40 réponses à ce sujet

[I Tsunayoshi I]

You dont need a pet unless you are going solo. This is why I keep saying Ranger adds nothing. My last archer by time I was prepped was SF+SoC and I reverted back to SoV for the stamina regen.



More than likely, since this is a console char meaning no fixes for anything and more than likely I will just stick to Bard as I already commited to it and thinking Assassin will do the trick again with AoS and SC being the moneyshots to make before sniping cleanup.

[DragoonKain3]

Uhhh, at CUN 30 (ie. 20 CUN modifier) for the DEX rogue...

Bard - +5% crit, +5 ATK, +3 damage with song, party wide
Assassin - +3.5 backstab damage , +~7 damage per hit with mark of death for 20 secs (or at least thats what my endgame Zevran's improvement was)
Duelist -  +1 global damage, +10 ATK/DEF during dueling, around +20 damage only during pinpoint striking attacking from front for only 15 seconds
Ranger - overall +20 dps for 50 stamina upkeep for as long as pet is alive. Extra body too.

Yeah... I dunno about you, but numbers are heavily in Ranger's favour here for the DEX rogue... no, Ranger certainly adds more than 'nothing' as OP claims, and even moreso than the other specs with this build. Bard is pretty much worthless with a low CUN score like that, so either you go for Duelist for more survivability or Assassin for slight more damage.


For CUN rogue at 100 CUN (90 modifier)

Bard - +12% crit, +12 ATK, +6.5 damage
Assassin - +20 backstab damage, +~7 mark of death per hit
Duelist - +1 global damage, +10ATK/DEF, +20 damage pinpoint striking
Ranger - + 20 DPS

So now, Assassin gives you parity on dps of ranger, with some bonuses. And with CUN rogue's patethic attack score, you want that Bard song too.

Modifié par DragoonKain3, 19 décembre 2009 - 04:08 .

[shaktiboy]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Uhhh, at CUN 30 (ie. 20 CUN modifier) for the DEX rogue...

Bard - +5% crit, +5 ATK, +3 damage with song, party wide
Assassin - +3.5 backstab damage , +~7 damage per hit with mark of death for 20 secs (or at least thats what my endgame Zevran's improvement was)
Duelist -  +1 global damage, +10 ATK/DEF during dueling, around +20 damage only during pinpoint striking attacking from front for only 15 seconds
Ranger - overall +20 dps for 50 stamina upkeep for as long as pet is alive. Extra body too.

Yeah... I dunno about you, but numbers are heavily in Ranger's favour here for the DEX rogue... no, Ranger certainly adds more than 'nothing' as OP claims, and even moreso than the other specs with this build. Bard is pretty much worthless with a low CUN score like that, so either you go for Duelist for more survivability or Assassin for slight more damage.


For CUN rogue at 100 CUN (90 modifier)

Bard - +12% crit, +12 ATK, +6.5 damage
Assassin - +20 backstab damage, +~7 mark of death per hit
Duelist - +1 global damage, +10ATK/DEF, +20 damage pinpoint striking
Ranger - + 20 DPS

So now, Assassin gives you parity on dps of ranger, with some bonuses. And with CUN rogue's patethic attack score, you want that Bard song too.

This is a nice, succinct summary. Thank you. Very helpful. Clearly a DEX rogue benefits most from Bard and Ranger (+12 Damage/hit party wide plus +20 DPS from the pet). And CUN rogue benefits most from Bard and Assassin since you're always planning on as much backstab damage as possible as a CUN rogue (+26 damage per hit party wide plus +20 damage backstabbing). Although since the cooldown on Mark of Death is so long I suppose you could argue that Ranger would be effectively interchangeable with Assassin for a CUN rogue.

[skotie]

While personally I play a CUN dagger/dagger rogue and always go Assassin/Duelist, I always tend to have Leliana in my groups for Bard songs and usually just give her Ranger for second spec for the pet and extra tank/CC from the wolf.

Seeing DragoonKain3's post certainly makes me want to try out Assassin/Bard for my rogue.

But to what the one guy that said Momentum is not used all the time lol. When would be a good time not to be using Momentum with a duel wielding rogue? Most of you're damage is from backstabs which also require no stamina to achieve, usually while behind a target or to targets that are stunned, why on earth would I not want to be attacking faster for more backstabs and therefore not have Momentum up 24/7? Better yet why would I not want to be attacking faster anyways even if I have no stamina?

Next time you try fighting a boss keep momentum up and only use Dirty Fighting and Riposte as your two stamina use moves, see if they die faster than when you waste all your stamina on flurry and punisher.

Modifié par skotie, 19 décembre 2009 - 07:09 .

[Glory71]

Rogue with bow as main and melee secondary, I think its best to go Ranger/ Assassin or Ranger/ Duelist. One can use the pets as tank, Leliana/ Zevran as fellow archer(s) and Morrigan and/or Wynne for mages.

For straight up play with no 'mods' added (ie Duncan Armor, etc.) and if the plan is to make the rogue character as tank, I'd go assassin/ duelist. Tactically...at level 14...a well planned backstabbing, stealthy, 'tank' rogue can successfully engage 2 mages, 4 archers, and 3 to 4 melee wielding targets all at the same time...alone...on nightmare difficulty.

Bards are have good stats but we already have Leliana and I believe most of us bring her along anyway so I'd rather focus on Assassin, Duelist, or Ranger specialization and just let Leliana have all the bard skills.

Modifié par Glory71, 19 décembre 2009 - 08:14 .

[shaktiboy]

Glory71 wrote...

For straight up play with no 'mods' added (ie Duncan Armor, etc.) and if the plan is to make the rogue character as tank, I'd go assassin/ duelist. Tactically...at level 14...a well planned backstabbing, stealthy, 'tank' rogue can successfully engage 2 mages, 4 archers, and 3 to 4 melee wielding targets all at the same time...alone...on nightmare difficulty.

I'd love to know what your general tactics for a fight like this would be. How would such a fight play out solo? What talent rotation and target order would you use?

[Silensfurtim]

that will be a pure DEX Rogue lol

[borelocin]

I actually went Bard/Duelist on my longbow archer. Seemed to work nicely !

[Pauldarian]

Just play what's fun for you,

If the game is getting in the way set it on Casual.

[Spartansfan8888]

Ranger is good, with your pet on the front lines you dont have to restrict one person in your group to purely attracting enemies and taking damage... plus if youre an archer that bear blocks people from getting to you in tight spaces lol

[Taylor.Dreams]

whoever posted that a cunning rogue should always go bard/assassin instead of duelist/assassin is wrong.



having a lower dexterity means you'll benefit greatly from duelist's abilities to add to DEFENSE mainly and also to attack. guaranteed crits for 15seconds ONLY??? 15 seconds is how long most fights last imo, unless you're fighting something like a high dragon, in which case you'll be using a bow instead.

[Taylor.Dreams]

also consider having 2 rogues, 1 archer being a bard and the other can be your dw ass/duel

[tetracycloide]

Bard songs stack when there's more than one bard. For high cunning rogues, even if duelist were the better choice for personal DPS, party DPS is much much better off, provided there's at least one other physical damage dealer (like a tank), if the rogue goes bard anyway. Bard is almost always more damage than duelist with high cunning for personal DPS anyway.

using a bow against the high dragon as a dagger/dagger cunning rogue is a huge waste of DPS.  proper positioning ensures you don't eat and kicks or massive attacks and the dragon goes down considerably faster with a 100-120 DPS melee rouge attacking it than it does with the same rouge doing 20-40 DPS at range.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 12 janvier 2010 - 05:53 .

[Haplose]

tetracycloide wrote...
using a bow against the high dragon as a dagger/dagger cunning rogue is a huge waste of DPS.  proper positioning ensures you don't eat and kicks or massive attacks and the dragon goes down considerably faster with a 100-120 DPS melee rouge attacking it than it does with the same rouge doing 20-40 DPS at range.

This got me intrigued.
I wonder what this proper positioning is. I was always getting hopelessly kicked around all over the place or tailswept when I tried to approach a Dragon from behind.

Modifié par Haplose, 12 janvier 2010 - 10:31 .

[tetracycloide]

There's a sweet spot when you're facing the right or left side of her belly where you can be just inside the flanking arc with the combat movement talent and stab backward into her hind leg. In my experience as a rogue standing here and carefullly repositioning to the same spot after every buffet my character avoided a large number of the attacks often cited as spelling instant death to melee attackers. I don't recall eating a single kick when positioned properly, for example.

[Haplose]

tetracycloide wrote...

There's a sweet spot when you're facing the right or left side of her belly where you can be just inside the flanking arc with the combat movement talent and stab backward into her hind leg. In my experience as a rogue standing here and carefullly repositioning to the same spot after every buffet my character avoided a large number of the attacks often cited as spelling instant death to melee attackers. I don't recall eating a single kick when positioned properly, for example.

Interesting. Good to know. Thanks for sharing!