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[Renmiri1]

oops

Modifié par Renmiri1, 15 juillet 2012 - 02:45 .

[WarGriffin]

Blitzhawk65 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
I came away with the "selfishly evil" position on them in ME 1, let alone some of the stuff that was going on in ME 2, or that we learn about there, with or without his approval.  I don't just look at TIM and go; this is Cerberus in a nutshell, although he's probably the chief nut in the shell.

The players do not get much back-story on Cerberus in ME1.  All we know at that point is that they are a former Alliance Black-Ops organization that went rogue and is into doing some crazy science experiments on rachni, thresher maws and thorian creeps.  We also know that they killed off Admiral Kahoku when he got too close to figuring them out.  One would have to figure that there was a reason for doing what they were doing.  Surely they weren't experimenting on rachni, maws, etc. just for the hell of it and there had to be some benefit to be gained.  Killing off Kahoku makes sense to protect the benefit and experimenting on Toombs, the marines, etc. makes sense since they were looking to study the effects of the thresher poison on the humans.

In the books and in ME2 TIM is introduced and presents Cerberus as a machiavellian pro-human organization.  The means are justified as long as the end goal of advancing the interests of humanity is reached.  This coincided with the Cerberus of ME1 (even though ME2 greatly expanded the scale of the Cerberus organization).  TIM seems like an untrustworthy and unethical person, but it is still believable that he is looking out for humanity and that he believes that he is the best person to do it because he will make the decisions that others will not.  If he was truly self-serving, then what was the point of spending a fortune on bringing Shepard back to stop the collectors?  It was because he believed that Shepard was the best-suited for the job and because the alternative of the collectors/reapers winning was much worse for humanity.  It makes no sense that he would do it "to get his hands on the collector base," because nobody knew what was beyond the relay.  It was likely that the chance to gain control of the base was something that TIM saw as an opportunity when the chance presented itself.

Then we have ME3.  Cerberus basically becomes a comically evil empire with an endless supply of mooks, and TIM becomes someone who appears to stop at no costs to stop the galaxy from uniting if he cannot get his own way (i.e. if he can't win, then nobody can).  What I found to be an interesting character in ME2 and an interesting organization in both ME1 and ME2 became a lame, comic book definition of pure evil.

I'm glad someone else sees it like that... Though nobody really wants to support my Kai Leng got robbed -cause all they want to do is make stupid Deception Meme jokes that aren't funny anymore... and the N7 Slayer has just pissed me off- or as someone blew my accusations off with "Kai's not that important, therefore character consistency doesn't matter... well if that's the Case Garrus should revert back to his same doubtful self like thane went back to being accepting of death instead of trying to spend more time with his son/spend more time with you and wanting to live again!

Sorry ranting


TIM's MO is he'll help you if it helps him and he'll generally leave you alone unless what your doing threatens his goals... TIM was a Plot within a Plot villian/Anti-villian who was a chessmaster even using the side missions as oppurtunities to spread thier influence and schemes. You might couldn't have trusted or liked the guy.... but you respected TIM's dangerousily brillant mind He was the Brain to a Renegade Shepard's Brawn.

ME3

None of the Cerberus schemes have some underlying motive

The attack on the citadel, you'd expect Kai would tell TIM that he got the data or the bug was planted in the system... Nope the citedal attack was just that a stupid move to try and kill the council and take over the citadel.

It's almost lampshaded in the N7 side missions dealing with Cerberus

Hackett: **** if i know what thier up too.


and TIM is reduced to a I CAN CONTROLZ THEM Bad guy
 honestly without Sheen's ability to deliver the lines TIM, I couldn't take the cerberus plot serious and that's not even going into Kai Mac Leng

[Lord_Frostwind]

Oh lord, not this again. I swear if I get flamed by a bunch of Paragons running around telling me how bad of a person I am, I'm going to sell Legion to Cerberus, purposely kill as many of my teammates as I can in ME2 and still live, and possibly set some civilians on fire just for good measure. Renegade and proud of it!

I can understand why Mass Effect 3 had to shoehorn you into a certain story line, all the variables that had come about just from the story threads of ME2, much less ME1 made hundreds of stories possible. Could you have been an agent of Cerberus that didn't involve glowing reaper tech? Could I have led an army of Krogan riding Rachni to retake Earth and make Harbinger my b****? Such things, alas are the fodder of fanfiction.

[capn233]

I am not as sympathetic as the OP towards Cerberus, but I think the game would have been a whole lot more interesting if it was branched and you picked your allegiance (Alliance/Council or Cerberus).

Also not really pleased at how a shadowy cabal turns into on of the premier military forces in the galaxy.

[iamweaver]

Lord_Frostwind wrote...

Oh lord, not this again. I swear if I get flamed by a bunch of Paragons running around telling me how bad of a person I am, I'm going to sell Legion to Cerberus, purposely kill as many of my teammates as I can in ME2 and still live, and possibly set some civilians on fire just for good measure. Renegade and proud of it!

I can understand why Mass Effect 3 had to shoehorn you into a certain story line, all the variables that had come about just from the story threads of ME2, much less ME1 made hundreds of stories possible. Could you have been an agent of Cerberus that didn't involve glowing reaper tech? Could I have led an army of Krogan riding Rachni to retake Earth and make Harbinger my b****? Such things, alas are the fodder of fanfiction.

Only if the fanfic defies canon.  And by that, I mean that it ignores that the very man who created and maintained Cerberus was indoctrinated from before ME1.

Hopefully even renegade Sheps are actually trying to stop the Reapers.  Now, if you decided that your Renegade Shepherd was actually indoctrinated, then ME3 works out for you, as you can ensure the cycle continues.

[UniversalCypher]

Emzamination wrote...

arial wrote...

Cerberus was bad from the beginning, Shepard states at one point in ME3 "TIM was just using me to get the collector base, he never cared about to colonists".

in ME3 TIM lied to us about everything (He said he did not know about what happened on Overlord, but if you talk to the guy from Overlord in ME3, it is obvious TIM knew about it).

And look at ME1, cloning Rachni, enslaving Thorian Kreepers, luring Alliance Military teams into Thresher Nests, killing Admiral Kahoku.

Seriously, TIM and Cerberus were always evil, and claimed to be pro-human but were really pro TIM.

TIM in ME2 was simply using Shepard, through lies and deceit

TIM wasn't timid about sacrificing or using any resources at his disposal to win the battle.Project overlord did/could've allowed complete control of the geth which would've greatly supplemented the armada's ranks in me3.The thorian creepers were mindless and the rachni were bugs, they would've made great shock troops and cannon fodder to soak up fire in high risk missions.The alliance sat on their hands while whole colonies got obliterated, I don't feel sorry for them when they take losses.TIM is 'ruthless' and willing to do whatever it takes to win and I agree, no sacrifice is too great for the greater good.He didn't want power for himself, he just wanted to secure humanity's survival in the universe, this is shown in his last words to shepard if he didn't shoot himself.  

sure, because sacrificing humanity for the greater good of humanity certainly ensures humanities survival.

not only that, but TIM is a complete idiot in his own logic - where he inadvertantly thwarts his own efforts by bringing shep back to life in the first place. it would have been much more consistent, in personality, of TIM to leave shep dead. 

you believe in furthering humanities survival, yet, you dont feel sorry when the alliance takes losses - behold the grand hypocrasy..

a smarter person would have thought it over before making the actual post..



-UC

[CHALET]

Because they needed more generic mooks for you to kill in multiplayer.

[Prosarian]

UniversalCypher wrote...

sure, because sacrificing humanity for the greater good of humanity certainly ensures humanities survival.

How is this any sort of point? The advancement of humanity can be done both by sacrificing people and by not sacrificing people.

not only that, but TIM is a complete idiot in his own logic - where he inadvertantly thwarts his own efforts by bringing shep back to life in the first place. it would have been much more consistent, in personality, of TIM to leave shep dead.

How is that so? TIM is pro human, so he brings back humanity's greatest champion, nothing inconsistent with that. Also having Shepard work with Cerberus was a good way to earn some positive PR for Cerberus and that would help them recruit more people to the cause.

you believe in furthering humanities survival, yet, you dont feel sorry when the alliance takes losses - behold the grand hypocrasy..

Just because you're pro human does not mean that you automatically support the human military.

a smarter person would have thought it over before making the actual post..

-UC

Take your own advice.

[iamweaver]

Prosarian wrote...

UniversalCypher wrote...

sure, because sacrificing humanity for the greater good of humanity certainly ensures humanities survival.

How is this any sort of point? The advancement of humanity can be done both by sacrificing people and by not sacrificing people.

not only that, but TIM is a complete idiot in his own logic - where he inadvertantly thwarts his own efforts by bringing shep back to life in the first place. it would have been much more consistent, in personality, of TIM to leave shep dead.

How is that so? TIM is pro human, so he brings back humanity's greatest champion, nothing inconsistent with that. Also having Shepard work with Cerberus was a good way to earn some positive PR for Cerberus and that would help them recruit more people to the cause.

you believe in furthering humanities survival, yet, you dont feel sorry when the alliance takes losses - behold the grand hypocrasy..

Just because you're pro human does not mean that you automatically support the human military.

a smarter person would have thought it over before making the actual post..

-UC

Take your own advice.

My problem with all of these posts is that TIM is indoctrinated.  He has been indoctrinated since the original existence of Cerberus. 

Obviously, his indoctrination was of the long-term, subtle kind, since he retained his mental abilities, and since his goals might have started out clearly pro-human, they slowly but surely slid down the slippery slope of not only moral ambiguity, but of actual effectiveness. 

Even had I been playing a renegade Shep in ME2, I wouldn't have given Cerberus the ship - because it indoctrinates everyone who studies it.  This event alone shows that be the end of ME2, TIM was firmly under control by his masters.

[Prosarian]

iamweaver wrote...

My problem with all of these posts is that TIM is indoctrinated.  He has been indoctrinated since the original existence of Cerberus. 

Obviously, his indoctrination was of the long-term, subtle kind, since he retained his mental abilities, and since his goals might have started out clearly pro-human, they slowly but surely slid down the slippery slope of not only moral ambiguity, but of actual effectiveness. 

Even had I been playing a renegade Shep in ME2, I wouldn't have given Cerberus the ship - because it indoctrinates everyone who studies it.  This event alone shows that be the end of ME2, TIM was firmly under control by his masters.

Yes he was indoctrinated, but in ME2 it seemed as though he was able to control his actions and the entirety of ME2 was him helping Shepard fight against the Reapers. His work in helping stop the collectors and saving numerous colonies means that in terms of helping humanity and opposing the reapers, he's second only to Shepard.

Unfortunately, in ME3, his indoctrination was almost complete and we see him resisting us most of the way. It would have been a great opportunity to make an argument for the ends justifying the means, a chance to provide a real anti-hero to the series instead of the lantern-jawed military types that are so common in Sci-Fi games. Logically it makes sense that he's indoctrinated, but it is ultimately a missed opportunity since they could, just as easily, have him resist the indoctrination a bit longer.

[Emzamination]

kolibri_ wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

and the rachni were bugs

Bugs? Let me guess... you always killed the Rachni on your playthroughs? Otherwise you should have found out, that those "bugs" are actually highly intelligent creatures. Able to work on the crucible and stuff, you know. How ignorant can one be to call the Rachni mere bugs? And use them as cannon fodder? But well... kinda fits the whole Cerberus mentality.

The rachni were gigantic psychic cockroaches, don't care how intelligent, I don't want those things running free across my galaxy.It's best to take advantage of their fast breeding and create whole shock troop armies in mere days to shield human forces during high risk scenerios and wars.Not only that but the rachni 'workers' are excellent mechanics and scouts.The vorcha would be good for shock troops as well if we could get them collard.

[UniversalCypher]

Prosarian wrote...

UniversalCypher wrote...

sure, because sacrificing humanity for the greater good of humanity certainly ensures humanities survival.

How is this any sort of point? The advancement of humanity can be done both by sacrificing people and by not sacrificing people.

not only that, but TIM is a complete idiot in his own logic - where he inadvertantly thwarts his own efforts by bringing shep back to life in the first place. it would have been much more consistent, in personality, of TIM to leave shep dead.

How is that so? TIM is pro human, so he brings back humanity's greatest champion, nothing inconsistent with that. Also having Shepard work with Cerberus was a good way to earn some positive PR for Cerberus and that would help them recruit more people to the cause.

you believe in furthering humanities survival, yet, you dont feel sorry when the alliance takes losses - behold the grand hypocrasy..

Just because you're pro human does not mean that you automatically support the human military.

a smarter person would have thought it over before making the actual post..

-UC

Take your own advice.

1. perhaps you'd like to elaborate on the point you're trying to make, which involves admitting it can go one way or the other. im not seeing any valid arguement there. where my statement stands because the dumb logic of a species killing its own in the name of progressing the species as a whole doesnt exactly warrant the survival of said species. TIMs actions are counter-productive to his ideals. 

2. sure TIM is pro-human. a pro-human megalomaniac. stopping to think for a moment, might help you to see that if he had left shepard dead, his radical crap-shoot way of thinking might have actually succeeded - since shepard being alive, now im just guessing here, seemed to be the only thing to put a stop his pro-human efforts.

3. again, sure - because being pro-human certainly means you support the continued death of more humans. smh

4. i see no need to re-iterate how you've contributed to proving my point.


-UC

[Emzamination]

UniversalCypher wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

arial wrote...

Cerberus was bad from the beginning, Shepard states at one point in ME3 "TIM was just using me to get the collector base, he never cared about to colonists".

in ME3 TIM lied to us about everything (He said he did not know about what happened on Overlord, but if you talk to the guy from Overlord in ME3, it is obvious TIM knew about it).

And look at ME1, cloning Rachni, enslaving Thorian Kreepers, luring Alliance Military teams into Thresher Nests, killing Admiral Kahoku.

Seriously, TIM and Cerberus were always evil, and claimed to be pro-human but were really pro TIM.

TIM in ME2 was simply using Shepard, through lies and deceit

TIM wasn't timid about sacrificing or using any resources at his disposal to win the battle.Project overlord did/could've allowed complete control of the geth which would've greatly supplemented the armada's ranks in me3.The thorian creepers were mindless and the rachni were bugs, they would've made great shock troops and cannon fodder to soak up fire in high risk missions.The alliance sat on their hands while whole colonies got obliterated, I don't feel sorry for them when they take losses.TIM is 'ruthless' and willing to do whatever it takes to win and I agree, no sacrifice is too great for the greater good.He didn't want power for himself, he just wanted to secure humanity's survival in the universe, this is shown in his last words to shepard if he didn't shoot himself.  

sure, because sacrificing humanity for the greater good of humanity certainly ensures humanities survival.

not only that, but TIM is a complete idiot in his own logic - where he inadvertantly thwarts his own efforts by bringing shep back to life in the first place. it would have been much more consistent, in personality, of TIM to leave shep dead. 

you believe in furthering humanities survival, yet, you dont feel sorry when the alliance takes losses - behold the grand hypocrasy..

a smarter person would have thought it over before making the actual post..



-UC

TIM wasn't sacrificing humanity by attempting to use the reaper's tech against them, any rational person would've done the same.His only goal from beginning to end was to put humanity's interest first.His methods and sacrifices stem from his passionate love for humanity and its preservation.If we didn't have pro human groups like cerberus looking out for us, the aliens would constantly give us the full fist.

He brought shepard back to retrieve the collector base and secure the reaper's superior tech for humanity, similar to what the asari did with the prothean's tech.

The Alliance is a useless bunch of bureaucrats and yes men who take whatever scraps the aliens throw them with a smile.All the Alliance cares about is their image,power and favor of their alien masters, the council.They proved this when they sat with their thumbs up their butts while hundreds of thousands of humans were dragged off,probed and slaughtered by twisted aliens.

Like another poster said, take your own advice

[txgoldrush]

No, Cerberus is EVIL.

They are the dark side of humanity.

And the Renegade ME2 nding should CLUE you into their evil.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:28 .

[robertthebard]

Blitzhawk65 wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
I came away with the "selfishly evil" position on them in ME 1, let alone some of the stuff that was going on in ME 2, or that we learn about there, with or without his approval.  I don't just look at TIM and go; this is Cerberus in a nutshell, although he's probably the chief nut in the shell.

The players do not get much back-story on Cerberus in ME1.  All we know at that point is that they are a former Alliance Black-Ops organization that went rogue and is into doing some crazy science experiments on rachni, thresher maws and thorian creeps.  We also know that they killed off Admiral Kahoku when he got too close to figuring them out.  One would have to figure that there was a reason for doing what they were doing.  Surely they weren't experimenting on rachni, maws, etc. just for the hell of it and there had to be some benefit to be gained.  Killing off Kahoku makes sense to protect the benefit and experimenting on Toombs, the marines, etc. makes sense since they were looking to study the effects of the thresher poison on the humans.

In the books and in ME2 TIM is introduced and presents Cerberus as a machiavellian pro-human organization.  The means are justified as long as the end goal of advancing the interests of humanity is reached.  This coincided with the Cerberus of ME1 (even though ME2 greatly expanded the scale of the Cerberus organization).  TIM seems like an untrustworthy and unethical person, but it is still believable that he is looking out for humanity and that he believes that he is the best person to do it because he will make the decisions that others will not.  If he was truly self-serving, then what was the point of spending a fortune on bringing Shepard back to stop the collectors?  It was because he believed that Shepard was the best-suited for the job and because the alternative of the collectors/reapers winning was much worse for humanity.  It makes no sense that he would do it "to get his hands on the collector base," because nobody knew what was beyond the relay.  It was likely that the chance to gain control of the base was something that TIM saw as an opportunity when the chance presented itself.

Then we have ME3.  Cerberus basically becomes a comically evil empire with an endless supply of mooks, and TIM becomes someone who appears to stop at no costs to stop the galaxy from uniting if he cannot get his own way (i.e. if he can't win, then nobody can).  What I found to be an interesting character in ME2 and an interesting organization in both ME1 and ME2 became a lame, comic book definition of pure evil.

For comparison, consider the infamous **** scientist Josef Mengele.  By all accounts he presented himself as an intelligent and articulate person who was kind to everyone he met (including his eventual victims).  He then proceeded to perform monstrous experiments on his victims until they died.  He didn't perform those experiements just to be "evil," he performed them to solve scientific/genetic mysteries that still elude researchers today.  He thought that his works would produce a greater good, but his methods were absolutely deplorable.  That is why he is an interesting figure to study and not some forgettable **** mook.  If his research is ever recovered and it is found to potentially lead to breakthroughs in genetic research (which could lead to things such as cures for diseases), then should we burn it because of how it was gained or should we use it?  It's probably an easier question after the fact, but it is an ethical dillema none the less.  Mengele is my comparison to ME2 TIM, both are "evil" by many definitions, but they are at least interesting and there is logical reasoning behind their acts.  To me, it would have been much more satisfying to have the option to kill a Mengele-like TIM (which I probably would have taken), then to have the unrealistic comic-book villain forced upon me and then be forced to kill him.

The thing is, he's not far from what the supposed splinter groups were doing under his flag in ME 2 in ME 3.  I'm sure Jack can testify to that.  There's a reason that Mengele is looked at with disdain, and you point it out.  The question is, as Shepard asks, for humanity, or for Cerberus?  Because there are instances in 2 that make you question them, or made me question them, rather.  When their own operatives don't trust them:  Jacob has never trusted me, but he's always been honest about it, or TIM:  Cerberus isn't as evil as you think.  This statement alone tells me that I need to evaluate the people that I'm working with.  There's a reason he comments on diplomacy not working well for him:  when people already perceive you as a threat.  Why would people perceive them as a threat, if they aren't being threatening, all this is prior to 3.

In 3, yeah, all bets are off.  You couldn't get me to work for them no matter how Renegade I was feeling.  One look at Horizon, or Eden Prime will suggest that there are other motives, and tell me, do you think if TIM had gained control of the Reapers, do you honestly believe he'd let any of the alien races survive?  After all, wouldn't it be, in his eyes, far better to let them all die, so humanity can be on top?

[WarGriffin]

Based on his Sex record
TIM isn't as Xenophobic as Kai

"Sexual liaisons (past week):

-Sani Shelani, Illium Entertainment's Sexiest Human Alive

-Brooke Karrigar, Skyball Champion

-Vela Vicious, Fornax Dream Girl 2185

-Staci and Stephi Strong, the "Terra Firma Twins"

-Matriarch Trellani (twice) "

[Prosarian]

UniversalCypher wrote...
1. perhaps you'd like to elaborate on the point you're trying to make, which involves admitting it can go one way or the other. im not seeing any valid arguement there. where my statement stands because the dumb logic of a species killing its own in the name of progressing the species as a whole doesnt exactly warrant the survival of said species. TIMs actions are counter-productive to his ideals. 

2. sure TIM is pro-human. a pro-human megalomaniac. stopping to think for a moment, might help you to see that if he had left shepard dead, his radical crap-shoot way of thinking might have actually succeeded - since shepard being alive, now im just guessing here, seemed to be the only thing to put a stop his pro-human efforts.

3. again, sure - because being pro-human certainly means you support the continued death of more humans. smh

4. i see no need to re-iterate how you've contributed to proving my point.

1. Plenty of examples of human civilizations progressing off the suffering of other humans. European colonialism, slaves in America and Egypt,  for example helped build countries and empires that contributed a tremendous amount to humanity's development as a species. My point is that just because people have died, does not mean that it's autimatically to the detriment of the species as a whole.

2. If he had left Shepard dead, who's going to stop the collectors? What is his 'radical crap-shoot way of thinking'?

3. TIM believes in the ends justifying the means, to him if a few humans died but something useful was gained that could benefit humanity as a whole, then he will view it as a success. He's not killing humans for fun here.

[Emzamination]

txgoldrush wrote...

No, Cerberus is EVIL.

They are the dark side of humanity.

And the Renegade ME2 nding should CLUE you into their evil.

Why? because they are willing to use the enemie's tools against them? You paragons have a major overflow of self-righteousness.Sometimes you have to break the law and cut through the rules and regulations to get the job done.

[UniversalCypher]

sure buddy, because TIM cared nothing about image, power, and favor of his reaper masters.

you can tell me to take my own advice all you like, but lets not forget the fact that you side your self with a delusional idiot who sabotaged his own efforts by bringing a man back to life that he thought he could fool into helping him achieve his own personal selfish gains by convincing said man that hes pro-human through destroying his own humanity. 

you can never convince me your position is correct, or that you shouldnt "think it over" before you again associate yourself with a hypocritical megalomaniac from a video game. i have no quarrel with your short-mindedness, though neither do i fashion my claim as an insult before i apply it as a direct contrast to an obsolete way of thought that is indeed counter-productive towards proliferating humanity. if this is the way you truly believe, then let the idiocy be shown through the mistake of following an ideal bent on the conundrum of how a starving snake would survive that much longer by eating itself from the tail-end - since that is the final conclusion of your concept.

all i ask is that you think about it, and think critically i might add..


-UC

Modifié par UniversalCypher, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:14 .

[Uncle Jo]

Emzamination wrote...

*Cerberus is super cool. Humans are the best*

[lillitheris]

Emzamination wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Unfortunately your beautiful organization used any means necessary, and ended up getting indoctrinated.

Risks of any means necessary.

I can't bring myself to fault them for trying to turn a superior force's technology against them.I would've done the same thing, you do what you have to do to win, trial and error.

Yes, and they went via error this time, one that turned out to be final. It was their own fault, nobody else’s. Soz.

[kolibri_]

Emzamination wrote...

The rachni were gigantic psychic cockroaches, don't care how intelligent, I don't want those things running free across my galaxy.

Just for your information: it's NOT your galaxy.
But thanks for proving my theory about your ignorance. ^^

[Rover Captain]

Emzamination wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Unfortunately your beautiful organization used any means necessary, and ended up getting indoctrinated.

Risks of any means necessary.

I can't bring myself to fault them for trying to turn a superior force's technology against them.I would've done the same thing, you do what you have to do to win, trial and error.

You're wrong, they didn't want to turn the Reapers against each other, TIM wanted to turn the Reapers on his enemies.  Take Omega for example.  Ideally Humanity needs something like Cerberus, as well as TIM, but TIM lost himself.  I do agree however that the destruction of Cerberus was such a waste, but TIM had already destroyed Cerberus when he rolled out the implants.

[incinerator950]

Rover Captain wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Unfortunately your beautiful organization used any means necessary, and ended up getting indoctrinated.

Risks of any means necessary.

I can't bring myself to fault them for trying to turn a superior force's technology against them.I would've done the same thing, you do what you have to do to win, trial and error.

You're wrong, they didn't want to turn the Reapers against each other, TIM wanted to turn the Reapers on his enemies.  Take Omega for example.  Ideally Humanity needs something like Cerberus, as well as TIM, but TIM lost himself.  I do agree however that the destruction of Cerberus was such a waste, but TIM had already destroyed Cerberus when he rolled out the implants.

A lot of us were expecting more then Comic Book villains though.

[iamweaver]

Rover Captain wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Unfortunately your beautiful organization used any means necessary, and ended up getting indoctrinated.

Risks of any means necessary.

I can't bring myself to fault them for trying to turn a superior force's technology against them.I would've done the same thing, you do what you have to do to win, trial and error.

You're wrong, they didn't want to turn the Reapers against each other, TIM wanted to turn the Reapers on his enemies.  Take Omega for example.  Ideally Humanity needs something like Cerberus, as well as TIM, but TIM lost himself.  I do agree however that the destruction of Cerberus was such a waste, but TIM had already destroyed Cerberus when he rolled out the implants.

Cerberus since before ME1 was a patsy for the Reapers.  It's the same tactic that they used during the last cycle, indoctrinating some Protheans  to create a splinter group convinced that it can control the Reapers.

One thing that I like bout the ending is that it takes the motivation of Saren and TIM, and shows that, in a way, they were actually right.