202 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Tigerman123 wrote...

Kahoku was going to ruin experiments that could have produced expendable shock troops for high risk missions which would save the lives of many marines.
His death was unfortunate but necessary.

[Skirata129]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Seriously. If anything, there should have been an option to shoot Jacob and Miranda on sight at the start of ME2.

Now that would have been highly uncivillized. I don't care if the first operative you see is charles manson, if someone brings you back from the dead, you are OBLIGATED to listen to whatever proposals they have to make. then you are allowed to shoot them though it is considered very poor form.

[ForThessia]

Emzamination wrote...

Cerberus was a beautiful human centric group committed to the advancement of humanity by any and all means possible.I came to believe strongly in their Ideals/goals while playing Me2 and went out of my way to let characters know I was working 'for' them everytime the opprotunity presented itself.By me2's conclusion I thought I'd be able to continue my budding career as a valued cerberus operative in me3 but alas to my great disappointment, I was forced to rejoin the 'good' alliance and kowtow to that aging relic hackett.If that wasn't bad enough, you took my boss The illusive man and forced him into being my enemy.I cringed everytime I heard my shepard auto dialogue about taking down cerberus by any means necessary.

I should've been allowed to assist cerberus in killing the council and leaving udina with sole power which would've been a titanic boost to war assets considering the citadel fleet and human superiority.Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't eradicating the council and putting a human in power an alternate point of me1's conclusion? The worst part of it all was the destruction of the cerberus base along with the entire organization.When I destroyed that base I couldn't help but feel it was not only a waste of resources but a waste of story potential.My shepard could've taken over cerberus as the new head, purged the reaper tech and restructured it back into the human centric group I came to love.It's not fair the Asari got to keep their commandos and the salarians got to keep stg but human's had to lose their special forces branch.I shall never forgive you for what you did to Cerberus or TIM, Alien lovers.

except the commandos and stg were never terrorist orginizations and are part of their military so its very fair

[Emzamination]

ForThessia wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Cerberus was a beautiful human centric group committed to the advancement of humanity by any and all means possible.I came to believe strongly in their Ideals/goals while playing Me2 and went out of my way to let characters know I was working 'for' them everytime the opprotunity presented itself.By me2's conclusion I thought I'd be able to continue my budding career as a valued cerberus operative in me3 but alas to my great disappointment, I was forced to rejoin the 'good' alliance and kowtow to that aging relic hackett.If that wasn't bad enough, you took my boss The illusive man and forced him into being my enemy.I cringed everytime I heard my shepard auto dialogue about taking down cerberus by any means necessary.

I should've been allowed to assist cerberus in killing the council and leaving udina with sole power which would've been a titanic boost to war assets considering the citadel fleet and human superiority.Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't eradicating the council and putting a human in power an alternate point of me1's conclusion? The worst part of it all was the destruction of the cerberus base along with the entire organization.When I destroyed that base I couldn't help but feel it was not only a waste of resources but a waste of story potential.My shepard could've taken over cerberus as the new head, purged the reaper tech and restructured it back into the human centric group I came to love.It's not fair the Asari got to keep their commandos and the salarians got to keep stg but human's had to lose their special forces branch.I shall never forgive you for what you did to Cerberus or TIM, Alien lovers.

except the commandos and stg were never terrorist orginizations and are part of their military so its very fair

STG covertly updated their sterility plague and abducted different species like the varren to breed as expendable shock troops in high risk scenerios, same as cerberus and they aren't terrorist?

The asari broke the biggest law in the galaxy by withholding prothean tech and they aren't terrorist? Terrorism is a Point of view.

[Bob the Elcor]

ForThessia wrote...

except the commandos and stg were never terrorist orginizations and are part of their military so its very fair

With slight hesistation, i'm not sure if this is right but aren't Cerberus a "black ops" group that went rogue, although the key word there is rogue, my view is they went to far even thought they had noble goals. Sort of.

[Emzamination]

Bob the Elcor wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

except the commandos and stg were never terrorist orginizations and are part of their military so its very fair

With slight hesistation, i'm not sure if this is right but aren't Cerberus a "black ops" group that went rogue, although the key word there is rogue, my view is they went to far even thought they had noble goals. Sort of.

Indeed, they went rogue because the alliance has a dreadnought's weight in red tape.

Modifié par Emzamination, 14 juillet 2012 - 08:09 .

[ForThessia]

Emzamination wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

Cerberus was a beautiful human centric group committed to the advancement of humanity by any and all means possible.I came to believe strongly in their Ideals/goals while playing Me2 and went out of my way to let characters know I was working 'for' them everytime the opprotunity presented itself.By me2's conclusion I thought I'd be able to continue my budding career as a valued cerberus operative in me3 but alas to my great disappointment, I was forced to rejoin the 'good' alliance and kowtow to that aging relic hackett.If that wasn't bad enough, you took my boss The illusive man and forced him into being my enemy.I cringed everytime I heard my shepard auto dialogue about taking down cerberus by any means necessary.

I should've been allowed to assist cerberus in killing the council and leaving udina with sole power which would've been a titanic boost to war assets considering the citadel fleet and human superiority.Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't eradicating the council and putting a human in power an alternate point of me1's conclusion? The worst part of it all was the destruction of the cerberus base along with the entire organization.When I destroyed that base I couldn't help but feel it was not only a waste of resources but a waste of story potential.My shepard could've taken over cerberus as the new head, purged the reaper tech and restructured it back into the human centric group I came to love.It's not fair the Asari got to keep their commandos and the salarians got to keep stg but human's had to lose their special forces branch.I shall never forgive you for what you did to Cerberus or TIM, Alien lovers.

except the commandos and stg were never terrorist orginizations and are part of their military so its very fair

STG covertly updated their sterility plague and abducted different species like the varren to breed as expendable shock troops in high risk scenerios, same as cerberus and they aren't terrorist?

The asari broke the biggest law in the galaxy by withholding prothean tech and they aren't terrorist? Terrorism is a Point of view.

what are you talking about, with holding prothean tech is not terrorism, it wasnt hurting anyone. actually it would have been worse if another species found the prothean beacon instead of the asari (picture the krogan finding it)

STG updating the genophage was necessary because the krogan would be a menace if they overcame the genophage on their own. they would have no gratitude towards anyone and would attack 

cerberus was sloppy and what they did became public knowledge, and once again they are terrorist, the other groups are parts of the military with rules

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

 I'm really not suprised that Cerberus was more of an antagonist in ME3, I was disappointed that the option to work for them wasn't there and how they forced them to be in league with the Reapers. It was just a convenient and predictable way to close the Cerberus subplot.

To me it would have been more interesting if Cerberus (or other parties) were trying to devise to devise a way to better understand Indoctrination and devise ways to combat it and be immune to it. It would even be more intersting if Cerberus found a way to wield indoctrination as a weapon. Shepard could happen upon that research and choose to destroy it or use it as he/she sees fit.  

[SuperVulcan]

Cerberus is lame.

[legion999]

You should have been able to side with or againist Cerberus.

Not destroy then no matter because indoctrination lulz.

[The_Shootist]

Cerberus was never beautiful. It deserved to die after killing Admiral Kahoku, not to mention everything before that.

Cerberus was Saurman to the Reapers Sauron.  ME3 could have been called The Two Towers, as the King will never return.

[MystEU]

Skirata129 wrote...

Prosarian wrote...
Simpler to turn them into pure evil.

It would have been simple to produce a remake of galaga for the Xbox, but that isn't what theypromised to deliver now, is it?

When did they promise to provide two distinct storylines with pro/con Cerberus again?

This would be a bad thing, IMO, because the scope of the game would be so affected that the distinction between picking one side or the other would be diminished and watered down in an effort to streamline the game more. It doesn't make much sense from a developer point of view if both "sides" went drastically different directions. That's an incredible amount of work given that each playthrough might only experience 50% of what they worked into the game. Especially considering that most casual games/fans aren't going to play through it 5-6 times to get everything; we are in the era of beating a game once and trading it in. To change how much of the game one can experience with such a system, they would have to really thin out the significance and provide a lot of overlap and it just wouldn't be good or worth it at that point.

Sounds good on paper to provide an alternate campaign like that, but I could never see it happen well because of those reasons.

[Emzamination]

ForThessia wrote...

what are you talking about, with holding prothean tech is not terrorism, it wasnt hurting anyone. actually it would have been worse if another species found the prothean beacon instead of the asari (picture the krogan finding it)

STG updating the genophage was necessary because the krogan would be a menace if they overcame the genophage on their own. they would have no gratitude towards anyone and would attack 

cerberus was sloppy and what they did became public knowledge, and once again they are terrorist, the other groups are parts of the military with rules

They withheld the Tech to secure the superiority and advancement of their own race above all others, despite their claims of universal unity.Every non asari species could see that as terrorism but galactic law is very clear that it's an act of treason, punishable with the harshest penalties.

I don't agree, having a hundred thousand krogan shock troops would've saved alot of worlds and shepard alot of running around.They didn't help, they provided an unnecessary hinderance to the war effort over a millenia old argument.If the krogan got upity again, we could just re-release the genophage, not hard seeing as they have no fighter patrols.I see you didn't acknowlege STG kidnapping other species for genetic alteration to use in war scenerios, interesting.

Every species is looking out for it's own and cereberus was our answer to that.You may not like their methods but their goals are respectable.

[WarGriffin]

Cerberus is pretty much Evil even if you can get away with calling TIM an Anit-villian and they murdered Kohaku for trying to avenge his marines.


My problem is ME3 turned them into yet another bunch of newbs shepard could pwn strictly cause they wanted to save he Reapers looking like Idiots-and then Rannoch happened... your telling me one Destroyer is too stupid to fire horizontally?-

Form Butchering Kai Leng's character so You as Shepard can mock Cerberus' best as even a sickly drell can sneak up on a "well trained assassin" -and the MP slayer pretty much confirms they had thought of making Kai a squad mate-

To all the side missions that don't add up


To TIM being a Plots within Plots Anit-Villian -His still a villian but you can see his point- the Brains to Renegade Shepard's brawn

Turns into your Typical I CAN CONTROL THEM!!! Villian.

[ForThessia]

Emzamination wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

what are you talking about, with holding prothean tech is not terrorism, it wasnt hurting anyone. actually it would have been worse if another species found the prothean beacon instead of the asari (picture the krogan finding it)

STG updating the genophage was necessary because the krogan would be a menace if they overcame the genophage on their own. they would have no gratitude towards anyone and would attack 

cerberus was sloppy and what they did became public knowledge, and once again they are terrorist, the other groups are parts of the military with rules

They withheld the Tech to secure the superiority and advancement of their own race above all others, despite their claims of universal unity.Every non asari species could see that as terrorism but galactic law is very clear that it's an act of treason, punishable with the harshest penalties.

I don't agree, having a hundred thousand krogan shock troops would've saved alot of worlds and shepard alot of running around.They didn't help, they provided an unnecessary hinderance to the war effort over a millenia old argument.If the krogan got upity again, we could just re-release the genophage, not hard seeing as they have no fighter patrols.I see you didn't acknowlege STG kidnapping other species for genetic alteration to use in war scenerios, interesting.

Every species is looking out for it's own and cereberus was our answer to that.You may not like their methods but their goals are respectable.

im so sorry i diddnt think i needed to adress the fact that STG was taking rabid animals for testing. are you going to storm the gates of every lab that has used mice for testing too?

and i see you diddnt acknowlege what would happen if a species other than the Asari found that beacon, interesting

[Emzamination]

MystEU wrote...


When did they promise to provide two distinct storylines with pro/con Cerberus again?

This would be a bad thing, IMO, because the scope of the game would be so affected that the distinction between picking one side or the other would be diminished and watered down in an effort to streamline the game more. It doesn't make much sense from a developer point of view if both "sides" went drastically different directions. That's an incredible amount of work given that each playthrough might only experience 50% of what they worked into the game. Especially considering that most casual games/fans aren't going to play through it 5-6 times to get everything; we are in the era of beating a game once and trading it in. To change how much of the game one can experience with such a system, they would have to really thin out the significance and provide a lot of overlap and it just wouldn't be good or worth it at that point.

Sounds good on paper to provide an alternate campaign like that, but I could never see it happen well because of those reasons.

They didn't promise but it was highly implied in me2 that shepard would be able to choose a new faction.Lol If this is the era of beating games once and trading them in for less then I want nothing to do with it.I tend to get a bit nostalgic at times and might want to pop out a old game and reminisce, not to mention you can't really build up your game collection with that method.

[Apple Lantern]

Dude, Cerberus was never a good organization. Are you ignoring ME1 and Project Overlord? Also, everyone in your squad outright stating they were evil, aside from Miranda?

[Emzamination]

ForThessia wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

what are you talking about, with holding prothean tech is not terrorism, it wasnt hurting anyone. actually it would have been worse if another species found the prothean beacon instead of the asari (picture the krogan finding it)

STG updating the genophage was necessary because the krogan would be a menace if they overcame the genophage on their own. they would have no gratitude towards anyone and would attack 

cerberus was sloppy and what they did became public knowledge, and once again they are terrorist, the other groups are parts of the military with rules

They withheld the Tech to secure the superiority and advancement of their own race above all others, despite their claims of universal unity.Every non asari species could see that as terrorism but galactic law is very clear that it's an act of treason, punishable with the harshest penalties.

I don't agree, having a hundred thousand krogan shock troops would've saved alot of worlds and shepard alot of running around.They didn't help, they provided an unnecessary hinderance to the war effort over a millenia old argument.If the krogan got upity again, we could just re-release the genophage, not hard seeing as they have no fighter patrols.I see you didn't acknowlege STG kidnapping other species for genetic alteration to use in war scenerios, interesting.

Every species is looking out for it's own and cereberus was our answer to that.You may not like their methods but their goals are respectable.

im so sorry i diddnt think i needed to adress the fact that STG was taking rabid animals for testing. are you going to storm the gates of every lab that has used mice for testing too?

and i see you diddnt acknowlege what would happen if a species other than the Asari found that beacon, interesting

No quite the opposite, I agree with what STG was doing, my point is every species is looking out for its own kind. They were conducting the same experiments cerberus is being condemed as terrorist for.The only reason cerberus is being called evil terrorist is because the agenda and goal of their experiments is Pro-human.

Sorry, I thought I had implied my point.Any species would've used that tech to secure their own species Advancement.I'm not condeming what the asari did because in their shoes i'd of done the same for humanity.My point was it's seen as a terrorist act from certain Points of view because they didn't share it with others and used it to boost their own race yet when cerberus tries to do the same thing they're called evil.

[Blitzhawk65]

ForThessia wrote...

what are you talking about, with holding prothean tech is not terrorism, it wasnt hurting anyone. actually it would have been worse if another species found the prothean beacon instead of the asari (picture the krogan finding it)

STG updating the genophage was necessary because the krogan would be a menace if they overcame the genophage on their own. they would have no gratitude towards anyone and would attack 

cerberus was sloppy and what they did became public knowledge, and once again they are terrorist, the other groups are parts of the military with rules

Prothean tech could have helped the other species advance and improve their standards of living.  Giving up the prothean tech would also cause all now-redundant research, resources, and funding to be directed elsewhere.  It would be like if a country discovered a cure for cancer, but refused to share it with anybody.  Terrorism?  Perhaps not, but it would be morally questionable and the disclosure could certainly save lives.

The STG developed and administered a bioweapon that essentially led towards 998 out of every 1000 krogan births to become miscarriages.  The genophage killed billions more than Cerberus.  The population of North Korea is composed of generations of people who grew up isolated from the rest of the world and worshipping the militaristic visions of the Kim family.  If North Korea starts attacking other countries, would it be ok if we spray down the country with a virus that will kill 998 out of every 1000 North Korean babies?  Would that be an acceptable and necessary solution if it is authorized by the other governments of the world?  I think that would be a monstrous solution.  The STG also experimented on Yahg, varren, krogan, etc. in secret, are they so much better because they are part of an official government and not an independent organization? 

Cerberus' experiments in ME1/ME2 were not conducted just "to further the purposes of evil" or some similar nonsense, they were conducted to ultimately help humans.  Cerberus believed that the ends would justify the means.  If 100 humans had to die to potentially save 10000 humans down the road, then Cerberus would not hesitate to take that option.  If Kohoku had to die to prevent the alliance from putting the stop to their experiments, then that was a task that Cerberus was willing to perform.  Does that make Cerberus trustworthy or "the good guys?"  No, but its gray morality does leave room for interpretation.  ME1/ME2 Cerberus was much more interesting than the "evil empire" comic-book villains that ME3 made them out to be.

Modifié par Blitzhawk65, 14 juillet 2012 - 08:52 .

[Wildecker]

Emzamination wrote...
Every species is looking out for it's own and cereberus was our answer to that.You may not like their methods but their goals are respectable.

While I could agree with Cerberus' declared goal to help mankind become stronger, I disagree with the method of reaching this goal by cutting down the competitors. Confining the other guys to wheelchairs does not turn you into a giant ...
Boosting your soldiers' performance with cybernetic implants? That's okay.
Keeping them loyal by extensive brainwashing? That's not. Not at all.

[Emzamination]

Nyxeris wrote...

Dude, Cerberus was never a good organization. Are you ignoring ME1 and Project Overlord? Also, everyone in your squad outright stating they were evil, aside from Miranda?

No, I gave reasons why I agreed with their experiments and Project overlord's goals on page 1.Most of your squad is Alien so no surprise there and the few other humans you do have are bias Alliance fanatics (Ashley moreso than anyone else).

[Emzamination]

Wildecker wrote...

Emzamination wrote...
Every species is looking out for it's own and cereberus was our answer to that.You may not like their methods but their goals are respectable.

While I could agree with Cerberus' declared goal to help mankind become stronger, I disagree with the method of reaching this goal by cutting down the competitors. Confining the other guys to wheelchairs does not turn you into a giant ...
Boosting your soldiers' performance with cybernetic implants? That's okay.
Keeping them loyal by extensive brainwashing? That's not. Not at all.

Taking out the competition ensures more strength for humanity which we sorely needed in me3.You would think after destroying the council in me1 to elevate humanity, we'd pretty much be top dog in me3 but no, same old crap, we were still getting pushed around even with udina being the senior council member.Putting the other races in line ensures we're respected and feared if they get uppity.I for one got tired of being punked by the other species on the council.The cerberus troops being indoctrinated was not the intended effect TIM has planned.It in no way served to advance humanity, only to enslave it, sad it came to that.

[NM_Che56]

My God...

Read the first 3 books and you'll know how irrelevant this complaint is.

Cerberus was on this path from the moment jack Harper was exposed to the reaper artifact on Shanxi.

[garrusfan1]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Um Cerberus was always a shady organization...

Project Overlord
Pragia
TIM's look on his face when you give him the Collector Base
Every squadmate telling you Cerberus is evil

etc.

Yep