1198 réponses à ce sujet

[RShara]

Lol I don't have EC and Cortez lived in my playthrough. Thane and Legion are the only Unavoidables.

[AresKeith]

and then people try to compare Mordin's death to Thane and Legion, Mordin can be saved in a certain spot

[JECW]

Steve doesn't die. All you have to do is keep talking to him, and he will survive that shuttle crash.
Thane and Legion are the only one that can not be saved.

Modifié par JECW, 14 août 2012 - 08:56 .

[Blueprotoss]

Bluecansam wrote...

But Kirrahe and the salarian councilor ARE Red Shirts. The only reason they die is to express to the viewer that Kai Leng is dangerous. That's it. And, as I said, Thane only got a few minutes face time in ME3. How is that different from Jenkins?

If thats the case then Kirrahe wouldn't have lived past Virmire in ME1 and the Salarian Councilor wouldn't have lived past the Sovreign space battle.

Bluecansam wrote... 

Exactly. They died at the beginning of the first game and are remembered. People still talk about them in the third game. Not so with Thane.

Yet there was no character developement for Jenkins and Nihlus while there was no cjoice to save or kill them, which is why they're red shirts.

[Blueprotoss]

Roxy wrote...

Kirrahe and the Salarian Councilor have a chance to live...but not Thane,he dies offscreen even if you don't interact with him! So yeah I agree with Bluecansam,Thane was turned into a Red shirt! *facepalm*

If only Bioware gave us an option to save him/and cure him ( I hope they will give us an option in the near future) in the first place we wouldn't be having these conversations!

If Thane was a red shirt then he would have had a very short life like Jenkins and Nihlus.  Either way Thane goes against the whole "red shirt" thing because he doesn't randomly die in the very beginning for no valid reason.  If Thane is a "red shirt" then its possible to label Spock from the "Wrath of Kahn", Gandalf in the "Fellowship of the Ring", and Kenobi in "A New Hope" as red shirts.

[Blueprotoss]

Renmiri1 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Somebody said Dr. Chakwas wouldn't be a valid source for a potential treatment for Thane?

So, a doctor who is extensively practiced in medicine, and knows numerous types of xenobiology and xenophysiology (enough to recommend that Thane get a lung transplant) is not a valid source of information?

wat

Is just BlueProtoss.. Nothing serves as reference but Bioware material according to him, and when we give in game references to a cure, given by Bioware, he says those are not valid..

I don't think he has ever heard of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy 

Yet the only fallacies that are being used here are coming from most of the Thane fans since Bioware holds the lore and decides what happens with ME.  Its like demanding changes to be done or the "fans" about Harry Potter with JK Rowling, Spawn with Todd McFarlane, and Ridley Scott on Alien.

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

But Dr. Chakwas IS a valid source.

Why would the Illusive Man hire a doctor that cannot take care of the crew, ESPICIALLY if she can't take care of the one person who will need to see constant medical supervision. If Grunt were to get horribly injured and need imideate medical attention, Why would Chakwas be hired if she if she isn't able to provide that help?

Based on the fact that Chakwas was hired for a multi-species crew, She would logically be able to take care of all of them because she was hired to do excactly that. If she can't take care of Garrus, Samara, Thane, Tali, Grunt, or Mordin, then why is she here?

Also, if she's writing that report in the first place, then she is qualified to be stating such. If she is unqualified, Then the report wouldn't exist. But it does and thus its logical to once again come to the conclusion that she is more than able to take care of Thane.

And, once again, Thane DID NOT want to die at the end of ME2 so its illogical for him to be accepting of his death in Mass Effect 3.

o Ventus wrote...

Somebody said Dr. Chakwas wouldn't be a valid source for a potential treatment for Thane?

So, a doctor who is extensively practiced in medicine, and knows numerous types of xenobiology and xenophysiology (enough to recommend that Thane get a lung transplant) is not a valid source of information?

wat

It seems like there's a misinformation campaign going on here based on how Dr. Chakwas is an expert on human biology and is very limited on xenobiology.  Her xenobiology knowledge isn't based on Drell while most of that knowledge is based on Asari and Taurians.  I'm sure she has more knowledge on Salarians and Krogan before Drell.  If you had to use an example of a xenobiology knowledge expert then you should look at Mordin or Dr. Michel while they would even have little knowledge on Drell based on the rarity of the Drell race.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 août 2012 - 03:52 .

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

But there ARE cures in ME2 and ME3. Its not popping out of nowhere..

Yet organ transplants aren't the cure for disease and you act as if a reccomendation from Dr. Chakwas and a report on Liara's Shadow Broker terminal is enough, which all it shows is a tiny amount of information that doesn't support a cure.  Either way Thane would need a miracle in ME2 and ME3.

[LanceSolous13]

....And your source of Dr. Chakwas knowing only Turian or Asari biology is?

You ignored my arguement. If there is a very ill drell on the mission, Its completely illogical for the Illusive Man to hire someone who is un able to take care of the, ESPICIALLY if arranging such a team is as expensive as the game hammers in.

On top of all that, No doctor would ever write a report like that let alone examine the patient unless they were properly trained.

On top of THAT, Putting that report into Lair of the Shadow Broker and then never discussing it again is a cop out, plothole, and bad writing. No question about that.

[Blueprotoss]

Squeegee83 wrote...

That depends, I know I have come to learn of some variables that could have saved Thane on a logic level. However, what are these unknown variables you speak of?

The general lack of knowledge on Kepral Syndrome, Drell biology, and Thane in general.  Ironically there are probably more treatmenst based on biotics and the Genophage then Kepral Syndrome.

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Here is the problem/fault with your argument:  Almost every killable romance character in ME3 has an option to save them besides Thane/Steve. It really does not look good for BioWare to kill a female and gay romance character w/out an option. It looks bad on every level.

I see it was already answered while I saved him in my 1st playthrough without knowing about his death, which was with a FemShep.

 

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Thane doesn’t need his own version of the Lazarus project. He can be either prolonged with a lung transplant or saved by a cured since these two things were already mention in ME2. As for the other characters, there is still that option to save them.

For Thane to get a cure at this point based on a lack of knowledge then he would need his own version of a Lazarus Project. 

Squeegee83 wrote... 

Thane in my opinion did have the best romance in ME2, however, his romance still fails in ME3. His prayer does not make up for anything.

The prayer suits his character pretty well fromm what was established from ME2.  Either way relationships are usually optional in RPGs whether its in ME, KotOR, DA, Neverwinter Nights, the Witcher, Alpha Protocol, Fallout, the Elder Scrolls and Persona.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 août 2012 - 04:17 .

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

....And your source of Dr. Chakwas knowing only Turian or Asari biology is?

You should know this from ME1.

LanceSolous13 wrote... 

You ignored my arguement. If there is a very ill drell on the mission, Its completely illogical for the Illusive Man to hire someone who is un able to take care of the, ESPICIALLY if arranging such a team is as expensive as the game hammers in.

I didn't ignore anything and this should be a debate not an arguement. Dr. Chakwas was hired by the Illussive Man based on her connection to Shepard and her human background/expertice.  The Illussive Man was never a trust worthy character based on alone on Cerberus's practices. 

LanceSolous13 wrote... 

On top of all that, No doctor would ever write a report like that let alone examine the patient unless they were properly trained.

Most examinations are based on opinion with doctors especialy with the numerous amounts of treatments that can be offered.

LanceSolous13 wrote... 

On top of THAT, Putting that report into Lair of the Shadow Broker and then never discussing it again is a cop out, plothole, and bad writing. No question about that.

Thats not a cop out, plothole, or bad writing at all based on how transplants aren't the cure for diseases.  Maybe you should pay attention to what Bioware tells us instead of getting rapped up in only opinions.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Thats not a cop out, plothole, or bad writing at all based on how transplants aren't the cure for diseases.  Maybe you should pay attention to what Bioware tells us instead of getting rapped up in only opinions.

I guess you believe anything your told them huh

[LanceSolous13]

Please give me a link to something in Mass Effect 1 that states Chakwas only knows about Turian and Asari biology. I've played ME1 a total of 4 times in the last month alone and nothing says that. Give me an exact scene.

For the record, in this instance of the word, I was using the definition of arguement that means a statement of fact in a debate or discussion.

Making my way down you're post, You state that the Ilusive Man hired Chakwas only for her connection to Shepard. Its true that this is a reason she was hired, however, her primary role is to protect his investment, the crew. If she is unable to do that, Her presence is rendered pointless an TIM would be more productive in flushing millions of credits down a toilet.

If she can't treat the crew of the Normandy, She shouldn't be the Normandy's doctor.

I never said they weren't based on the opinions of doctors, but their on the opinions of doctors who have an understanding of the patient and the condition. If she was taking a blind stab in the dark as you're suggesting, then it would be completely illogical and unprofessional. No sane doctor would ever write a report on a patient and illness they have no understanding for. They could lose their lisence for that.

Its is a cop out/plot hole/bad writing because its never discussed again. Why is it there if they never use it? It serves absolutely no purpose (Bad Writing) even though it was very important to the character's plot (plothole) and would have resulted in a more fufilling and interesting experience (cop out).

[Roxy]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Roxy wrote...

Kirrahe and the Salarian Councilor have a chance to live...but not Thane,he dies offscreen even if you don't interact with him! So yeah I agree with Bluecansam,Thane was turned into a Red shirt! *facepalm*

If only Bioware gave us an option to save him/and cure him ( I hope they will give us an option in the near future) in the first place we wouldn't be having these conversations!

If Thane was a red shirt then he would have had a very short life like Jenkins and Nihlus.  Either way Thane goes against the whole "red shirt" thing because he doesn't randomly die in the very beginning for no valid reason.  If Thane is a "red shirt" then its possible to label Spock from the "Wrath of Kahn", Gandalf in the "Fellowship of the Ring", and Kenobi in "A New Hope" as red shirts.

I said he was turned into a Red shirt...I didn't say he was one from the beginning!

You are a waste  of my time and others...squegee,lance and the other people have explained over and over and everything you have posted has no point whatsoever..you make your self look as if you only read very little with what everybody has posted here,do you even think on what they have said? I highly doubt it!

Your one-sided and this will be the last time I say anything to you because I don't argue with people like you I wouldn't want to lower myself to your level you just might beat me with experience!

Modifié par Roxy, 16 août 2012 - 03:09 .

[Renmiri1]

@LanceSolous13 And you were afraid our pet troll would abandon us!

BlueProtoss.. read the definition of the logical fallacy.. Then think for about 2 seconds.. Chawkes was written by Bioware but Chawkes is "no true Scottsman",i,e, not a true Bioware source because.. because shut up that's why ?

[o Ventus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

You should know this from ME1.

That explains her also knowing krogan and quarian physiology from Wrex and Tali.

[krukow]

So can I refer to thane as a "redshirt" from now on, or will you thanemancers get mad at me?

Cuz you said it first!

[Renmiri1]

krukow wrote...

So can I refer to thane as a "redshirt" from now on, or will you thanemancers get mad at me?

Cuz you said it first!

Why would we be mad at you ?

We are mad at Bioware who gave us a deep wonderful character and LI on one game then made him a redshirt on the next game. We can't be mad at you for saying the truth.

[krukow]

Renmiri1 wrote...

krukow wrote...

So can I refer to thane as a "redshirt" from now on, or will you thanemancers get mad at me?

Cuz you said it first!

Why would we be mad at you ?

We are mad at Bioware who gave us a deep wonderful character and LI on one game then made him a redshirt on the next game. We can't be mad at you for saying the truth.

Cool, I try not to offend the various fanbases.  God knows how much I enjoy the "ash is racist" threads...

[Roxy]

krukow wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

krukow wrote...

So can I refer to thane as a "redshirt" from now on, or will you thanemancers get mad at me?

Cuz you said it first!

Why would we be mad at you ?

We are mad at Bioware who gave us a deep wonderful character and LI on one game then made him a redshirt on the next game. We can't be mad at you for saying the truth.

Cool, I try not to offend the various fanbases.  God knows how much I enjoy the "ash is racist" threads...

I love Ash! I like her attitude!

And no we are not gonna be mad at you ,cause like Renmiri said Thane was an amazing character( I have 10 femsheps who romanced him ^^ ) and Bioware killed him off without any option to save him....sooo yeah that's pretty much turning him into a "red shirt"! ....our anger is aiming at Bioware!  

[samb]

Blueprotoss wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

But there ARE cures in ME2 and ME3. Its not popping out of nowhere..

Yet organ transplants aren't the cure for disease and you act as if a reccomendation from Dr. Chakwas and a report on Liara's Shadow Broker terminal is enough, which all it shows is a tiny amount of information that doesn't support a cure.  Either way Thane would need a miracle in ME2 and ME3.

Umm  a transplant is a cure for most diseases that need one, like a liver transplant. If you have hepatic (liver) failure and you get a new liver you no longer have liver failure. 
You might still be an alcoholic, but your liver isn't failing. You might need to take immune suppressive medication to avoid organ rejection, but you don't have liver failure. 

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.  If Kepral's syndrome was damaged lungs due to too much moisture, then a transplant would cure it. It will not make the new lung immune to moisture though and unless the drell wise up and use exo suits or dehumidifier rebreathers, Kepral's syndrome will reoccur. I always thought it was stupid of them for not protecting themselves. 

Modifié par samb, 16 août 2012 - 11:45 .

[Bluecansam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

If thats the case then Kirrahe wouldn't have lived past Virmire in ME1 and the Salarian Councilor wouldn't have lived past the Sovreign space battle.

HA! It's funny because they both died in ME1 in my playthrough.

Yet there was no character developement for Jenkins and Nihlus while there was no cjoice to save or kill them, which is why they're red shirts.

And there was no character development for Thane and no choice to save him, which is why HE'S a redshirt in ME3. Thank you for proving my point.

[Bluecansam]

ShallowlLife9871 wrote...

 So, here are MY thoughts on this subject.

I like Thane. I would always talk to him in ME2 without
fail. He is an interesting Character and has been a Bro to My Sheps. and yes, I
did romance him.

I do feel like that his character needs at lest one more conversation.
Espsaliy if you romanced him, and maybe a line form Garrus in fount of the memorial
wall. “ I’m sorry about Thane” ect

But what I feel is this [ and I know I will be shot down for
this]: Thane’s Romance is about Spending time with the one you love. Not about
Cures popping out of thin air.

Here are my reasons.

Thane is a tragic character. Form his disease to his son, to
the death of Irikah, Thane was set up to be tragic.  His romance was NEVER going to be a happy one.
However, that doesn’t mean his romance was never a good one. Ie Romeo and Juliet.
But the over theme of his romance, and character is spending time with the
people you love. While he does become afraid of death, I can see him accepting it
again as his disease got worse.

The cure it’s self, however it is presented in game, WOULD
be popping out of thin air. When we meet thane, he is in the LATE stages of a terminal
disease. The chance of a cure working is virtually 1%.   And before people say Genophage cure. The Hannar
have only recently started working on a cure. By the time they would have found
something, tiral and error, massed produced it for the drell, Thane would have
died anyway. While people have been working on a cure a cure for the genophage
for thousands of years longer.

So yeah, these are my thoughts on a Cure for Thane.

Hi! Welcome to the thread! Sorry for the late response, I've been spending most of my computer time lately on writing, so I haven't been back to this thread in a few days.

While I appreciate that you view Thane as a tragic character, there's nothing "popping out of thin air" in what we're asking for here. As has been mentioned, there were in-game allusions in ME2 and hints in the time between ME2 and ME3 by BioWare staff and official sources to possible treatments for Kepral's Syndrome, which Thane was a good candidate for. If they hadn't made such hints, then we wouldn't have expected them. If they weren't going to use those treatments, they should have addressed this in-game, and explained why these treatments were no longer viable.

Note that I do not use the word "cure". Saving Thane =/= Curing Thane. I get that Kepral's is an incurable disease at the time of the Reaper War, and I get that the drell are not a widely known species, so research on the disease is limited. However, just because a disease cannot be cured, doesn't mean the disease cannot be treated. Cancer, for example, is not curable. But there are treatments. Cystic Fibrosis, the disease Kepral's Syndrome was originally based upon, is not curable. But there are treatments. If people with CF can live longer, fuller lives today with treatment, why can't Thane, who lives 170+ years in the future?

[Bluecansam]

AresKeith wrote...

and then people try to compare Mordin's death to Thane and Legion, Mordin can be saved in a certain spot

I actually would have loved a similar choice in saving Thane as we had with saving Mordin. You have to give up a LOT to save Mordin, and there are a number of factors that have to be in play first before it'll even work to save him. You also have to feel like a selfish douchecanoe, cuz you're putting the life of your friend over giving a future to an entire species. (I'm assuming. I chose to let him die to cure the genophage.)

Relationship checks, options based on choices made in the previous game, sacrificing war assets, feeling like a horrible person for saving your friend/loved one... I want all that. How can Thane be cheapened as a character if it's a gut-wrenching decision either way you play it?