119 réponses à ce sujet

[Sacrificial Bias]

ResoluteOne wrote...

Most of the problems in this thread are because people don't seem to understand how they are supposed to work, not because they are broken.

First of all, the Behavior function controlls where the character locates themselves.  Do they charge enemies, run away, stay close to the controlled character, do they stay in damaging area of effects or run away.  That is what you use behavior for.  It has no effect on what skills they use or who or if they attack.  People posting it is broken because the character is not attacking with it on aggressive are really not seeing the point of how this works at all.   You use the behavior on top of what action you tell them to do on the tactics menu, not expect the behavior makes them automatically do things.  It is more like the behavior is a modifier which effects every other thing you put in the tactics list.  Choosing to use a skill on the nearest enemy while on aggressive might have a totally different result then the exact same tactic when used on passive.  On one they might charge up and use the skill, on the other they might run away and use it when someone approaches.

Second, the character tries to activate the tactics in the exact order you list them in if they have the abilty to meet the condition.  If you dont carefully put the tactics in the correct order then yes they will do useless or wrong things and not ever activate the tactics down the list.  This is not a bug.  This is the player not planning out the tactics in order.

I played the whole game through on hard just controlling the PC in battle and letting the tactics work.  Here is an example with Wynne from memory.

1)self mana < 10% activate blood magic
2self health < 50% deactivate blood magic
3) ally health < 90% regenerate
4) ally health < 75%  heal
5 ally health < 50% group heal
6)self mana < 50% spellbloom
7self mana < 25% group rejuvinate
8) enemy attacking wynne Petrify
9)closest enemy stonefist
10)enemy melee against wynne glyph of repulsion
11)enemy attacking wynne with ranged gyph of paralysis
12)closest enemy insect swarm

She heals the group, disables any enemies attacking her,  destroys weak enemies attacking her and regenerates mana.  Only bosses would pose a threat.  Why would I ever need to activate her manually?  There are no more skills I can click on faster or better then what she will already do.  If she is in trouble, the best action is to use my PC to help her, not take her over and try some micromangement.  The tactics work great and are complex.

And if one of your party members die, how do you plan on reviving them?  If combat is over but Wynne's health never dropped below 50%, will you switch over to manually deactivate Blood Magic every single time or just leave it on?

[LDiCesare]

I don't get why one has to spend points that could be spent elsewhere to avoid micromanagment. If you pause, you can do everything tactics does for you. Except you can only automate things so far, so all the tactics slots you get are just a way to force you to micromanage if you don't have enough.

I think that tactics slots should be fixed to the max level from the start and the tactics skill should be dropped altogether as it's jsut a meta gaming skill.

[ResoluteOne]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...

And if one of your party members die, how do you plan on reviving them?  If combat is over but Wynne's health never dropped below 50%, will you switch over to manually deactivate Blood Magic every single time or just leave it on?

The character most likely needed to be revived would be Wynne if an enemy stopped her from healing so in short that is a totally useless skill for her to have since she cant use it on herself.

Blood magic she will turn off herself as soon as she takes damage. Change it to 75% instead of 50 if you afraid she will be killed unexpectly.

[fchopin]

I have stopped using the tactics as i have to micromanage more with them on.



There is no way i can setup the tactics to do what i want so i will probably try one of the mod’s if there is no fix in the new bioware patch.

[BelgarathMTH]

I used to feel like a lot of people here and didn't like the tactics. I was having a lot of trouble getting them to work the way I wanted.



With time and experience, I have gotten a lot better at setting them appropriately, and now I do like the tactics system because it saves me a lot of work and occasionally saves my life. (Oh yeah, I forgot Wynne could do that, duh.)



I still have to do a lot of management during battles - the auto tactics are like a friendly helper. The AI doesn't play the game for me, and I wouldn't want it to. But in most non-boss battles, I can just play my PC and let the other party members take care of themselves, which I really like.



Also, I have the Advanced Tactics mod installed, and I highly recommend it, especially because it lets you have Wynne automatically raise unconcscious party members during battle.

[AiTenshi1]

Just to be clear, there are actual errors in the Tactics system and it does not work quite the way it should if it was coded properly. Compare to Tales of Vesperia as an example where the system references the specific ingame elements rather than undefined general terms that only developers know the specifics of, and you can see one example of a problem with the current system. In addition, there is no way that a so-called Tactics system is well-coded when you have to spend levelling points to create strategies for roleplaying your party.



Yes, you can get Tactics to work... somewhat, anyway. However, I have tested it extensively with a variety of settings in order to analyze the logic structure (and yes, I am a former programmer who worked on a year 2000 project at a major company among other things, so I know programming logic structures etc). The Tactics system in DA: O is very poorly coded and implemented compared to others I have seen (Tales of Vesperia, as I mentioned, or even Star Ocean: The Last Hope, are excellent systems that enhance playing enjoyment rather than create obstacles for the player to work around).

[BlackFriar]

I'm getting to the point where I'm constantly micro-managing my battles out of necessity. Too many times half my party gets frozen from a cone-of-cold if I change-off from my mage. Or, better yet, everyone's blown up with a fireball... It's really annoying...

[Jallard]

I have read all of the the responses and I am still left with not knowing how to use the Tactics options, let alone how to buy, sell or trade for better equipment. With a downloaded game there is no manual: and there is none available anywhere. I suppose you would have to purchase it some where --from either Bioware or the EA store???? The bottom line here is none of my questions were answered.



Incidentally, I am not a programmer. I play these games to have fun --when they are fun? Moreover, I am also trying to avoid using cheat codes. Now, can someone please answer my original questions?

[ResoluteOne]

People keep asserting it is broken somehow yet i don't see examples of actual bugs. If you can't figure it out for yourself and need a detailed manual that is a totally different issue.

[Jallard]

Jallard wrote...

I have read all of the the responses and I am still left with not knowing how to use the Tactics options, let alone how to buy, sell or trade for better equipment. With a downloaded game there is no manual: and there is none available anywhere. I suppose you would have to purchase it some where --from either Bioware or the EA store???? The bottom line here is none of my questions were answered.

Incidentally, I am not a programmer. I play these games to have fun --when they are fun? Moreover, I am also trying to avoid using cheat codes. Now, can someone please answer my original questions?

Why is it that noone is answering my initial questions directly? I repeat:

"When the tactic selection is in red does that mean they are disabled? How do I buy, sell or trade for equipment? Where do I find and online "PDF" manual for DAO?"


I am just a non programming guy trying to play a video game --to have fun. I am not into micro-managing anything: and, I do mean anything!?! My motto: "Keep it simple stupid!"   Thank you.

[ResoluteOne]

Jallard wrote...


Why is it that noone is answering my initial questions directly? I repeat:

"When the tactic selection is in red does that mean they are disabled? How do I buy, sell or trade for equipment? Where do I find and online "PDF" manual for DAO?"


I am just a non programming guy trying to play a video game --to have fun. I am not into micro-managing anything: and, I do mean anything!?! My motto: "Keep it simple stupid!"   Thank you.

Tactics in red mean they are set to target an enemy.  Tactics in white are set to target allies.  You can click a button to grey them out to disable them.  You trade for equipment by talking to whatever characters have things to sell.  If you are at begining of the game you probably have not reached that point.  I have no idea if there is a full manual.  There a tip boxes that pop up right in the game.

[Trajan60]

Tactics work fine as long as you don't use them for any AoE spells or cone attacks.

[Sacrificial Bias]

ResoluteOne wrote...

People keep asserting it is broken somehow yet i don't see examples of actual bugs. If you can't figure it out for yourself and need a detailed manual that is a totally different issue.

Broken? No.
Limited?  Very much so.

To be honest, there's nothing really "broken" about tactics.  The AI will do exactly what you tell it to do.  It's just that your options are severely limited.

Revival can't be set to be used on dead party members(a very serious oversight that FFXII Gambits would never miss, as it's the basics of the basics).  With a very few exceptions, tactics will only activate in battle, and activating modes pre-battle isn't one of them(that sounds silly, but call me petty).  There's also no option to turn off a mode once battle is over(which eliminates the possibility of using Shale's Stone Aura line without manual control after every single fight, which can get really annoying).

[wwwwowwww]

To tell people to stop whining is obsurd. They paid good money for a product, and it's well within their rights as a consumer to expect it to work as advertised.



I personally don't use the tactics, but if I decide too I would expect it to work like it's supposed to. I don't quite understand how to use the Mods people make for the game, and honestly I should have to get fixes for a game that I paid for from other sources than who developed the game if the problem is something having to do with the original programming of the game.

[Creature 1]

Jallard wrote...
"When the tactic selection is in red does that mean they are disabled?  No, it means this action is taken upon an enemy.  
How do I buy, sell or trade for equipment?  ???  Find a merchant.  Drag stuff you want to sell to his inventory.  Drag stuff you want to buy to your inventory.  
Where do I find and online "PDF" manual for DAO?"  Does not exist, check here or try the Dragon Age wiki.  Most every question can be answered here. 

I am not into micro-managing anything: and, I do mean anything!?! My motto: "Keep it simple stupid!"   Thank you.

I hope you're not planning on using any mages, then, because they really need to be micromanaged.  The day you do not need to micromanage your party in a game is the day my computer passes the Turing test.  And even then we will have disagreements. 

[Dragon Age1103]

I've only had a couple hiccups here & there with tactics, nothing I couldn't overcome & certainly nothing to complain or whine about unlike some people.lol.

[2late2die]

I also find tactics perform inconsistently. My biggest issue though is a lack of action queue - I think it would've fixed a lot of problems people are having with tactis if we could queue up a few actions in advance like in KotOR. I realize that tactics were added to make something like that unnecessary, but I think it's obvious that tactics don't work 100% of the time (I personally seen my characters do nothing when the only action in their tactics is "attack nearest enemy"). A queue system is pretty straight forward and would've cut micromanagement (at least mine) but at least half if not more.

[ijmorris]

The only thing I use tactics function for is I put a tactic in for everyone to use lesser healing poultice when health <25% in case I forget to look at someone's health during a battle...

[Necroscope84]

sleepy__head wrote...

I agree with the OP. I think the fact that we need to spend valueable skill points on Tactics to fix what is essentially a design flaw that the devs didn't bother to fix is a little insulting. Programming good AI is the devs' job, not ours.

Then do yourself a favor and download the tactics mod which gives all of your characters 21 tactic sets without having to spend any of your points on them. I don't view this as cheating because I see the tactics as a game function much like setting your keyboard and video settings.

  Also I have found that the tactics work extremely well, don't just use one set of tactics, save all three custom sets for different occassions, I have one for wynn that heals only with some normal auto attacks thrown in, another that does cc using force field, turning mobs to stone - then smashing them and so forth.  I'm constantly changing and evolving the tactics and find that melee are the easiest to set up next to Wynn.  Dont go overboard and use every spell or all your toons will be out of sta, mana, all the time.   Also learn to use the function that says "go to line 16" or whatever - Basically I'll set something up like this:

14.  Hero's health < 25%  -  Go to Line 15
15.  Alistairs Health < 25%  - Go To Line 16
16. Leliana's Health < 25% - Cast Group Heal

Sorry, I know that's not the exact wording but you'll get the picture. I'll also set everyone for a normal heal using the same methond except I'll just set it for each char individually like

1. Hero Health < 25% - Cast Heal
2. Alistair Health < 25% - Cast Heal

And then repeat for regeneration and for the one that gives them some stamina.  That way if Heal is on a cooldown then she'll cast the heal over time spell.  It took a while but I pretty much finally have all my guys working flawlessly and I control certain things that the pc just doesnt' do well such as bard songs, different stances although I can set alistair for shield defense most of the time and Shield wall when he's fighting elites or higher.  I'll also summon ranger pets myself and do most of the buffs myself, it's just easier that way.  

[Sidney]

Sacrificial Bias wrote...
Revival can't be set to be used on dead party members(a very serious oversight that FFXII Gambits would never miss, as it's the basics of the basics).  With a very few exceptions, tactics will only activate in battle, and activating modes pre-battle isn't one of them(that sounds silly, but call me petty).  There's also no option to turn off a mode once battle is over(which eliminates the possibility of using Shale's Stone Aura line without manual control after every single fight, which can get really annoying).

The Stone Aura problem does stink but Revival is the kind of one-off problem that I don't expect, nor would I, use tactics for.