1198 réponses à ce sujet

[BeanieBat]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Thane wasn't scrapped as a LI. Stop making things up.

He didn't unlock the Paramour achievement in ME3.  I think that implies he was scrapped.  

[RShara]

1. You don't even get a side mission with him
2. He dies
3. No Paramour
4. Pushes Shepard toward Kaidan if he is the VS
5. Shepard tells Thane that she's there to see the VS
6. Shepard tells Kaidan (if he's the VS and romanced) "I'm sorry" if Kaidan accuses her of being unfaithful.

[Mydknightcloud]

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I read the first post and the main point I agree with is that Thane was already cheapened and trivialized in ME3 (but hey at least he got treated better than Morinth). The thing with him getting stabbed was badly executed (could have worked if it was done better) and there really needed to be a scene where one of Shep's squadmates (probably Garrus or Liara) would try to comfort Shep after Thane's death.

I still think a cure would be bad storytelling (ME3 had enough bad storytelling with the ending so we didn't need more) it was established he was dying. Yes there were hints that he could get a treatment to prolong his life but I never got the impression it was a cure. Not to say there shouldn't have been a conversation about it. In ME2 Thane didn't want any treatment and he had accepted the fact he was dying. But then he starts a relationship with Shep and has a new reason to want to live. So there really should have been a conversation about getting treatment, even if it was just to tell us that his illness had progressed too far for a treatment to be possible or that he still didn't want treatment (maybe it would prolong his life but give him a lower quality of life so he'd rather go quicker).

You may be able to argue that a cure is possible without it being miraculous but I think that's missing the point. The sci-fi and fantasy genre often use fictional things as a metaphor for real world things, so that the writers can make a point about one thing without explicitly saying it (for example Willow's magic addiction in season 6 of Buffy or Dax's taboo relationship in DS9's episode Rejoined). Kepral's Syndrome mirrors real life terminal diseases and is being used to tell the story of someone being terminally ill. So for me it would cheapen the story, it doesn't matter that it's not a real terminal illness because that's still what it represents.

Thane did have a few nice moments in ME3. I actually liked it when Shep wants to go find some blood for him (or whatever it was). She feels helpless and wants to do something. Shepard is this big goddamn hero but now that someone she cares for is dying there's nothing she can do. It shows her vulnerable side and reminds us that Shepard is only human. I also liked the scene with the prayer for Shepard, very sad. No-one mentioning his death after did kind of spoil it but I just headcanon that.

[wildannie]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

I read the first post and the main point I agree with is that Thane was already cheapened and trivialized in ME3 (but hey at least he got treated better than Morinth). The thing with him getting stabbed was badly executed (could have worked if it was done better) and there really needed to be a scene where one of Shep's squadmates (probably Garrus or Liara) would try to comfort Shep after Thane's death.

I still think a cure would be bad storytelling (ME3 had enough bad storytelling with the ending so we didn't need more) it was established he was dying. Yes there were hints that he could get a treatment to prolong his life but I never got the impression it was a cure. Not to say there shouldn't have been a conversation about it. In ME2 Thane didn't want any treatment and he had accepted the fact he was dying. But then he starts a relationship with Shep and has a new reason to want to live. So there really should have been a conversation about getting treatment, even if it was just to tell us that his illness had progressed too far for a treatment to be possible or that he still didn't want treatment (maybe it would prolong his life but give him a lower quality of life so he'd rather go quicker).

You may be able to argue that a cure is possible without it being miraculous but I think that's missing the point. The sci-fi and fantasy genre often use fictional things as a metaphor for real world things, so that the writers can make a point about one thing without explicitly saying it (for example Willow's magic addiction in season 6 of Buffy or Dax's taboo relationship in DS9's episode Rejoined). Kepral's Syndrome mirrors real life terminal diseases and is being used to tell the story of someone being terminally ill. So for me it would cheapen the story, it doesn't matter that it's not a real terminal illness because that's still what it represents.

Thane did have a few nice moments in ME3. I actually liked it when Shep wants to go find some blood for him (or whatever it was). She feels helpless and wants to do something. Shepard is this big goddamn hero but now that someone she cares for is dying there's nothing she can do. It shows her vulnerable side and reminds us that Shepard is only human. I also liked the scene with the prayer for Shepard, very sad. No-one mentioning his death after did kind of spoil it but I just headcanon that.

Good post, and I appreciate your view even though I don't wholly share your viewpoint.  Regarding the bolded paragraph,  using fictional things as metaphors is fine, but making potentially central characters deliver these metaphors in a role playing game was, IMO a mistake.  Having some variety in the fate of Thane based on past choices would have been in keeping with the ME series  and the expectations of the fanbase.  Not necessarily a cure, but the chance of life extention to the end of the game.

It is not only terminally ill people who die,  it can just as easily be argued that having Liara die with no chance to save her would have been realistic, in fact I would argue that it would be *more* realistic because tragedy often blindsides you, but they would never have dared do this because she has the largest fanbase. 

Edit: just to be clear, I certainly don't wish that they had done this to Liara, it is just an example.^

Was Jacob cheating on shepard included as another touching point to real life? or was it just an easy way to save on production costs?  I think it was the latter, and I also think this was the reason behind Thane's abysmal treatment in ME3. 

Modifié par wildannie, 15 juillet 2012 - 02:20 .

[Xilizhra]

While I'm not personally a Thanemancer, I didn't find his death to be all that impressive and I can't say anything about the romance quality, so I'll support you on this matter.

[Bluecansam]

Thanks, Sarcastic Tasha, for actually reading the essay and staying on topic. Much appreciated.

Like I said, while some Thane supporters may have wished for a cure, we didn't really expect a cure per se. What we did expect, because it was mentioned in-game, in other media, and becaue of existing treatments, that he would have options to extend his life. Now, if they had addressed the treatments in-game with Thane saying he didn't want the treatments due to, as you say, a reduced quality of life, I think that might have been satisfactory for most people, especially if he was also trated as a full character and romance option - dialogue about things other than his illness, romance content, paramour achievement, etc. It's strange and quite suspect that any explanation is missing.

It's a bit of a poor allegory if the terminal illness just represents itself. I mean, in your two examples, the fantasy or sci fi aspects represents something else. Magic equals drugs, past life together equals lesbianism. But here, terminal illness is just terminal illness. And poorly executed terminal illness. I've seen elsewhere online that people with actual Cystic Fibrosis, the disease Kepral's was based upon, are really angry at how their disease was portrayed in ME3 because it makes it seem like Thane was worthless because he was sick. How many times did he tell Shepard stuff like, "I'm sorry you have to see me this way, I'm sorry I can't be of more use to you"? The message BioWare sends through Thane isn't an honorable or empowering one. They're saying that people who are ill or disabled should be ashamed of themselves and apologize to their loved ones for burdening them. That their lives are worth nothing, so they might as well throw them away at the first opportunity. And that's really pretty despicable, in my opinion.

I think if they actually SHOWED Shepard feeling helpless or vulnerable, it might have worked, if that was indeed what they were going for. Instead, she shows very little emotion during Thane's death scene and then none at all after he's dead. Instead, the player is forced to head-canon it, and it's simply bad storytelling if the audience/reader/player has to make up what happened in their heads.

[Bluecansam]

Xilizhra wrote...

While I'm not personally a Thanemancer, I didn't find his death to be all that impressive and I can't say anything about the romance quality, so I'll support you on this matter.

Thank you! We really appreciate your support!

[Hisilome]

RShara wrote...

1. You don't even get a side mission with him
2. He dies
3. No Paramour
4. Pushes Shepard toward Kaidan if he is the VS
5. Shepard tells Thane that she's there to see the VS
6. Shepard tells Kaidan (if he's the VS and romanced) "I'm sorry" if Kaidan accuses her of being unfaithful.

Adding to that that, if Kaiden is dead, Shepard is propelled to 'romantic' interaction with both Traynor and the reporter, as well as random flirting with Vega without the player having any choice in the matter.

Noone even mentions Thane after he dies, whereas every other char who dies gets at least one conversation about it afterwards.

Kai Leng? Cheap, transparent plot device to justify injuring Thane, nothing more and that duel was so badly orchestrated at some points, you just had to wonder at times!

I would like a cure for Thane, yes, miracle or not, I admit. He was handled very poorly in ME3, the romance aspect, at least and, since ME is a game about choices, I'd like to be able to have a choice as to how the story might play out there, especially since prior to ME3, BW had dropped ample hints about a cure being possible.

I'd like his story to be re-written, so to speak, since, cure aside, I found it written badly, at the very least. There were some nice moments, to be sure, like the prayer and Shepard yelling at the doctors at Huerta to tell her where she could get some blood for Thane; those possessed emotional impact, yes, and were beautifully written, but the story as a whole just felt discordant.*points to quoted and more points above*

PS: Forgot to say, the essay is amazing, Bluecansam!

Modifié par Hisilome, 15 juillet 2012 - 01:14 .

[Xilizhra]

Bluecansam wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

While I'm not personally a Thanemancer, I didn't find his death to be all that impressive and I can't say anything about the romance quality, so I'll support you on this matter.

Thank you! We really appreciate your support!

My pleasure.

In any case, the romances are a major appeal of the game for me, I admit, and so long as no one's trying to reduce the amount of content Liara has, I'm completely behind giving them more space/making them more enjoyable.

[Bluecansam]

Pitznik wrote…
I guess that would be reasonable and wouldn't destroy his story. It's a shame that DLC based around LI who is absent from many playthroughs (and from default playthrough as well) is unlikely, Bioware kind of made themselves into a dead end on this one :/

Yeah, I have little hope that any, much less all, of our grievances would be remedied by BioWare, but you never know. I'd be happy if they acknowledged that something went terribly wrong with Thane's character in ME3, at the very least.

[Ryzaki]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

Talking about Female fan treatment...

Well she has twice as many gay options as MShep at least? 

And you think this is because

a) Bioware supports gay rights

Bioware is aware teenage fanboys love girl on girl action

You can clearly see how much Bioware supports gay rights for Male Shep. Female Shep is on ME3 for fanservice. It wasn't that way on ME2.

Ugh. No it was a joke hence the laughing smiley. Lighten up.

And MShep's gay options aren't really that great. Cortez's romance scene is laughably bad and Kaidan's pretty much a short version of the FemShep romance.

Both GayMshep and Straight FemShep got the short end of the stick.

[Blueprotoss]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

I read the first post and the main point I agree with is that Thane was already cheapened and trivialized in ME3 (but hey at least he got treated better than Morinth). The thing with him getting stabbed was badly executed (could have worked if it was done better) and there really needed to be a scene where one of Shep's squadmates (probably Garrus or Liara) would try to comfort Shep after Thane's death.

I still think a cure would be bad storytelling (ME3 had enough bad storytelling with the ending so we didn't need more) it was established he was dying. Yes there were hints that he could get a treatment to prolong his life but I never got the impression it was a cure. Not to say there shouldn't have been a conversation about it. In ME2 Thane didn't want any treatment and he had accepted the fact he was dying. But then he starts a relationship with Shep and has a new reason to want to live. So there really should have been a conversation about getting treatment, even if it was just to tell us that his illness had progressed too far for a treatment to be possible or that he still didn't want treatment (maybe it would prolong his life but give him a lower quality of life so he'd rather go quicker).

You may be able to argue that a cure is possible without it being miraculous but I think that's missing point. The sci-fi and fantasy genre often use fictional things as a metaphor for real world things, so that the writers can make a point about one thing without explicitly saying it (for example Willow's magic addiction in season 6 of Buffy or Dax's taboo relationship in DS9's episode Rejoined). Kepral's Syndrome mirrors real life terminal diseases and is being used to tell the story of someone being terminally ill. So for me it would cheapen the story, it doesn't matter that it's not a real terminal illness because that's still what it represents.

Thane did have a few nice moments in ME3. I actually liked it when Shep wants to go find some blood for him (or whatever it was). She feels helpless and wants to do something. Shepard is this big goddamn hero but now that someone she cares for is dying there's nothing she can do. It shows her vulnerable side and reminds us that Shepard is only human. I also liked the scene with the prayer for Shepard, very sad. No-one mentioning his death after did kind of spoil it but I just headcanon that.

I mostly agree with you based on terminal illness and Thane's character, but you should get ready to receive a lot bias from the 3-4 Thane "fans" because its their way or the highway even when the facts are against them.  Personally I loved the addition of mortality in characters whether I hated Mordin and Miranda in ME2 then later liked them in ME3 or enjoying both Thane and Legion during their progression throghout the series.  Everyone has a terminal illness life while you can't escape that as an organic, a synthetic, or a cyborg.  Once you know that then you should have a better appreciation for specific chracters other then the freak out alturnative that some people resort to.

wildannie wrote...

Was Jacob cheating on shepard included as another touching point to real life? or was it just an easy way to save on production costs?  I think it was the latter, and I also think this was the reason behind Thane's abysmal treatment in ME3. 

Its pretty much opinion on whether the ME2 characters got a good treatment in ME3 while Thane and Grunt got the best treatment for their characterization. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:00 .

[wildannie]

Blueprotoss wrote...

wildannie wrote...

Was Jacob cheating on shepard included as another touching point to real life? or was it just an easy way to save on production costs?  I think it was the latter, and I also think this was the reason behind Thane's abysmal treatment in ME3. 

Its pretty much opinion on whether the ME2 characters got a good treatment in ME3 while Thane and Grunt got the best treatment for their characterization. 

No, no it isn't opinion, there are HARD FACTS that point towards the poor treatment of Thane and Jacob

In ME3

Miranda - depending on choices she lives or dies, if she lives there's more content
Jack - depending upon choices she lives or dies, if she lives there's more content
Jacob - doesn't matter what you do he cheats on shepard if romanced (so BW didn't have to bother with romance specific content)
Thane - doesn't matter what you do, he dies, there's no more content acknowledging his life, Shepards loss.  Rather the game demeans his death further by having every romanceable character throwing themselves at shepard right afterwards.

Even the non LIs characters largely have an element of choice in their outcome.

I believe we have already established that you have a very limited understanding of Thane's story arc in ME2 and how it might have reasonably been expected to progress so I'll say no more on your assessment of good treatment for characterisation in ME3^_^

[Blueprotoss]

wildannie wrote...

No, no it isn't opinion, there are HARD FACTS that point towards the poor treatment of Thane and Jacob

In ME3

Miranda - depending on choices she lives or dies, if she lives there's more content
Jack - depending upon choices she lives or dies, if she lives there's more content
Jacob - doesn't matter what you do he cheats on shepard if romanced (so BW didn't have to bother with romance specific content)
Thane - doesn't matter what you do, he dies, there's no more content acknowledging his life, Shepards loss.  Rather the game demeans his death further by having every romanceable character throwing themselves at shepard right afterwards.

Even the non LIs characters largely have an element of choice in their outcome.

I believe we have already established that you have a very limited understanding of Thane's story arc in ME2 and how it might have reasonably been expected to progress so I'll say no more on your assessment of good treatment for characterisation in ME3^_^

Jacob was a bad character to begin with while Thane evolved over time through out the series like most of the ME characters including Liara and Garrus.  You can easily have an opinion, but its not good to have a biased one. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .

[Renmiri1]

Blueprotoss wrote...

[ snip ]

Jacob was a bad character to begin with while Thane evolved over time through out the series like most of the ME characters including Liara and Garrus.  You can easily have an opinion, but its not good to have a biased one. 

Why that is such an objective opinion! I love it how you just pronounce your musings as law without backing it up with any in game content. 

Once more, your headcanon for ME characters is irrelevant. You are within your right to make up stories in your head but don't expect people to follow your daydreams as game canon.

[Blueprotoss]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Why that is such an objective opinion! I love it how you just pronounce your musings as law without backing it up with any in game content.

Opinions are subjective just like how I could careless about Jacob and you wanted more from Thane.

Renmiri1 wrote... 

Once more, your headcanon for ME characters is irrelevant. You are within your right to make up stories in your head but don't expect people to follow your daydreams as game canon.

Its not irrelevant especially when there are "fans" complaining everyday on any forum whether something specific is cannon or not in any series.  Everyone is allowed to have an opinion while going against a part of the story thats set in stone is useless.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 juillet 2012 - 06:15 .

[Steel Dancer]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Agreed and its hard to take the OP serioudly based on how Thane has wanted to die since you met him in ME2.  I guess he doesn't want Thane to have a honorable death that meant something for the Galaxy.

Nope, he wasn't looking for death, he was prepared for death. Significant difference. And that state of affairs changes if he's romanced.

Blueprotoss wrote...
character that had a suitable death whether you romances/befriended him or not.

Again no. Thane was a good chracter in ME2. IN 3 he was reduced to a walking illness, nothing more, which is a rather damning trivialisation of both Thanes' character and terminal illness in general.

And as for all this "Thane had to have died, he was terminal" rubbish, answer me this: why does that mean he has to die during the course of the game?

Just think about that for a moment: Shepard can be saving the galaxy, hundreds of lives but not the one person they really want to*. Imagine how that would have altered the character and the players perspective on that: Synthesis really could cure him, Control lets Shepard use resources as they see fit (asuming they'd still care about love) while Destroy might almost certainly doom Thane, with medical resources stretched beyond breaking point. Now there's Bittersweet for you (apologies if I'm stepping on anyone's artistic integrity there...).

Another thing about that fight: It's insulting. Not just to Thane, but to Shepard and the squad too.

It says that Anyone who was there was only too happy or  - worse than that - unable to help in that fight in any way. Let's look at that: Garrus - crack shot sniper, one of the best around; Liara - powerful biotic; Javik - another powerful biotic; EDI - computer assisted reflexes and targetting; Vega - damn tough bull in a china shop. Oh and Shepard, of course, who can be any of that and more.

Do not tell me that not one of those people wouldn't have gone for KL using something, warp, stasis, overload/incinerate or weapons fire at suspected locations... just something dammit! 






*and don't say that's what happened, because it isn't - I saw none of that in the game on the Thane romance scenes I've seen in any way at all.

Modifié par Steel Dancer, 15 juillet 2012 - 06:27 .

[Renmiri1]

Set in stone doesn't mean what you think it means..

For starters, game dialog and game lore are what set things "in stone" or leave it open. Your headcanon does not.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

wildannie wrote...

Good post, and I appreciate your view even though I don't wholly share your viewpoint.  Regarding the bolded paragraph,  using fictional things as metaphors is fine, but making potentially central characters deliver these metaphors in a role playing game was, IMO a mistake.  Having some variety in the fate of Thane based on past choices would have been in keeping with the ME series  and the expectations of the fanbase.  Not necessarily a cure, but the chance of life extention to the end of the game.

It is not only terminally ill people who die,  it can just as easily be argued that having Liara die with no chance to save her would have been realistic, in fact I would argue that it would be *more* realistic because tragedy often blindsides you, but they would never have dared do this because she has the largest fanbase. 

Edit: just to be clear, I certainly don't wish that they had done this to Liara, it is just an example.^

Was Jacob cheating on shepard included as another touching point to real life? or was it just an easy way to save on production costs?  I think it was the latter, and I also think this was the reason behind Thane's abysmal treatment in ME3. 

I tend to agree that it would have been good if Shepard could convince Thane to get treatment if the correct requirements were met (in a similar way to how Miranda's fate is decided). He probably would have said no to my Shep since she'd got back together with Liara, but that would be cool because then I'd feel like my choices had made a difference (I'm always for choices having consequences, something that was lacking in certain parts of ME3).

Honestly I'd have been devastated if Liara (or Garrus) had a scripted death that couldn't be prevented. I probably would have cried and refused to play ME3 again so I can see how people are gutted if Thane is their favourite character.

As for the Jacob thing, that was stupid but kind of funny (I like the fact he cheated with LadyHawke). I've not tried the Jacob romance but I did see "the prize" scene on youtube which makes me think the writers didn't take Jacob seriously to begin with. I didn't find Jacob a very compelling character at all and I can't see that many people being very broken up about him cheating. It was still pretty crap though.

Bluecansam wrote...

Thanks, Sarcastic Tasha, for actually reading the essay and staying on topic. Much appreciated.

Like I said, while some Thane supporters may have wished for a cure, we didn't really expect a cure per se. What we did expect, because it was mentioned in-game, in other media, and becaue of existing treatments, that he would have options to extend his life. Now, if they had addressed the treatments in-game with Thane saying he didn't want the treatments due to, as you say, a reduced quality of life, I think that might have been satisfactory for most people, especially if he was also trated as a full character and romance option - dialogue about things other than his illness, romance content, paramour achievement, etc. It's strange and quite suspect that any explanation is missing.

It's a bit of a poor allegory if the terminal illness just represents itself. I mean, in your two examples, the fantasy or sci fi aspects represents something else. Magic equals drugs, past life together equals lesbianism. But here, terminal illness is just terminal illness. And poorly executed terminal illness. I've seen elsewhere online that people with actual Cystic Fibrosis, the disease Kepral's was based upon, are really angry at how their disease was portrayed in ME3 because it makes it seem like Thane was worthless because he was sick. How many times did he tell Shepard stuff like, "I'm sorry you have to see me this way, I'm sorry I can't be of more use to you"? The message BioWare sends through Thane isn't an honorable or empowering one. They're saying that people who are ill or disabled should be ashamed of themselves and apologize to their loved ones for burdening them. That their lives are worth nothing, so they might as well throw them away at the first opportunity. And that's really pretty despicable, in my opinion.

I think if they actually SHOWED Shepard feeling helpless or vulnerable, it might have worked, if that was indeed what they were going for. Instead, she shows very little emotion during Thane's death scene and then none at all after he's dead. Instead, the player is forced to head-canon it, and it's simply bad storytelling if the audience/reader/player has to make up what happened in their heads.

 

As I mentioned above I agree that it could have been a nice addition to Thane's story to have the possibility of convincing Thane to get treatment. But what I really would have liked is some more dialogue and a scene with Shep talking about Thane's death (I'm not saying she should spend the rest of the game crying, she knows she doesn't have the time to fall apart but something comparable to her reaction to Priority: Thessia would have been good).

Your right about my example not being perfect. I suppose Kepral's Syndrome is not so much a metaphor, it's more like they're saying it straight. But I think the point I was trying to make still stands (even if I stated it clumsily). Kepral's Syndrome may be a fictional illness where a fictional cure seems plausible but it is intended to mirror real terminal illnesses that obviously don't have cures.

I agree entirely on there not being enough Thane content, it was a real missed opportunity. Not only for Thane's character but for Shepard too. I love seeing Shepard show her vulnerable side (as I said in my previous post I thought the scene with the doctor was good but it wasn't really enough). ME3 had some great scenes that showed Shepard being frightened, angry, upset, uncertain, etc but they did bugger it up with regards to Thane.

Modifié par Sarcastic Tasha, 15 juillet 2012 - 07:03 .

[Bluecansam]

Also, with the ECDLC, I think we've established that "set in stone" game events aren't really set in stone. If there profit, marketing, or reputation gain to be had from it, BioWare will adapt the story for clarity and closure.

[Bluecansam]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

Honestly I'd have been devastated if Liara (or Garrus) had a scripted death that couldn't be prevented. I probably would have cried and refused to play ME3 again so I can see how people are gutted if Thane is their favourite character.

Thank you for having empathy towards us Thanemancers. We've tried explaining this very thing to other people - that if THEIR LI died and they couldn't do anything about it, you bet they'd be just as mad as we are - but for whatever reason, a lot of people just don't want to put themselves in someone else's shoes.

As for the Jacob thing, that was stupid but kind of funny (I like the fact he cheated with LadyHawke). I've not tried the Jacob romance but I did see "the prize" scene on youtube which makes me think the writers didn't take Jacob seriously to begin with. I didn't find Jacob a very compelling character at all and I can't see that many people being very broken up about him cheating. It was still pretty crap though.

While Jacob was not one of my favorite characters either, I still feel BioWare did Jacob a great disservice. His character deserved better than that. Also, it makes me VERY uncomfortable that the only LI to ever cheat on Shepard also happens to be the only black squadmate. Maybe they didn't mean for it to seem racist, but it feels kinda racist.

As I mentioned above I agree that it could have been a nice addition to Thane's story to have the possibility of convincing Thane to get treatment. But what I really would have liked is some more dialogue and a scene with Shep talking about Thane's death (I'm not saying she should spend the rest of the game crying, she knows she doesn't have the time to fall apart but something comparable to her reaction to Priority: Thessia would have been good).

Yes, I agree. I don't think it's in character for her to be weeping openly to her friends, but I don't feel it was too much to ask for her to shed a few tears for the man she loved at his deathbed. And it would have been good to see her visibly affected by his death afterward, as you say, like her reaction to Thessia. I think the fan reaction to his death might have been very different if it was handled with a bit more grace and realism.

Your right about my example not being perfect. I suppose Kepral's Syndrome is not so much a metaphor, it's more like they're saying it straight. But I think the point I was trying to make still stands (even if I stated it clumsily). Kepral's Syndrome may be a fictional illness where a fictional cure seems plausible but it is intended to mirror real terminal illnesses that obviously don't have cures.

I agree entirely on there not being enough Thane content, it was a real missed opportunity. Not only for Thane's character but for Shepard too. I love seeing Shepard show her vulnerable side (as I said in my previous post I thought the scene with the doctor was good but it wasn't really enough). ME3 had some great scenes that showed Shepard being frightened, angry, upset, uncertain, etc but they did bugger it up with regards to Thane.

Yeah, I get what you're saying. But I wonder what their aim was in portraying a terminal illness in ME3. If it was to give real life terminally ill people hope or courage or whatever, they certainly failed miserably. It's had quite the opposite effect, actually. And while I get that they may have been trying to demonstrate the inevitability of death, like I said in my essay, the pressure is on the writers to take the audience/reader/player on a journey that brings them to the same conclusion - that the death was inevitable. When you openly ignore treatments and therapies just for the sake of your "message", that's railroading. Besides, even though terminal diseases don't have cures, they do have those treatments that can either extend or save the patients' lives. As in the case of cancer, there's no cure for the disease now, but look at the cancer survivors who were saved with chemotherapy and/or radiation.

[Ryzaki]

@Blue: Honestly yeah I felt it had horrible implications to. The ONLY male LI of color...and he's the only one who cheats and has baby momma drama? Really?

I gagged.

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

@Blue: Honestly yeah I felt it had horrible implications to. The ONLY male LI of color...and he's the only one who cheats and has baby momma drama? Really?

I gagged.

Wait, isn't Kaidan... um, well, I don't really know what ethnicity Kaidan is, but he didn't seem white, as such. Some variety of Eurasian, but definitely not WASP.

[Bluecansam]

Traynor isn't white either, perhaps Southeast Asian by my estimation. But Jacob is certainly the only black LI. And there's no strong precedent of baby momma / cheating stereotyping with Kaidan or Traynor's ethnicities.

But anyway... off topic. That's a WHOLE other messy discussion.

Modifié par Bluecansam, 15 juillet 2012 - 10:14 .