292 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

Ambiguous means it is up to the player to decide.

That's also why they didn't show the futures of the Normandy crew. Because they want to leave it up to the player.

[DanteanDevil]

iakus wrote...

Dantean Devil wrote...

 If helper said Shepard could possibly be dead why does almost everyone assume he died. I mean didn't he just say that so that if you want him to live he's alive and if you don't he's dead. I don't understand why so many people are using this as "proof" that he's dead. Isn't Helper one writer and this is HIS conclusion. It seems confusing because in this 
http://social.biowar...758618#12758842 Bioware said he lived if you do high EMS Destroy. I don't see why so many people take the worst possible meaning of this statement and say its the TRUTH when even if your being pesimestic Helper was saying he lived or died depending on what you wanted.

Because seven other endings say he's dead.  And this one was deliberately left ambiguous rather than definitive.

It still seems like most of the people posting want what Helper said to mean Shepards dead when he was too vague for you to actually draw a conclusion from his statement.

[LilyasAvalon]

sporeian wrote...

SPECULATIONS FOR EVERYBODIES!

[chemiclord]

Dantean Devil wrote...

It still seems like most of the people posting want what Helper said to mean Shepards dead when he was too vague for you to actually draw a conclusion from his statement.

They believe it because it justifies their bitterness, anger, and rage.  That way they can continue to believe that Bioware is intentionally trying to hurt them and insult them and disrespect them in ways nigh unimagniable.

In other words, it allows them to continue to act like spoiled brats.

[Ticonderoga117]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Ambiguous means it is up to the player to decide.

That's also why they didn't show the futures of the Normandy crew. Because they want to leave it up to the player.

Because I spent $60+ for me to make up the story.
Wait... what?

[DanteanDevil]

chemiclord wrote...

Dantean Devil wrote...

It still seems like most of the people posting want what Helper said to mean Shepards dead when he was too vague for you to actually draw a conclusion from his statement.

They believe it because it justifies their bitterness, anger, and rage.  That way they can continue to believe that Bioware is intentionally trying to hurt them and insult them and disrespect them in ways nigh unimagniable.

In other words, it allows them to continue to act like spoiled brats.

Well since its up to each players "imagination" I'm just gonna have Shepard run off with his crew.

[ElementL09]

...do they even know what to do with Shepard?

[chemiclord]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Ambiguous means it is up to the player to decide.

That's also why they didn't show the futures of the Normandy crew. Because they want to leave it up to the player.

Because I spent $60+ for me to make up the story.
Wait... what?

Why not?

"It's our story too!"  Isn't that the rallying cry?

Here's your chance to make it your story.  Have fun.  Go crazy.

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

Dantean Devil wrote...

It still seems like most of the people posting want what Helper said to mean Shepards dead when he was too vague for you to actually draw a conclusion from his statement.

They believe it because it justifies their bitterness, anger, and rage.  That way they can continue to believe that Bioware is intentionally trying to hurt them and insult them and disrespect them in ways nigh unimagniable.

In other words, it allows them to continue to act like spoiled brats.

If you're going to be this vitriolic, you may want to take your own advice

[CronoDragoon]

If you wish to despair over an ambiguous scene, be my guest. He's alive building a house on Rannoch in my game, and you can't give me evidence otherwise.

It's kind of funny that the people who want Shepard to live the most are the most eager to point out reasons/quotes that he might not be. 

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 16 juillet 2012 - 05:13 .

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

If you're going to be this vitriolic, you may want to take your own advice

People who want to make everything into a malicious insult, or a slap to the face, to justify irrational kneejerk reactions, while refusing to even see potentially benign reasons for what was given deserve nothing but the contempt I show them.

[Seifer006]

so shepard breathed...
doesn't mean he lived. simply showed it was his last breath. so what if he died. i like to see someone new

how about WREX

[Ticonderoga117]

chemiclord wrote...
Why not?

"It's our story too!"  Isn't that the rallying cry?

Here's your chance to make it your story.  Have fun.  Go crazy.

There's a difference between keeping the story going along the general plot lines while giving the player choices that would make them feel as though they still had control as if it was actually them and just railroading them. We like the former. Just watch Armando's presentation to see how BioWare approached this earlier.

ME1 and ME2 did this resonably well.

ME3 didn't. Plus it failed on making the major "big" choices mean anything besides 10 WA.

If I have to dream up the most important part of the narrative (THE BLOODY END) why did I buy this game again? I could've written my own fanfiction and be much more satisfied.

[Iakus]

@chemiclord

Whatever, man. Just so you know you're starting to sound like what you claim we sound like

Modifié par iakus, 16 juillet 2012 - 05:19 .

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

There's a difference between keeping the story going along the general plot lines while giving the player choices that would make them feel as though they still had control as if it was actually them and just railroading them. We like the former. Just watch Armando's presentation to see how BioWare approached this earlier.

ME1 and ME2 did this resonably well.

ME3 didn't. Plus it failed on making the major "big" choices mean anything besides 10 WA.

If I have to dream up the most important part of the narrative (THE BLOODY END) why did I buy this game again? I could've written my own fanfiction and be much more satisfied.

I would say Virmire is just as much of a railroad as any choice in the series. ME2 I agree with.

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...
I would say Virmire is just as much of a railroad as any choice in the series. ME2 I agree with.

A bit, but it doesn't "feel" like one, you know?

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
I would say Virmire is just as much of a railroad as any choice in the series. ME2 I agree with.

A bit, but it doesn't "feel" like one, you know?

I'm guessing we're talking about killing the geth/EDI here when we talk about ending railroads, so I'll suggest that if it was just EDI, say, that you had to kill, people would be much less pissed. I happen to think that most of the ill will towards the current endings would dissipate with the geth surviving and a reunion slide. People would still obviously hate the Catalyst, but if he were merely a poorly thought out exposition device instead of the representation of a railroad with much worse consequences than Virmire, I think people would be able to get over it.

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I'm guessing we're talking about killing the geth/EDI here when we talk about ending railroads, so I'll suggest that if it was just EDI, say, that you had to kill, people would be much less pissed. I happen to think that most of the ill will towards the current endings would dissipate with the geth surviving and a reunion slide. People would still obviously hate the Catalyst, but if he were merely a poorly thought out exposition device instead of the representation of a railroad with much worse consequences than Virmire, I think people would be able to get over it.

It would go a long way, but mainly just the fact that the Collector Base decision does nada and the Cruicible is still there is agrivating, but not as much.

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...


It would go a long way, but mainly just the fact that the Collector Base decision does nada and the Cruicible is still there is agrivating, but not as much.

Well, I think the Collector Base thing is indicative of a larger problem that runs throughout ME3 of the marginalization of decisions in the previous games. So i don't feel that's ill will towards the endings specifically.

I am definitely in the minority when I say this, but I love the Crucible. The idea that each cycle contributed some part in the blueprint of the Crucible, such that the Crucible can be interpreted as an avatar of vengeance of EVERY cycle the way Javik is for his, resonates strongly with me. Using the Crucible successfully against the Reapers is thus symbolically a victory earned not only by Shepard's cycle but by all cycles. None of those cycles died in vain.

So yeah, love the idea behind the Crucible. To me, it's ever more satisfying than conventional victory. The idea, you now. Not necessarily the ways BioWare chose to make the Crucible actually work.

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...
Well, I think the Collector Base thing is indicative of a larger problem that runs throughout ME3 of the marginalization of decisions in the previous games. So i don't feel that's ill will towards the endings specifically.

I am definitely in the minority when I say this, but I love the Crucible. The idea that each cycle contributed some part in the blueprint of the Crucible, such that the Crucible can be interpreted as an avatar of vengeance of EVERY cycle the way Javik is for his, resonates strongly with me. Using the Crucible successfully against the Reapers is thus symbolically a victory earned not only by Shepard's cycle but by all cycles. None of those cycles died in vain.

So yeah, love the idea behind the Crucible. To me, it's ever more satisfying than conventional victory. The idea, you now. Not necessarily the ways BioWare chose to make the Crucible actually work.

I can respect that idea, and it resonates with me some, but it also screams at me that it's moronic.
Each cycle managed to find, modify, and hide the schematics? Over multiple cycles? That just screams stupid to me. I would've liked it much better if it was just a Prothean thing. A matter of believeablility. *shrug*

[CronoDragoon]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

I can respect that idea, and it resonates with me some, but it also screams at me that it's moronic.
Each cycle managed to find, modify, and hide the schematics? Over multiple cycles? That just screams stupid to me. I would've liked it much better if it was just a Prothean thing. A matter of believeablility. *shrug*

I don't think it's all that improbable. The Reapers wage war through atrition; cycles usually die out slowly and that would provide plenty of time to hide the schematics.

Moreover, it isn't necessarily the case that each cycle found the schematics close to the Reapers arriving. Some may have found it far earlier, but were unable to discern a purpose until later.

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

Here is BioWare last couple of months:
"The endings will be completely different."
"Lulz we lied."
"Maybe the ending wasn't real...?"
"Lulz we lied some more. They were real."
"We left the breathing scene open for interpretation."
"Lulz we lied, again. We wanted fans to be happy that Shepard MIGHT be alive because we knew fans would stop giving us money if s/he wasn't."
Does anyone over at BioWare know what the heck happened at the end of ME3?

[Ticonderoga117]

CronoDragoon wrote...
I don't think it's all that improbable. The Reapers wage war through atrition; cycles usually die out slowly and that would provide plenty of time to hide the schematics.

Moreover, it isn't necessarily the case that each cycle found the schematics close to the Reapers arriving. Some may have found it far earlier, but were unable to discern a purpose until later.

The second part, sure.

The first, well, when indoctrinated agents tend to shoot to holes in security, it seems highly unlikely it would've made it that far. Especially funny since they knew the Protheans had the plans (Was the whole reason why they didn't finish it, besides the whole Citadel bit) and yet didn't... ugh.

[Conniving_Eagle]

I think the storyline of the next Bioware product should be told entirely via twitter. Who's with me?