1198 réponses à ce sujet

[RShara]

Edit: Changed it a little

Modifié par RShara, 02 août 2012 - 06:14 .

[Roxy]

*snickers*

Epic Fail Bioware!

[AresKeith]

RShara wrote...



Edit: Changed it a little

Poor Thane, why would Bioware make somebody run up at someone who has a sword, when he could use biotics

[RShara]

Changed the link and added another line

[coldwetn0se]

@RShara - Bwahahahah! .....and the other two companions are busy with the Hot Dog guy...."You have Dextro friendly mustard, right??"

Ok, so I found an old save for my very first ever Shep in ME2 (a M!Shep by the name of Abel).....So, I was able to pull two convos out of him (it's getting late and I am beat...). First was the "Compact" conversation; went the Paragon route, and he does state that "he WAS asleep for so long", implying already that he is NO LONGER asleep....

Next was the Drell memory dialogue; again the Paragon route.....at the end of the conversation Shep has the opportunity of talking to Thane about being alone. He suggests that Thane is lonely, and Thane answers with, "you are my first friend in 10 years.." he also smiles *squish*.

Whether this truly indicates that he doesn't wish to die is merely speculation, but it is the beginning of something....something more important to Thane than rushing to his demise. Couple that with the renewed contact of his son (and remember...the little bit we see with Kolyat has them on the road to something....hardly a mended relationship. Something I believe Thane would now want considering the situation. Again, my intrepetation, but I would argue a truly feasible one.), and he could logically be viewed as a man considering his future (if one can be had.....)

I will eventually make up a list of other dialogue points, but must go to sleep......eyes heavy, hands like bricks, fingers like sausages......mmmzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...................................

[Han Shot First]

One of the first things Thane says to Shepard is, "I'm dying."

I have a hard time pitying Thanemancers who think Bioware wronged them by killing Thane. Don't want your space boyfriend to die? Don't romance the one who tells you he is dying as an introduction.

[LanceSolous13]

Han Shot First wrote...

One of the first things Thane says to Shepard is, "I'm dying."

I have a hard time pitying Thanemancers who think Bioware wronged them by killing Thane. Don't want your space boyfriend to die? Don't romance the one who tells you he is dying as an introduction.

...You didn't see his character development did you? Its what comes after that makes our arguement valid... I would reccomend my post on Page 20.

Modifié par LanceSolous13, 02 août 2012 - 07:38 .

[o Ventus]

Han Shot First wrote...

One of the first things Thane says to Shepard is, "I'm dying."

I have a hard time pitying Thanemancers who think Bioware wronged them by killing Thane. Don't want your space boyfriend to die? Don't romance the one who tells you he is dying as an introduction.

You haven't read any of the posts in this thread, have you?

I also take it you haven't payed much attention during ME2.

[Twilight_Princess]

Han Shot First wrote...

One of the first things Thane says to Shepard is, "I'm dying."

I have a hard time pitying Thanemancers who think Bioware wronged them by killing Thane. Don't want your space boyfriend to die? Don't romance the one who tells you he is dying as an introduction.

I suggest reading the first page...and from your post alone...I got 2 squares in a row on my bingo card! I just need a "I thought his death was fitting" and a "I haven't romanced thane but " so excited!

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 02 août 2012 - 08:05 .

[Han Shot First]

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

And threads like this one make me thankful that Mass Effect wasn't written by a fan committee. Thane's terminal illness and all of the personal issues surrounding that were cental to Thane's character. Granting him a miracle cure would have rendered his entire plotline in Mass Effect 2 pointless.

[LanceSolous13]

Han Shot First wrote...

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

And threads like this one make me thankful that Mass Effect wasn't written by a fan committee. Thane's terminal illness and all of the personal issues surrounding that were cental to Thane's character. Granting him a miracle cure would have rendered his entire plotline in Mass Effect 2 pointless.

There wasn't a miracle cure though. As I detailed in my post on Page 20, there were three cures already there for him. He brings up one right after he says he's dying.

It doesn't have to be some miracle cure anyways. Nothing wrong with a mission arc to Kahje and a legitimate struggle to get the cure.

[Emeraldfern]

Han Shot First wrote...

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

And threads like this one make me thankful that Mass Effect wasn't written by a fan committee. Thane's terminal illness and all of the personal issues surrounding that were cental to Thane's character. Granting him a miracle cure would have rendered his entire plotline in Mass Effect 2 pointless.

As do I.
And ignoring previous character development in a sequel is bad writing. So is leaving loose ends.
And there were plenty of the above regarding Thane in ME3. To find out what Thane's devolpment was and what loose ends we are talking about, read the OP.

[Twilight_Princess]

Han Shot First wrote...

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

So cure possibilities are introduced into the universe and Thane undergoes a significant character change from being accepting of death to fearing it and....that shouldn't have had a result? Not only no result but for past development and information to be swept under the carpet and never mentioned again? Forgetting important details about a character is bad story telling. Actually when Patrick weekes comes right  out and admits Thane's writers dropped the ball with the fight scene and death (due to forgetfulness) it can't have been done as well as you think.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 02 août 2012 - 08:42 .

[o Ventus]

Han Shot First wrote...

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

And threads like this one make me thankful that Mass Effect wasn't written by a fan committee. Thane's terminal illness and all of the personal issues surrounding that were cental to Thane's character. Granting him a miracle cure would have rendered his entire plotline in Mass Effect 2 pointless.

Again, you haven't actually read any of the posts in this thread, have you? Nor have you actually paid much attention to the information presented to you in ME2?

[Han Shot First]

o Ventus wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

And threads like this one make me thankful that Mass Effect wasn't written by a fan committee. Thane's terminal illness and all of the personal issues surrounding that were cental to Thane's character. Granting him a miracle cure would have rendered his entire plotline in Mass Effect 2 pointless.

Again, you haven't actually read any of the posts in this thread, have you? Nor have you actually paid much attention to the information presented to you in ME2?

I've skimmed through it.

I'm not going to read 30 pages rehashing the same arguments that have been brought up time and time again, since the release of Mass Effect 2.

But I'll play along for a bit.

First one is brought up in the very first conversation with Thane...
Shepard: "Can't the Hanar do something about that?"

Thane: "The Hanar have funded a Genetic Engineering Program. They should be able to adapt us. The project has only been running for a few years. I do not believe my body will draw breath by the time it bears fruit."

Simply researching a cure isn't the same as curing it. There are research projects going out right now trying to cure cancer. That doesn't necessarily mean we'll all wake up tommorow with the announcement that cancer has been cured.

At any rate Thane flat out tells Shepard that this program is unlikely to find a cure before he succumbs to the disease. Anyone who came away from that scene thinking Thane was going to end up being cured was reading way too much into that dialogue. Thane is reiterating that his prognosis is grim, rather than mentioning the program as a reason to hope.

The Second Cure is discussed in the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC for Mass Effect 2...

This one was a little vague and could be read either way, which I think was deliberate on Bioware's part. They were hedging their bets a bit so that they could have room to go either way with him in Mass Effect 3. Either you could read it as Thane's illness remaining incurable or Thane's illness being treatable.

If just going by previously established canon the first is far more likely however, as we are told in vanilla ME2 that there is no known cure for Kepral's Syndrome. 

Personally, I'm glad that Bioware did not cave into pressure from the Thancemancers who wanted him cured.


The third option apparently has something to do with medi-gel. This sounds like a fan theory/speculation as I don't remember anything in game being mentioned about medi-gel curing Kepral's Syndrome.


But discussion of whether or not the writers could have written in a cure for Thane is ultimately pointless. The real question is not whether the writers could have cured Thane, but should they. And the answer to that in my opinion, is no.

Thane's entire character arc was defined by his impending death, his coming to terms with it and making amends before his passing, and if romanced, finding some life when he least expected it. And by life I don't mean his physical survival, but rather the quality of the time has has left.

All of the drama and character development from that plotline would be wiped away with a cure. It be the equivalent of Shepard waking up in Mass Effect 3 to discover that Ashley or Kaidan's death on Virmire was just a dream.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 août 2012 - 09:32 .

[mnomaha]

...what I don't understand is why it actually matters so much to those of you who *do not* want him to live. Why does what I want in my game really matter to anyone else? Why do you care if I have an option that you do not want to take?

I really, truly do not understand this.

[Han Shot First]

mnomaha wrote...

...what I don't understand is why it actually matters so much to those of you who *do not* want him to live. Why does what I want in my game really matter to anyone else? Why do you care if I have an option that you do not want to take?

I really, truly do not understand this.

Why does it anger you that someone  disagrees?

This forum (or any forum for that matter) would be boring if every thread was someone posting their option and then 30 pages of people agreeing with the OP.

But to answer your question, it doesn't matter. Thane is dead and that won't be changing.

I just disagree with those who wanted him cured, as I think that would been bad storytelling. Thankfully I no longer need to worry about Bioware making a bad story decision out of  misguided fanservice. Or at least I don't regarding Thane.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 août 2012 - 09:50 .

[Emeraldfern]

Han Shot First wrote...

I've skimmed through it.

I'm not going to read 30 pages rehashing the same arguments that have been brought up time and time again, since the release of Mass Effect 2.


The third option apparently has something to do with medi-gel. This sounds like a fan theory/speculation as I don't remember anything in game being mentioned about medi-gel curing Kepral's Syndrome.

For the record, the Eupulmos device (aka medi-gel for the lungs) is part of the lore since it is mentioned on the CDN (Cerberus News):

07/13/2010 - Eupulmos Device Helping Victims of Respiratory Diseases

"A new technology is helping victims of the Vallum Blast breathe easier -- literally. Researchers at U. Thierax are attacking the myriad of respiratory diseases caused by inhaling dust around the blast site. Dubbed "medi-gel for the lungs," the Eupulmos Device analyzes a patient's tissue or medicard record before adjusting its virally-delivered superdrugs to match the patient's genetic predispositions. After that, the mister sprays the aerosol into the patient's nasal passages and the drug is absorbed into the lungs. The mister can also deliver microsurgery machines to make non-invasive repairs to tissue and has a color-coded nozzle at each end with separate agent reservoirs for dextro and levo patients. Said one ER staffer, "The effect is incredible. In a year, the whole galaxy will be using these things.""

Han Shot First wrote...
All of the drama and character development from that plotline would be wiped away with a cure. It be the equivalent of Shepard waking up in Mass Effect 3 to discover that Ashley or Kaidan's death on Virmire was just a dream.

I'll strongly disagree with this. You don't forget an experience like that if you survive. 
The above is even more true in Thane's case considering his eidic memory.
What he went through would neither be forgotten or cease being a part of him.

And survival doesn't automatically mean everything is sunshine and bunnies afterwards for the survivor and those close of kin. Like I stated above something like that doesn't just disappear at the drop of a hat.
Finding one's way back to life can be a very emotional and difficult journey.

But on the subject of coherence inbetween Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, is it not odd that the player can in no shape or form, even address treatments with Thane?

Or for that matter is it not odd that the very nature of his disease suddenly changed from something akin to CF, into something more akin to Sickle Cell disease, which are very different from one another?

[Edit] Quote fail

Modifié par Emeraldfern, 02 août 2012 - 10:05 .

[Bluecansam]

Han Shot First wrote...

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

And threads like this one make me thankful that Mass Effect wasn't written by a fan committee. Thane's terminal illness and all of the personal issues surrounding that were cental to Thane's character. Granting him a miracle cure would have rendered his entire plotline in Mass Effect 2 pointless.

Hi. Wordy Former English Major here. You may remember me from such works as The OP, or That Essay That's The Point of the Thread. I know bad storytelling when I see it too. I don't expect you to read 30 pages of posts. I do, however expect you to read the OP if you're going to be a serious participant of this discussion. I know you haven't read it because I address the potential storytelling possibilities for Thane in it. I say why his story, as it stands, is bad storytelling and why Thane's survival does not have to be the MacGuffin/fetch quest/contrived plot most people assume it must be. I welcome your disagreement, but I can't reasonably debate with you if you haven't read that yet. So, please take a moment, read my essay, then come back with whatever arguments you have in light of what you've read.

(Edited for typo. Stupid phone keyboard.)

Modifié par Bluecansam, 02 août 2012 - 12:46 .

[LanceSolous13]

Han Shot First wrote...

mnomaha wrote...

...what I don't understand is why it actually matters so much to those of you who *do not* want him to live. Why does what I want in my game really matter to anyone else? Why do you care if I have an option that you do not want to take?

I really, truly do not understand this.

Why does it anger you that someone  disagrees?

This forum (or any forum for that matter) would be boring if every thread was someone posting their option and then 30 pages of people agreeing with the OP.

But to answer your question, it doesn't matter. Thane is dead and that won't be changing.

I just disagree with those who wanted him cured, as I think that would been bad storytelling. Thankfully I no longer need to worry about Bioware making a bad story decision out of  misguided fanservice. Or at least I don't regarding Thane.

Then please explain to me why he is an LI in ME2.

Please explain to me why they go through such lengths in said LI status to state that Thane does not want to die and that he does in fact want to survive and, yet, his character development in ME2 has been eraced.

Also, Please explain to me how this is fanservice? Fanservice is Jacob taking of his shirt for 5 seconds of screen time. I don't see how Thane surviving is no different than Miranda surviving.

Also, If you want him dead, kill him in your playthoughs. I do stuff like that on a smaller scale while I like the lines of dialogue even if the choice is Renegade or ete. I see no problem with the Option of curing him just as its optional to have Miranda survive.

[Blueprotoss]

Emeraldfern wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Okay, I'll take a stab at this.

Read the shadow broker files for Thane. Dr Chakwas told him he was an excellent candidate for a lung transplant. And in that time and age, they can clone new organs from basic DNA. Meaning Thane could have cured his illness if he wanted. He chose not to!

Why would he do that? Perhaps his religion is against it(Most Drell these days either embrace the Hanar or Asari philosophies, not the old ways, so Thane could be considered as conservative in his beliefs), or perhaps he knew the longer he lived, the more he and his son would be subject to the difficulties of the life he has lead(being an assassin was something he never had a choice in. He was trained when he was too young to know better, and by the time he did, it was the only thing he could do. He made enemies and his wife already paid for it. It could happen again.)

Either way, Thane was a willing participant in his demise. Being mad about his death is pointless because we all knew it was coming and it couldn't be stopped.

Thing is, at the time that Thane said no to the lung-transplant neither his Loyalty mission or romance for that matter, had happened. He didn't know when he refused the transplant that he would reconcile with his son or perhaps find a new Siha. That's why it is a loose end, one cannot even ask him about it in ME3.

Its okay to have an opinion while the writers of Bioware are allowed to do what they what whether a fan likes or hates something.

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I've just reviewed the dialogue and Thane never states he is in the final stages of Kepral's Syndrome; just that he has been diagnosed with it. And that's the line that contradicts what was stated earlier of Thane being good for another 8-12 months. I fail to see the connection between Thane's stage in Kepral's Syndrome and how many wounds he's recieved while working under Shepard.

Yet Thane states that he's dieing and the reason why he's killing wrong doers is based on his coming death.  Either way you assume that he isn't in the late stages of Kepral's Syndrome especially when he should have died in ME2 based on his illness.

LanceSolous13 wrote... 

Its never stated what she specalises in but she is stated to have a history in alien biological studies. It would be absolutely absurd to think she hadn't studied alien biology; what with Wrex, Garrus, Liara, Tali, Mordin, Samara, Thane, Grunt, and Javik all on board the Normandy at one time or another during the course of the series. If she wasn't familear with alien biology in Mass Effect 1, she certainly would be by Mass Effect 2; espicially considering Cerberus hired her with the intention of putting multiple species under her care.

Anyone could study anything xenobiology while that knowledge doesn't make that person into a xenobiologist.  Even if she was a xenobiologist while you assume that she specializes in Drell.

LanceSolous13 wrote...  

Also, I didn't compair Garrus to Thane in the slightest. I was saying that Garrus discusses in Mass Effect 1 that organs can be regrown in other people's bodies, as evidenced with Dr. Saleon in Garrus' ME1 'Loyalty Mission'.

You compared Garrus and Thane as both of them suffered injuries even when both of them were healed other then minor problems or Thane's Kepral Syndrome.  Yet his subjects weren't healthy and were slowly dieing based on the increase of organs that causes severe strain on the body, which is one of the reasons why its a taboo or illegal process.

[Blueprotoss]

Emeraldfern wrote...

Maybe my english is rusty, but is cloning regarded as a synthetic lung generation?
The lung itself is organic irregardless if it was cloned or not.
The way I read it was that synthetic lungs were not possible i.e unorganic organ akin to a more evolved version of an Artificial heart.

Then again my reading comprehension in english could have played a prank on me in that case.

Sadly a cloned organ could still be rejected by your body.  I think the only choice would be an artifical lung while we don't know if that would work or not even if Thane had enough oxygen in his blood to survive the surgery.

[Bluecansam]

You make it sound like organ rejection happens with every transplant. Even today, 180 years before the ME universe, most transplants are successful, with the patient making a full recovery and going on to live a normal life. Doctors TODAY are very careful to match donors with compatible transplant recipients, and furthermore give immunosuppressants to ease the transition.

[Blueprotoss]

[quote]Bluecansam wrote...

Most of the essay is free of a negative tone while there is a good amount of bias just like most essays.  Your essay doesn't have that much negativity but  some of your comments have some of that missing negativity.[/quote]
If you say so. I feel I've been pretty polite, all things considered.[/quote]You have been polite while everyone has some negitivity that leaks through the cracks.

[quote]Bluecansam wrote... 

Not according to the US National Library of Medicine or the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. You believe what you want to believe, I suppose.[/quote]I have no problem on agreeing to disagree even when doctors debate about topics like this on a daily basis.

[quote]Bluecansam wrote...  

I don't expect a cure. I expect treatment. There's a huge difference between the two. Last thing anyone heard was that those treatments were available and workable. If the treatments mentioned in ME2, LotSB, or in related media are no longer viable, then it should be addressed in-game why those treatments are no longer on the table. Otherwise, it's pure speculation that they wouldn't have done Thane any good.[/quote]Treatment at that point would have to be a cure and if you recieve an organ transplant then it could shorten your life instead of prolonging it.  So far all we know about is a lung transplant was done in a drell through LotSB while we don't know if the paitent later on died or lived and we also don't know if the lung was rejected or not.

[quote]Bluecansam wrote...   

When you talk to him on the Normandy, sure he talks about Kepral's, but he says he'll be able to fight and fight well for almost a year. Yet, 6 months later, he's supposedly "in the final stages"? If that's the case, it should have been addressed why that changed.[/quote]It could have been addressed but Bioware had enough variable hell without the Suicide Mission in ME2 and to be fair we barely know anything on drell other then what Thane tells us.

[quote]Bluecansam wrote...   

If you "don't make assumptions and accept what's told to you", then you must also accept that Thane would have been a viable transplant candidate unless BioWare explicitly says otherwise. Since they did not say otherwise, we can only conclude, based on what BioWare itself told us, that Thane was and continued to be a good candidate for transplantation in ME3.[/quote]Thane being viable for a transplant is an assumption based on how healthy people are constantly turned down for transplants in real life and if you get on the list then you have to follow a strict diet to stay as a transplant recipient.  At this point we do have to accept what Bioware says because they penned the franchise and they have the knowledge that crafted this franchise.