1198 réponses à ce sujet

[Tashash]

CastonFolarus wrote...

And I think that in the time it would take to coordinate this kind of movement, the fight would be over. It's not as if Thane was all that intent on working in tandem with Shepard's team in the first place. He's an assassin, trained to work alone. If someone else gets involved, it might actually make Thane less able to beat Leng.

But he did it well enough all through ME2......Just putting it out there. TIM would never have had Shepard recruit Thane for his/her team if he couldn't work in a team.

 Not that it isn't somewhat enjoyable, in its own way. Devil's Advocate is a fun game .

I love that game!

[HK-90210]

Tashash wrote...

But he did it well enough all through ME2......Just putting it out there. TIM would never have had Shepard recruit Thane for his/her team if he couldn't work in a team.

This is true. I have no doubt that Thane CAN work with a group. I just think that, given Thane's background and specialties, he works better alone. Also, Thane last worked with a team 6 months ago, and it was a differnt team. And he was in top shape. Just another set of rationalizations as to why I don't consider the fight scene detrimental to Thane, or Shepard and co.

Not that I don't understand people who do find it detrimental. Their arguments certainly hold weight. I just fall into the 'not all that bothered by it' crowd.

Tashash wrote...
I love that game!

It's great, isn't it? What's your top score? I once had to argue the pro-Star Trek side of things in a Star Wars crowd. Sucked, cause I was on their side, but I was the only one in the group who'd actually seen anything beyond the original 6 movies, so.....

[Bluecansam]

CastonFolarus wrote...
The VS would hardly have been sufficient enough to protect two councilors and a 'douchcanoe' if Kai Leng had attacked. The VS would have been toast, since he/she would have to try and protect their three charges while confronting Leng. Hell, they weren't able to fight off Eva on their own.

This is, afterall, cutscene version of the VS, not gameplay version. Same for everybody involved. Except Leng. He's a little easier to fight in the cutscene than he is in the actual boss fights. At least on Insanity, anyway.

Yeah, I know. I mostly just wanted to call Udina a douchecanoe. :innocent: However, I do think they were making it seem like the VS was doing fine against Cerberus on his/her own, at least in the limited capacity they encountered them in. Also, my point still stands that it shouldn't have been THAT difficult to shield the salarian councilor from harm with just one or two squadmates. At any time, Shepard should have been able to intervene. And Thane IS used to working with Shepard, even if he usually prefers to work alone.

Oh, and I remember what I was gonna say before. Tech and biotic powers. Shepard has them. Many of them can go around obstacles. No need to worry about accidentally hitting Thane. Sure, it's a cutscene, but if they're going to make it impossible to save Thane, they should at least address different avenues of attack.

[wildannie]

@squee

I'm not sure that BeefheartSpud was being serious with that post, might be wrong though.

[RShara]

I know he's not, no worries He's mocking a certain other poster that throws bizarre cliches and accusations out at random people when he disagrees.

[Blueprotoss]

RShara wrote...

I know he's not, no worries He's mocking a certain other poster that throws bizarre cliches and accusations out at random people when he disagrees.

Yet you shouldn't contradict yourself then based on what happened a couplle pages ago.  Its better to have a debate without namecalling when there's a difference of opinion or discussing the facts instead of reducing yourself to a mindless arguement.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 19 juillet 2012 - 04:19 .

[Blueprotoss]

Squeegee83 wrote...

This isn't a mindless agrugement, you just refuse to get down to the core of the problem. To address the deepness of what happen here... well you would have no agrument anymore. I can send you plenty of stories... like I did to BioWare about the core issue.

Yet you're creating the problem based on how this topic is mainly based on opinion, which I'm completely fine with.  Btw fan fics are fan fics while that means that they're just more opinions.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Do you want to know what the core problem is? What I have been facing for months? Or do you still want to come into this thread and argue storyline? Because if you honestly think the only problem here is storyline... you are gravely mistaken. There were a lot of people who connected to Thane due to their own personal experiences.

Writing is all about opinion and you should know that everyone can't be pleased by on their own likes and dislikes.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

I had a man at one point pm me so upset that they chose to kill Thane then instead of sending out the message that there is always hope for the condemned. He was dying from cancer. Can you imagine how it would be like to be sick yourself and hoping for the best for Thane? Only have to end up playing a hospital death scene so others like yourself can be happy? What is truly sad about this, he, himself was in the hospital playing this game. Don't you think this is a tad bit messed up? He romanced Thane because he felt there was going to be an option granted to those who did romance the character.

 Thane has always been a dead man walking since his character was introduced in ME2.  He's just an assassin riting wrongs while shouldering a terminal illness.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

BioWare messed up, BIG TIME. You are not helping the problem.

Yet Bioware has done no wrongs based solely on how ME is  Bioware's story not our story.

[wildannie]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet Bioware has done no wrongs based solely on how ME is  Bioware's story not our story.

well, they may well turn out to have wronged themselves, their reputation has been dented, and there seems to be a significant number of people who will NOT be pre-ordering again.  I certainly won't be, at best I'll be going for bargain bin, but I might just go for a 2nd hand console editions.

You spend a lot of time arguing here but you have nothing but vague general points to make, and try and dismiss detailed arguement about content with them.  I'm sure you must find reading these arguements boring (maybe that is why you don't bother to engage with them) I know I certainly find your 'points' to be devoid of any value.

[Blueprotoss]

wildannie wrote...

well, they may well turn out to have wronged themselves, their reputation has been dented, and there seems to be a significant number of people who will NOT be pre-ordering again.  I certainly won't be, at best I'll be going for bargain bin, but I might just go for a 2nd hand console editions.

If Bioware had a bad reputation then why does a small group of people complain then they still by the next installment while that can be said with Madden, CoD, Street Fighter, Elder Scrolls, Mario, Zelda, Halo, and Uncharted.  Btw never say never based on you will always break your promises based on human nature.

wildannie wrote... 

You spend a lot of time arguing here but you have nothing but vague general points to make, and try and dismiss detailed arguement about content with them.  I'm sure you must find reading these arguements boring (maybe that is why you don't bother to engage with them) I know I certainly find your 'points' to be devoid of any value.

I'm here to debate not to argue and I'm pretty far from vague but at least I don't overthink things like some people.   I would rather have boring factual points then overzealous opinionated points.  Btw insulting people devoids the value of points not whether something is interesting or not.

[Blueprotoss]

Squeegee83 wrote...

I wasn't speaking of fan fics. Fan fics are based off people's fantasies. What I was talking about was the writings of people's personal experiences in dealing with illness/death. They may be only opinions, but opinions that can be hardly ignored. These are the opinions of why we connected and thought there should have been an option to save Thane.

You can't ignore what the writers want based on how its their story.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

We, for the most part, are a much older fan base. I have people reaching into their late 50's realizing that something went wrong here. I have no choice but to learn from them for I am only still in my late 20's. I get the feeling (and this is my own opinion) that many of us feel it is dumb to think there should have not been only one outcome in a game. My own mother, in her late 70's, thought it was dumb not to give an option. I sat there playing ME3 with her and she chose Thane. If only I had a camera at the time when she gave "the mom disapproval look", you probably sit there and laugh. For those who have faced death first hand, all of this comes off stupid.

If you were really part of an older fanbase then you would have moved on by now or this wouldn't have bothered you that much alone based on Bioware's history.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Sure, I know that. I have dealt with many people since I started a campaign months ago. I speak out for those who know of the ugliness of life/death. Someone has to bring this issue forth. I never thought it would be me.

Yet you're beating a dead horse especially when writing is still subjective.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Ah, but here is where you go wrong. There was a chance to turn his tragic character around. We just happen to catch it. Sadly, for others, they did not.

I see you would like Thane to contradict his established charcter in ME2.  Thane is a tragic character just like Mordin and Legion while I'm not surprised that all 3 die.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

They have done wrong, by giving us false hope. It may indeed be BioWare's story, but it doesn't mean I have to play their game and buy any future content from them. Which I haven't. So which way has helped them the most? Sticking to their lame story or gaining more money from their fans? You decide.

Yet Bioware  still hasn't done anything wrong based on ME is their story not or story.  You can have an opinion that Bioware screwed up while its a fact that they didn't screw up based on its their work.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 20 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .

[wildannie]

Blueprotoss wrote...

wildannie wrote...

well, they may well turn out to have wronged themselves, their reputation has been dented, and there seems to be a significant number of people who will NOT be pre-ordering again.  I certainly won't be, at best I'll be going for bargain bin, but I might just go for a 2nd hand console editions.

If Bioware had a bad reputation then why does a small group of people complain then they still by the next installment while that can be said with Madden, CoD, Street Fighter, Elder Scrolls, Mario, Zelda, Halo, and Uncharted.  Btw never say never based on you will always break your promises based on human nature.

There's always going to be unhappy customers, but not usually on this scale, there were different reasons why people left BW, mostly the endings.  but the outrage and bad feeling is pretty much unpresidented

I will buy their games bargain bin if I feel the game needs to be played on PC, otherwise I'll be buying 2nd hand...  I always pre-order games, BW/EA just made themselves the exception to the rule.

wildannie wrote... 

You spend a lot of time arguing here but you have nothing but vague general points to make, and try and dismiss detailed arguement about content with them.  I'm sure you must find reading these arguements boring (maybe that is why you don't bother to engage with them) I know I certainly find your 'points' to be devoid of any value.

Blueprotoss wrote... I'm here to debate not to argue and I'm pretty far from vague but at least I don't overthink things like some people.   I would rather have boring factual points then overzealous opinionated points.  Btw insulting people devoids the value of points not whether something is interesting or not.

You don't have any facts, you just have your own opinions, and you value them so highly that you fail to engage with any actual discussion of points.  'insulting people devoids the value of points'  that was not an insult that was a cold hard FACT about how I view your arguments.

Modifié par wildannie, 20 juillet 2012 - 07:08 .

[LanceSolous13]

As I've said else where, I believe that if the fanbase of a character felt they didn't get enough screen time, I don't see the problem in giving them more.

I don't have much of an issue with Legion's Death. But, I'm not a giant Legion fan and his fans say otherwise. Now, Would I be bothered by Legion getting a reworked Death to appease those fans? Nope. Not at all. I'd in fact support them because I know how it feels to have a favorite character die and an unappeasing way.

With Thane, its not like an entire rework of his death is in order. Simply building upon it would work fine. If Capitan Kirahe is dead in ME3, the scene progresses as it does currently. If Kirahe is alive and so is Thane, Both work together and Kai Leng runs.

Ta-da! Fixed!

[Twilight_Princess]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

As I've sa If Kirahe is alive and so is Thane, Both work together and Kai Leng runs.

Ta-da! Fixed!

I know right! This would have been great! Instead Kirahe is still hiding while Thane is doing all the work. So not only does Thane get NO BACK UP (even from shep!) but invisible kirahe is just standing there!

[RShara]

Kirrahe was the smart one

[Blueprotoss]

wildannie wrote...

There's always going to be unhappy customers, but not usually on this scale, there were different reasons why people left BW, mostly the endings.  but the outrage and bad feeling is pretty much unpresidented

Scale is
a bad example especially when there will always be unhappy people and a small group of people isn't an outrage. 

wildannie wrote... 

I will buy their games bargain bin if I feel the game needs to be played on PC, otherwise I'll be buying 2nd hand...  I always pre-order games, BW/EA just made themselves the exception to the rule.

Again never say never based on you will always break your promises based on human nature. 

wildannie wrote...  

You don't have any facts, you just have your own opinions, and you value them so highly that you fail to engage with any actual discussion of points.  'insulting people devoids the value of points'  that was not an insult that was a cold hard FACT about how I view your arguments.

Ironically the facts is Thane's character and the opinion is what you think should have hould have happened to Thane.    Btw capitalizing full words and insulting people are still useless.

[Blueprotoss]

Squeegee83 wrote...

Or can I? Since Jacob's and Thane's romance became a question of gender? Do you honestly think if Thane was a male intended romance we be sitting here having this debate? I 100% believe if Liara was written in as a dying character, there would have been an option to save her. What was the point for a female intended romance in ME2 to only throw their female base to the side at the end in ME3? Of course people would want to save their female/male romance (no matter the character) in ME3. This is just human nature.

If Liara was meant  to die as a LI then I would move on just like what happened with Legion.  Ironically the relationships into  ME2 weren't really meant be deep based on everyone could die.

 

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Trust me, many of us have moved on. Getting people back on board with this have been like pulling teeth. I had to yell at my own fan base a few times to get people moving back on the subject. We are dying off. It's sad to see. Perhaps, I am just young and have more energy to fight. But most have moved on.

There's really no reason to this based on ME2 and the problem is that if everyone supplied contrustive feedback then something might change.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

I know when I am beating a dead horse. I have used this tactic years ago when I was little. However what I do know/see now is a company ignoring the issue because they know they are wrong in it. I know this because I work for a company who is using the same tactics when it comes to NOT admitting that they are wrong. 

Bioware might be ignoring you guys based on the pettiness thats going on but ME is still their baby not ours.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Like I already said to you once before... Legion and Mordin are not LI's. I don't get why you are trying to use this as an example. You have to know that this falls flat by now. The problem is... and maybe you are not listening, but a romance Thane DOES contradict his character in ME3. 

Being a LI doesn't matter while the character does and you're acting like nobody likes Legion or Mordin based on a Thane eclipse.   The problem is that Bioware created ME and that means they choose what happens in their series.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Haven't this thread and the many opinions of others not make you realize that BW screwed up? Are you that dense? Of course they screwed up! When I get a glitchy, half a@s romance and a death scene. They obviously didn't put any work into it.

I see that you're not willing to move on or except that Bioware wants to do what they want to do.  I'm not in dense at all while I see you're in denial based on how you're complaing about opinion not the facts.  Btw writing is subjective.

[RShara]

Yeah his illness was a redundant facet, imo. It's like angst puled on top of agony *sigh*. But, they could have done something awesome with it, instead of the cop out that they took.

If his illness had MEANT something (i.e. provided a path to curing the entire drell race) or if his death had MEANT something (brought the salarians into the fight sooner, or at least an increase in war assets) then it wouldn't have been so bad.

Instead, it's cheap and meaningless and no one remembers him at all.

[Blueprotoss]

RShara wrote...

Yeah his illness was a redundant facet, imo. It's like angst puled on top of agony *sigh*. But, they could have done something awesome with it, instead of the cop out that they took.

This is mostly opinion here, which is okay.

 

RShara wrote... 

If his illness had MEANT something (i.e. provided a path to curing the entire drell race) or if his death had MEANT something (brought the salarians into the fight sooner, or at least an increase in war assets) then it wouldn't have been so bad. 

 His illness was based around his character which was meaningful whether or not you agree.   Personally nodody doesn't know if there's a "real" cure or his death later lead to a cure.  You do get Salarian support based on Thane saving the councilour and you also get Kirahae as a war asset still.

RShara wrote... 

Instead, it's cheap and meaningless and no one remembers him at all.

Yet if Thane wasn't remembered or was cheap and meanigless then you wouldn't be here.