1198 réponses à ce sujet

[LanceSolous13]

RShara wrote...

Um Lance are you arguing with yourself...?

QUOTE FAIL!

XD

*laughing and sobing and how much of a failure that is...

[coldwetn0se]

*Gives Lance a thump on the back, and offers a Cherry Coke.* I actually read it correctly even without the quote boxes....no worries, but it was kinda giggling provoking.

[AresKeith]

where's my coke? lol

[coldwetn0se]

*Coldi pulls out another Cherry Coke for AresKeith, from her Limited Edition Tardis Fanny-Pack...(now in Camo!)*

[Bluecansam]

coldwetn0se wrote...

Continued support for a well thought out essay from @bluecansam.  If you are ever interested (thought I should ask since this is your thread), I would be more than happy to post my Story DLC outline highlighting the ME2 cast (though it could be played even by those that let most of them die...fun for the whole family...HA!) that does have an option to keep Thane alive, and without altering anything in the base game.   

Thanks! And sure, go for it! Sounds interesting!

[Bluecansam]

coldwetn0se wrote...

*Coldi pulls out another Cherry Coke for AresKeith, from her Limited Edition Tardis Fanny-Pack...(now in Camo!)*

Duuuuude. I want a Tardis fanny pack! /threadjack

...Can you threadjack your own thread? *ponder*

[AresKeith]

Bluecansam wrote...

coldwetn0se wrote...

*Coldi pulls out another Cherry Coke for AresKeith, from her Limited Edition Tardis Fanny-Pack...(now in Camo!)*

Duuuuude. I want a Tardis fanny pack! /threadjack

...Can you threadjack your own thread? *ponder*

well its yours sooo lol

[Roxy]

Cherry coke + Crown Royal Whiskey= A nice drink after cleaning house half the day!

Anybody wants some? lol!

[Roxy]

*Sees that everybody has left the party*
*scoffs* Well fine I'll just keep this Whiskey and cherry coke all to myself! *hiccup*

[AresKeith]

sry was explaining to someone why ME3 doesn't feel like an RPG lol

[Roxy]

lol! It's okay!

[Han Shot First]

Bluecansam wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

No, I just know bad storytelling when I see it.

And threads like this one make me thankful that Mass Effect wasn't written by a fan committee. Thane's terminal illness and all of the personal issues surrounding that were cental to Thane's character. Granting him a miracle cure would have rendered his entire plotline in Mass Effect 2 pointless.

Hi. Wordy Former English Major here. You may remember me from such works as The OP, or That Essay That's The Point of the Thread. I know bad storytelling when I see it too. I don't expect you to read 30 pages of posts. I do, however expect you to read the OP if you're going to be a serious participant of this discussion. I know you haven't read it because I address the potential storytelling possibilities for Thane in it. I say why his story, as it stands, is bad storytelling and why Thane's survival does not have to be the MacGuffin/fetch quest/contrived plot most people assume it must be. I welcome your disagreement, but I can't reasonably debate with you if you haven't read that yet. So, please take a moment, read my essay, then come back with whatever arguments you have in light of what you've read.

(Edited for typo. Stupid phone keyboard.)

I read the first post. Didn't see much new.

Except for references to ME3 content it contains the same arguments for Thane being cured that were made after ME2 was first released.

Thane's terminal illness was central to his character in Mass Effect 2. Everything he does in that game is one way or another preparing for that death. He is seeking atonement and to make amends before he dies. To then have that character be cured, would render the entire terminal illness plotline pointless.

Simply going in a direction that is unexpected does not mean a writer has pulled off a masterful twist. Curing Thane would have just been a cop out and an example of bad storytelling. It would be like watching (or reading) The Road only to have the Man be miraculously cured in the end, and living happily ever after with his son.

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

mnomaha wrote...
...what I don't understand is why it actually matters so much to those of you who *do not* want him to live. Why does what I want in my game really matter to anyone else? Why do you care if I have an option that you do not want to take?
I really, truly do not understand this.

Why does it anger you that someone  disagrees?
This forum (or any forum for that matter) would be boring if every thread was someone posting their option and then 30 pages of people agreeing with the OP.
But to answer your question, it doesn't matter. Thane is dead and that won't be changing.
I just disagree with those who wanted him cured, as I think that would been bad storytelling. Thankfully I no longer need to worry about Bioware making a bad story decision out of  misguided fanservice. Or at least I don't regarding Thane.

Then please explain to me why he is an LI in ME2.
Please explain to me why they go through such lengths in said LI status to state that Thane does not want to die and that he does in fact want to survive and, yet, his character development in ME2 has been eraced.

Wanting to live and being able to aren't quite the same thing.

How many people die every day from terminal illnesses, who very much wanted to keep on living?

Also, Please explain to me how this is fanservice? Fanservice is Jacob taking of his shirt for 5 seconds of screen time. I don't see how Thane surviving is no different than Miranda surviving.
Also, If you want him dead, kill him in your playthoughs. I do stuff like that on a smaller scale while I like the lines of dialogue even if the choice is Renegade or ete. I see no problem with the Option of curing him just as its optional to have Miranda survive.

It would have been fanservice because it isn't what Bioware had planned for the character.

They created a terminally ill character, to explore with that character all the personal issues that go along with that. To then cure him because fans who had romanced him with their Shepard demanded it, would be the very definition of fanservice.

To be clear I'm not implying that all fanservice is bad. But I do think curing Thane would have been an example of bad fanservice, as it would have rendered his ME2 plotline pointless and made the character less interesting.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 04 août 2012 - 07:36 .

[RShara]

Given that you can find out about the transplant option at any time in ME2, shouldn't even a non-romanced Shepard be able to ask him about it (assuming your Shep is one that prefers to try to keep his/her crew alive)? And wouldn't that be even more true of a romanced Shepard?

And given that you know he no longer wants to die, wouldn't it be more likely that he would accept that transplant option? Shepard's skills of persuasion are legendary--is it that much of a stretch to imagine that she could convince her lover to live a little longer?

And the thing is, just because you find out that you're not dying after doing all of these things, doesn't make the experience any less poignant or less of a life experience.

You don't unlearn or reverse yourself just because your impending death isn't as impending as you thought. The person he becomes after dealing with so many major things is still going to be the person that he is, even if he's not about to die.

[Han Shot First]

The transplant wouldn't save Thane's life, it would only prolong it.

Thane refusing it is akin to a terminally ill cancer patient refusing chemo. I think it is his choice to make and his alone, regardless of his relationship with Shepard.

[RShara]

But it would potentially prolong it long enough for the hanar's cure to be ready. That's all we're asking for--an OPTION, and potential.

Thane might still have good reasons for refusing a transplant, but you don't have any option to talk to him about it.

And seriously.....if your loved one was dying and suicidal, then found reason to live, wouldn't it be likely that s/he would be willing to reconsider?

[Han Shot First]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I don't think an option to cure Thane should ever have been on the table, and I'm glad Bioware didn't go that route in ME3.

If Thane had not died in that fight with Kai Leng I think his epilogue should have been one with Shepard (if romanced) at his bedside, during his last moments. Having Thane be cured from Kepral's Syndrome to live happily ever after, would have rendered his story in ME2 pointless.

In Lair of the Shadow Broker if Liara is romanced, she can have an exchange with Shepard where she'll say, "So tell me what you want. If this all ends tommorow, what happens to us?"

Shepard then has a choice between two replies, one of which is a joke about a lot of little blue children. I'm sure you've all seen that either on youtube or referenced on the BSN countless times. The other digalogue option in that scene, though chosen fair less often, has Shepard say, "You've seen the data, Liara. Even if we somehow pull this off, I don't think either of us gets to see the victory parade."

If that second dialogue option was chosen, Liara will then get frustrated and ask, "Then what's the damn point? Of this? Of us?"

One of Shepard's replies is tell her that they aren't dead yet, and they should make the most of the time they have left together.

I prefer that less chosen path over the blue babies joke, and think that last line by Shepard could apply just as well to a playthrough where Shepard is romancing Thane. That I think is the point a relationship with Thane. Not some miracle cure that neither is likely to see, but to make the most of the time they have left together.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 04 août 2012 - 08:10 .

[RShara]

That's fine, and I have no problems with you feeling that way. What we're asking for is an option to take another path. No one would be forced into a cure (which shouldn't be a miracle cure, it should come naturally from the events in the story), but they can choose what to do.

That's not really too much to ask for, is it?

[Bluecansam]

Han Shot First wrote...

I read the first post. Didn't see much new.

Except for references to ME3 content it contains the same arguments for Thane being cured that were made after ME2 was first released.

Thane's terminal illness was central to his character in Mass Effect 2. Everything he does in that game is one way or another preparing for that death. He is seeking atonement and to make amends before he dies. To then have that character be cured, would render the entire terminal illness plotline pointless.

Thing is, all of the squadmates were preparing for impending death. They are all going into the Suicide Mission expecting to die. You know, hence, the name. The only difference with Thane is that he was already sick. But each of the Loyalty Missions are not only meant to get chummy with the squaddies. The purpose in-story is to take care of those last orders of business before they die. Get revenge on that guy who betrayed you, make sure your sister is safe, kill your serial killer daughter, finally find out what happened to your father. All of the characters' stories are informed and built upon the expectation that they will die. Yet, if they survive, nobody says their stories were rendered meaningless. Nobody says that their struggles were pointless. Why is it different for Thane and Thane only? Yes, he was terminally ill, but before the Suicide Mission, his expectation of death was no different than anyone else's. So why is survival now a "cop out" when it wasn't then? If you say it's because he has a terminal disease, how is a terminal disease different from another Suicide Mission?

Simply going in a direction that is unexpected does not mean a writer has pulled off a masterful twist. Curing Thane would have just been a cop out and an example of bad storytelling. It would be like watching (or reading) The Road only to have the Man be miraculously cured in the end, and living happily ever after with his son.

You misunderstand that section of my essay. When I say that a writer must do something unexpected, I am not talking about a plot twist. I'm saying that it's the writer's job to go somewhere interesting with the story, to take the readers/audience somewhere they weren't necessarily expecting, but makes complete sense along the way. Their job is to say something about the character that isn't trite or contrived through the things that happen to them. There are two choices in a scenario where you have a terminally ill character: death or survival. In either case, in order for it to be considered good writing, you MUST show how the journey to get to that conclusion 1) is meaningful, 2) is necessary. If Thane dies, it must make perfect sense why HE is the one who dies and why. Moreover, it must be proven to be necessary for the overarching plot.  If Thane lives, it must likewise make perfect sense why he lives and why. Also likewise, it must be proven as necessary for the overarching plot.

This is why Mordin and Legion's deaths are so poignant. Not because they died, but because their deaths were necessary. For the krogan to have a future, Mordin MUST die, and he's the only one who can do the thing that must be done for the genophage to be cured. For the geth to have sentience, Legion MUST die, as he is the only geth who is sentient. We, as the players, are taken on a journey where the only conceivable conclusion is Mordin and Legion's deaths.

How is Thane's death necessary? He is easily and - moreover - successfully replaced by Kirrahe if he is already dead or you haven't talked to him. Saving the councilor doesn't even affect the plot in any significant fashion. You only gain war assets. If you argue that he dies from his disease, and not from the fight with Kai Leng, then how is that necessary? Shepard gains no insight from his death, is not shown to be any more motivated to fight the Reapers or Cerberus because of it. No, he dies merely because he is dying. It has no bearing on the story, no impact on the characters, no meaning for others.

As for his survival, that - too - must be made necessary for the plot in order for it to be good writing. And it is more than possible to write a scenario in which Thane lives that adds to and informs the rest of the story. I list several such storytelling possibilities in my essay. These possibilities would develop the character, explore concepts of what it means to live, and further the relationships established in ME2. How is that cheap? How is that fan service? If he lives just for the sake of living, that is no more fan service than his dying for the sake of dying. You seem to misunderstand the part where I say saving Thane does not have to equal a miracle cure... in that I'm not looking for a miracle cure. Is it so unreasonable to expect Thane to receive treatment when BioWare itself put those treatments into play? We KNOW those aren't cures. Many of us aren't asking for one. But it is, indeed, a cop out to introduce those possible treatments and not even mention them. If Thane doesn't want to seek treatment, show us WHY. If he doesn't want treatment, show us how that could possibly make sense in light of his romance story arc. I'm not asking for fan service.  What I'm asking for is for him to have a storyline that does justice to his character. And if BioWare are as good of writers as they think they are, that should include an option for Thane to prolong his life, 1) because they themselves put those elements in there, and 2) because a story in which he lives can be just as poignant as one in which he dies, if ther writer is willing to put in the effort.

Modifié par Bluecansam, 04 août 2012 - 01:45 .

[wildannie]

Han Shot First wrote...

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree there. I don't think an option to cure Thane should ever have been on the table, and I'm glad Bioware didn't go that route in ME3.

If Thane had not died in that fight with Kai Leng I think his epilogue should have been one with Shepard (if romanced) at his bedside, during his last moments. Having Thane be cured from Kepral's Syndrome to live happily ever after, would have rendered his story in ME2 pointless.

In Lair of the Shadow Broker if Liara is romanced, she can have an exchange with Shepard where she'll say, "So tell me what you want. If this all ends tommorow, what happens to us?"

Shepard then has a choice between two replies, one of which is a joke about a lot of little blue children. I'm sure you've all seen that either on youtube or referenced on the BSN countless times. The other digalogue option in that scene, though chosen fair less often, has Shepard say, "You've seen the data, Liara. Even if we somehow pull this off, I don't think either of us gets to see the victory parade."

If that second dialogue option was chosen, Liara will then get frustrated and ask, "Then what's the damn point? Of this? Of us?"

One of Shepard's replies is tell her that they aren't dead yet, and they should make the most of the time they have left together.

I prefer that less chosen path over the blue babies joke, and think that last line by Shepard could apply just as well to a playthrough where Shepard is romancing Thane. That I think is the point a relationship with Thane. Not some miracle cure that neither is likely to see, but to make the most of the time they have left together.

yeah? well they didn't get to make the most of the time they had left, Shep was in jail and when they reunite he's changed, become distant, and has nothing meaningful to say.  His life could have been prolonged, it would have made no difference to you so why would you even care?

[coldwetn0se]

@Bluecansam - of course you can have a Tardis fanny-pack!  I brought an extra one for the Thread Host!
So I will post my DLC Outline, that was originally posted in @giftfish's Romance DLC Thread.  One thing I wish to reiterate (since I have voiced in on here before), finding something that extends/saves Thane's life was always bigger than just Thane.  Kepral's is the number one health concern and premature killer of the Drell race living on Kahjee.  Thane was our connection to this plight and information.  Helping him, was always something that could help the languishing population of Drell and their host race, the Hanar. 

Here is the DLC outline.....don't have much hope for something like this, but it is comforting to think that there are ways to make this plausible in-game, even if something like it never comes to fruition.

I pray this doesn't end up to messy.....so apologies to anyones "eyes" who go cross trying to make sense of this. NONE of the storylines are fleshed out in the slightest, so feel free to add actual story content/gameplay if you are so inclined. And since I am primarily a Thanemancer, his content is more thorough than the others. Here it goes:

Story DLC Highlighting ME2 Ex-Squadmates

*NOTE* With the way this would be implemented, anyone could play this DLC regardless of what ME2 squadmates are alive or dead. Since this is meant to highlight the ME2 squaddies who were NOT made into ME3 squaddies, Garrus and Tali will be counted towards the ME3 squad list. Lastly, depending on when this would be played, and who is still alive at the time, the available player list could change (replayability, yes??). Legion has been left out because of his current role in ME3.
Cast: (available teammates between 3 - 9 )
From ME2: Thane
Mordin
Jack
Samara
Miranda
Jacob
Grunt
Zaeed
Kasumi
(If at least three of these members are not available, the following are left to choose from)
From ME3: James
Liara
EDI
Ashley/Kaidan
Garrus
Tail
Preface for Available Temp Squadmates: From the ME2 squad list, any and all could be dead. If ALL ME2 cast listed are dead, it defaults to available ME3 squad list (VS, Garrus and Tali could potentially be dead, which is the only reason they are at the bottom of the list.)

Thane Specific content added to make him playable.
One issue we have with Thane, is his current condition (healthwise). The following would be implemented to allow for Thane to be a party member during this DLC. The Player could choose NOT to do the following, and work from the remaining ME2/ME3 squad list. If the following content is activated by the Player, this DOES NOT GUARANTEE THANE LIVES for the rest of the game. Just bolsters him enough to make him available for said DLC. (No worries, Thane lovers and friends of Thane.....the DLC content will allow the Possibility for Thane to survive to the end of the game.)

A small amount of content would be added to the base game. This content would be available to activate AFTER your initial interaction with Thane in Huerta Hospital. The diagram below illustrates this:

(The diagram I designed was initially made before the release of the EC, as a way to keep Thane alive until the end of the game. Ignore the heading, please.)


As you can see this would be a short conversation with Thane about his doctor/a doctor having a new treatment to try (since we already have information on the Eupolmus Device, that might be the best way to go, but it could be something new/different.) The dialogue option even gives people who "accidently" triggered it when they don't wish to change his availability (and perhaps his fate later on), to 'leave him be', so to speak. If you choose to have him take the treatment, he is now available (until before the Citadel Coup), to join you in the following DLC.

Story Setup

Locations Visited: Omega (if Omega is done in another DLC, then any location that would work for Cerberus Ops)
Noveria
Kajhee

**NOTE** There has been a rumor about Omega DLC since the game was released. I still like the idea of it being used since it was a ME2 specific location. I am writing all of this on premise that something isn't, hasn't been
written by BW. Obviously, if it does get written, a new Location (moon, base, planet) with a strong Cerberus presence would be used. I kind of like the idea of a Batarian colony (the Batarians have been involved in a number of useable story lines, and could make for interesting involvement) in the event that Omega is not available for this type of storyline.

*Each location would have certain character highlights, if those characters/teammates are alive and being used on these missions. If those characters are unavailable, that character specific dialogue will not trigger HOWEVER all playable content is still available. I will now highlight the different characters on the different locales that will have specific character content available.*

Omega (or it's equivalent replacement)

1) Cerberus Takedown: Miranda Lawson and Jacob Taylor
a) Both characters being ex-Cerberus, would have extra dialogue and/or action sequences

2) Mercenary Involvement: Zaeed Massani
a) Gaining control of Blue Suns; Zaeed specific dialogue.

3) Secondary mission: Visit Maelon/Daniel/Mordin's old clinic: Mordin Solnus and Thane Krios
a) Mordin gets to check up on his old clinic, and meets a new assistant. A Drell who has intel that sends the team to
Noveria. Mordin unique dialogue.
Thane short banter with Drell assistant.

Noveria

1) Work with Lorik Qui'n and Gianna Parasini: Kasumi Goto, Jack (subject zero), and Grunt

a) The scenerio would center around the intel extracted from the Drell assistant. This could involve another
thwarting of TIM and cerberus.
Kasumi could have been involved in a heist for something related to this subject matter (considering the companies
that work on Noveria, this is ripe for espionage, insider info, and sabotage, so I would say a lot of possibilities could
come in to play.) Unique dialogue for Kasumi.
c) Jack could find information regarding her time on Praggia (perhaps something hinted at during her LM in ME2)
Unique dialogue for Jack. (To make this content relevant even if Jack isn't available for the DLC, the information
should relate back to the main mission.....obviously.)
d) Trading O'keer data for something vital. Grunt unique dialogue.

**NOTE**
Noveria being the planet with so many different scientific/technological companies on it, makes it a great background for information, potential assets, and actual equipment to be had. It is also a good jumping point for next story location; Kajhee.

Kajhee

1) Work with Hanar and Asari scientist: Thane Krios and Samara (Justicar)

a) Actual research from Noveria leads to extended/elaborated research being DENIED the Drell people (a cure or life
extention for all Drells suffering from Kepral's Syndrome). Unique dialogue for Thane.
Asari scientist is believed to be a traitor, but the Players investigation leads to another. Samara has
unique dialogue and action scene.
c) Cure/life extention can be initiated. **If your relationship with Thane is Loyal or Romanced, you will have an opportunity to have him STAY on Kajhee and get treated.** However, he will argue with you because his son is not with him. You must have either reconfirmed romance (see LI content list for further info) OR high enough Paragon/.Renagade/Reputation to have him take the treatment. Further more, you can avoid the conversation by NOT clicking on him. This will simply default to him and all other crew members getting back aboard the Normandy, and flying back to the Citadel. If Thane returns to the Citadel with the team, his involvement in the Citadel remains exactly the same. If he DOES stay on Kajhee, then the game will default to Kirahee (if alive) or the Councilor will die (play out exactly if you had a dead Thane from ME2, or you didn't speak to him at all.) Maybe a short email can be received from Kolyat saying Thank You for his people, and that he is on his way to join his father.

Extra Romance Content for ME2 LI

**All romance content would come during the final trip from Noveria to Kajhee. This would take place in Shepard's cabin. Romance content for the ME3 squaddies could be added here as well, if they are the members with you, HOWEVER, since I have no doubt that the current ME3 squadmates will probably be used in other SP DLC, I am not going to add them to the list. PLEASE understand this is NOT me shafting the ME3 LI's. I am MORE than happy to have them in here with extra romance content, but since this is meant to highlight the ME2 exsquaddies and the non-squaddie Love Interests, I will only post my ideas on those.**

Thane Krios

1) Player would be able to reconfirm the romance. By doing so, this would unlock the Paramour Achievement.
2) This would also trigger the availability to cure/extend Thane's life.
3) Dialogue, kiss, would take place in front of Shepard's bed, fade to black.

Jack (subject zero)

1) Unique dialogue, standing in front of Shepards bed, passionate kiss and fade to black.

Miranda

1) Sitting on couch, more relaxed, holding hands, unique dialogue, kiss with hug.

Jacob

1) Standing in front of fish tank.
2) Player can finally give him a bit of their mind. (if they choose)
3) Jacob will show deeper regret.
4) Player could have a Paragon Interrupt that takes him by the hand, and forgives (but doesn't forget) his choices. If NOT taken, Shepard will turn away, and Jacob will leave.

Samara

1) Even though she didn't offer the Paramour Achievement for ME2 players, your Shepards were given "intimate" scenes, and it was hinted that she would/could be available as a LI in ME3.
2) To initiate this scene, you must "call" up Samara.
3) In the middle of the room, unique dialogue (including an opportunity for players who wanted a romance with her to speak of their feelings for her).
4) If you choose dialogue that indicates you have feelings for her, you will get an Interrupt that allows you to finally kiss her. I don't have a problem for those not locked in another romance, to get the Paramour Achievement (if they haven't already.)

**Again, feel free to add for ME3 LIs. I honestly believe that more romance content should be for all, but this DLC is meant to utilize the ME2 non-squaddies (and the LI's that apply).**

Banter

If you have a relationship with any of the teammembers the Player recruits for this DLC mission, occasional banter could be heard to reference your current romantic involvement (think of Legacy, and MotA for DA2.)

 
Okay, I have another addon to my Story DLC Outline. During the trip from Noveria to Kajhee (where the romance content can be initiated in Shepard's cabin), you set it up so that once the Normandy leaves for Kajhee the following will happen:

1) Scene starts with Shepard standing in front of their personal terminal in Shepard's cabin.

2) Any movement, or button clicking will open up a menu of names. All current squaddies available during this DLC. (yes, that INCLUDES non-romancable squadmate, like Zaeed, Mordin, Kasumi....)

3) Make your selection, and if it is your chosen LI, romance content to commence.

4) If it is a non-LI squaddie, you can have a short dialogue with them. Those that are looking for extra dialogue fun from these characters (i.e. Mordin, Zaeed, Grunt, ect....) can have a bit extra. This encourages replayability which helps sell this DLC.



This sort of device would allow also those that choose NOT to romance anyone, to still have a bit of fun, and again, would encourage replayability making this type of DLC more desirable to spend money on. Just a thought. Will add it to the existing outline.

**EDIT for Formatting**

Modifié par coldwetn0se, 04 août 2012 - 06:29 .

[Han Shot First]

wildannie wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...


One of Shepard's replies is tell her that they aren't dead yet, and they should make the most of the time they have left together.

I prefer that less chosen path over the blue babies joke, and think that last line by Shepard could apply just as well to a playthrough where Shepard is romancing Thane. That I think is the point a relationship with Thane. Not some miracle cure that neither is likely to see, but to make the most of the time they have left together.

yeah? well they didn't get to make the most of the time they had left, Shep was in jail and when they reunite he's changed, become distant, and has nothing meaningful to say.  His life could have been prolonged, it would have made no difference to you so why would you even care?

I wouldn't mind Thane getting more content before he dies, and from what I've seen on youtube the Thane romance wasn't well handled. I cease to agree with the Thanemancers however when they argue that there should be an option to save/cure Thane.

Why do I care?

Because I like  Mass Effect 3 and I like stories I'm interested in to have some emotional impact. If you give Shepard an easy out in every situation, you effectively remove any emotional impact that story would have otherwise had. Back after Mass Effect 1 was released there was vocal minority that argued that Shepard should have had an option to save both Kaidan and Ashley on Virmire, and I argued just as vehemently against that.

I'm sure that someone will read the above and think "I hated either Ashley or Kaidan and that scene did nothing for me." Good for you. For those of us who did like both  characters however, it was one of the more emotionally impactful moments of the series. We felt Shepard's anguish and helplessness in not being able to get them both out alive.

I also care because Thane is one of my favorite characters, and I'd hate to see either his ME2 plotline or that amazing hospital scene swept away with one broad stoke of the writer's pen. In fact the hospital scene with Thane is the only scene in the series that nearly brought me to tears.

Thankfully I have little to worry about, as I think there is little to no chance of Bioware altering Thane's hospital scene. If Thane was to get more content in DLC it is far more likely that all of that content would be set before the coup, and not provide an escape for Thane.

Bluecansam wrote...
Why is it different for Thane and Thane only? Yes, he was terminally ill, but before the Suicide Mission, his expectation of death was no different than anyone else's. So why is survival now a "cop out" when it wasn't then? If you say it's because he has a terminal disease, how is a terminal disease different from another Suicide Mission?

Death was guaranteed for Thane, whereas for the others it was only probable or likely.

Also Thane's impending death was more central to his character than the probablility of death was to other character's. Other than their loyalty missions they don't have a lot of dialogue dealing with it, and certainly not to the extent of Thane. In Mass Effect Thane is defined by his terminal illness and how he is dealing with it. With the other characters the probability of death is more of a side plot than something that is central to their character.

That being said, the so-called Suicide Mission was a bit of a cop out by Bioware. Rather than sticking to that original marketing slogan of "Many choices lie ahead...none of them easy," the player was given an easy out where he or she could save everyone. As much as I love both Mass Effect 2 and the Suicide Mission, that was one of its flaws. A perfect run shold have been one where the player got through with the minimum amount of casualties rather than a run where the player gets through with no casualties. The player should have been faced with not being able to save everyone, just like Virmire.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 04 août 2012 - 06:57 .

[AresKeith]

and you don't think saving Thane would have an emotional impact on people who wanted to save him?

And you can still lose members of your Squad on the Suicide mission even if you did the loyalty missions, everything was built around player's choices and having them impact the next game, Bioware wrote in an Option to save Thane or keep him alive long enough for the Hanar to find a cure

[Han Shot First]

AresKeith wrote...

and you don't think saving Thane would have an emotional impact on people who wanted to save him?

That might have triggered some emotions but it wouldn't had the same emotional impact on players than his death scene did. Thane's hospital scene is frequently mentioned as among peoples' favorite scenes in Mass Effect 3. A cure scene wouldn't be remembered in the same way, beyond perhaps a minority of players who have been pining for a cure since ME2.

How many cite the paragon interrupt where you prevent Samara from taking her own life as being one of the most emotional scenes in the series? That isn't to say that people don't enjoy that scene, just that they don't remember it in the same way that they remember the deaths of Mordin, Thane, or Anderson.

And you can still lose members of your Squad on the Suicide mission even if you did the loyalty missions, everything was built around player's choices and having them impact the next game, Bioware wrote in an Option to save Thane or keep him alive long enough for the Hanar to find a cure

The Suicide Mission was ridiculously easy to get through unscathed. I did it on my first playthrough, going through the game completely unspoiled. As did a great many people. There was nothing unique about my first playthrough.

If you are completionist who talks to your squadmates at every oppurtunity and reads all the text portions of the game, the choices in the Suicide Mission are fairly straightforward and easy to make. You actually have to work harder to lose people, and have to roleplay Shepard as someone who is tactically or strategically inept in order to do so.

With the above in mind, the Suicide Mission should have had a couple unavoidable deaths that were influenced by the player's actions or decisions.

[Emeraldfern]

Han Shot First wrote...



That might have triggered some emotions but it wouldn't had the same emotional impact on players than his death scene did. Thane's hospital scene is frequently mentioned as among peoples' favorite scenes in Mass Effect 3. A cure scene wouldn't be remembered in the same way, beyond perhaps a minority of players who have been pining for a cure since ME2.

How many cite the paragon interrupt where you prevent Samara from taking her own life as being one of the most emotional scenes in the series? That isn't to say that people don't enjoy that scene, just that they don't remember it in the same way that they remember the deaths of Mordin, Thane, or Anderson.

I'm going to respectfully disagree.
I've seen survival first hand and no, it's not just simply "sunshine and bunnies".
Nor is going from anticpating death to embracing life.

If one has been in a situation like that, you sure don't forget it.
To say survival is a less emotional story is to over-simplify things imo.

For the record, the most emotional part of Mass Effect 3 for me actually was stopping Samara from killing herself. Mordin's sacrifice takes a second place.

[LanceSolous13]

How would it be the 'easy way out'. Make Shepard fight for that cure. Make it a struggle to save his/her best friend/lover. We're constantly getting things from one planet or the next, so It really doesn't have to be some 'Oh? Maybe you should sign up for that surgery.' things.

Actually, I found Mordin's Death to be the emotional high of the game for me. Why? Because I COULD have saved him. I HAD a choice there. Sure, I could have saved him, but that would royally screw me over later.

Another emotional high point? Samara's Suicide. BECAUSE I HAD A CHOICE.

Two scenes that are no longer emotional high points the second/third/fourth times? Legion and Thane's deaths. Because it will happen regardless of what I do. I have no choice there. They will die every single time. It was a tearjerker the first time around, but no the second or third times.