264 réponses à ce sujet

[sth128]

Kyuhyun wrote...

This is just so gross. When i wear revealing clothing i wear it because i want to and because i like it. Not because i want to hear inappropriate jokes from guys that make me uncomfortable. Women don't wear "skin tight cat suits" just to be ****** material for you guys or to get made fun of. 

I see. So you have the right to wear what you want for whatever reason you deem necessary, but we as men cannot see or react to your outfits because we do not have the right to respond to outside stimuli?

And I didn't say anyone in revealing clothing deserve "inappropriate jokes". I said people wear revealing clothing seek attention of some kind. I doubt normal people seek negative attention.

As for "****** material", I don't think anyone has the right to regulate what mental image I wish to conjure up during my alone time. Until the day you invent the mind-control device and achieve global dictatorship, I'll think about whatever I want in my head. Thank you very much.

*dreams of rainbows and unicorns*

[What a Succulent Ass]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

You just have to look for the person with an abnormal amount of cameras following their ass.

*Ugly laugh*

What I'm wondering is why TIM didn't immediately go after Oriana when Miranda gives him a verbal two fingers in the CB.

[iamweaver]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Everything you just typed reinforced everything I was saying.

You however, missed this twice.

Woman are almost always framed a certain way. As are men.

Look at Kaidan in the hospital. You don't think that was framed a certain way for a reason?

That's how it's ALWAYS done.

This is false. Any cursory viewing of the cut scenes shows that the camera is used differently.

Shots aren't framed because of the sex of the subject.  They may becreated to add emphasis to the developing story line, or the emotional impact of the scene, but they most certainly aren't done because the actors are male or female.

[RamilVenoard]

In light of all the discussions about shots of Miranda's buttocks, two notes:

Go back, play all three from start to finish and keep a running tally of how many times the camera view is from behind at butt-level. Even Admiral Hacket has an "ass-shot" just on the Normandy just before he gives that final speech in ME3... and the consort? 'common guys.

Furthermore, even if it was BioWare's intention, which would have been incredibly uncalled for, could you blame them? The coders, remember, are exactly that... coders... and have probably never seen a naked woman before, let alone one quite as callipygian (its a word, look it up). Thus: gratuitous shots of Miranda's lovely posterior.

[Kyuhyun]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

sth128 wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

Basically what i was saying is that you guys act that if a women shows her butt/boobs she asks for jokes and comments. I never said anything about rape jesus christ

I think you mean "if a woman wears revealing clothing". Anyone who wears revealing clothing must be asking for attention of some kind. You can't exactly fall into a skin-tight cat suit by accident then walk out the door completely oblivious.

And I imagine some folks would be kind of upset seeing "rape" followed by a certain religious figure.

Point is, I didn't make jokes or comments specific to Miranda's figures. I made a thread mocking her choice to not change her outfit nor hair style, two of arguably her most striking features.

But of course the thread devolved into discussion on camera angle and some sort of wording etiquette and gender inequality.

This is just so gross. When i wear revealing clothing i wear it because i want to and because i like it. Not because i want to hear inappropriate jokes from guys that make me uncomfortable. Women don't wear "skin tight cat suits" just to be ****** material for you guys or to get made fun of. 

I respect that, but then you have to understand it from a men's POV. In todays society, wearing "loose" clothes is seen in a way that we think you want to reveal on purpose for attention, and honesty, a lot of times we're right.

NO. you are NOT right and women don't do everything just to get attention from guys. we don't exist just to be there for YOU. like this is such disgusting way of thinking i dont even know what to say

Settle down and stop getting so huffy. I don't do it, and I never said anything that you just finished writing, keep up. I simply stated it that many girls who do wear loose clothes do it for attention, how do I know? first hand expirience, I was just explaining where the steroetype came from. I didn't say everyone and I dissagree with that notion, I believe females should be able to wear what they want without being judged in a derogatory way.

Even if they do actually wear "loose" clothing for attention it doesn't give men the right to be nasty about it? I was getting huffy because you were like "oooh but you gave to see it from a mans view" and its just...no...  I appreciate that you don't think that way and that's great really! But what i don't understand is why, if you disagree with it, say to me i should see it from a mans point of view. 

[Kyuhyun]

sth128 wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

This is just so gross. When i wear revealing clothing i wear it because i want to and because i like it. Not because i want to hear inappropriate jokes from guys that make me uncomfortable. Women don't wear "skin tight cat suits" just to be ****** material for you guys or to get made fun of. 

I see. So you have the right to wear what you want for whatever reason you deem necessary, but we as men cannot see or react to your outfits because we do not have the right to respond to outside stimuli?

And I didn't say anyone in revealing clothing deserve "inappropriate jokes". I said people wear revealing clothing seek attention of some kind. I doubt normal people seek negative attention.

As for "****** material", I don't think anyone has the right to regulate what mental image I wish to conjure up during my alone time. Until the day you invent the mind-control device and achieve global dictatorship, I'll think about whatever I want in my head. Thank you very much.

*dreams of rainbows and unicorns*

This is just disgusting, sexist and mysogynistic and i'm not even going to get into a discussion with you because i know you'll keep thinking "Oh well you can't stop me from being a nasty dick that's just what you get for wearing what you want!!!!" and you've been reported. Thanks. 

[Kel Riever]

Okay, not sure if commenting on this thread can lead to any good outcome.

Simply put, be fair. If you are going to have sexy clothes for the women, gotta have them for the men. Please everyone, you know what I mean? And that has nothing to do with ME, just in general. Then, honestly, if you are going to have something 'unrealistic' in your game...and you are going to ultimately decide it will be so because it is a sci-fi/fantasy/whatever setting, then to go and try to explain it or justify it is just damn silly. Sort of like a bad explanation for space magic. At a certain point, you just sound silly because we all know, in essence, you are just doing it to do it.

Miranda is supposed to be genetically perfect. Are we supposed to know this by the clothes she wears? In ME2, she obviously gets heat for what she wears from her enemy, and she also gets a chauvinistic comment from it by one of the engineers (who is known for that sort of thing, by the way). None of it, obviously, changes what Miranda thinks, and really, it is all about setting. To try to have some ludicrous meta-explanation about what she should or shouldn't wear, or how it gets her through the Citadel without being noticed just is belaboring a point that should be raised as a problem in a larger context (all women are portrayed unfairly) or overlooked as nit-picky (if you think that things are fairly done). I'm not making a judgement call on clothes, but I will say that it is a minor point when compared to things like glaring plot holes that bend back the entire series on its head.

[MegaSovereign]

Except that's not what I asked. I asked why you were here, in this thread.

Because I can? Why wouldn't I be here? Don't get coy, you clearly did not want an answer to that question. Which, as any person should, leaves me to believe you want to call me out and insult me.

The person is the one presenting the argument. The two are not wholly mutually exclusive.

If you attack the person making the argument, you're making it more personal than it should be. You randomly called me out when you didn't need to.

Cool? It's irrelevant, but um... Ok?

It's completely relevant. I never once said or remotely implied "You're wrong because I say so."

If I have insulted you before, then I truly do apologize. Otherwise, ****** off. You can't tell me where to post.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 15 juillet 2012 - 01:01 .

[sth128]

MACharlie1 wrote...

almondroy wrote...

I'm going to go with a metagaming reason--while IN STORY it makes total sense for her to alter her appearance, I think that BW left her in the outfit to make her easier for the PLAYER to locate on the Citadel, as compared to the relative inconvenience of wading through crowds of refugees to find other named characters.

Mmm...I think they just got lazy to be honest. She says "Shepard. Over here." 

Afterall, new players wouldn't know who to look for either. The least they could have done was thrown a jacket on her.

Not sure what you're trying to say. Are you implying that new players don't know Miranda so BW left her looking the same?

That makes no sense since players who don't know Miranda won't know what her looks like, period. It could be Garrus yelling those words while sounding like Wrex, the player can just figure it out once the conversation starts.

Besides, there's a map highlighting every point of interest... BW really should have put a jacket on Miranda. Stuff like this just take me out of the game completely.

[RamilVenoard]

I think BioWare underestimated the amount of Miranda fans that actually existed. And incase you were wondering, it's quite a damn few. With that in mind, they probably attempted to focus on other issues due to the rather pressing due date imposed by the evil, overarching, enemy of us all.

Naturally, of course, I am referring to EA.

[sth128]

Kyuhyun wrote...

sth128 wrote...

I see. So you have the right to wear what you want for whatever reason you deem necessary, but we as men cannot see or react to your outfits because we do not have the right to respond to outside stimuli?

And I didn't say anyone in revealing clothing deserve "inappropriate jokes". I said people wear revealing clothing seek attention of some kind. I doubt normal people seek negative attention.

As for "****** material", I don't think anyone has the right to regulate what mental image I wish to conjure up during my alone time. Until the day you invent the mind-control device and achieve global dictatorship, I'll think about whatever I want in my head. Thank you very much.

*dreams of rainbows and unicorns*

This is just disgusting, sexist and mysogynistic and i'm not even going to get into a discussion with you because i know you'll keep thinking "Oh well you can't stop me from being a nasty dick that's just what you get for wearing what you want!!!!" and you've been reported. Thanks. 

Well I can't stop you from doing what you think is right. Because I don't think it's right to control the thoughts of others. I also tend not label others, no matter how much I disagree with them. Clearly you don't share my attitudes.

BTW, "misogynistic". Just FYI.

[Kyuhyun]

sth128 wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

sth128 wrote...

I see. So you have the right to wear what you want for whatever reason you deem necessary, but we as men cannot see or react to your outfits because we do not have the right to respond to outside stimuli?

And I didn't say anyone in revealing clothing deserve "inappropriate jokes". I said people wear revealing clothing seek attention of some kind. I doubt normal people seek negative attention.

As for "****** material", I don't think anyone has the right to regulate what mental image I wish to conjure up during my alone time. Until the day you invent the mind-control device and achieve global dictatorship, I'll think about whatever I want in my head. Thank you very much.

*dreams of rainbows and unicorns*

This is just disgusting, sexist and mysogynistic and i'm not even going to get into a discussion with you because i know you'll keep thinking "Oh well you can't stop me from being a nasty dick that's just what you get for wearing what you want!!!!" and you've been reported. Thanks. 

Well I can't stop you from doing what you think is right. Because I don't think it's right to control the thoughts of others. I also tend not label others, no matter how much I disagree with them. Clearly you don't share my attitudes.

BTW, "misogynistic". Just FYI.

Oh wow thanks for correcting my typo that was clearly an accident and not the actual way i spell that word since i spelled it right a page before this. But thanks man, you're such a saint. FYI.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Everything you just typed reinforced everything I was saying.

You however, missed this twice.

Woman are almost always framed a certain way. As are men.

Look at Kaidan in the hospital. You don't think that was framed a certain way for a reason?

That's how it's ALWAYS done.

Something along these lines happens even (if not especially) in promotional material as well

It becomes much more apparent when you reverse the gender roles

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 15 juillet 2012 - 01:08 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Kyuhyun wrote...

Even if they do actually wear "loose" clothing for attention it doesn't give men the right to be nasty about it? I was getting huffy because you were like "oooh but you gave to see it from a mans view" and its just...no...  I appreciate that you don't think that way and that's great really! But what i don't understand is why, if you disagree with it, say to me i should see it from a mans point of view. 

I'm glad you see I don't see women in that way, while I do agree that people shouldn't say nasty stuff just because maybe a girl wants attention, I'm going to throw something out there. Maybe is because we're from difference places, I basically live in a horrible place in NYC, so it might be different from here to where you live but here is how things are here. About 85% of girls here who act "****ty" (I don't like to use that word, but I have to) wear loose clothing. That's what I meant when I said about seeing from someone else POV. I personally know better, but some people don't.

On Topic- Miranda is not like that, but It's a joke, I know it might get annoying but it won't go away and it's really not that serious.

[iamweaver]

Kel Riever wrote...

Okay, not sure if commenting on this thread can lead to any good outcome.

Simply put, be fair. If you are going to have sexy clothes for the women, gotta have them for the men. Please everyone, you know what I mean? And that has nothing to do with ME, just in general. Then, honestly, if you are going to have something 'unrealistic' in your game...and you are going to ultimately decide it will be so because it is a sci-fi/fantasy/whatever setting, then to go and try to explain it or justify it is just damn silly. Sort of like a bad explanation for space magic. At a certain point, you just sound silly because we all know, in essence, you are just doing it to do it.

Miranda is supposed to be genetically perfect. Are we supposed to know this by the clothes she wears? In ME2, she obviously gets heat for what she wears from her enemy, and she also gets a chauvinistic comment from it by one of the engineers (who is known for that sort of thing, by the way). None of it, obviously, changes what Miranda thinks, and really, it is all about setting. To try to have some ludicrous meta-explanation about what she should or shouldn't wear, or how it gets her through the Citadel without being noticed just is belaboring a point that should be raised as a problem in a larger context (all women are portrayed unfairly) or overlooked as nit-picky (if you think that things are fairly done). I'm not making a judgement call on clothes, but I will say that it is a minor point when compared to things like glaring plot holes that bend back the entire series on its head.

Miranda's dialogue and clothing reinforce this whole "perfection" theme.  Looking at the various Miranda romance cut scenes on youtube, even your relationship with Miranda is more sexualized than that with the other two squaddie LIs in ME3 ME2.  That's a good thing, to have each love story move differently.

Motivated by Taboo-XX's comments, I watched a number of the cut scenes for the different squaddies, and was impressed by the use of camera for each.  For example: for Jack, the camara is often frenetic and jumbled.

Modifié par iamweaver, 15 juillet 2012 - 01:11 .

[o Ventus]

MegaSovereign wrote...
Because I can? Why wouldn't I be here? Don't get coy, you clearly did not want an answer to that question. Which, as any person should, leaves me to believe you want to call me out and insult me.

My question was rhetorical. I didn't need or want a response. Your fault for doing it.

If you attack the person making the argument, you're making it more personal than it should be. You randomly called me out when you didn't need to.

This doesn't address my point.

It's completely relevant. I never once said or remotely implied "You're wrong because I say so."

If I have insulted you before, then I truly do apologize. Otherwise, ****** off. You can't tell me where to post.

Maybe not right here, no. Nobody said you did. But you have in the past, which was my point.

[o Ventus]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Something along these lines happens even (if not especially) in promotional material as well

It becomes much more apparent when you reverse the gender roles

You sir, win the internets. All of them.

[Kyuhyun]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

Even if they do actually wear "loose" clothing for attention it doesn't give men the right to be nasty about it? I was getting huffy because you were like "oooh but you gave to see it from a mans view" and its just...no...  I appreciate that you don't think that way and that's great really! But what i don't understand is why, if you disagree with it, say to me i should see it from a mans point of view. 

I'm glad you see I don't see women in that way, while I do agree that people shouldn't say nasty stuff just because maybe a girl wants attention, I'm going to throw something out there. Maybe is because we're from difference places, I basically live in a horrible place in NYC, so it might be different from here to where you live but here is how things are here. About 85% of girls here who act "****ty" (I don't like to use that word, but I have to) wear loose clothing. That's what I meant when I said about seeing from someone else POV. I personally know better, but some people don't.

On Topic- Miranda is not like that, but It's a joke, I know it might get annoying but it won't go away and it's really not that serious.

.... What do you mean "****ty"... Like, women act "****ty" because they're having sex or are doing sexual things? I don't see how that's a bad thing really... And i don't see how they deserve to get insults thrown at them for just doing whatever they want with their bodies. Especially words like "****". That's just plain gross. 

[sth128]

o Ventus wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Something along these lines happens even (if not especially) in promotional material as well

It becomes much more apparent when you reverse the gender roles

You sir, win the internets. All of them.

I agree. He wins the internets, the extranets, and even some butterfly nets.

On a completely unrelated note, I created this thread and it somehow splintered into 3 separate discussions all happening simultaneously. It's as if I created the Crucible of threads and docked it with a high EMS...

You can choose to talk about Miranda's odd outfit choice.

You can choose to talk about camera framing on female characters in popular media.

Or you can choose to talk about internet etiquette and gender inequality on the digital front.

Must... create a forth, "refusal" discussion.

Modifié par sth128, 15 juillet 2012 - 01:24 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Kyuhyun wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

Even if they do actually wear "loose" clothing for attention it doesn't give men the right to be nasty about it? I was getting huffy because you were like "oooh but you gave to see it from a mans view" and its just...no...  I appreciate that you don't think that way and that's great really! But what i don't understand is why, if you disagree with it, say to me i should see it from a mans point of view. 

I'm glad you see I don't see women in that way, while I do agree that people shouldn't say nasty stuff just because maybe a girl wants attention, I'm going to throw something out there. Maybe is because we're from difference places, I basically live in a horrible place in NYC, so it might be different from here to where you live but here is how things are here. About 85% of girls here who act "****ty" (I don't like to use that word, but I have to) wear loose clothing. That's what I meant when I said about seeing from someone else POV. I personally know better, but some people don't.

On Topic- Miranda is not like that, but It's a joke, I know it might get annoying but it won't go away and it's really not that serious.

.... What do you mean "****ty"... Like, women act "****ty" because they're having sex or are doing sexual things? I don't see how that's a bad thing really... And i don't see how they deserve to get insults thrown at them for just doing whatever they want with their bodies. Especially words like "****". That's just plain gross. 

.
@Bold-   So a girl having sex with multiple guys and not being able to control herself is not a bad thing, and just because she's a female she shouldn't be looked down upon for acting that way? Also, you mean to tell me is gross because I used a mature word that you obviously can't handle, but It's okay for a women to sell herself out. I heard enough, you are completely incompetent in understanding anything that contradicts your beliefs.

[Ticonderoga117]

sth128 wrote...
Must... create a forth, "refusal" discussion.

"Screw this, I'm out." *BSN implodes for no good reason*

[LadieGamer]

I'm not a good judge on the whole woman thing. I had mostly guy friends and was easily swayed to go with them to strip joints because if you brought a girl you got free wings and 1/2 price draft all night. My Dad was a dirty talker so it never bothered me, also, they have minds of their own if they wanna flash their tata's go right ahead who am I to judge, I'm just here for the free wings.

About Miranda, again I think the whole thing was to emphasis how perfect she is. I don't think they intended it to be 100% sexual but of course it was because she is a sexual person, her body language even to Femshep is very flirty/sexual.

[Kyuhyun]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Kyuhyun wrote...

Even if they do actually wear "loose" clothing for attention it doesn't give men the right to be nasty about it? I was getting huffy because you were like "oooh but you gave to see it from a mans view" and its just...no...  I appreciate that you don't think that way and that's great really! But what i don't understand is why, if you disagree with it, say to me i should see it from a mans point of view. 

I'm glad you see I don't see women in that way, while I do agree that people shouldn't say nasty stuff just because maybe a girl wants attention, I'm going to throw something out there. Maybe is because we're from difference places, I basically live in a horrible place in NYC, so it might be different from here to where you live but here is how things are here. About 85% of girls here who act "****ty" (I don't like to use that word, but I have to) wear loose clothing. That's what I meant when I said about seeing from someone else POV. I personally know better, but some people don't.

On Topic- Miranda is not like that, but It's a joke, I know it might get annoying but it won't go away and it's really not that serious.

.... What do you mean "****ty"... Like, women act "****ty" because they're having sex or are doing sexual things? I don't see how that's a bad thing really... And i don't see how they deserve to get insults thrown at them for just doing whatever they want with their bodies. Especially words like "****". That's just plain gross. 

.
@Bold-   So a girl having sex with multiple guys and not being able to control herself is not a bad thing, and just because she's a female she shouldn't be looked down upon for acting that way? Also, you mean to tell me is gross because I used a mature word that you obviously can't handle, but It's okay for a women to sell herself out. I heard enough, you are completely incompetent in understanding anything that contradicts your beliefs.

What even... I believe a woman can do with her body WHATEVER she wants. She can have sex as much as she wants with how many men or women she wants.  If that's what she wants, she can totally do it. And no i don't think that's a bad way and she should NEVER be looked down upon for doing what she wants with her OWN body.. and SL*T is not a mature word to refer to a woman. It's an insult. There's nothing mature about it. 

Modifié par Kyuhyun, 15 juillet 2012 - 01:26 .

[MegaSovereign]

o Ventus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...
Because I can? Why wouldn't I be here? Don't get coy, you clearly did not want an answer to that question. Which, as any person should, leaves me to believe you want to call me out and insult me.

My question was rhetorical. I didn't need or want a response. Your fault for doing it.

If you attack the person making the argument, you're making it more personal than it should be. You randomly called me out when you didn't need to.

This doesn't address my point.

It's completely relevant. I never once said or remotely implied "You're wrong because I say so."

If I have insulted you before, then I truly do apologize. Otherwise, ****** off. You can't tell me where to post.

Maybe not right here, no. Nobody said you did. But you have in the past, which was my point.

So it's my fault for questioning your animosity towards me. *rolls eyes*

And no I haven't. I would have remembered saying something out of character.

The fact that you're saying I'm wrong without providing any evidence sort of makes you the victim of your own accusation.

Clearly, you're not going to apologize or acknowledge that you've been acting like a dick. So there's no real point in me continuing this conversation. Goodbye.

[sth128]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

sth128 wrote...
Must... create a forth, "refusal" discussion.

"Screw this, I'm out." *BSN implodes for no good reason*

LadieGamer wrote...

I'm not a good judge on the whole woman thing. I had mostly guy friends and was easily swayed to go with them to strip joints because if you brought a girl you got free wings and 1/2 price draft all night. My Dad was a dirty talker so it never bothered me, also, they have minds of their own if they wanna flash their tata's go right ahead who am I to judge, I'm just here for the free wings.

About Miranda, again I think the whole thing was to emphasis how perfect she is. I don't think they intended it to be 100% sexual but of course it was because she is a sexual person, her body language even to Femshep is very flirty/sexual.

Yes! You have done it madam!

The forth topic of discussion in this thread is now FREE CHICKEN WINGS!!!

So the refusal ending really IS the best ending! You get free show AND wings!?:happy: