1198 réponses à ce sujet

[wildannie]

Arcian wrote...

Bluecansam wrote...

One of the most common arguments we see against saving Thane is that doing so would “trivialize” or “cheapen” the character and his storyline.

Really? I've asked dozens of Thane fans about this and they've all said Thane's sickness was an extremely redundant character trait that did not compute whatsoever into their adoration for him.

Frankly, I would say Thane being sick was what cheapened his character and storyline. His story wasn't about Kepral's syndrome, it was about him living with regret over his wife and son.

No arguments from me with that, the illness was always overkill as far as I was concerned.

[Bluecansam]

Arcian wrote...

Really? I've asked dozens of Thane fans about this and they've all said Thane's sickness was an extremely redundant character trait that did not compute whatsoever into their adoration for him.

Frankly, I would say Thane being sick was what cheapened his character and storyline. His story wasn't about Kepral's syndrome, it was about him living with regret over his wife and son.

I would say that this argument often comes from people who liked Thane, but not so far as to think too much about him. Which is totally fine, but I wouldn't really call them devoted fans of Thane, you know?

I think the illness was an interesting factor about his character, but it certainly wasn't the thing that defined him for me. Not even close. I had hoped the writers would have gone somewhere interesting with his illness, to tell a meaningful story, but it certainly fell flat.

[Bluecansam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

This is mostly opinion here, which is okay.

Why do you have to point out opinion? She even wrote "imo" which means "in my opinion". People can debate using opinions. They (meaning you) can also apparently "debate" using no facts at all.

 

His illness was based around his character which was meaningful whether or not you agree.   Personally nodody doesn't know if there's a "real" cure or his death later lead to a cure.  You do get Salarian support based on Thane saving the councilour and you also get Kirahae as a war asset still.

Whoop-di-do, Kirrahe as a war asset. That's so worth losing my favorite character in a pointless battle with a pointless villain. (/sarcasm) And Thane's character may have been meaningful, but his illness was handled poorly. The way he was written in ME3 was quite ableist, in fact.

Yet if Thane wasn't remembered or was cheap and meanigless then you wouldn't be here.

It's not us we're talking about. It's the game. Thane wasn't remembered by anyone in the game. As I said in my essay (which I'm almost positive you haven't actually bothered to read despite being in this thread for nearly a week), Garrus stands right in front of his name on the memorial wall and says how glad he is that we didn't have to add a new name on the wall. And then Shepard doesn't mourn him. And then nobody else does either. If that isn't a cheap and meaningless way to die, what is it?

[LanceSolous13]

Bluecansam wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Really? I've asked dozens of Thane fans about this and they've all said Thane's sickness was an extremely redundant character trait that did not compute whatsoever into their adoration for him.

Frankly, I would say Thane being sick was what cheapened his character and storyline. His story wasn't about Kepral's syndrome, it was about him living with regret over his wife and son.

I would say that this argument often comes from people who liked Thane, but not so far as to think too much about him. Which is totally fine, but I wouldn't really call them devoted fans of Thane, you know?

I think the illness was an interesting factor about his character, but it certainly wasn't the thing that defined him for me. Not even close. I had hoped the writers would have gone somewhere interesting with his illness, to tell a meaningful story, but it certainly fell flat.

Ditto.

His main character trait for me was that he was introverted. He wasn't saying "F@#& off!" or headbutting things or anything of the sort in ME2. A good ammount of his reply lines are along the lines of "Interesting". He was a patient introverted religious assassin.

And that's a really usual combination for me to like because I'm usually not one for religious aspects to characters but I actually found it totally interesting (Mind you, This might have more with the fact I was learning the lore of a fantastical universe rather than some corupt society) and I came to like him more for this.

In Mass Effect 3, all he discusses is the illness and the only time it feels like he's back in character in when he's on his death bed. Everywhere else, He doesn't feel like Thane.

[LanceSolous13]

Bluecansam wrote...

Yet if Thane wasn't remembered or was cheap and meanigless then you wouldn't be here.

It's not us we're talking about. It's the game. Thane wasn't remembered by anyone in the game. As I said in my essay (which I'm almost positive you haven't actually bothered to read despite being in this thread for nearly a week), Garrus stands right in front of his name on the memorial wall and says how glad he is that we didn't have to add a new name on the wall. And then Shepard doesn't mourn him. And then nobody else does either. If that isn't a cheap and meaningless way to die, what is it?

Exactly, Mordin and Legion, two characters who will probabaly be dead in almost all playthroughs get lines refferencing their deaths. Garrus brings up that Shepard should get some rest after Mordin's death and all. Tali says right after Legion dies that she's even mourning a Geth. Miranda's death is even discuessed by Tali when she gets drunk. Thane's death is only brought up one time and that's for the best goddamn line in the game.

THAT
WAS
FOR
THANE
YOU
SON
OF
A
****!

[Emeraldfern]

Bluecansam wrote...

Arcian wrote...

Really? I've asked dozens of Thane fans about this and they've all said Thane's sickness was an extremely redundant character trait that did not compute whatsoever into their adoration for him.

Frankly, I would say Thane being sick was what cheapened his character and storyline. His story wasn't about Kepral's syndrome, it was about him living with regret over his wife and son.

I would say that this argument often comes from people who liked Thane, but not so far as to think too much about him. Which is totally fine, but I wouldn't really call them devoted fans of Thane, you know?

I think the illness was an interesting factor about his character, but it certainly wasn't the thing that defined him for me. Not even close. I had hoped the writers would have gone somewhere interesting with his illness, to tell a meaningful story, but it certainly fell flat.

I'm in agreement with both of you in a sense, I personally felt that why would they give him an illness unless it was to be explored plot-wise in Mass Effect 3, because it would be a waste to just add it simply for drama.

Oh dear...I know...

Kepral's isn't even his initial reason for redemption, it merely has him less concerned for his own well-being until Shepard awakes him. His initial reason for redemption is because he took lives on his own free-will (The vengeance of Irikah "The only deaths on my consience") and in addition, he disregarded what he was taught when as an assassin i.e to "kill cleanly" as opposed to "Them, I let them linger".

That said, the final romance scene made an impression with me that was unexpected because I related on a part of my personal history. I.e the fact that his illness doesn't dictate that he should live and enjoy life.

I've witnessed a loved go from resigning herself to her physical inhibition, to embracing life, and I can personally attest that what she, and those of us who are close to her, experienced was nothing short of an emotional roller-coaster.

[RShara]

Don't feed the troll

[Blueprotoss]

RShara wrote...

Don't feed the troll

Yet you sholdn't be talking about yourself based on what a "troll" really is.

[LanceSolous13]

Blueprotoss wrote...

RShara wrote...

Don't feed the troll

Yet you sholdn't be talking about yourself based on what a "troll" really is.

Would you please leave already?

I see no issue what so ever with giving the option of his survival. You can keep his death for your playthroughs if you want but I see nothing wrong with giving others the choice.

Why can't we all just support eachother and our issues with characters being sidelined?

[Blueprotoss]

Squeegee83 wrote...

You completely missed the point of what I was talking about. So I won't even bother answering this.

I didn't miss anything based on how you're bringing up smenatics in an opinion of love interests.

Squeegee83 wrote...  

Again you missed the point of what I was saying.

This is ironic based on how you're not interested in supplying contstuctive feedback instead of deconstructive feedback.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Again, you missed the point.

Yet you're trying to say that ME is your game while its Bioware's game.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Of course it does, I already address with you why a LI does matter. I never said nobody likes Mordin or Legion. Again you missed the point.

Again being a LI doesn't matter while the character does and you're acting like nobody likes Legion or Mordin based on a Thane eclipse. Again you're forgetting that ME is Bioware's story not our story.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

I have been stating facts and opinions with you. Again you missed the point. I've moved on months ago, I sold my game. End of story.

 Yet you have only been saying opinions based on how writing is subjective.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Do you notice the difference between us though? I state things fully, you just keep hitting me with one liners that doesn't address everything I said. This is starting to become as a waste of time for me.

The only difference is that I focus on the facts and I can separate fact from opinion.  Ironically you would be the waste of time because you don't want to have a debate since you want to have a mindless arguement.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 23 juillet 2012 - 11:39 .

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Would you please leave already?

Why should I based on how everyone has a right to share their opinion even when I'm being unbiased in a biased topic.

LanceSolous13 wrote... 

I see no issue what so ever with giving the option of his survival. You can keep his death for your playthroughs if you want but I see nothing wrong with giving others the choice.

Yet Thane will die either based on his character that was established in ME2 and its Bioware's decision even when that trumps a small group of fans.

LanceSolous13 wrote... 

Why can't we all just support eachother and our issues with characters being sidelined?

Writing is subjective and everyone has their own opinions.  I don't have a problem at all while a lot of bias is coming from a small group of people not me or some other users here.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 23 juillet 2012 - 11:47 .

[LanceSolous13]

No no no no. How many times must we state this? What was ESTABLISHED in Mass Effect 2 was two seperate outs for Thane.

A cure being developed by the Hanar that Thane brings up in the very first conversation with him on the Normandy.

A lung Transplant to extend Thane's lifespan detailed in the Shadow Broker's files.

Its called a Chekhov's Gun. "If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If its not going to be fired, It shouldn't be hanging there." -Anton Chekhov

There is no point at all to writing out a cure if its never going to be used or discussed or featured in the plot at all.

His status as a LI in ME2 is absolutely pointless if he will simply die in ME3. Bioware always has stated that the LIs were meant to carry on from one game to another but BOTH Jacob and Thane's do not.

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

No no no no. How many times must we state this? What was ESTABLISHED in Mass Effect 2 was two seperate outs for Thane.

A cure being developed by the Hanar that Thane brings up in the very first conversation with him on the Normandy.

A lung Transplant to extend Thane's lifespan detailed in the Shadow Broker's files.

Its called a Chekhov's Gun. "If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If its not going to be fired, It shouldn't be hanging there." -Anton Chekhov

There is no point at all to writing out a cure if its never going to be used or discussed or featured in the plot at all.

His status as a LI in ME2 is absolutely pointless if he will simply die in ME3. Bioware always has stated that the LIs were meant to carry on from one game to another but BOTH Jacob and Thane's do not.

Yet this is all based on semantics based on how the character arcs in ME2 continued with ME3.  Thane didn't want to be cured whether you romanced him or befriended him because he still wanted to die based on his bad past deeds .  

[RShara]

Oh look. Facts.

[LanceSolous13]

As an added bonus, Thane seems to be that way on a much subtler level if you simply completed his Loyalty Mission and didn't romance him (Bro!Shepard). The Romance Path simply outright states it.

[Blueprotoss]

RShara wrote...

Oh look. Facts.

Yet that isn't in the final version in ME3, which it means that it isn't a fact.

LanceSolous13 wrote...

As an added bonus, Thane seems to be that way on a much subtler level if you simply completed his Loyalty Mission and didn't romance him (Bro!Shepard). The Romance Path simply outright states it.

Yet the romance doesn't conflict his belief of getting no cure for his terminal illness and it would still be to late for him based on him being in the late stage. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 24 juillet 2012 - 12:23 .

[LanceSolous13]

Blueprotoss wrote...

RShara wrote...

Oh look. Facts.

Yet that isn't in the final version in ME3, which it means that it isn't a fact.

[

That's a scene from Mass Effect 2.

[coldwetn0se]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

As an added bonus, Thane seems to be that way on a much subtler level if you simply completed his Loyalty Mission and didn't romance him (Bro!Shepard). The Romance Path simply outright states it.

This is exactly how I saw it.  I always start games like this with both a male and female PC, and go back and forth playing them....usually.  For whatever reason, I clicked with the first M!Shep I made (he was kinda dopey, made mistakes, but sort of loveable), and ended up playing him straight through once I got to Omega.  This meant that the first encounter I had with Thane was with a M!Shep (I didn't even know at the time that Thane was romanceable....yes, I was playing that green....hehe.)  I was completely captivated by Thane's character, and RP'ed my Abel Shepard having a brother relationship with Thane.  Even without knowing practically anything about this game, I saw a character who came alive the more and more I interacted with him, and when I successfully completed his LM, I didn't see a dying man, or a man not caring if he died.  Once I went back to my F!Shep (and found out Thane was a LI), boom!  Even more was revealed. 

[LanceSolous13]

Ditto. I played my Bro!Shepard first and Thane really changes after the LM. He has a new life. Small things change in the way he acts. I loved it. I love details like that. Its what makes me proud to write.

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

RShara wrote...

Oh look. Facts.

Yet that isn't in the final version in ME3, which it means that it isn't a fact.

That's a scene from Mass Effect 2.

Yet its supposedly "removed" content from ME2 from a Bioware writer.  Its time to move on with this dead horse.

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Ditto. I played my Bro!Shepard first and Thane really changes after the LM. He has a new life. Small things change in the way he acts. I loved it. I love details like that. Its what makes me proud to write.

Yet his character doesn't change. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 24 juillet 2012 - 12:40 .

[LanceSolous13]

He did change. I'm getting tired of you ignoring anything we say. NO ONE is falling for your nonsense. If you want to keep spouting that, Go make an "I hate Thane" thread. Just waste your breath elsewhere.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

RShara wrote...

Oh look. Facts.

Yet that isn't in the final version in ME3, which it means that it isn't a fact.

That's a scene from Mass Effect 2.

Yet its supposedly "removed" content from ME2 from a Bioware writer.  Its time to move on with this dead horse.

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Ditto. I played my Bro!Shepard first and Thane really changes after the LM. He has a new life. Small things change in the way he acts. I loved it. I love details like that. Its what makes me proud to write.

Yet his character doesn't change. 

you should practice what you preach and move on and leave

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

you should practice what you preach and move on and leave

Yet I'm not complaining to Bioware to change their game based on a personal nippick unlike you.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 24 juillet 2012 - 12:49 .

[LanceSolous13]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

you should practice what you preach and move on and leave

Yet I'm not complaining to Bioware to change their game based on a personal nippick unlike you.

We're not complaining because of a persional nitpick. We're complaining because of CHARACTER DERAILMENT.