote...

v.lokai wrote...

If your mages are not healing perhaps you need to raise the heal commands to higher priority. I have never had wynne or morrigan not heal at the preset level.

Ally health
Self health

Already wrong, because the character should heal himself first. Dead healer is no good healer, ever.

I usually have on Wynne:

Self Health < 50% - Heal # Keeping herself up is a priority, of course
Tank Health < 90% - Regenerate # Tank gets priority for healing
Ally Health < 75% - Regenerate # Regenerate is MUCH better mana-wise than Heal !
Ally Health < 75% - Heal # Ok if Regenerate isnt enough, also Heal

And this works most of the time, except if I select the whole group and give the attack command.

Yeah self health should be first but I play as a warrior with shield skills and later champ/templar so I really command the battlefield so to speak if my squishy characters are in trouble either myself or ranger pet will solve that issue. In particular my Leliana ranger pet top tactics are always protect healer then protect Leliana with overwhlem/web/slam/attack etc.

Perhaps even use health poultice as top priority since you may not want to dip into your mages mana pool for self heals. Especially on boss fights with grab where you may need that heal not on cooldown. Then again boss fights full micro management is optimal anyway.

[fchopin]

There is also one more problem but I am not sure it is related to tactics.



When i select my character and click on an enemy to start the attack my character attacks but if the enemy moves to another position my character stops attacking and just stands and does nothing.



The correct procedure should be for my character to follow the enemy and keep attacking.

[Sidney]

fchopin wrote...


I am using PC with version 1.02 so we have differences in the game.

That is what I was wondering. Don't know why that would be the case but with 3 different version, now mutating with patches and mods, I suspect we'll see a lot more "X doesn't work for me" type things.

I wish there was an easy way to upload Tactics files both to look at issues when they come up but also as a library for new users to look through to set their tactics - and again maybe there is on the PC version.

[plecha]

Self Health < X - Drain Life is good too, because it's basically instant.

[Marvin TPA]

Only major problem I found with tactics was with target enemy class. It seems to be broken in regards trying to target mages, instead picking targets running on stamina. I end up using target low armour and relying on manually hitting emissaries.

Modifié par Marvin TPA, 17 décembre 2009 - 03:40 .

[roybm]

I think the tactics system works great. If you understand it and know how to order it all up, you shouldn't have any problems with it.

Besides its not there so you can control just one character and have the rest of the party to tag along for the ride. Its more of a backup if you miss a characters action during a good fight.



The key is to order them properly and they will work like they are supposed to. Say if you have a quick cast heal as the first tactic, than the pc will fire off a heal as set by the tactic. But since it is quick cast and recharges fast, you most likely will never see any of the other tactics work in combat since the list never gets that far down the line.



Other than that I disagree with the OP. I do not think it needs any fixing and works just fine the way it is

[Cuthlan]

roybm wrote...

I think the tactics system works great. If you understand it and know how to order it all up, you shouldn't have any problems with it.
Besides its not there so you can control just one character and have the rest of the party to tag along for the ride. Its more of a backup if you miss a characters action during a good fight.

I agree that it works well if you set it up properly, but  you're wrong about it not being there so you can just control one character. The devs have pretty much said that's exactly what it is for. Especially for console users.

[Cybercat999]

TriggerHappy64 wrote...

The endless micromanaging is driving me crazy and makes any of the combat sequences boring, tiresome and not very exciting.  That, and the fact that I have to go through so many story options to get to any action is really destroying the fun for me.  I don't really understand all the good reviews this game is getting.  Sure it's immersive and I do like the lore and the story, but the gameplay has been extremely frustrating.

I am sorry to say but this game is probably not for you then. It is about story and micromanaging, and some of us like it to be just that way. Its not for everyone though, you would probably have more fun playing a FPS.

[Silensfurtim]

lol. when I first saw the Tactics menu, I was saddened.



I said to myself, "its official. DAO is infected with consolitis."

[Eshme]

The problem for the most part, is that i havent found a way to have automatics and manual work together. There are occassions ,where my plan will vary during battle many times. For example sending Zevran onto a enemy not chosen by the automatic. Or keeping him away until i finish an AOE series that i only want my Tank to bear. The last thing that pissed me off was before i noticed Zevran lied dead besides Shale who killed him in his AOE, because Zevran "forgot" manual orders and seeminly ran back and forth in a battle that is not so easy its frustraing that its not intuitive..



I had only activated the attack automatic yesterday but after i saw this i deactivated it right away yet again. It makes no sense. Im sure this isnt valid for easy mode or console versions, but thats not the point.



You can argue, and im sure this is all the OP is trying to say, that it replaced the better command chain. Which would be just be what is needed.



But id also say, not only the auto tactics are acting like described. I had my whole team take potions at once, but only 1 actually did, the one i had in control. And many times i make a full cycle throu companions i dont see cooldown, i say the talent wasnt used when i actually needed it.



And also ,what everyone likes to say, i dont think the OP wanted to have AI ,which in turn does anything on its own. Note the "requirement" for it on the console version, where it actually does mostly anything on its own. Funnily and besides the point, i had watched a boss fight (Marjolaine) with random presets not doing anything, just watching, and i won. Hard mode ,PC. But i believe Marjolaine was bugged cause she didnt do anything it seemed LOL , which gives credit to the whole topic of companions doing nothing. Ok make up your mind.

[Sidney]

roybm wrote...
Besides its not there so you can control just one character and have the res

My basic interaction with tactics is to do this:

1. Opening salvo is determined by me based on the type of fight.
2. I usually micromanage one character after that salvo, the tactics control basic actions past those opening actions.
3. At some point the fight changes - either due to losses, new tactical situation or loss of mana/stamina. At that point I'll retake control and get people working in the right direction and let it go again.

Are my people fully tweaked and optimized at every moment, no. I can accept that. Do tactics run every fight, no. My tactics are setup to control mob fights with bosses and possible mage support in that fight. For things like revenants and dragons I am 100% controlling things.