How is that when Thane shouldn't die is an opinion not a statement, which shows the truth value of Thane dieing.Taboo-XX wrote...
Neither of these are arguments, they are one sided logical fallacies you're using to justify your viewpoint. Non-sequitors are not the way to convince anyone here.
They want their opinions to override the facts, which isn't going to happen.Taboo-XX wrote...
Why are you bothering these ladies and the occasional guy?
This and Thane being cured would cause a butterfly effect like what happened in the short story, A Sound of Thunder. The present was severely altered by a single butterfly that was stepped on during a time travel event to the Jurassic period. We really wouldn't know if Miranda would die since Kai Lang did cause her possible death by wounding her.Robot_94 wrote...
curing thane would set in a string a events that would require the entire game to be changed, Shepard cures thane, he stays on the citadel to protect the virmire survivor as he promised, Cerberus coup on the citadel, thane being cured he would have been able to kick kai leng's ass meaning that would be the end of him, with kai leng being dead he wouldn't be there on thessia to stop you from getting the prothean vi, which would mean there would be no need for the horizon and kronos station missions as Shepard would learn that the catalyst is the citadel, go straight there, so he wouldn't meet Miranda on horizon and thus she dies, with the illusive man never getting the prothean vi, the reapers would never move the citadel to earth, so priority earth and the unification of the fleets would never happen, thus the whole point of getting allies to retake earth would have been for nothing. just my opinion on why we cant cure thane
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 14 septembre 2012 - 04:25 .
krukow wrote...
Hey Blueprotoss? You won. Thane's dead and he's not coming back.
I don't see why you feel the need to keep arguing in here. You've been doing it for weeks.
You won. It's over. Let it be.
Blueprotoss wrote...
How is that when Thane shouldn't die is an opinion not a statement, which shows the truth value of Thane dieing.Taboo-XX wrote...
Neither of these are arguments, they are one sided logical fallacies you're using to justify your viewpoint. Non-sequitors are not the way to convince anyone here.They want their opinions to override the facts, which isn't going to happen.Taboo-XX wrote...
Why are you bothering these ladies and the occasional guy?
Blueprotoss wrote...
This and Thane being cured would cause a butterfly effect like what happened in the short story, A Sound of Thunder. The present was severely altered by a single butterfly that was stepped on during a time travel event to the Jurassic period. We really wouldn't know if Miranda would die since Kai Lang did cause her possible death by wounding her.
Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:57 .
Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Thane isn't a character essential to the main plot. (I'm sorry, fellow Thane fans, but it's true.) He doesn't have the plot significance of, say, Anderson. Or Joker. It doesn't make a huge difference to the plot whether he lives or dies. So why the hell not have him live and make a small but significant portion of the fans a lot happier?
krukow wrote...
Hey Blueprotoss? You won. Thane's dead and he's not coming back.
I don't see why you feel the need to keep arguing in here. You've been doing it for weeks.
You won. It's over. Let it be.
I'm allowed here to have a discussion just like anyone else.wildannie wrote...
I get you're sentiment but I doubt Blueprotoss will every truely win in anything.
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 septembre 2012 - 07:38 .
The facts are that a cure for Kepral's Syndrome isn't known and Thane himself was far from help in ME2 even if a friendly reccomendation on a very experimental procedure was done.coldwetn0se wrote...
Changing what is already in the game, is not the same as wishing for a different path (which before the game came out, could have gone numerous ways). The fact that it was written as it is, doesn't negate the reasons for how it COULD have been. Most here are agruing that, NOT a demand to change what was given. You wish to point to others and their comments to supposedly support your opinion (not fact), that is fine, but you still haven't added anything to this arguement except for the need to be contrary. Personally, I don't care. Say, think, do as you please. Your opinion (and yes, it is just an opinion) is not going to change, just as ours is not going to change.
ME wold have to be rewritten as a series to save Thane.coldwetn0se wrote...
Some of us have also pointed out how they COULD implement a new path for Thane, and it most certainly would not cause a "butterfly effect" on the vanilla game. It would work solely on the mechanics and story already existing in the base game. Whether you like that option again, I don't care. It isn't up to you or me, whether BW executes something like this. Either they will or they won't.
I have been debating while its not my fault that some people respond with opinions or insults when I'm a fact man.coldwetn0se wrote...
This is not, nor has ever been, a debate with you. You can see it as such, and believe that some score is being tallied if it makes you feel better. I don't generally like to even address you, since I truly believe that you argue for arguements sake. As Krukow has stated, what is in the game, is IN THE GAME. Our musings as to wishing things had been different (and giving reasons as to why they would have been just as valid of a direction to go for Thane's character in me3), doesn't change the fact that what is done, is done. And no; they are not going to remove and alter what is in the game already. We are painfully aware of that. If you need to argue this non existent debate, it's your time to waste. If you feel better about "liking" how Thane's character was handled in me3, by arguing these points, have at it. It's a defensive stance on your part as much as ours is for stating how we had believed and hoped his character would have been handled differently in me3.
Opinions are opinions just like how some people demand Bioware to do something when Bioware doesn't want to do that.coldwetn0se wrote...
We have given you links, posts, quotes, essays, and our own thought out feelings. Take it for what it is, or feel free to continue to repeat yourself and quote others. If you need to defend why you like what is in the game (and is not being changed by anyone here, obviously), then by all means continue. I will continue to support the ideas posted on this thread and others, and whatever happens, happens.
The Reapers don't have a leader from what they know and the Catalyst has always been in hiding.Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
This and Thane being cured would cause a butterfly effect like what happened in the short story, A Sound of Thunder. The present was severely altered by a single butterfly that was stepped on during a time travel event to the Jurassic period. We really wouldn't know if Miranda would die since Kai Lang did cause her possible death by wounding her.
Honestly, if Thane living causes a butterfly effect that kills Kai Leng, I'm down with that. He was an extraneous and poorly implemented villain who served no purpose other than to extend the mediocre endgame. Say Miranda investigates Horizon and finds out Cerberus is on the verge of technology to control the Reapers. That alone is reason enough for Shepard to visit Cronos Station and Horizon. And you can't tell me the freaking REAPERS needed the Illusive Man to clue them into the nature of the Catalyst. They're smart--they can figure it out themselves once the Crucible starts heading for the Citadel. Boom. Plot stays more or less the same, Thane is still alive.
Thane isn't a character essential to the main plot. (I'm sorry, fellow Thane fans, but it's true.) He doesn't have the plot significance of, say, Anderson. Or Joker. It doesn't make a huge difference to the plot whether he lives or dies. So why the hell not have him live and make a small but significant portion of the fans a lot happier?
Blueprotoss wrote...
Thane is actually a significant character just like everyone that has been on board the Normandy and saving the Salarian Councilor is pretty significant but its not as important as Mordin's, Legion's, or Miranda's role.
Blueprotoss wrote...
ME wold have to be rewritten as a series to save Thane.
Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:22 .
Ironically you could say this about every character based on how you didn't import data from ME1 and ME2. The samething happens in ME2 with a default game.Sable Rhapsody wrote...
OK. If Thane's such a plot-significant character, how come the plot goes EXACTLY as planned in a default ME3 game where he's dead? And if saving the salarian councilor is so significant, why does it have zero effect on the plot other than some war assets? The whole lot of characters involved in the Cerberus coup plot could be either dead or alive, and it would make no difference in ME3.
ME would have to be rewritten t live based on how the Drell wold have to be discovered earlier so treatments could be established around the time of Thane living, but the choice would still be up to Thane's character since he can still deny.Sable Rhapsody wrote...
And here's where I think you either aren't being serious or you're trolling. Yes, all of the events of Mass Effect 1, Mass Effect 2, and Mass Effect 3 get completely tossed out the window for Thane to live, including plot events completely unrelated to his existence in ME1. And we'll throw in some Princess Luna pony magic while we're at it
Blueprotoss wrote...
ME would have to be rewritten t live based on how the Drell wold have to be discovered earlier so treatments could be established around the time of Thane living, but the choice would still be up to Thane's character since he can still deny.
Blueprotoss wrote...
Ironically you could say this about every character based on how you didn't import data from ME1 and ME2. The samething happens in ME2 with a default game.
Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 15 septembre 2012 - 08:50 .
You would need to rewrite Thane getting a "cure", which would go against whats currently established in ME.o Ventus wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
ME would have to be rewritten t live based on how the Drell wold have to be discovered earlier so treatments could be established around the time of Thane living, but the choice would still be up to Thane's character since he can still deny.
What in the entire f**k?
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? Literally nothing at all would have to be rewritten for Thane to be able to survive. You can keep the death scene as is, just add a survival scene.
Everone has their own role but they don't conflict whats in the ME universe.Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
Ironically you could say this about every character based on how you didn't import data from ME1 and ME2. The samething happens in ME2 with a default game.
No. Liara, Joker, Anderson, Hackett, Shepard him/herself, Benezia, Shiala, Vigil, the Illusive Man, Miranda (at least in ME2), Saren, Nihlus, EDI, and Harbinger all have unique roles in the plot. You couldn't change those characters' plots too significantly without changing the main plot. But everyone else? Extraneous to the main plot, and most of them can survive ME3 depending on player choices. So why not Thane?
I think the sticking point is that as far as you're concerned, any change to the existing ME canon, no matter how trivial, has repercussions for the plot. That's not the case in most fiction. No one cares why Lando's the only black guy in the original trilogy. Even Han and Leia getting together doesn't drastically impact the main plot of Star Wars. Elements non-essential to the main plot can be changed, and changed significantly. So let's say the timeline stands, and the hanar just get off their lazy jelly asses a little sooner to work out a cure for Kepral's. The Reapers still invade, the stupid starbrat still exists, every element of the plot still works.
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 17 septembre 2012 - 03:12 .
Blueprotoss wrote...
krukow wrote...
Hey Blueprotoss? You won. Thane's dead and he's not coming back.
I don't see why you feel the need to keep arguing in here. You've been doing it for weeks.
You won. It's over. Let it be.I'm allowed here to have a discussion just like anyone else.wildannie wrote...
I get you're sentiment but I doubt Blueprotoss will every truely win in anything.
But terminal diseases aren't just "diagnosis and then inevitable death". People get TREATMENT. And then they have the potential for longer lives. You mention AIDS. Sure, it's a terminal disease. But my husband's uncle has been living with AIDS for nearly 30 YEARS. He gets regular treatment, takes medicine daily, and he's survived. According to you, he should have died immediately after he contracted the disease and done nothing to prolong his life. But he's still going strong. Danced at my wedding 6 years ago. Visited me in the hospital when my son was born a year ago. Ate cake at my son's birthday party a month ago.The writers gave Thane a terminal illness from which it was stated there is no cure. Not a single Drell has ever survived Kepral's Syndrome. The writers than having Thane survive would be like writing a book where one of the characters is dying from AIDS, and at the very end of the book that character survives when a cure for the disease is found. Miraculous @ss pulls do not make for compelling stories.
Also, Thane's terminal illness was not sprung on the player in Mass Effect 3. One of the first things Thane says to Shepard in Mass Effect 2, is "I'm dying." It should have come as a suprise to no one that Thane would die from his disease.
Then have it happen in the epilogue. At least then we might've had the chance for some actual CONTENT from him than "Oh hi. Still sick. Wanna talk? Too bad, I'm sick. Did I mention I'm sick?"Once the Kepral's Syndrome reveal was dropped there was no where to go with Thane except to have him die at some point from that disease. If it didn't happen in Mass Effect 3, it would happen in the epilogue.
Yet the brick wall would be a couple "fans" making unreasonable demands. If you really cared then you would be trying to figure on how to create a mod for Thane to live based on your personal beliefs.LanceSolous13 wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
krukow wrote...
Hey Blueprotoss? You won. Thane's dead and he's not coming back.
I don't see why you feel the need to keep arguing in here. You've been doing it for weeks.
You won. It's over. Let it be.I'm allowed here to have a discussion just like anyone else.wildannie wrote...
I get you're sentiment but I doubt Blueprotoss will every truely win in anything.
Discussion =/= Being worse than a brick wall
To be fair life its a terminal illness in its self while there's still no "cure" for major diseases like HIV, Cancer, Downs, Sickle Cell, and Cystic Fibrosis to name a few.Bluecansam wrote...
But terminal diseases aren't just "diagnosis and then inevitable death". People get TREATMENT. And then they have the potential for longer lives. You mention AIDS. Sure, it's a terminal disease. But my husband's uncle has been living with AIDS for nearly 30 YEARS. He gets regular treatment, takes medicine daily, and he's survived. According to you, he should have died immediately after he contracted the disease and done nothing to prolong his life. But he's still going strong. Danced at my wedding 6 years ago. Visited me in the hospital when my son was born a year ago. Ate cake at my son's birthday party a month ago.
Characters do change but tmost of them don't drastically change their whole outlook. You seem t forget that Tali does remove her suit without deing in parts of ME2/ME3 and Ashley mostly gets over her xenophobia in ME1. The problem here is that Tali and Ashly didn't contradict their established characters but your asking Thane to contradict his characters.Bluecansam wrote...
Circumstances change in stories. Jack hates people in ME2. Should she have stayed that way just because that's how she was when you meet her? Ashley is xenophobic when you meet her. Should she stay racist forever, or can that status change? If you want something physical, Tali couldn't leave her suit. She'd die of 1000 infections if she did. Now they expect the quarians to be able to live suitfree in a few years. Just because something is true at the beginning of a story doesn't mean it should remain that way.
Either way there's really no cure for Kepral's Syndrome in ME's universe just like there's no cure for Sickle Cell and/or Cysti Fibrosis in real life.Bluecansam wrote...
Then have it happen in the epilogue. At least then we might've had the chance for some actual CONTENT from him than "Oh hi. Still sick. Wanna talk? Too bad, I'm sick. Did I mention I'm sick?"
Modifié par Blueprotoss, 30 septembre 2012 - 11:58 .
Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet the brick wall would be a couple "fans" making unreasonable demands. If you really cared then you would be trying to figure on how to create a mod for Thane to live based on your personal beliefs.
Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 01 octobre 2012 - 08:16 .
Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet the brick wall would be a couple "fans" making unreasonable demands. If you really cared then you would be trying to figure on how to create a mod for Thane to live based on your personal beliefs.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to modding Unreal Engine games. Even Texmod, which is about the closest thing we have, is riddled with bugs and takes up ridiculous amounts of RAM.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for fair treatment of love interests, considering the amount of emotion and time people invest in them. BioWare retcons stuff all the time for the sake of convenience, mechanics, plot, crappy IGN reporters, etc. And usually doesn't bother trying to justify it with lore. Why not retcon for the sake of fairness?
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