37 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

All the time, when I see threads in which the OP is asking to what place to go first, everyone suggests Redcliffe.
Why? WHY? 

Like in this thread: http://social.biowar...6/index/4652040
Let's put the pieces together shall we?


-Redcliffe doesn't give pretty much any useful equipment.


-Redcliffe is essentially a land mine of dissapproval Points for Morrigan and Sten.


-By doing Redcliffe first, you automatically start off on the wrong foot with Alistair


-The only valid argument, is to do it in order to get Spellweaver asap. However, Duncan's sword is an equal to Spellweaver, and you can get it way earlier.


In fact, I would suggest that people go to the Orzammar for the first quest for these reasons


Equipment (Free)
Pushback Strikers -  Light Gloves
Thorn of the Dead Gods - Dagger
Armor of the Legion (set) - Dragonbone Massive
Effort's Gloves - Massive Gloves 
Duty - Massive Helm
Topsider's Honor  - Dragonbone Sword
Caradin or Branka's Shield 
Meteor Sword (Stolen from Ruck) Greatsword
Ageless  Greatsword
Key to the City


Equipment (Purchased)
Shadow of the Empire ( 9 Gold ) -  Light Chestpiece
Rose's Thorn ( 114 Gold) -  Dagger
Knight Commander's Plate (15 Gold) - Massive Chest Piece 
Armor of Divine Will ( 15 Gold ) - Massive Chest Piece
Effort's Boots ( 6 gold ) - Massive Boots
Shield of the Legion (5 gold) - Dragonbone Targe
Lifegiver ( 100 + gold) - Ring


I'm pretty sure there is other stuff, I just can't remember where it is lol. That combined with the fact you can get massive amounts of gold from the quest 'Asunder', there is really no reason not to do Orzammar first. 


You can also get Andruil's Blessing, Staff of the Magister Lord, and bard's dancing shoes before doing any story quest. Mage Gear is at Wonder's of Thedas, which also doesn't require any main quests to be done

By doing Orzammar FIRST, you are essentially equiping your team for the entire game. There is really no reason not to do it. (Unless you die alot, in which case, that's a problem with your style of play)

[Ferretinabun]

It's to do with level difficulty. To some degree the game scales to your level, but even given that some levels are harder than others, and Redcliffe and the Mage's Tower are noticably easier than The Brecillian Forest or Orzammar straight out of Lothering. Orzammar;s rewards are great, but that's because the level is very tough - designed to be done last - which could easily put off noobies who aren't playing at maximum efficiency.

Between Redcliffe and the Mage's Tower, it's a matter of what's important to you, really. Metagaming, the Mage's Tower is best for the attribute points, but story-wise Redcliffe makes the most sense since Alistair actively recommends it, plus it gives you a solid reason to complete the Mage's Tower alongside it. In all, Recliffe is the first stop in most of my playthroughs (apart from Honnleath).

[actionhero112]

Not really. Redcliffe also has difficult segments, the night by the lakebed can be especially brutal. (that is if, your comp doesn't lag the add timers)

Also Tbh, you don't really need the attrib points, until max coercion on non rogues. Persuade is nice for checks, but you don't need it either unless you want certain events. Plus you don't need it in the Dwarven quest, I think, at all.

The minor attrib points shouldn't really matter compared to the wealth of items you get off of Paragon of her kind anyways. If you are 'Metagaming' as you say, you should go to Orzammar first, after RtO, Soldiers Peak and Honneleath (by which point, your warden should be strong enough to do the quest on any difficulty)

And when people say they do Redcliffe first, and then go to mage tower to get Irving, you are technically doing Mage Tower first, because the Zevran flag doesn't get set until after Mage Tower

Modifié par actionhero112, 14 juillet 2012 - 10:47 .

[termokanden]

As Ferretinabun pointed out, technically it's best to go to the mage's tower first. I really see no good reason not to want to start out with 21 extra points and 1 very competent healer (who is also a neat way to get Haste if you need that). Plus the tower is very easy compared to the rest of the game. Take the different forms in the Fade for example, it's like it was made to assist low level characters that don't quite have the tools yet. Transform yourself into something that does.

Oh and 21 attribute points DO matter. They are really going to help you meet prerequisites for gear for example.

There's also Coercion. Most builds will not spend a single point on cunning. If you go to the circle first, you can get your 16 cunning so you can use Coercion for the rest of the game.

But after the circle, I'm with you on the order. Honnleath, RtO, Paragon of her Kind. Gives you the best gear the fastest.

Modifié par termokanden, 14 juillet 2012 - 11:03 .

[cJohnOne]

I do broken circle first for what's worth. You get a templar armor for Alilstair and a nice armor for yourself. Ready for redcliffe. I don't do all the quest in the mage tower though. To me the choice is redcliffe or the mage tower so it's the mage tower.

[actionhero112]

Better armor in Dwarven area. Templar Commanders Armor > Whatever pittance is the Templar armor (lol steel)

Rather get sweet gear first then worry about everything else.

My point is that no one should ever go to redcliffe first, as it has the most downsides.

Also what armor is in the Mage tower? archon robes? That's it. Psh. Better stuff at the Wonder's of Thedas and you don't even need to trap yourself in with abominations to get it.

Though I do agree with Termo, for people unclear on how precise combat is in this game, mage's tower is probably a better buffer. I can deal without the attrib points, because not all of them are useful to your character. Very few are. But wynn is kind of helpful if you don't have a reaper's cudgel to sell at the beginning of the game.

[gandanlin]

I travel to the Dalish camp first and pick up some supplies. Elfroots, better armor and bow for Leliana, and a few items from the first half of the forest. Usually manage to level up along the way.

Then I go to Redcliffe, then to the Mage Tower -- though sometimes I do the Mage Tower first.

My general plan is to do the area where items are available that the characters can actually equip. Not much point that I can see in gathering equipment that requires attribute points that the character is nowhere near having achieved yet.

[aries1001]

I once went to Orzammer......way too soon. What people don't tell you is that there is a prize on your head....and you will face a very difficult challenge at the entrance to Orzammar...that you might not survive....if you go there way too soon...

But, you're free to go where-ever you want, of course. I just tend to follow the path of the many...it seems.

[Dintonta]

termokanden wrote...

As Ferretinabun pointed out, technically it's best to go to the mage's tower first. I really see no good reason not to want to start out with 21 extra points and 1 very competent healer (who is also a neat way to get Haste if you need that). Plus the tower is very easy compared to the rest of the game. Take the different forms in the Fade for example, it's like it was made to assist low level characters that don't quite have the tools yet. Transform yourself into something that does.

Oh and 21 attribute points DO matter. They are really going to help you meet prerequisites for gear for example.

There's also Coercion. Most builds will not spend a single point on cunning. If you go to the circle first, you can get your 16 cunning so you can use Coercion for the rest of the game...

My opinion, too... I would add that having a competent healer in your group is very useful if you want to save everybody's life in Redcliffe night attack. One more reason to go to the Circle before the village if your warden isn't a healer him/herself (IMHO, giving healing spells to Morrigan isn't only a waste, but an unforgiveable crime against her very nature...)

After that, I usually do the DLC, but for various reasons it may not be such a good idea (Soldier's Peak may be more enjoyable at higher level with tougher demons, The crystals you get in Honnleath are adjusting their value to your level as well, and you may want to wait after the Landsmeet to do RtO with Loghain...)
Afterward, it largely depends on RP... But since I rarely RP Alistair-friendly, I usually go to do some shopping first in Orzammar and sometimes I do as well the first steps of the main story-line (up to Jarvia's hideout). It gives gold and much of the better items listed in the OP (except for topsider honor and legion of the dead armor...) One reason why I could finish Branka's quest this soon would be to get Oghren. (BTW having a peek at Oghren's dreams may be a good reason to finish the whole Orzammar thing before going to the Circle. I regret I've never done that before...) Otherwise I let the dwarves alone in hopes they will make their mind before I return.

Shopping in Denerim is nice too and I may be tempted to follow with the Denerim's side-quests. It actually depends on my group having a pick-locker skilled enough or not (It just kills me to let behind any of those high-rated chest in random encounter areas) and, mostly, on my desire to fight against scattershooting archers (when I feel so, I let Denerim's back alleys for a later time).

If I play an elf, RP reasons command me to not delay the search for the dalish further (even if I would prefer to do so, metagame-wise). For RP reasons again, I never go shopping by the dalish camp without following with the main quest (the dalish plea for help seems to urgent to be postponed when my warden hear it).
Since it's possible to learn about the Urn of Sacred Ashes' real existence in Genetivi's house in Denerim, and to guess there is some plot behind it, I may go directly to Haven after Denerim (best way to get the excellent Wade's superior dragonbone armor while lessening in the future the awkward feeling to be the new errand girl of the Guerrin family).
I usually go to Redcliffe after, since it seems logical to me to bring Eamon the cure his knights have searched for, and because it unlocks the village area to which a few side-quests are related.
If I have not already done so, I go next into the Brecilian forest and I finish by Branka's quest if I don't mind meeting Oghren so late.

But, to be honest, I don't feel there is such a big difference between the main quests' difficulty that would give compelling "mini-maxing" reasons to play into a specific order rather an other...

Modifié par Dintonta, 17 juillet 2012 - 12:08 .

[Dintonta]

actionhero112 wrote...

Equipment (Free)
Pushback Strikers -  Light Gloves
 3 Thorns of the Dead Gods - Daggers (2 of them stolen in two occasion from lord Dace : In Aeducan thaig and in Diamond quarter)
Armor of the Legion (set) - Dragonbone Massive
Effort's Gloves - Massive Gloves 
Duty - Massive Helm
Topsider's Honor  - Dragonbone Sword
Caradin or Branka's Shield 
Meteor Sword (Stolen from Ruck) Greatsword
Ageless  Greatsword
Key to the City
2 Champion's shields (Stolen two times from Vartag Gavorn : In the Assembly and in the Palace...)

EDIT :innocent:

Modifié par Dintonta, 17 juillet 2012 - 12:17 .

[actionhero112]

There is also Bloodline and a bunch of other stuff I missed, I admitted that in OP. For instance I didn't mention part of the diligence gear in the shaperate and stuff like that. I can't be bothered to write it all. 

Denerim isn't a main plot area, you can tell what are main quests by the cutscenes that happen after. For example, the Zevran plot flag doesn't set once you leave RtO, Honneleath, Denerim, or Soldier's Peak. It only sets on Redcliffe, Haven, Paragon of Her Kind, Lost to the Curse and Mage's Tower. These are the main quests I'm talking about. Obviously I get Cailan's gear, and all the free DLC equip before doing any main mission.

I usually raise Sten's Strength very quickly, and are able to wear dragonbone at level 8 (perhaps seven, depending on how vigorously I raise his approval) Allowing him to tank until Alistair gets his act together. So I never really have a problem with equiping armor, just getting it early enough. 

Though, I have agreed, that the Mage Tower is a suitable first plot quest if you need the attrib and Wynn. I never seem to, however, I won't speak for everyone. My argument is not going to Orzammar first, but to provide an argument for why Redcliffe is quite possibly the worst mission to start with.

Modifié par actionhero112, 17 juillet 2012 - 01:46 .

[Blazomancer]

Orzammar definitely rewards a little more experience points because of the level scaling if done early. Not to speak of the good loot.

Heading to redcliffe after lothering makes sense from the point of view of the plot. Getting the good stuff from the DLC's right after lothering and heading to orzammar is a nice way of setting yourself up for the rest of the game. I guess those who don't have the DLC's may find it a bit overwhelming, but then it depends on the player and his/her experience level with the game itself.

I'm sure I couldn't have managed Orzammar in my first playthrough right after Lothering. Now that I've got quite decent enough in my tactics, I can handle it pretty well.

From the begginer perspective, may be heading to redcliffe makes sense as the difficulty builds on gradually, then to the circle tower for attr. boosts, then onwards. May be that's why Redcliffe is usually recommended by people.

[actionhero112]

I don't think so, I've watched several playthroughs and seen people struggle against both the lakebed segment and the first scripted revenant fight.

Not to mention that Alistair hates you, because to finish the mission you must sacrifice isolde or connor. (You cannot do the mage lyrium ending, as that requires you to do the mage tower first)

Also Morrigan hates the player as well as Sten.

So no, it's not beginner friendly. None of this game is beginner friendly. It's filled with approval traps, and tough fights to beginners. I'm just suggesting that people take a route that helps them, basically, not redcliffe.

I'm sure you know, that in DA:O the difficulty increases with your level, and the way you keep up with it is buying better equipment. Redcliffe harms the player, because it gives them exp, but no mentionable equipment.

Also, the plot does not demand you go to Redcliffe first. The proof is that there are Zevran, Oghren and Wynne approval points and dialogue in redcliffe, and you can only get Zevran, Oghren and Wynne by not doing Redcliffe first. 

Modifié par actionhero112, 17 juillet 2012 - 03:47 .

[Blazomancer]

'Defending the chantry' is tough only if you are going for the 'Helm of the red'; probably would need someone with heal and cleansing aura. But I agree with you that different people have difficulties in different segments of the game. But the first revenant fight is trivialised by Ser Perth and his knights. All I have to do is stand back and provide supporting fire with bows. And by the way, the Revenant (The First Corpse Walker) in the Circle tower is much more tougher than the redcliffe castle one.

You don't need to sacrifice either Isolde and Connor; just go to the circle tower and tackle the situation there. Then afterwards talk to Irving and ask if he could go to Redcliffe to save a possessed child.

And I didn't say that the plot demands the player to go to redcliffe first, the game opens up after lothering; I just said that from the storyline perspective such as when Alistair mentions near Flemeth's hut and before entering lothering that probably Arl Eamon is the only person who could help them.
But of course, every person should do whatever he/she likes, that's the point of an RPG.

Just curious, during your first playthru did you visit orzammar first? I think begginers will have a really hard time tackling the broodmother during early levels. I, myself could hardly survive the mercenaries waiting to ambush me while entering Orzammar. Basically the mage casting Chain Lightning, and everyone else in Heavy armor. Even now in my nightmare playthrus, I think I cross that first hurdle just because I have the Blood Dragon set,Battledress of the provocateur,and other unlockables. Health Poultice spamming is an option, but I personally don't like that.

FYI, the difficulty increase in DAO is not ccompletely linear with your level. There is a minimum and maximum level limit for each area, to which the enemies will scale. And Orzammar has the highest lower limit. That's why it's recommended for later to newbies. Of course, experienced players can complete orzammar first and come back and just breeze through the circle, brecilian and redcliffe with gears you've mentioned in the OP.

[actionhero112]

First playthrough as a human nobel rogue. But this was like... years ago? Stealth killed the mage, rest was a cake walk.

Brec < Orza < Mage < Redcliffe < Urn on Normal. Wasn't too difficult. But I've done harder games, FFT, Tactics Ogre etc.

Never really felt the need to get Coercion first playthrough either.

Upon entering Lothering there is an option where Alistair asks you what you want to do first. So you can take your pick of how you want to advance the game. The game basically hands you the objectives and basically says "pick  a card, any card!" Sure, redcliffe advances the plot a bit, but that only matters on your first playthrough, because you don't know the plot. You should feel no need to do that on subsequent playthroughs (unless for role-play reasons, but people, including myself, do crazy things for role-play reasons).


Corrupt Spider Queen and the Branka fight are much more infamously difficult than the Broodmother. At least, that's what I've gathered from the people I know. In any case, all the fights are doable and none are impossible to do. 

By going to the Circle Tower before saving/killing Connor, you are essentially doing Mage Tower First. Plot flags do not get set until after you Kill/Save Connor. (Zevran will not appear etc) So when I say doing Redcliffe first, I mean completing Redcliffe before anything else. (thought it was implied)

In any case, plot is irrelevant to this point, which is that Redcliffe doesn't give any mentionable armor or benefits, so it's not a logical choice from a gameplay perspective. Whether you die doing anything in the game isn't the problem, that's an issue with your style of play. 

Modifié par actionhero112, 17 juillet 2012 - 07:01 .

[aries1001]

You do not actually need to enter Orzammer itself, you just need to go to the surface area of Orzammar which I did and had a very difficult fight on my hands...

[Arthur Cousland]

You can go to Denerim at any time, not just as part of the Arl of Redcliffe questline.

Generally, I prefer Lothering>Broken Circle>dlc>Brecilian Forest>Redcliffe/Haven>Orzammar.

I like to pick up Wynne and the free attributes asap, and then save the tougher areas for later so that my party still has some challenge left after they've gained levels. It's also easier to save everyone during the night raid on Redcliffe when you do that part later.

Equipment can be acquired at anytime. I can get through the game just fine visiting Denerim and Orzammar later. I just know that if I save Brecilian Forest for last, those werewolves will put up minimal challenge.

[actionhero112]

Equipment can be acquired at anytime. I can get through the game just fine visiting Denerim and Orzammar later. I just know that if I save Brecilian Forest for last, those werewolves will put up minimal challenge.

Getting good equipment first should be a priority for any gamer. Especially in a game like DAO.

Anyways, people stay on topic. If you agree that you shouldn't go to redcliffe because the rewards for the quest are minimal, say so, if you like doing redcliffe first, say so. Anything else is irrelevant to the thread. 

And Nzaris, I'm refering the conversation Alistair has that starts with something along the lines of, "Ah Lothering, pretty as a painting."   Fun facts not needed, but thanks I guess. 

Modifié par actionhero112, 18 juillet 2012 - 02:33 .

[Endurium]

First off, I don't play on higher difficulty settings because I prefer story and quests over combat. Naturally that affects my strategy for playing the game.

I play mages predominantly, so after doing some quick shopping at Denerim (no one would expect a Grey Warden to show themselves in Denerim, and I know how to avoid scripted interruptions), I do Broken Circle (my home first!) then go to Redcliffe (quest - Warden Treaties). Alistair never complains, and we have to do Broken Circle anyway* to advance Redcliffe toward conclusion.

I leave Morrigan in camp and let Sten die in Lothering because I don't care for either of them, as far as personality goes. Between myself (DPS mage), Wynne (healer), Leliana, and Alistair or Dog, we do just fine.

* Last time I played, I let Jowan sacrifice Isolde to get me into the Fade; so the Circle wasn't necessary but I still did it first because it was my home.

Modifié par Endurium, 18 juillet 2012 - 04:03 .

[Lynq]

If you use healing and make sure your alistair is in good shape, then the difficulty levels do become easier and funner in my opinion.

But I always tend to do redcliffe first, it feels better doing it that way.

[actionhero112]

Funner?

>,<

Thought I could have an intelligent discussion about gains and losses of doing certain storylines first. Now we're talking about our feelings.

Something went wrong.....

[lewis251]

I usally go to Redciffle second or third (after Mage tower and perhaps forest) so that I can get helm of red, added with wades drake scale armour it's makes me almost 100% fireproof against the high dragon.

theirs also the fact you don't get alot of loot in redciffle compared to the other places so doing it first allows me to level up and get better loot drops, thus getting loot to sell, on my recent walkthough (noble ranger) I'm doing ozammar last and people are dropping sliver and dragon bone stuff = More money for me

although i might Ozammar second (mage tower is first to get wynne) on my next walkthough

[tklivory]

I tend to go to the Tower first to get Wynne (for a Healer unless I'm playing a mage myself), then Haven before Redcliffe (since you read about Genitivi in the note found on the dead Templar in Lothering) and usually after the DLC (Stone Prisoner/Soldier's Peak). I do this for two reasons: 1) it's a good way to get experience and build your characters and 2) It's fun to see the double-take of 'oh, you already have the Sacred Ashes? All right, then'

(plus, the XP bug in the mountains outside the temple for the sacred ashes, if you're willing to exploit it, is kinda awesome)