1198 réponses à ce sujet

[Olueq]

How about the fact that they came up with the worst death for him possible? He runs at a guy who has a sword, with only a gun. While they are fighting, shepard and everyone else just watches. NICE WRITING, BIOWARE. And why are people using swords anyway? Dont they have omni blades? Or GUNS?

Modifié par Olueq, 01 août 2012 - 11:36 .

[mnomaha]

Actually, if you have a fly cam, you can see them facing the other direction and staring at the wall. Huge bioware fail.

[AresKeith]

Olueq wrote...

How about the fact that they came up with the worst death for him possible? He runs at a guy who has a sword, with only a gun. While they are fighting, shepard and everyone else just watches. NICE WRITING, BIOWARE. And why are people using swords anyway? Dont they have omni blades? Or GUNS?

don't question Bioware's art lol

[RShara]

mnomaha wrote...

Actually, if you have a fly cam, you can see them facing the other direction and staring at the wall. Huge bioware fail.

*sigh*

Were they even *trying* at all?

[mnomaha]

Only with Liara and Team Dextro. Maybe Kaidan. Ashley kinda got screwed, but not by Shep.

ME2 squad, especially Thane (okay Jacob too) got screwed by the long...arm...of neglect or ambivalence...who cares...lol..see what I did there.

[RShara]

If you want to send me a screenshot of them staring at a wall while Thane is fighting, I can add it to my Thane vs KL album.

[mnomaha]

Ohhhh, I saw it somewhere on here...I don't have fly cam on ME3. That would involve playing *shudders* it.

edit:  >.>  maybe I saw it on your TrollLeng slides...I don't remember.

Modifié par mnomaha, 02 août 2012 - 01:28 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Emeraldfern wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Okay, I'll take a stab at this.

Read the shadow broker files for Thane. Dr Chakwas told him he was an excellent candidate for a lung transplant. And in that time and age, they can clone new organs from basic DNA. Meaning Thane could have cured his illness if he wanted. He chose not to!

Why would he do that? Perhaps his religion is against it(Most Drell these days either embrace the Hanar or Asari philosophies, not the old ways, so Thane could be considered as conservative in his beliefs), or perhaps he knew the longer he lived, the more he and his son would be subject to the difficulties of the life he has lead(being an assassin was something he never had a choice in. He was trained when he was too young to know better, and by the time he did, it was the only thing he could do. He made enemies and his wife already paid for it. It could happen again.)

Either way, Thane was a willing participant in his demise. Being mad about his death is pointless because we all knew it was coming and it couldn't be stopped.

Thing is, at the time that Thane said no to the lung-transplant neither his Loyalty mission or romance for that matter, had happened. He didn't know when he refused the transplant that he would reconcile with his son or perhaps find a new Siha. That's why it is a loose end, one cannot even ask him about it in ME3.

The lung transplant only becomes knowledge when you complete LotSB and there's no reference to the timeframe in ME2's story when it happens. LotSB can be anytime after Horizon. Meaning Thane isn't big on the idea at any time, no matter what.

Not to mention he does everything but say that he wants to die.

[AresKeith]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Emeraldfern wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Okay, I'll take a stab at this.

Read the shadow broker files for Thane. Dr Chakwas told him he was an excellent candidate for a lung transplant. And in that time and age, they can clone new organs from basic DNA. Meaning Thane could have cured his illness if he wanted. He chose not to!

Why would he do that? Perhaps his religion is against it(Most Drell these days either embrace the Hanar or Asari philosophies, not the old ways, so Thane could be considered as conservative in his beliefs), or perhaps he knew the longer he lived, the more he and his son would be subject to the difficulties of the life he has lead(being an assassin was something he never had a choice in. He was trained when he was too young to know better, and by the time he did, it was the only thing he could do. He made enemies and his wife already paid for it. It could happen again.)

Either way, Thane was a willing participant in his demise. Being mad about his death is pointless because we all knew it was coming and it couldn't be stopped.

Thing is, at the time that Thane said no to the lung-transplant neither his Loyalty mission or romance for that matter, had happened. He didn't know when he refused the transplant that he would reconcile with his son or perhaps find a new Siha. That's why it is a loose end, one cannot even ask him about it in ME3.

The lung transplant only becomes knowledge when you complete LotSB and there's no reference to the timeframe in ME2's story when it happens. LotSB can be anytime after Horizon. Meaning Thane isn't big on the idea at any time, no matter what.

Not to mention he does everything but say that he wants to die.

even though you can do LotSB before the Suicide mission its still post-game DLC the same with Arrival which means Thane can still have the "cure"

[utaker1988]

mnomaha wrote...

Actually, if you have a fly cam, you can see them facing the other direction and staring at the wall. Huge bioware fail.

You mean this...

[mnomaha]

I just freaking love you utaker! Yes! That one!

[Bluecansam]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Okay, I'll take a stab at this.

Read the shadow broker files for Thane. Dr Chakwas told him he was an excellent candidate for a lung transplant. And in that time and age, they can clone new organs from basic DNA. Meaning Thane could have cured his illness if he wanted. He chose not to!

Why would he do that? Perhaps his religion is against it(Most Drell these days either embrace the Hanar or Asari philosophies, not the old ways, so Thane could be considered as conservative in his beliefs), or perhaps he knew the longer he lived, the more he and his son would be subject to the difficulties of the life he has lead(being an assassin was something he never had a choice in. He was trained when he was too young to know better, and by the time he did, it was the only thing he could do. He made enemies and his wife already paid for it. It could happen again.)

Either way, Thane was a willing participant in his demise. Being mad about his death is pointless because we all knew it was coming and it couldn't be stopped.

Welcome! Great to see a new face!

I would say anything about Thane's religious beliefs - beyond what he tells us - can really only be speculation on our part. It's reasonable to think that he might be a bit on the conservative side given that he is a very religious person, but as for how that conservatism can be interpreted (because different cultures have different ideas about what is "conservative"), we really don't have enough information to say either way.

I also think that even if Thane were still being pursued by his enemies at the time of ME3, he's in a better position to protect his son. He has contacts in C-Sec (Bailey), is friends/lovers w/ the most badass Spectre in the galaxy, and killed the people who murdered his wife. And, at any rate, it seems illogical to allow yourself to die to protect the people you love. Alive, you can take measures to protect your loved ones. Dead, you just have to trust they'll leave your loved ones alone after you're gone. And murderers aren't known for being trustworthy.

While Thane may have originally chosen to pass on the lung transplant, it should have been possible to talk to him about it. If BioWare was going to open up that possibility in LotSB, it should have been addressed if you did the DLC. If BioWare wasn't going to use it, they should have at least mentioned something about it - whether it wasn't an option anymore or whatever. As it is, it's just a dangling loose thread.

[Bluecansam]

utaker1988 wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Actually, if you have a fly cam, you can see them facing the other direction and staring at the wall. Huge bioware fail.

You mean this...

Wow. Just when you think that fight scene couldn't get more ridiculous. <_<

[mnomaha]

Yeah, not sure where the other two are. Maybe they ran off to get some popcorn.

[coldwetn0se]

I knew it was @Utaker who had that shot.....sorry, been busy watching younger, healthier, cooler kids win Olympic gold.....god I love the games.

[Bluecansam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Most of the essay is free of a negative tone while there is a good amount of bias just like most essays.  Your essay doesn't have that much negativity but  some of your comments have some of that missing negativity.

If you say so. I feel I've been pretty polite, all things considered.

When you're talking about the lungs then yes CF is a blood disease.  Ironically Leukemia is a blood disease even when its a Cancer.

Not according to the US National Library of Medicine or the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. You believe what you want to believe, I suppose.

Exspecting a cure for Thane would be a miracle based on him being in the late stages of Kepral's Syndrome, organ rejection, oxyegen levels in his blood, and his lose of blood from Kei Lang's wound.

I don't expect a cure. I expect treatment. There's a huge difference between the two. Last thing anyone heard was that those treatments were available and workable. If the treatments mentioned in ME2, LotSB, or in related media are no longer viable, then it should be addressed in-game why those treatments are no longer on the table. Otherwise, it's pure speculation that they wouldn't have done Thane any good.

Talk to him on the Normandy after you encounter him then he'll start talking about Keptal's Syndrome and his background.  All we know that transplant was successful because those lungs could have rejected his body or anything else could of have happened.  I don't make assumptions and I accept thats told to me whether its directly or indirectly just like in any other video game, novel, comic, movie, or tv show.

When you talk to him on the Normandy, sure he talks about Kepral's, but he says he'll be able to fight and fight well for almost a year. Yet, 6 months later, he's supposedly "in the final stages"? If that's the case, it should have been addressed why that changed.

If you "don't make assumptions and accept what's told to you", then you must also accept that Thane would have been a viable transplant candidate unless BioWare explicitly says otherwise. Since they did not say otherwise, we can only conclude, based on what BioWare itself told us, that Thane was and continued to be a good candidate for transplantation in ME3.

[o Ventus]

utaker1988 wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

Actually, if you have a fly cam, you can see them facing the other direction and staring at the wall. Huge bioware fail.

You mean this...

Thane: Shepard! I could use some assistance over here! 

Shepard: Hmm? Oh, sorry, I was admiring the new model of the Phaeston.

*Kai Leng stabs Thane*

[RShara]

Yeah I need a good caption for that one. My first thought was, "BioFighting: Where no one looks, not even the combatants!"

Also, The Gray Nayr, yes, Thane wanted to die before he was romanced.  He says it very clearly.  He went into the Dantius mission expecting, possibly hoping to die.

HOWEVER, and this is what a LOT of people miss because you ONLY get it with a romanced Thane--He changes his mind and realizes how much he has left to live for.  He goes to Shepard's cabin and confesses how he's afraid of dying--This is confirmed by Thane's writer in ME2, Chris L'Etoile.

Given that you can find out about the transplant option at any time in ME2, shouldn't even a non-romanced Shepard be able to ask him about it (assuming your Shep is one that prefers to try to keep his/her crew alive)?  And wouldn't that be even more true of a romanced Shepard?

And given that you know he no longer wants to die, wouldn't it be more likely that he would accept that transplant option?  Shepard's skills of persuasion are legendary--is it that much of a stretch to imagine that she could convince her lover to live a little longer?

Edit for getting the username wrong

Modifié par RShara, 02 août 2012 - 04:25 .

[AresKeith]

RShara wrote...

Yeah I need a good caption for that one. My first thought was, "BioFighting: Where no one looks, not even the combatants!"

Also, The Gray Nayr, yes, Thane wanted to die before he was romanced.  He says it very clearly.  He went into the Dantius mission expecting, possibly hoping to die.

HOWEVER, and this is what a LOT of people miss because you ONLY get it with a romanced Thane--He changes his mind and realizes how much he has left to live for.  He goes to Shepard's cabin and confesses how he's afraid of dying--This is confirmed by Thane's writer in ME2, Chris L'Etoile.

Given that you can find out about the transplant option at any time in ME2, shouldn't even a non-romanced Shepard be able to ask him about it (assuming your Shep is one that prefers to try to keep his/her crew alive)?  And wouldn't that be even more true of a romanced Shepard?

And given that you know he no longer wants to die, wouldn't it be more likely that he would accept that transplant option?  Shepard's skills of persuasion are legendary--is it that much of a stretch to imagine that she could convince her lover to live a little longer?

Edit for getting the username wrong

I think it would be fair for all Shepards to try and save Thane, and it should be easier for the FemSheps who romanced him

[RShara]

Well yes I was just laying out the usual argument. I try to be practically mathematical about it...

Given A = B
Given B = C

Then logically, A = C. Heck I could write you the first proof I learned in HS Geometry where you make assumptions based on Given information. It's even the same terminology

[coldwetn0se]

You know it's funny....in-game, the conversations with Thane when Romanced are very obvious regarding his desire to live, but the first time I dealt with Thane was as a Bro-Shep (I know.....and I'm a woman...go figure *insert silly face here*). I honestly felt that the two convos that a Bro-Shep can have after succeeding with Thane's LM, were very much in keeping with a Thane willing to consider living....he talks about you being the first true friend he has ever had, and that his renewed relationship with Kolyat is extremely important, and believes it needs more time to resolve their past issues.

I have a couple M!Sheps in both ME and ME2, so I think it is high time for me to fire them up, so I can data collect their dialogues.....I mean, if I saw this on a completely green run with a bro-shep BEFORE ever romancing Thane, then it does cause pause.........

[LanceSolous13]

Yeah, My first several times talking with Thane were on a Bro!Shepard and I replayed ME2 3 times before moving to ME3 so I could have a clear idea on what to expect and to take mental notes. I was under the full impression anyways that Thane wanted to live.

My impression wasn't confirmed till I watched his romance.

[coldwetn0se]

Hmmm....k, now I feel the need to do some investigating....I've been sick the past week, and I've got cabin fever, so bring on the Shep Saves........*coldi runs off to plug da xbox in, and see if she knows wut da hell she be jabbering about....!*

[Emeraldfern]

The Grey Nayr wrote...


The lung transplant only becomes knowledge when you complete LotSB and there's no reference to the timeframe in ME2's story when it happens. LotSB can be anytime after Horizon. Meaning Thane isn't big on the idea at any time, no matter what.

Not to mention he does everything but say that he wants to die.

Except for one important detail, the medical journal is indeed gained after completing LoTSB (which in turn is completed earliest after Horizon, note, Thane is recruited after Horizon as well) however his letter, the one you only get if he is romanced, is only gained after the suicide mission. Also if Thane has not been recruited yet, naturally the medical journal doesn't show up. Once he is recruited it shows up.

This does place the medical journal before the suicide mission.
And as has been stated in this very thread more than once, when romanced he isn't exactly at peace with dying. Quite the opposite actually. Both the scene prior to the suicide mission and the letter is evidence of this.

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 02 août 2012 - 05:24 .

[RShara]

Yep. He actually DOES say he wants to die, btw. When you first recruit him, before anything else happens.

No one is disputing that. It's what happens AFTER you bro/romance him that he changes.

I know he gives the impression of wanting to live with a bro-Shep too, but it's more obvious, more clear, and documented that he wants to live with a romanced-Shep, which is why I tend to use that during my main arguments.