45 réponses à ce sujet

[Alphakiller]

okay... so arcane warrior is OP when shimmering shield doesn't deactivate.

shimmering shield now deactivates with the 1.02 fix. MY question, though, is how to fix it again so that you can once again have the wonderful OP-Ness of Arcane Warrior... Without taking advantage of a bug.

now the mana drain of shimmering shield is ridiculous... -10/tick, I believe. which means to keep the mage going, you need to have only shimmering shield and combat magic on, and no other draining perma-buffs in order to have optimal length of time.

but what if you could counteract it?

i've been trying to compile a list of equipment that could do just that.

Sword: Spellweaver/veshialle = +1 (reccomend spellweaver. axe's only advantage is strength mod... which does AW nothing)
Second hand: Fade Wall = +1
Helmet: (forgot name) = +0.5
Amulet: ?
Gloves: wade's superior dragonbone = +0.5
Boots: wade's superior dragonbone = +0.5
Armor: wade's superior dragonbone = +1
Belt: Andruil's blessing = +1
Ring1: ?
Ring2: ?
bonus: 4th AW skill - +1

party bonus: +1/+2 from song of courage

total: +7.5/+8.5

so close!
so my question, is what can you all add to this that might total/exceed the goal of +10 regen? surely this combination of armor would create the most OP without cheating build. what do you think?

EDIT: checked the wiki... my original armor had wrong stat.

also from checking the wiki... it seems there aren't any items better than the one's i've named. it seems that my idea is doomed to die right here =/

Modifié par Alphakiller, 17 décembre 2009 - 07:04 .

[Gelmirthebloody]

In terms of perma? yes.

But all you reallty need is for shimmering shield to last as long as the battle. So what you really need to look at is comparing your mana pool to 3.5/tick and see how long you can last.

[Finnegone]

For armor, I'd suggest either the Felon's Coat or Evon the Great's Mail. Both offer +2 regeneration / sec, and the latter has the advantages of higher armor and receives set bonuses when paired with Wade's Heavy Dragonbone gloves and boots (+5 defense, -20% fatigue).

[Alphakiller]

are you sure evon the great's mail is +2? I checked the wiki and it says only +1...

[Alphakiller]

lets see... if mages get 6 mana per level and a base of 115, then by the time you've reached level 14 to complete the build, you'll have 199 mana. at 3.5 mana per tick, you'll last just under 57 ticks...

how long is a tick?

[Finnegone]

On the Xbox, both Evon the Great's Mail and the Felon's Coat are +2 (as expressed in the item description). Not sure if +2 regeneration is the equivalent of one mana loss / sec.



I'd also suggest the Staff of the Magister Lords as the principal armament- it provides +4 mana regen.



That said, with EtGM, SotML, and Andruil's Blessing equipped, I've run Shimmering Shield on my AW without any noticeable mana drain over the course of a few minutes of combat.

[themaxzero]

Seems there is some differences between PC and console versions. On PC the Staff is +2 and the armours are +1.

For the OP you also get +0.5 stamina/mana regen from level 2 Combat Tactics so that should get you to +7.

Depending on you the Cunning level Leiliana can give 0.5 to 1 stamina/mana regen through her song.

Modifié par themaxzero, 17 décembre 2009 - 08:16 .

[Tiniuc]

There's also DLC content. Several of the promo items have +1 regeneration in combat.

[Alphakiller]

so if the build had leliana and (later) zevran as cunning rogue builds, with alistair as tank OR wynne as healer... the stamina regen for the entire party would be bad enough, but that can add up to an additional +2
are there any other things non-equipment that you can add to the AW to increase regen?
also, the patch 1.02 states that mana and stamina pools that are low will increase their regen rate- does anyone have a number for what percentage this kicks in, and how much increase you gain?

edit: power of blood skills also have a mana regen kick- does anybody know how much mana this restores, how much health you lose, and if making the rest of your equipment into health regen might counteract it? does the mana restored counteract the mana lost enough to keep the AW perma-buffed?

Modifié par Alphakiller, 17 décembre 2009 - 07:06 .

[themaxzero]

Sword: Spellweaver/veshialle = +1 (reccomend spellweaver. axe's only advantage is strength mod... which does AW nothing)
Second hand: Fade Wall = +1
Helmet: (forgot name) = +0.5
Amulet: ?
Gloves: wade's superior dragonbone = +0.5
Boots: wade's superior dragonbone = +0.5
Armor: wade's superior dragonbone = +1
Belt: Andruil's blessing = +1
Ring1: ?
Ring2: ?
bonus: 4th AW skill - +1

6.5

+1 Wicked Oath Ring
+0.5 lvl 2 Combat Tactics

8

+Whatever you can get from Leiliana. The Song does not scale well so you will probably get around +1 or so.

So 9 is just about the max.

Modifié par themaxzero, 17 décembre 2009 - 08:31 .

[Alphakiller]

level 2 combat tactics gives mana regen? can anyone confirm this?

also, where do you get the wicked oath ring? i've never seen it.

and if that's attainable by me, then adding song of courage from both leliana and zevran will indeed make me reach +10...

but anyway, i've started a new playthrough (on nightmare, of course) to see if this is a valid build + team setup. it even makes room for any optional 4th party member if I make sure my AW has heal... which she does.

though the next question is what second spec should I take when the time comes? and what other equipment? I'm leaning towards blood mage... but is there any reason to take spirit healer?

[SfHell]

Why all that???

I don't see why you are stressing with the regen.

The best thing you can with do arcane warrior is to equip him with Wade Medium Dragon Scale Armor. It leaves you with -10 fatigue. By the time you activate shimmering and combat magic your fatigue will be nowhere near as high had you used an heavy armor. I used to run with Combat magic, shimmering shield, rock armor, arcane shield on and never ran out of mana. And still had some left for cone of cold....

Don't see where you guys are comming from...
I had my armor above 60 if I remember well,

Modifié par SfHell, 18 décembre 2009 - 01:26 .

[SfHell]

Alphakiller wrote...

level 2 combat tactics gives mana regen? can anyone confirm this?
also, where do you get the wicked oath ring? i've never seen it.
and if that's attainable by me, then adding song of courage from both leliana and zevran will indeed make me reach +10...
but anyway, i've started a new playthrough (on nightmare, of course) to see if this is a valid build + team setup. it even makes room for any optional 4th party member if I make sure my AW has heal... which she does.
though the next question is what second spec should I take when the time comes? and what other equipment? I'm leaning towards blood mage... but is there any reason to take spirit healer?

Arcane Warrior and Blood Mage is pure overpower. The game will lose all the challenge with this build in your party. I did my first playtrough on nightmare this way and it was ridiculous, although fun I must admit.
If you are going that way I advise not to put another mage in the group, having two casters send crushing prision, force field, cone of cold is too much OP. 

:innocent:

[Alphakiller]

SfHell wrote...

Why all that???

I don't see why you are stressing with the regen.

The best thing you can with do arcane warrior is to equip him with Wade Medium Dragon Scale Armor. It leaves you with -10 fatigue. By the time you activate shimmering and combat magic your fatigue will be nowhere near as high had you used an heavy armor. I used to run with Combat magic, shimmering shield, rock armor, arcane shield on and never ran out of mana. And still had some left for cone of cold....

Don't see where you guys are comming from...
I had my armor above 60 if I remember well,

when you did this, was shimmering shield still bugged?

it's supposed to deactivate when your mana bar is empty.  an AW isn't as OP as he is without shimmering shield turned on. what i'm doing is trying to build an AW that is still OP without having to rely on a bugged ability.

[SfHell]

Alphakiller wrote...

SfHell wrote...

Why all that???

I don't see why you are stressing with the regen.

The best thing you can with do arcane warrior is to equip him with Wade Medium Dragon Scale Armor. It leaves you with -10 fatigue. By the time you activate shimmering and combat magic your fatigue will be nowhere near as high had you used an heavy armor. I used to run with Combat magic, shimmering shield, rock armor, arcane shield on and never ran out of mana. And still had some left for cone of cold....

Don't see where you guys are comming from...
I had my armor above 60 if I remember well,

when you did this, was shimmering shield still bugged?

it's supposed to deactivate when your mana bar is empty.  an AW isn't as OP as he is without shimmering shield turned on. what i'm doing is trying to build an AW that is still OP without having to rely on a bugged ability.

I had the 1.02 and sometimes it would come off, but very very rarely. I could walk a whole dungeon section with it on. I can post some screen shots if you desire.

[Alphakiller]

... Did you ever walk around with an empty mana pool?

[SfHell]

No, as I said, still had some mana left. I could either send a cone of cold or activate miasma if needed. Any other emergencies I'd cast with blood magic.



I think the main thing is the armor you choose. I will make a test now wearing a heavy legion plate armor to see if the character actually runs out of mana.

But with Wade's medium dragon skin armor you can't go wrong.

Also it's the only armor to get that will maintain it's value, the supreme dragonbone is crappy since you get other 3 armors that are better than it, thus becoming useless.

[Ulyn]

Sta/Mana regen increases as the pool is almost exhausted, as of 1.02. This may put mana regen over the top to sustain SS if your gear is already almost adequate.



I'd take it for a test drive rather than rely on theorycrafting, as I dunno that anyone has numbers yet on how sta/mana regen increases near exhaustion.

[SfHell]

Just did a test.
My character as 46 armor with Wade's Superior Medium Dragonscale.
The mana consumption of shimmering shield was 3 points per 1.5 second ( not sure about this, it was slower than one second though). With juggernault the mana consumption doubled as well did fatigue it went to 110   whereas Wade's was 60 -. It was consuming 6 points at the same rate as above.

My character had 259 mana left. And 135 reserved. So it was a lot more mana to use than I stated. That's why shimmering shield was never turned off during combat.
And with the patch the regen hate as been increased so you can walk with it on whithout it consuming mana.
I'll post screen shots soon.


So summarinzing. 

Wade's Superior Dragonskin Medium Armor- Fatigue 60 - Cost to cast cone of cold - 32/ Crushing Prision 97/
Fireball 64
Mana consumption - 3 per unknow time ( I think it's btw 1 sec / 1.5 sec)Wade's Superior Medium - 46 armor -

Juggernault - 55 armor - Fatigue 110 -  Cost to Cast CoC - 44 / Crushing Prision 125 / Fireball 83
Mana consumption - 6 per unknow time ( I think it's btw 1 sec / 1.5 sec)

Armor of Legion - Same as Juggernault

Modifié par SfHell, 18 décembre 2009 - 03:37 .

[SfHell]

So summarinzing.



Wade's Superior Dragonskin Medium Armor- Fatigue 60 - Cost to cast cone of cold - 32/ Crushing Prision 97/

Fireball 64

Mana consumption - 3 per unknow time ( I think it's btw 1 sec / 1.5 sec)Wade's Superior Medium - 46 armor -



Juggernault - 55 armor - Fatigue 110 - Cost to Cast CoC - 44 / Crushing Prision 125 / Fireball 83

Mana consumption - 6 per unknow time ( I think it's btw 1 sec / 1.5 sec)



Armor of Legion - Same as Juggernault

[Alphakiller]

interesting... this would suggest that fatigue affects your mana drain...

I wonder if that's intentional?

[SfHell]

It probably is. It's an attempt to balance, you're trading armor for mana. The higher the armor, the more mana it will cost you.

[PatT2]

There are other items you can wear that increase decrease your fatigue. However, when the game was first released, a lot of folks on the PC said that AW was totally overpowered. It was, and it was a bug. They fixed it so it's like what it was designed to be, and now everyone wants a workaround to bring the bug back! I knew that would happen. Now those who play the AW the way it was designed have it the way the rest of us always did. It's not overpowered.



That said, it would have been fun. A god mode of sorts. But that always gets the attention of the devs because all kinds of people start talking about it.

[SfHell]

AW still overpowered as hell. The mana consumption rate barely justifies the benefits. You have character that has the overpowered mage spells and takes substantially less damage than a Tank sword&shield warrior. And you have lyrium potions or blood magic....

[themaxzero]

SfHell wrote...

So summarinzing.

Wade's Superior Dragonskin Medium Armor- Fatigue 60 - Cost to cast cone of cold - 32/ Crushing Prision 97/
Fireball 64
Mana consumption - 3 per unknow time ( I think it's btw 1 sec / 1.5 sec)Wade's Superior Medium - 46 armor -

Juggernault - 55 armor - Fatigue 110 - Cost to Cast CoC - 44 / Crushing Prision 125 / Fireball 83
Mana consumption - 6 per unknow time ( I think it's btw 1 sec / 1.5 sec)

Armor of Legion - Same as Juggernault

Considering that Superior Dragonskin gives 2 points of regen per second could it be that regen difference was just that and that you simply made a mathmatical error?

If fatigue did effect mana drain then a AW would be in major trouble since they tend to run a lot of toggles. They often end up at close to 100% fatigue which would dwarf any benefit you would gain from the set bonus.

Modifié par themaxzero, 18 décembre 2009 - 08:23 .