1198 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

Well said Serenade!

This new troll is a perfect example of the selfish ignorant forum troll we meet. He can't cite a single line of in game dialog but insists we don't know the character and he does. He sees Thane's story as something he likes and want to force everyone else to have the same story. He has no interest to read in game dialog and the many Bioware annoucements and support of a cure for Thane. He has simply no interest whatsoever in anything that is not the story he made up in his head, yet he wants me and you and any other player to treat his view as law. Why ? Beacuse.. shut up, that's why!

Please. You are the one who should put up or shut up. If you can't backup your claims, then don't make them. Don't claim them as fact. You are perfectly within your right to make up your own story for all the characters in your game. Just stop trying to force your view down my throat.  Stop trying to tell me how to play my game. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:18 .

[Bluecansam]

Serenade22 wrote...

First of all,
@bluecansam, you did a wonderful essay. I agree with you in every word, good job.

Thanks, Serenade! I put a lot of thought into it.

You are happy with Thane in ME3. Ok, I'm happy for you. You have your choice. Now I want MINE.

I agree with everything you said in your post, but it all boils down to this. So much this.

[Twilight_Princess]

*reads serenade's post*

http://thesecularity...ile.php?id=7457

I just had to quote this

Serenade22 wrote...

- Random-Thanemancer: I want to save Thane. He is the only LI with a forced death.
- Random-BSN-User: You knew he was dying
- Random-Thanemancer: Yes, I knew, but Bioware gave me hope: (insert here long explanations of lung transplant, hanar medigel, eupulmos device, cure thane campaign supported by Bioware, etc). Also, Thane acts like if I never romanced him, my Shep says she is there for Kaidan, no one remembers him, there is not romance achievement, same scenes for romanced and not romanced, etc, etc.
- Random-BSN-User: *Ignores all the explanations* Thane's story is very well done, he died like hero.
- Random-Thanemancer: Did you read my reasons? I'ts not only his death.
- Random-BSN-User: I didn't romance him, and I never talked with him, but I'm sure you are wrong. I don't want you to change my game, my super-epic death of a character I never cared about!!!
- Random-Thanemancer: But we don't want to change YOUR game, we want a OPTION to save him in our playtroughs, only for romanced or loyal. And if you don't like the new option, don't use it and your game will be the same.
- Random-BSN-User: Save him? But... You knew he was dying!!!
- Random-Thanemancer: Really? Again?!
- Random-BSN-User: Errr... Thane is boring, no one cares about him anyway. He is dead so deal with it.
- Random-Thanemancer: *facepalm*.

I think we can say that is every Thane related thread ever.

[Bluecansam]

grey_wind wrote...

I agree with all your points OP. Thane's friendship path was one of my favourites in ME2, and I found his romance path to have been the best written for FemShep in the entire trilogy (and I'm a dude).
His treatment in ME3 as a character was abominable (even compared to the other ME2 characters who were treated like crap). While there was a lot of potential to his character, I don't think we'll ever have a chance to see it. Him actually living through Kepral's could have been a goldmine for a talented writer who wanted to explore that issue.

Thank you so much for your support! It's really very unfortunate, because yes, Thane did have a lot of potential for his character. There's so much that could have been done with his story beyond "you're dying and now you're dead".

[Tashash]

Addenedum to Serenade's post.

Do you go into the Tali threads and tell them to put up with Tali's face?
Do you go into the Miranda threads and tell them she should have died and that they shouldn't ask for a Find Miranda DLC?
Do you go into the Jacob threads and tell them changing his 'romance' would ruin the game?
Do you go into the Kelly threads and tell them that their LI was cut because she wasn't popular enough?

I could go on and on and on. Everyone seems to want something more for their LI, and yet what WE are asking for is stupid/selfish/annoying/deluded etc.

Come off it. We want equality with the other romances, and we aren't breaking any rules by asking for it. What we want has no effect on how you play your game, so why are you so against us asking for what we want?

How does it hurt you? Why do you all feel the need to come here and spout regurgitated tripe? I am truely baffled as to your reasons.

[Renmiri1]

Talking about Female fan treatment...

[Bluecansam]

Pitznik wrote...

Why you say his life expectancy was retconned? Either his condition simply got worse, or his ME2 doctors were wrong. Life expectancy is just an educated guess, people don't have a timer inside showing 15 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hourse and 17 minutes do death.

I get that it's an educated guess, but not only did the timeline change, but the change wasn't mentioned. The writers could have simply added something like:

Shepard: What happened? I thought you would still be healthy for several more months.
Thane: My doctors did not foresee this complication arising. It is unfortunate, but my disease has progressed much faster than originally anticipated.

Then it's not a retcon, it's a change. Since they didn't mention it, however, it's like trying to cover it up, like this was how it always was. This happens all the time in television too. They change something major, don't mention it, it's a retcon. Also, Dr. Chakwas' report in LotSB said he was really quite healthy despite his illness. That was around 9 months ago, when Thane supposedly had only 3 months to live according to Random Doctor. Dr. Chakwas is supposed to be an amazing doctor, and she knows Thane well. You mean to tell me she missed the fact that Thane was about to kick the bucket? Highly unlikely.

I agree with many of your points, except for the possibility of the cure - it shouldn't be possible, for dramatic reasons, just like Javik shouldn't happen, just like refusal should always end with deafeat.

Like I said, I think a "cure" is perhaps a little unreasonable to expect, but treatment certainly isn't. With treatment, he could prolong his life by years. It's not a possibility, it's fact, because there are treatments TODAY for the disease Kepral's was based on that can prolong a patient's life. I don't mind a little drama, but I expect good drama out of BioWare. Thane's death should be more than just a convenient plot device.

Modifié par Bluecansam, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:05 .

[Renmiri1]

Aerith's death in FF7 was followed by much mourning of her and no one tries to jump into Cloud's pants 5 seconds later, unlike Liara, Allers, Tali... Tifa waits and respects his grief. And Advent Children had Aerith again, telling Cloud to move on. It was definitely a senseless death, but it was well done and the character had the entire extent of the game and the sequel to be remembered and mourned.

And it proves my point. Death of a beloved character to make "brooding hero brood some moar" has been done a gazillion times. Done much better. It is a tired overused cliche and Thane's writer managed to flunk on even this. Even writing a cliche done to  death he failed. He forgot the buildup - why we should mourn that character - and the post death mourning.  If he was a student I would bet he wrote his essay on Thane just the night before the test. And got an F. A well deserved F.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:19 .

[Ryzaki]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Talking about Female fan treatment...

Well she has twice as many gay options as MShep at least? 

[Renmiri1]

Ryzaki wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Talking about Female fan treatment...

Well she has twice as many gay options as MShep at least? 

And you think this is because

a) Bioware supports gay rights

Bioware is aware teenage fanboys love girl on girl action

You can clearly see how much Bioware supports gay rights for Male Shep. Female Shep is on ME3 for fanservice. It wasn't that way on ME2.

[Twilight_Princess]

Squeegee83 wrote...

Ugh, does anyone else want to step up to the plate and try to tell off an entire fan base? <_< I'm still waiting on the troll's response. I may turn 90 by the time that happens.

I have my bingo card ready! I've nearly made a line!

[Lee80]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Talking about Female fan treatment...

So if you picked to save Ash, and didn't romance Garrus in 2, your fem shep has no straight options at all.  Wow, that's pretty lame.  I don't play the fem shep, so I was unaware.  Not cool.  Maybe there will be some DLC full team mates that are male love interests (preferably for both sheps).  

[RShara]

Late to the party, loves sorry!

To the troll: Seriously, have you played Thane's story arc at all? Your argument goes from, "Well he was at peace with his death" to "People die" to "Stop focusing on the assassin" to I don't even know what else.

If it's too much trouble to actually youtube his conversations, here are a screenshots for the reading impaired.
Thane is NOT AT PEACE WITH HIS DEATH


Galaxy class assasin right? Why is he HESITATING?


Because Shepard is great at playing bystander:


This image speaks for itself


Oh and THROW DOESN'T WORK ON SHIELDS/ARMOR SO HIS SHIELDS ARE DOWN RIGHT HERE



Also

Yeah, I wasn't in charge of Thane, but I see Thane's death situation as one of those things that's the drawback of a large writing team. Lots of followers talk about the Citadel Event in terms of what happens with the VS, but because Thane was optional, it didn't click with any of us that the player could also have just lost a friend or loved one THERE as well. That was a dropped ball on our end.

- Patrick Weekes.

Also, this is from before he romanced Shepard.


And finally a very eloquent summary from a good friend of mine

Lucky Thirteen wrote...
I feel like the death trivialized Thane. Made him pointless, his only purpose was to die and provide another shock value scene to make people cry. Even then, if you don't have him, another NPC can replace him. That NPC actually gives Shepard War Assets and has a higher level of importance over Thane. Thane's importance is a death scene. He's not even listed as a character in the game's guide. He isn't vital at all and I don't understand why they bothered to bring him back. They might as well have saved themselves the trouble of figuring out how to get his body into a bed, wearing the same cloths from ME2, and had a random NPC try to help Shepard.

Even before the game came out, I said that if he had to die, I'd want him to go out with a bang, but I didn't mean for that to be all. I expected it to be much later in the game, after he had a well laid out story in the game. They wanted a tragic death, fine, but it's not great story telling if you made a character only to die in a cool way. Tragic stories are tragic because people were living before, not sitting and waiting to die with a smile on their face. It's almost demented really

Modifié par RShara, 15 juillet 2012 - 10:19 .

[lillitheris]

0. The Leng stuff was probably the single worst thing about ME3 apart from, you know. That’s a given, and there was no need for the stupid sword fight death.

1. Thane was terminally ill. I do think it a little cheap if he simply got cured — in the context of the game itself.

2. There needed to be some type of a goodbye scene for those who wanted to end the Thane arc in the game, and get closure that way.

3. …However, that doesn’t mean that Thane needed to die. He could have, for example, been shipped (or decided to go himself) to some sanatorium to make room for more acute cases on the Citadel. The goodbyes could simply have been in this context. Almost certain that they’ll never see again, but with a promise to try if/when the war is over.

4. This leaves the situation open at the end of the game, allowing you to headcanon it easily even so that he ultimately got cured, or for fanfic to do do whatever with it.

I’ll say by way of disclaimer that Thane did not, in fact, get killed by Leng in my “Unity” (see sig), so I may be slightly partial.

Modifié par lillitheris, 15 juillet 2012 - 07:39 .

[wildannie]

Great OP bluecansam and great responses from everyone dealing with trolls... I don't think I need to add anything as it has all been covered so well .

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Holy wowser, he's dead, deal with it. Bioware wanted him to die as part of the story ("I'm dying" was one of the first things you heard him say back in ME2), and he did, end of discussion. He had a beautiful death scene with Shepard and his son by his side the entire time. You knew he was sick. You knew the chance for a cure was slim. And yet, you're acting all sad and surprised now that he actually is dead.

Not everything ends on a happy note. That's life.

[BSpud]

Hyrule_Gal wrote...

Squeegee83 wrote...

Ugh, does anyone else want to step up to the plate and try to tell off an entire fan base? <_< I'm still waiting on the troll's response. I may turn 90 by the time that happens.

I have my bingo card ready! I've nearly made a line!

I'll save Bluprosoto the trouble of writing and you the time of waiting by telling you what it'll likely* say :

"This is pot calling the black kettle straw-mann. I could careless. Your wrong. Banana boat. Also, shoe."


*with 99.5% accuracy

[Pitznik]

Bluecansam wrote...

Like I said, I think a "cure" is perhaps a little unreasonable to expect, but treatment certainly isn't. With treatment, he could prolong his life by years. It's not a possibility, it's fact, because there are treatments TODAY for the disease Kepral's was based on that can prolong a patient's life. I don't mind a little drama, but I expect good drama out of BioWare. Thane's death should be more than just a convenient plot device.

I guess that would be reasonable and wouldn't destroy his story. It's a shame that DLC based around LI who is absent from many playthroughs (and from default playthrough as well) is unlikely, Bioware kind of made themselves into a dead end on this one :/

[RShara]

Don't feed the troll. Looking at the person's sig, he or she will not be open to any changes to the storyline at all.

[jahaa]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Bioware is aware teenage fanboys love girl on girl action

You can clearly see how much Bioware supports gay rights for Male Shep. Female Shep is on ME3 for fanservice. It wasn't that way on ME2.

Yes, because a melancolic sexy assassin with a sad story behind isn't fan service and marketing at all. Right. Not.
And honestly, the only teenage behavior is see is in your Thane threads. You can mourn Thane without bashing the rest of characters or game audience with other preferences, did you know it?

[RShara]

Um, excuse me, who woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

Did you see this?




Also, the only time someone spoke disparagingly of another character (EDI), the person apologized.

We're asking for fair treatment of ALL LI's, we're not asking for ANYTHING to be taken away from anyone.

But it's just a LITTLE bit difficult not to be bitter when we see all the loving attention slathered over Liara, and all the female LI options, and when the lesbian options even outnumber the straight ones, y'know?

Try to use a bit of empathy. It's good for you.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Thane wasn't scrapped as a LI. Stop making things up.

[wildannie]

jahaa wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Bioware is aware teenage fanboys love girl on girl action

You can clearly see how much Bioware supports gay rights for Male Shep. Female Shep is on ME3 for fanservice. It wasn't that way on ME2.

Yes, because a melancolic sexy assassin with a sad story behind isn't fan service and marketing at all. Right. Not.
And honestly, the only teenage behavior is see is in your Thane threads. You can mourn Thane without bashing the rest of characters or game audience with other preferences, did you know it?

We know that Thane *was* fanservice, he was designed as a LI to appeal to female fans and it worked  in ME3 he was designed to appeal to those fans who didn't romance him  The romance content was juvenile and an afterthought and a million miles away from the tone set in ME2.  I'm not mourning Thane, I am mourning the poor treatment of a section of the fanbase (largely female) through Thane, I am mourning the 100s of hours I spent playing ME1 and 2, only to have some cruicial choices not represented in the 3rd game.  I am mourning the fact that I can't trust BW to provide even an attempt at equal treatment.

[jahaa]

I'm not against Thane. I like him. But i'm tired of character bashing for no reason. Well, there is a reason: jealousy.