1198 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Miranda said she would do anything to save Orianna and changes her records with or without Miranda's skills isn't surprising.  Miranda also knew that her father would go after her anyways.

That isn't even a criticism of my point. Please be more lucid.

There is a definitive time period that creates an inconsistency within that narrative. The context of these emails, if take at face value, meant that Mirand was attempting to GET pregant DURING the mission when she wasn't even able to get to the places mentioned. Furthermore, had she been doing this DURING the misssion, Cerberus would have known about it.

The only logical conclusion is that these events took place years before the Lazarus project began, unless Miranda has a TARDIS somewhere inside her suit and is time travelling.

[krukow]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Miranda said she would do anything to save Orianna and changes her records with or without Miranda's skills isn't surprising.  Miranda also knew that her father would go after her anyways.

That isn't even a criticism of my point. Please be more lucid.

There is a definitive time period that creates an inconsistency within that narrative. The context of these emails, if take at face value, meant that Mirand was attempting to GET pregant DURING the mission when she wasn't even able to get to the places mentioned. Furthermore, had she been doing this DURING the misssion, Cerberus would have known about it.

The only logical conclusion is that these events took place years before the Lazarus project began, unless Miranda has a TARDIS somewhere inside her suit and is time travelling.

Don't put it past her.  Everything's just a matter of resources, remember?

[krukow]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

krukow wrote...

Well, over the course of two years, they never see or hear from another reaper, and everyone who has talked to one is dead, or dispersed somewhere.

It is possible that they just started to think that it must have been a geth thing, and that clearly the reapers are silly. I mean, robot space chtulus who destroy all life every 50,000 years? Hah, pull the other one!

People do that all the time, where they think one thing in the moment, but convince themselves otherwise later on. So not a retcon.

That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that a member of the Citadel Council acknowledged the existence of the Reapers and went on to retract their/her statement.

Politicians?  Retracting statements??

GTFO

Modifié par krukow, 17 août 2012 - 10:57 .

[BSpud]

Blueprotoss wrote...
So Jacob never had a problematic record in the Alliance like his dad

By all accounts Jacob did not have a problematic record in the Alliance. He left because he was frustrated by politics and/or bureaucracy getting in the way of his duties or the aims of the Alliance military. There's no indication that he was a substandard, difficult or problematic soldier, however. Ronald Taylor was a mostly absent father and was not a known problem to his employers until he end up going on a sadistic power trip after being stranded on a distant planet for about 10 years. Jacob very strongly expressed disapproval at his father's actions and subsequently cut all emotional ties with him.

Modifié par BeefheartSpud, 17 août 2012 - 11:19 .

[JECW]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Tasha Nar Rayya wrote...

All I mean is that it isn't constructive to be so negative. It frustrates the individual, and it frustrates whoever is being targeted (so, Thane's writer I assume.) I know you are making your voice known. But it seems that the expectations are very unrealistic considering it changes the canon that has already been established.

This is very true and more pure/extreme negativity won't solve anything.

How exactly is this thread being negative? Who are we attacking exactly?

[Bluecansam]

SaveThaners are critical of BioWare, sure. But we frequently have and continue to present ideas on how BioWare can fix Thane in a way that is beneficial to all parties, including BioWare itself. We're not just saying "BioWare sucks!" We're saying, "This is poor writing. This is why it's poor writing. This can be made into good writing by doing the following..." THIS is the definition of constructive criticism. We point out failings and make specific suggestions on how they might improve in the future and perhaps correct current mistakes.

If we're a bit exasperated at times, though, it's because no one seems to think we have a right to our opinions. And it really is tiring to have to repeat ourselves so often.

[samb]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Liver failure is liver failure whether its alcoholism or any other disease even if its not based in the liver itself.  Btw enough money and knowing the right people will get you past screening and vetting.

See? You don't know what you're talking about. Liver failure can be the result of Hepatitis, alcohol abuse, gall stones. You just can't admit that you know nothing about medicine and made a stupid statement to justify your stance. Money and connection wont do you any good since it is a national list. It is triaged based on need and viability. This is why there is a black market for them, rich people can't get them legitimately. 

Blueprotoss wrote....If I did then I would be saying that transplants are the cure all on disease.

Now you are exaggerating the point because you are wrong. Transplants do cure what they were intended to cure. They don't make you immortal. 

Organ failures aren't always related to that organ while the symptoms will tell you a different if you pay attention enough.

dumbest statement, ever. Liver failure has nothing to with the liver?  

Again if I was talking out of my ass then I would make assumptions that Kepral Syndrome has cure and expect a miracle.  There is no current cure for Kepral's Syndrome just like how it was only recently being looked at by the Hanar while Thane would have died already based on the years of research and testing.  Btw you also assume that you could have survived the surgery ifthere was a real cure.

You are talking out of your ass because you are wrong.  Transplants do save lives and if Kepral syndrome was tissue damage as stated in the codex then a transplant would buy him a few decades.  Assuming he would die during the transplant is your own bias as nothing has led us to think surgeons in the future to be inept. 
You didn't do the research, and neither did Bioware.  If they put him on the transplant list and he died waiting for a new lung THAT would be realistic, not whatever ignorant BS you are sprouting.  

[BSpud]

I've discovered that the Blueprotoss phenomenon makes more sense if you pretend he's secretly Tommy Wiseau and, accordingly, his posts are easier to deal with if you read them in Wiseau's voice.

[LanceSolous13]

*has no clue who that is*

[samb]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

*has no clue who that is*

The guy from The Wall I think. 
Famous for not making sense. 

[Blueprotoss]

BringBackNihlus wrote...

Maybe my memory is hazy, but I'm almost certain after the BotC (assuming you save the Council), they straight up thank you for stopping the Reapers from invading. Not the geth. The Reapers.

DAT PROOF.

Councilor Tevos:

"You saved not just our lives, but millions from Sovereign and THE REAPERS."

Like I said the Council saw the Geth and only Sovreign was stopped.  Either way its still not a retcon.

krukow wrote...

Well, over the course of two years, they never see or hear from another reaper, and everyone who has talked to one is dead, or dispersed somewhere.

It is possible that they just started to think that it must have been a geth thing, and that clearly the reapers are silly. I mean, robot space chtulus who destroy all life every 50,000 years? Hah, pull the other one!

People do that all the time, where they think one thing in the moment, but convince themselves otherwise later on. So not a retcon.

Yep and polotics is a good example of this. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 18 août 2012 - 01:30 .

[Blueprotoss]

BeefheartSpud wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet he had an Alliance backgrond and Jacob had that fling in ME3 if you romanced Jacob in ME2.

Ron Taylor was a privateer (edit-- actually the Hugo Gernback was a privately-owned survey ship and there's no background info provided on Ronald Taylor's ME Wikia entry), not military. Regardless, both of them sharing a military background has nothing to do with character flaws.

Jacob's romance in ME3 is the whole point of this. Again, let the record show that Jacob was not in any way a womanizer or cheater in ME2.

Either way the "father like son" statement is true.

[BSpud]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

*has no clue who that is*

Oh to be in your shoes again. You now have a fun internet assignment for tonight. Hit that Google and the Youtube!

Blueprotoss wrote...

Either way the "father like son" statement is true.

How is this claim true?

Modifié par BeefheartSpud, 18 août 2012 - 01:37 .

[LanceSolous13]

Which it should be false because of his Character Development in ME2. His whole LM was about how he's nothing like his father. In ME3, This is ignored and he cheats on Fem!Shepard.

First of all, LIs should never die or stop being LIs regardless of choice.

[Blueprotoss]

BeefheartSpud wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
So Jacob never had a problematic record in the Alliance like his dad

By all accounts Jacob did not have a problematic record in the Alliance. He left because he was frustrated by politics and/or bureaucracy getting in the way of his duties or the aims of the Alliance military. There's no indication that he was a substandard, difficult or problematic soldier, however. Ronald Taylor was a mostly absent father and was not a known problem to his employers until he end up going on a sadistic power trip after being stranded on a distant planet for about 10 years. Jacob very strongly expressed disapproval at his father's actions and subsequently cut all emotional ties with him.

Jacob had a problematic record while its based on what the Alliance believes in, which was a clash of beliefs.  You don't have to be a bad soldier like getting demarits to have a problematic record. Power normally corrupts most, which I can't blame him for that with that 10 years of being disserted.

[Blueprotoss]

samb wrote...

See? You don't know what you're talking about. Liver failure can be the result of Hepatitis, alcohol abuse, gall stones. You just can't admit that you know nothing about medicine and made a stupid statement to justify your stance. Money and connection wont do you any good since it is a national list. It is triaged based on need and viability. This is why there is a black market for them, rich people can't get them legitimately.

Again how are transplants a cure for disease like how liver failure is liver failure whether its alcoholism or any other disease even if its not based in the liver itself.  Again enough money and knowing the right people will get you past anyting and everything.

samb wrote...  

Now you are exaggerating the point because you are wrong. Transplants do cure what they were intended to cure. They don't make you immortal.

 Life is the greatest disease while you chose to ignore that transplants still don't cure disease. 

samb wrote... 

dumbest statement, ever. Liver failure has nothing to with the liver?

Again organ failures aren't always related to that organ while the symptoms will tell you a different if you pay attention enough.

samb wrote...  

You are talking out of your ass because you are wrong.  Transplants do save lives and if Kepral syndrome was tissue damage as stated in the codex then a transplant would buy him a few decades.  Assuming he would die during the transplant is your own bias as nothing has led us to think surgeons in the future to be inept. 
You didn't do the research, and neither did Bioware.  If they put him on the transplant list and he died waiting for a new lung THAT would be realistic, not whatever ignorant BS you are sprouting.  

Oh the irony.  Again if I was talking out of my ass then I would make assumptions that Kepral Syndrome has cure and expect a miracle.  There is no current cure for Kepral's Syndrome just like how it was only recently being looked at by the Hanar while Thane would have died already based on the years of research and testing.  You also assume that you could have survived the surgery if there was a real cure or if he could get a transplant in the 1st place.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 18 août 2012 - 01:45 .

[Blueprotoss]

BeefheartSpud wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Either way the "father like son" statement is true.

How is this claim true?

His father had multiple women and if you romanced Jacob in ME2 then Jacob will also have multiple women.

[Bluecansam]

Blueprotoss wrote...

BeefheartSpud wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Either way the "father like son" statement is true.

How is this claim true?

His father had multiple women and if you romanced Jacob in ME2 then Jacob will also have multiple women.

In ME3, he cheats/has multiple women. We're saying that in ME2, he was not like that at all. If you say Jacob has a history of acting like his father, you must show proof from ME2. Otherwise, Jacob's character has been changed from ME2 to ME3.

[BSpud]

Pre-Cerberus: Jacob quit the Alliance of his own accord, and even worked as a privateer for off-the-books Alliance missions (the Corsairs). The Alliance obviously had no problem with him. If he was not discharged, and if he was still hired on as an independant merc with the Alliance after that, he obviously did not have a problematic record. After Cerberus, of course he would be blacklisted. If you're counting Cerberus against him, take note that Jacob also butted heads with the Illusive Man when he felt TIM was crossing ethical boundaries. TIM obviously kept a lot from Jacob (as he did Shepard and Miranda).

Bottomline is, semantics and lore quibbling aside, Jacob is emphatically portrayed in ME2 as someone with a strong moral compass who is repulsed by abuse of power. What he lacks in respect for what he deems to be unnecessary rules and regulations, he makes up for in heart, bravery, outspoken honesty and loyalty. This is the exact opposite nature of his father.

Power normally corrupts most, which I can't blame him for that with that 10 years of being disserted.

Your opinion of Ronald Taylor is not what is in contention here. Take note that Acting Captain Taylor was technically only deserted for a few months. He purposefully turned off the distress beacon and then spent the rest of the time playing as a Lord of the Flies-esque megalomaniac. Again, Jacob is morally repulsed by this, proving that he has nothing in common with his father. If your suggestion is that Jacob would have done the same in his father's shoes, then that is conjecture that has no basis in anything we see or hear from the game. Not even Jacob's two-timing romance with Brynn in ME3 points to that sort of sadistic character behavior.

So we're back where we started. The conclusion remains that Jacob does not share in his father's terrible psychological flaws.

Modifié par BeefheartSpud, 18 août 2012 - 02:27 .

[RShara]

I'm laughing so hard

[BSpud]

Bluecansam wrote...

In ME3, he cheats/has multiple women. We're saying that in ME2, he was not like that at all. If you say Jacob has a history of acting like his father, you must show proof from ME2. Otherwise, Jacob's character has been changed from ME2 to ME3.

Exactly. Otherwise you're stuck in a very silly loop of bad recursive reasoning, Blue. I am going to completely throw all my BSN time and energy in this fool's errand of helping you think clearly on an issue, dammit; even if it kills me. I don't think you will--or even can--ever change your mind on anything you've already established a fixed, preconcieved viewpoint on, but I will try. I. WILL. TRY.

Modifié par BeefheartSpud, 18 août 2012 - 02:05 .

[BSpud]

RShara wrote...

I'm laughing so hard

Wish me luck!

[Taboo]

Blueprotoss wrote...

BeefheartSpud wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Either way the "father like son" statement is true.

How is this claim true?

His father had multiple women and if you romanced Jacob in ME2 then Jacob will also have multiple women.

Are you serious? Really? Do you even understand what you're saying?