1198 réponses à ce sujet

[RShara]

hum de dum
I practically have this bookmarked

Modifié par RShara, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:18 .

[HK-90210]

1. Dramatic effect. They can't rightly execute Kai Leng then and there. Very anti-climactic. But seeing Thane take a few potshots at Leng doesn't have nearly the 'cool' effect as him having a gun to Leng's head. And if you need a logical reason, what better way to distract Leng? Shooting at him might just convince him to kill the councilor and run for it. It would take him 2 seconds. But putting a gun right to his head? Now he has no choice but to focus on Thane.
 
2. Because a gun is next to useless in hand to hand.
 
3. Kai Leng is stealthed. Shows that as soon as the camera pans over. Hardly a clear shot if you can't see the cereal-eating menace.
 
4. Not really sure where this screenie is, but it looks like Thane is busy rolling. within a second, he's going to be right back in between Shepard's team and Leng. Again, hardly a clear shot.
 
5. If you start insulting the limits of the graphics engine, no discussion about the logistics of the fight scene can be had. So it doesn't look like Kai Leng is gripping his sword. Does that mean he can't hold onto it? And the shields of a Phantom(Leng's 'class') are partially directional, based on that little shield they have in their glove, which I believe Leng had turned off at this point. Player class, and the biotic/tech abilities would be WAY too difficult to integrate into cutscenes. So they are meaningless. And Thane is RIGHT in front of Shepard. no clear shot for here. As for squaddies, I'm seeing a table and chairs that obscure Leng from their view, at least partially. It's a clear shot form the camera's view, not necessarily form the Squadies view.
 
6. Gun. Had to reload in very next camera shot. Tables. Chairs. Thane. Obstructions while target is lying prone, not providing much a target.
 
7. Thane: because I'm the one who doesn't have to directly protect the councilor, and I'm a badass mother****er.
 
8. He is, however, spinning and twirling in motion. Screenshots are not a good representation of such. Hard to hit a moving target. Also, miss, miss, miss, miss. It's a cutscene, and Leng has plot armor. He's the head henchman, he can't die yet.
 
9. Because he already had a running start, so he was committed to charging. Also, he only had two bullets left(If I recall the Phalanx's ammo correctly), and at that range, going into melee is a better option. But fact is, Leng had nearly all the advantages as soon as Thane charged. It was a calculated risk on Thane's part, and it didn't pay off. Leng was a stronger, faster opponent, and outplayed him because of it. If Thane was at his peak, I'm confident the charge would have worked, and he could have avoided the blade, or struck Leng before he got a chance to get the blade in a position to stab Thane. But that simply isn't the case.
 
Thane was going to lose this fight. We must accept that that was the way it was going to go. If one doesn't, then no amount of rationalization is going to convince them that any part of the fight makes sense, because they still see Thane as the one who SHOULD win(I'm not pointing to you, or anyone in particular). But that simply isn't the case. So it shoudln't be an arguement over how Thane could have won the fight. It should be on how exactly Bioware might have made it look better with him losing. And given that, I don't see all that many cases where they would have made it look a lot better without spending more resources on the fight than it was worth. I guessing we still disagree, however. Ah...the internet.....

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 16 juillet 2012 - 03:36 .

[RShara]

Talk to some martial artists about hand to hand and guns

[Steel Dancer]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Agreed and its hard to take the OP serioudly based on how Thane has wanted to die since you met him in ME2.  I guess he doesn't want Thane to have a honorable death that meant something for the Galaxy.

Steel Dancer wrote...

Nope, he wasn't looking for death, he was prepared for death. Significant difference. And that state of affairs changes if he's romanced.

Most assassins look for death based on they're searching for their targets.  Looking for death can be another term for accepting death a based on how death is everything.  Whether or not you romanced Thane, he looking for death or prepared for death.

Your ability to change how you meant words is impressive.

You quite clearly meant in your original comment that he was seeking death for himself in an attempt at redemption. Now you change the context to "he knows how to find death while hunting" or.. something. It honestly didn't make much sense.

Blueprotoss wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote... 

Again no. Thane was a good chracter in ME2. IN 3 he was reduced to a walking illness, nothing more, which is a rather damning trivialisation of both Thanes' character and terminal illness in general.

And as for all this "Thane had to have died, he was terminal" rubbish, answer me this: why does that mean he has to die during the course of the game?

Just think about that for a moment: Shepard can be saving the galaxy, hundreds of lives but not the one person they really want to*. Imagine how that would have altered the character and the players perspective on that: Synthesis really could cure him, Control lets Shepard use resources as they see fit (asuming they'd still care about love) while Destroy might almost certainly doom Thane, with medical resources stretched beyond breaking point. Now there's Bittersweet for you (apologies if I'm stepping on anyone's artistic integrity there...).

Another thing about that fight: It's insulting. Not just to Thane, but to Shepard and the squad too.

It says that Anyone who was there was only too happy or  - worse than that - unable to help in that fight in any way. Let's look at that: Garrus - crack shot sniper, one of the best around; Liara - powerful biotic; Javik - another powerful biotic; EDI - computer assisted reflexes and targetting; Vega - damn tough bull in a china shop. Oh and Shepard, of course, who can be any of that and more. 

Do not tell me that not one of those people wouldn't have gone for KL using something, warp, stasis, overload/incinerate or weapons fire at suspected locations... just something dammit! 

*and don't say that's what happened, because it isn't - I saw none of that in the game on the Thane romance scenes I've seen in any way at all.

It seems like you expected way too much from the ME2 squadmates in ME3 just like how some people expected more from Ashley, Kaidan, or Liara in ME2.  Either way most of the ME2 characters got a good treatment like Thane, Grunt, Miranda, and Mordin while thats a fact.  I could careless if you're a Thane fan because everyone has their own favorite squadmates ad LIs that don't invole him.  Btw I never said I romanced Thane while he was close friends with him just like everyone that was at one time on the Normandy other then Liaria.

As a point of fact I'm not that huge a Thane fan. I liked him as a character, but never romanced him on a playthough and was slightly irritated by the fact he had no set purpose on the Suicide Run (all of the other non-DLC chars could do something on their own).

And actually I did expect more from the ME2 squadmates in ME3. I expected the romances to have a point to them, their stories to mesh in with and add to the overall story arc and to actually make a major difference to the game if they weren't there. So much for that.

And one of the main arguments here is that a romanced Thane could and should be saveable/have a different outcome in the fight. Do pay attention, Blueprotoss. There's a good chap.

CastonFolarus wrote...
As for Shepard and co helping out, I see two issues. 1. They had to protect the councilor. If they had moved at all, it would have exposed him/her to risk of attack by Leng, thereby negating their main objective. 2. And any shots they fired, or any attempts at joining the fight in hand to hand would have simply been getting in the way. It would just have been putting Thane in more danger, and put the councilor at more risk.

So I'm not seeing Thane getting the idiot ball there. Just my opinion, though.

Edit: Again, wanna stress, I still think an option should be provided to save him. I just don't have too much of a problem with the fight scene itself, or the circustances leading up to it. Mostly romance dialogue and the lack of  a saving him option.

The whole thing is less idiot ball and waaaay more Cutscene Incompetence.

Some points i've raised elsewhere.

Thane not firing when he was at point blank range: This was dumb, especially as there was a long moment where he could have easily shot KL in the brain (to be be fair, he may have missed that even if the bullet had gone dead-center through KLs head). It would have been better to have KL have a sudden reaction to something he heard (troubled breathing/suppressed cough/ whatever) and start to react with the gun already near him and the bullet *just* missing him.

If Shepard still feels the Councillor is in danger, then why not just order the other two squaddies to get them out of the room while Thane and Shep take them on? Even with whole fight in cutscene land it would have been more in character and not left the player feeling like a passive observer. There are points where Thane is nowhere near KL, nooooo way would Shepard just stand there wondering what the ending of Blasto 6 is like.

Simple fact is: that fight doesn't work.

[RShara]

Steeldancer, ignore the troll

[MisterJB]

CastonFolarus wrote...

1. Dramatic effect. They can't rightly execute Kai Leng then and there. Very anti-climactic. But seeing Thane take a few potshots at Leng doesn't have nearly the 'cool' effect as him having a gun to Leng's head. And if you need a logical reason, what better way to distract Leng? Shooting at him might just convince him to kill the councilor and run for it. It would take him 2 seconds. But putting a gun right to his head? Now he has no choice but to focus on Thane.

Actually, it makes sense for the gun to not be able to fire while still collapsed which would explain why Thane didn't fire immediatelly. Once that humming sound is silent, which I assume means the gun is ready to fire, Thane shoots right away. However, at that point, Kai Leng had already swathed the drell's hand to a position where the bullet would not hit him.

[RShara]

At the point where I took the screenshot, the gun was already extended and firable. Thane waits till KL turns all the way around (approx 2 seconds) before firing.  Also Thane is an expert Marksman.  Why does he wait until he's right behind the guy to charge the gun?

Modifié par RShara, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:22 .

[Blueprotoss]

Steel Dancer wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Agreed and its hard to take the OP serioudly based on how Thane has wanted to die since you met him in ME2.  I guess he doesn't want Thane to have a honorable death that meant something for the Galaxy.

Steel Dancer wrote...

Nope, he wasn't looking for death, he was prepared for death. Significant difference. And that state of affairs changes if he's romanced.

Most assassins look for death based on they're searching for their targets.  Looking for death can be another term for accepting death a based on how death is everything.  Whether or not you romanced Thane, he looking for death or prepared for death.

Your ability to change how you meant words is impressive.

You quite clearly meant in your original comment that he was seeking death for himself in an attempt at redemption. Now you change the context to "he knows how to find death while hunting" or.. something. It honestly didn't make much sense.

Yet you're complaining over semantics and you know without a doubt that Thane has accepted death based on his past bad deeds.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:45 .

[Blueprotoss]

Steel Dancer wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...

Again no. Thane was a good chracter in ME2. IN 3 he was reduced to a walking illness, nothing more, which is a rather damning trivialisation of both Thanes' character and terminal illness in general.

And as for all this "Thane had to have died, he was terminal" rubbish, answer me this: why does that mean he has to die during the course of the game?

Just think about that for a moment: Shepard can be saving the galaxy, hundreds of lives but not the one person they really want to*. Imagine how that would have altered the character and the players perspective on that: Synthesis really could cure him, Control lets Shepard use resources as they see fit (asuming they'd still care about love) while Destroy might almost certainly doom Thane, with medical resources stretched beyond breaking point. Now there's Bittersweet for you (apologies if I'm stepping on anyone's artistic integrity there...).

Another thing about that fight: It's insulting. Not just to Thane, but to Shepard and the squad too.

It says that Anyone who was there was only too happy or - worse than that - unable to help in that fight in any way. Let's look at that: Garrus - crack shot sniper, one of the best around; Liara - powerful biotic; Javik - another powerful biotic; EDI - computer assisted reflexes and targetting; Vega - damn tough bull in a china shop. Oh and Shepard, of course, who can be any of that and more.

Do not tell me that not one of those people wouldn't have gone for KL using something, warp, stasis, overload/incinerate or weapons fire at suspected locations... just something dammit!

*and don't say that's what happened, because it isn't - I saw none of that in the game on the Thane romance scenes I've seen in any way at all.

It seems like you expected way too much from the ME2 squadmates in ME3 just like how some people expected more from Ashley, Kaidan, or Liara in ME2. Either way most of the ME2 characters got a good treatment like Thane, Grunt, Miranda, and Mordin while thats a fact. I could careless if you're a Thane fan because everyone has their own favorite squadmates ad LIs that don't invole him. Btw I never said I romanced Thane while he was close friends with him just like everyone that was at one time on the Normandy other then Liaria.

As a point of fact I'm not that huge a Thane fan. I liked him as a character, but never romanced him on a playthough and was slightly irritated by the fact he had no set purpose on the Suicide Run (all of the other non-DLC chars could do something on their own).

And actually I did expect more from the ME2 squadmates in ME3. I expected the romances to have a point to them, their stories to mesh in with and add to the overall story arc and to actually make a major difference to the game if they weren't there. So much for that.

And one of the main arguments here is that a romanced Thane could and should be saveable/have a different outcome in the fight. Do pay attention, Blueprotoss. There's a good chap.

I also not huge Thane fan, liked his character, and I didn't romance him. Having an assassin during the Suicide Mission isn't that useful especially when you don't want anyone to die.

You could have expected more from the ME2 sqaudmates while a good amount people forget that everyone could die in ME2, which caused them to get cameos in ME3 like Liara, Kaidan, and Ashley got ME2.

I did pay attention while Thane is going to die on his own terms whether you were comrades, close friends, or partners.

[coldwetn0se]

Regardless of how one interprets Thane's actions (well done vs Derpity-do), I think my biggest problem still comes down to Shepard and Co. They are not glued to the floor, the gravitational pull in the very spots they are standing in have not increased......then maybe "moving" is the right course of action.

After the Biotic smackdown Thane gives, you can see that the team is near the Councilor; one of the squaddies could have easily grabbed and thrown him down under cover. The other two could have moved....I mean talk about immersion breaking; whenever I play in combat, I am always looking at where I can 'move' to, where the advantage is, where cover is.....and since I play Shepard (as we all do), then even out of our control, Shepard should react. Throw in the fact that if you are playing a vanguard (charging in to combat), or an Infiltrator (looking for good shot locations), Shep would have immediately started moving. This would have put Thane in much less harms way (if not completely OUT of harms way), and would have been keeping with how we play our Sheps in combat. I understand that they are not going to make animation for every class and move Shep could make, but just the pure act of moving, dodging, cover hopping, lining up the site would have been more in keeping with Shepard (and the squaddies) that we play.

Simply put, this fight was like so many fights they put in movies and TV; staged for cinematic effect. For some, BW succeeded. For others, they did not. If it works for you, then that is probably a good thing (since it is what everyone got). If it doesn't work for you, then just because some like it, doesn't mean those that don't will start seeing it any different. For me; completely immersion breaking.

[Blueprotoss]

RShara wrote...

Steeldancer, ignore the troll

Yet you're still talking and you also still need to learn the definition of "troll" based on your abuse of the word.

RShara wrote...

At the point where I took the screenshot, the gun was already extended and firable. Thane waits till KL turns all the way around (approx 2 seconds) before firing.  Also Thane is an expert Marksman.  Why does he wait until he's right behind the guy to charge the gun?

Yet you're meaninglessly arguing over semantics based on how it didn't go your way. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:50 .

[RShara]

So to get back on topic.

I agree with the OP, in that I think Bioware did a bang up job of trivializing Thane all by themselves.

If his death had been given meaning, in a well-choreographed fashion, with something that only he could do, and he was honored for it afterward, or even mentioned, then I think we'd all have been sad but been okay with losing our favorite drell.

But death of an established and popular character to introduce Cereal Killer, and in the process showing that character as a combat-idiot, and then forgetting all about him is pretty bad form.

And the way it was handled and the subsequent...unpleasantness...directed to those who are protesting that treatment has left a bad taste in many people's mouths.

[Steel Dancer]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Steel Dancer wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Agreed and its hard to take the OP serioudly based on how Thane has wanted to die since you met him in ME2.  I guess he doesn't want Thane to have a honorable death that meant something for the Galaxy.

Steel Dancer wrote...

Nope, he wasn't looking for death, he was prepared for death. Significant difference. And that state of affairs changes if he's romanced.

Most assassins look for death based on they're searching for their targets.  Looking for death can be another term for accepting death a based on how death is everything.  Whether or not you romanced Thane, he looking for death or prepared for death.

Your ability to change how you meant words is impressive.

You quite clearly meant in your original comment that he was seeking death for himself in an attempt at redemption. Now you change the context to "he knows how to find death while hunting" or.. something. It honestly didn't make much sense.

Yet you're complaining over semantics and you know without a doubt that Thane has accepted death based on his past bad deeds.

Right... I'll break this down in an easy to read and understand format shall I?

When we first meet Thane, he's accepting of his own death. He has come to terms with his mortality and is doing his best to make things better. This is what's meant by "he was prepared for death". He sinks deeper into this state if Kolyat is lost to him.

After he's romanced (and this means he will have reconnected with Kolyat) he is now afraid of dying, because of what he would lose: both his son and Shepard. He is no longer accepting of his own mortality and wishes to live and fight anew. He has awoken, once again, from the battle-sleep that he lapsed back towards after the death of his wife.


A romanced Thane should neither want nor accept his own death. He has more than enough reasons to keep living and BioWare dropped the ball on this.

If anything Thane not surviving as an LI hurt's his character: it implies that everything that happens between Thane and Shepard has little to no effect on him. And that, romanced or not, is not true to the Thane I saw in ME2. He was someone who felt things deeply.

RShara wrote...

Steeldancer, ignore the troll

It's fine, I've said my piece now. *relaxes* 

[LanceSolous13]

And, so that we don't have a huge difference between a non-romanced Thane and a romanced one, Thane very well could want to live for Kolyat alone and Shepard as a very good friend.

[Saberchic]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

And, so that we don't have a huge difference between a non-romanced Thane and a romanced one, Thane very well could want to live for Kolyat alone and Shepard as a very good friend.

True. But just because someone wants to live, it doesn't mean it happens. He was in the final stages of his disease. To miraculously cure him would have trivialized his character. His death was honorable; he died to save the councilor. He made a difference and he reconnected with his son. These are good things and should not be ignored.

Having said that, I really feel that Bioware dropped the ball on Thane's story. A romanced Thane should have had more matierial for closure. There should have been way more closure and acknowledgment of the relationship (even on a friendship level).

[RShara]

Saberchic wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

And, so that we don't have a huge difference between a non-romanced Thane and a romanced one, Thane very well could want to live for Kolyat alone and Shepard as a very good friend.

True. But just because someone wants to live, it doesn't mean it happens. He was in the final stages of his disease. To miraculously cure him would have trivialized his character. His death was honorable; he died to save the councilor. He made a difference and he reconnected with his son. These are good things and should not be ignored.

Having said that, I really feel that Bioware dropped the ball on Thane's story. A romanced Thane should have had more matierial for closure. There should have been way more closure and acknowledgment of the relationship (even on a friendship level).

True that Thane might have still died even though he wanted to live.  If it had been handled correctly, there wouldn't have been a problem

But the way that they did handle it is what cheapened and trivialized him.

And as the OP notes, there are ways to save him that would have been in character, relevant to the story, and appropriately done so that it wouldn't be some stupid magic cure.  I feel that just as his death could have been done appropriately so that it wouldn't cheapen him, his life could be done the same way.

[MisterJB]

RShara wrote...

At the point where I took the screenshot, the gun was already extended and firable.

It clearly isn't. Compare it with later screenshots.

Thane waits till KL turns all the way around (approx 2 seconds) before firing. 

You can hear an humming sound during those 2 seconds. Once it's silent, Thane fires imediatelly.
This suggests the gun was still charging.

Also Thane is an expert Marksman.  Why does he wait until he's right behind the guy to charge the gun?

Because Bioware wanted a close quarters fight.

[HK-90210]

Saberchic wrote...

True. But just because someone wants to live, it doesn't mean it happens. He was in the final stages of his disease. To miraculously cure him would have trivialized his character. His death was honorable; he died to save the councilor. He made a difference and he reconnected with his son. These are good things and should not be ignored.

Having said that, I really feel that Bioware dropped the ball on Thane's story. A romanced Thane should have had more matierial for closure. There should have been way more closure and acknowledgment of the relationship (even on a friendship level).

I agree with pretty much everything you say, but I just don't think that making Thane's death avoidable trivializes it. No more than making Mordin's, or Miranda's, or heck Shepard's, avoidable. Or, to take it from Bioware's other franchise, the Warden who survives slaying the Archdemon(either through having someone else deal the final blow, or the Dark Promise), does not in any way cheapen the Warden who makes the ultimate sacrifice.

And the cure need not be miraculous. The hanar have been working on it, afterall. The mission to obtain it from a remote research outpost, for instance, could lead to a great moral choice. Do you take the cure, and bring a lot of drell a much-needed cure for a leaiding cause of death amoung their species? Or do you save the hanar reasearchers responsible for creating the cure? Imagine having to make that choice. Heck, if Bioware pulled it off right, curign Thane could be damn peripheral.

Curing KS would bring a great deal of War Assets from the drell, or saving the scientists could add to the Crucible War Assets. There wouldn't be a right or wrong to it. And hey, maybe if Thane is alive, and you talk with him about it, you can save them both, but at the cost of his life. Wouldn't that be a death just as meaningful as before, if not moreso? And if Thane is loyal, maybe there's a chance for him to survive.

It's a mission worth the development time, methinks.

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 16 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .

[Ghost]

Ser Bard wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Talking about Female fan treatment...

Yeah.....
1.Garrus or Kaidan alone got more content than Miranda, Jack,  and Ash.

2. Kelly and Allers are not really LIs.

Garrus is only a romance option in 3 if he was romanced in 2. Kaidan has a 50% chance of being dead. It's hardly the same thing especially when you throw in the fact Jacob and Thane have so much less romance content than Miranda, Jack and Ashley it's not even funny.


I'm not convinced there should be an option to cure Thane or even save him from Lang but there should have been more scenes and dialogue, an acknowledgemet of his death.

1.Miranda, Jack, and Tali are only romance options if romanced in 2.

2.If you do a new game you can choose who dies on Virmire. 

3.More than Jack?

[wildannie]

Ghost1017 wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Talking about Female fan treatment...

Yeah.....
1.Garrus or Kaidan alone got more content than Miranda, Jack,  and Ash.

2. Kelly and Allers are not really LIs.

Garrus is only a romance option in 3 if he was romanced in 2. Kaidan has a 50% chance of being dead. It's hardly the same thing especially when you throw in the fact Jacob and Thane have so much less romance content than Miranda, Jack and Ashley it's not even funny.


I'm not convinced there should be an option to cure Thane or even save him from Lang but there should have been more scenes and dialogue, an acknowledgemet of his death.

1.Miranda, Jack, and Tali are only romance options if romanced in 2.

2.If you do a new game you can choose who dies on Virmire. 

3.More than Jack?

I have no idea what point you are trying to make, it is a cold hard fact that straight female shepard has less options and poorer treatment in the LI department... 

Its a pretty big ask to expect people to go back and play from ME1 to be able to import a straight human romance.  

[Saberchic]

CastonFolarus wrote...

I agree with pretty much everything you say, but I just don't think that making Thane's death avoidable trivializes it. No more than making Mordin's, or Miranda's, or heck Shepard's, avoidable. Or, to take it from Bioware's other franchise, the Warden who survives slaying the Archdemon(either through having someone else deal the final blow, or the Dark Promise), does not in any way cheapen the Warden who makes the ultimate sacrifice.

And the cure need not be miraculous. The hanar have been working on it, afterall. The mission to obtain it from a remote research outpost, for instance, could lead to a great moral choice. Do you take the cure, and bring a lot of drell a much-needed cure for a leaiding cause of death amoung their species? Or do you save the hanar reasearchers responsible for creating the cure? Imagine having to make that choice. Heck, if Bioware pulled it off right, curign Thane could be damn peripheral.

Curing KS would bring a great deal of War Assets from the drell, or saving the scientists could add to the Crucible War Assets. There wouldn't be a right or wrong to it. And hey, maybe if Thane is alive, and you talk with him about it, you can save them both, but at the cost of his life. Wouldn't that be a death just as meaningful as before, if not moreso? And if Thane is loyal, maybe there's a chance for him to survive.

It's a mission worth the development time, methinks.

I guess I just have a different way of looking at Thane's story arc. For me, the message is about really knowing what it means to be alive. He reconnects with his son and finds love with femShep (even if she doesn't romance him, he still calls her Siha-- just never explains it). In essence, he finds meaning where he saw none before.

He comes to terms with it and has accepted the inevitable outcome. He speaks of this when you first meet him at the hospital. He says, "It's freeing to find no requirements placed on me. No responsiblities, no fear. It is a good end to a life." Some might call this a retcon because of the one night he shared with Shep in her cabin where he breaks down and finally admits that he's scared of dying, but I disagree. One vulnerable moment does not mean he completely changed his stance. It simply means he has moments of weakness too.

A friend of mine had a disease and died. Did she want to live? Absolutely. Did I want her to live? You bet. Did wishing this change her fate? No, it did not. So I watched her die. And do you know what we did? We spent time together. While there were a couple of times she did break down and cry, she spent most of the time she did have left enjoying simple things. She did not let the inevitability of her condition stop her from doing that. She talked a lot about what was happenening to her. She said that actually helped her help others come to terms with it as well as herself. She left this earth content with what she did, and Thane's story seems to parallel that.

Often people bring up the genophage and what a miracle cure that is, but in actuality, it's really not. Maleon worked on the genophage with Mordin. He had a much clearer idea of what exactly was going on and what had been done when he decided to try and cure it. That's a major difference than finding a disease and starting from scratch to eradicate it and trying to cure a disease that was made. Mordin was a major contributor to the making of the genophage; he's more intimately knowledgable about that than the hanar scientists are about Kepral's since he helped to create it. Add that to Maleon's data and he is already strides ahead.

I like Thane, and I am glad he found meaningness and happiness in life again. But miraculously curing him (and at this stage in his illness it would be miraculous) would cheapen his storyline. The goal was not to extend his life, but to awaken him to it once again. The focus of Thane is his emotional journey, not beating the disease, and that message is more powerful if he doesn't make it because life is precious. It's one of the things that makes his death so potent.

[RShara]

Ashley/Kaidan: 50/50 chance of either being dead. Ash gets a bit less romantic content than Kaidan. Same VS missions
Tali/Garrus: Must be romanced in 2. Tali gets a bit less romantic content (but I think it's better done). Both get own missions.
Miranda/Jacob: Miranda gets some romantic content. Jacob gets none. Both get own missions (sort of).
Jack/Thane: Jack gets some romantic content and her own mission.. Thane gets little romantic content, no mission, and dies.

No other straight options for FemShep.

There is just a tad bit of disparity there, yes?

[RShara]

He comes to terms with it and has accepted the inevitable outcome. He speaks of this when you first meet him at the hospital. He says, "It's freeing to find no requirements placed on me. No responsiblities, no fear. It is a good end to a life." Some might call this a retcon because of the one night he shared with Shep in her cabin where he breaks down and finally admits that he's scared of dying, but I disagree. One vulnerable moment does not mean he completely changed his stance. It simply means he has moments of weakness too.

This is the part that a lot of us dispute. In ME2, there are lots of times where he is no longer accepting, and there is no character development or explanation of why he has gone back to the accepting attitude that Femshep so arduously weened him away from.  It's not just the moments in the cabin at the end of ME2, but his comments during the romance arc, and his letter from LotSB.

And you're right, it probably is perspective.  There are ways to handle him being cured/extended without cheapening him, but Bioware took the easy way out and just shuffled him off to the side, and completely forgot about him.  THAT cheapens him far more than extending his life ever would, imo.

If they had to cheapen him, couldn't they have done it so that he lives afterward? lol  (Yes, I would have preferred a cheap cure to a cheap death!)

Modifié par RShara, 16 juillet 2012 - 07:58 .

[wildannie]

 @Saberchic
I am very sorry that you lost your friend, and am glad that Thane's appearance in ME3 resonated with you in a positive way.  However, I do not share your viewpoint.  

You seem to be making assumptions about the feasibility for a cure because it suits your perspective, but the fact is that their were various potential treatments that were foreshadowed by bioware that should at the very least have been explored through conversations but weren't.  If BW had never given the fans hope with foreshadowed treatments and online campaigns maybe a valid argument could be made that it would 'cheapen' or 'trivialize' his character but they did and therefore the argument is weak.  Thane *had* options, they should have been explored and been successful depending upon his loyalty and LI status.

There is no amount of handwaving that can get me through the Shep Thane romance in ME3, I shouldn't have to make up a string of excuses about what must have happened for the story to make sense. 

[Ghost]

wildannie wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

Ser Bard wrote...

Ghost1017 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Talking about Female fan treatment...

Yeah.....
1.Garrus or Kaidan alone got more content than Miranda, Jack,  and Ash.

2. Kelly and Allers are not really LIs.

Garrus is only a romance option in 3 if he was romanced in 2. Kaidan has a 50% chance of being dead. It's hardly the same thing especially when you throw in the fact Jacob and Thane have so much less romance content than Miranda, Jack and Ashley it's not even funny.


I'm not convinced there should be an option to cure Thane or even save him from Lang but there should have been more scenes and dialogue, an acknowledgemet of his death.

1.Miranda, Jack, and Tali are only romance options if romanced in 2.

2.If you do a new game you can choose who dies on Virmire. 

3.More than Jack?

I have no idea what point you are trying to make, it is a cold hard fact that straight female shepard has less options and poorer treatment in the LI department... 

Its a pretty big ask to expect people to go back and play from ME1 to be able to import a straight human romance.  

"Straight female shepard has less options and poorer treatment in the LI department"

1. Yeah... like I said before having more content with Kaidan or Garrus alone than Ash, Miranda, Jack, and maybe even Tali is poorer treatment?

2. You look at the numbers for FemShep VS MaleShep rather than the content of each particular romance.

3. You can romance Kaidan without an import save.

4. I do agree that what they did to Jacob was "poor treatment".