292 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

devSin wrote...

Bfler wrote...

So if Shepard is dead, what is the meaning of the memorial scene in destroy, where your LI holds the plate and smiles?

False hope.

It makes you feel better, even though it doesn't mean anything.

This.

The Angry One wrote...

It's not a leap in logic at all if you factor in the other endings.
In control/synthesis, they don't hesitate so much and put up the plaque. In destroy, they don't. The meaning should be clear.

Well, sure, anything is possible when you start metagaming but the narrative isn't taking that into account.

If you picked Destroy then the results of Control/Synthesis/Refual didn't happen. If you didn't pick Destroy then there's no breath scene to further the feeling of false hope with. It's a "reward" for going above and beyond (high EMS) but it doesn't necessarily mean anything substantial.

Modifié par leonia42, 15 juillet 2012 - 08:23 .

[MystEU]

No canon ending. Hold on to your hope! Enjoy your walk into the implied sunset!

While I synthesize all left next playthrough, ahoooy.

[The Angry One]

leonia42 wrote...

Well, sure, anything is possible when you start metagaming but the narrative isn't taking that into account.

This isn't meta-gaming influencing the narrative though, this is showing that, however illogical it may be, the scene is meant to convey that Shep's LI can "sense" they're still alive whereas in the others they don't.

What else changes in these endings to make control/synthesis LIs accept Shep's death and destroy's not?

[M Hedonist]

Since when does hope require hard evidence to work? That's the whole point of hope. If there was hard evidence you wouldn't need to hope.

[Leonia]

And when did the LI become "Force sensitive" like Leia in ESB? What if Shepard has no LI? What if their LI isn't on the Normandy during the memorial scene? What if the LI just has wishful thinking going on (speculations, if you will) about Shepard and it just so happens there's a breath scene afterwards? Could be a coincidence, everyone deals with grief differently.

There's a lot of variables going on and more than one way to interpret it, certainly you can choose to hope that Shepard is indeed alive but I can't accept that the "LI knows Shepard is alive" because that doesn't seem very realistic. If anything they aren't accepting that Shepard is gone, they want Shepard to be alive. But how can they know for sure any more than the Control/Synthesis knows for sure that Shepard must be dead?

Whether the squad-mates accept the death or not cannot serve as hard evidence to determine whether Shepard is actually dead. They have their thoughts and we have ours as players but the ambiguity is still there.

Modifié par leonia42, 15 juillet 2012 - 08:31 .

[ShepnTali]

Thanks to Bioware's decisions I don't care about the characters at all anymore. I'm glad refuse ending kills everybody. Ends the whole clusterflub.

[RavenEyry]

As I've said since this argument started, it's blatantly a waking up gasp not a dying breath.

[The Angry One]

leonia42 wrote...

And when did the LI become "Force sensitive" like Leia in ESB? What if Shepard has no LI? What if their LI isn't on the Normandy during the memorial scene? What if the LI just has wishful thinking going on (speculations, if you will) about Shepard and it just so happens there's a breath scene afterwards? Could be a coincidence, everyone deals with grief differently.

There's a lot of variables going on and more than one way to interpret it, certainly you can choose to hope that Shepard is indeed alive but I can't accept that the "LI knows Shepard is alive" because that doesn't seem very realistic. If anything they aren't accepting that Shepard is gone, they want Shepard to be alive. But how can they know for sure any more than the Control/Synthesis knows for sure that Shepard must be dead?

Did I say it was good writing? No. I said that's what they were trying to convey.

Whether the squad-mates accept the death or not cannot serve as hard evidence to determine whether Shepard is actually dead. They have their thoughts and we have ours as players but the ambiguity is still there.

So why do they accept it with these endings and not destroy? What changes for them? Does blue/green light make one more accepting of these things?

[LaughingDragon]

ShepnTali wrote...

Thanks to Bioware's decisions I don't care about the characters at all anymore. I'm glad refuse ending kills everybody. Ends the whole clusterflub.

Yeah. Hopefully the reapers were able to destroy BioWare studios 2183 before the crucible went off.

[Conniving_Eagle]

LaughingDragon wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Thanks to Bioware's decisions I don't care about the characters at all anymore. I'm glad refuse ending kills everybody. Ends the whole clusterflub.

Yeah. Hopefully the reapers were able to destroy BioWare studios 2183 before the crucible went off.

I hope Edmonton was burnt to the ground and harvested dry.

Modifié par Conniving_Eagle, 15 juillet 2012 - 08:42 .

[Leonia]

The Angry One wrote...

So why do they accept it with these endings and not destroy? What changes for them? Does blue/green light make one more accepting of these things?

Maybe something happened off-camera, maybe they are guessing based on the Reapers still being around in one form or another that Shepard must have died. They're still guessing, just as we are.

As someone else said, you don't need hard evidence to have hope. But a lack of any evidence can also lead to despair.

If you start comparing the endings in relation to another you are metagaming and the game doesn't metagame itself.

[Jadebaby]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

LaughingDragon wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Thanks to Bioware's decisions I don't care about the characters at all anymore. I'm glad refuse ending kills everybody. Ends the whole clusterflub.

Yeah. Hopefully the reapers were able to destroy BioWare studios 2183 before the crucible went off.

I hope Edmonton was burnt to the ground and harvested dry.

Art doesn't burn..

[Conniving_Eagle]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

LaughingDragon wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Thanks to Bioware's decisions I don't care about the characters at all anymore. I'm glad refuse ending kills everybody. Ends the whole clusterflub.

Yeah. Hopefully the reapers were able to destroy BioWare studios 2183 before the crucible went off.

I hope Edmonton was burnt to the ground and harvested dry.

Art doesn't burn..

Damnit you're right! Walters probably had the Alliance decide to build a giant Reaper IFF on top of their studio anyway.

[sporeian]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

LaughingDragon wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...

Thanks to Bioware's decisions I don't care about the characters at all anymore. I'm glad refuse ending kills everybody. Ends the whole clusterflub.

Yeah. Hopefully the reapers were able to destroy BioWare studios 2183 before the crucible went off.

I hope Edmonton was burnt to the ground and harvested dry.

Art doesn't burn..

But does make one heck of an inhalent!

[Ageless Face]

Nope. Shepard lives, No matter what the writers say. They let Shepard survive, and let us know even Shepard's LI knows this. So no. Maybe it's one writer's headcanon. But it's certently more obvious the intent was to let us know in the future a reunion with both LI and Shepard will happen.

[ShepnTali]

HagarIshay wrote...

Nope. Shepard lives, No matter what the writers say. They let Shepard survive, and let us know even Shepard's LI knows this. So no. Maybe it's one writer's headcanon. But it's certently more obvious the intent was to let us know in the future a reunion with both LI and Shepard will happen.

At best, a 'possible' reunion. 

[RavenEyry]

It is interesting how all these conflicting statements and twitter posts imply the designers don't understand the ending any more than we do.

[Conniving_Eagle]

RavenEyry wrote...

It is interesting how all these conflicting statements and twitter posts imply the designers don't understand the ending any more than we do.

www.youtube.com/watch

[Ageless Face]

ShepnTali wrote...
At best, a 'possible' reunion. 

That is for headcanon, since we weren't shown it. But we can safely assume there is going to be one.

[sporeian]

HagarIshay wrote...

ShepnTali wrote...
At best, a 'possible' reunion. 

That is for headcanon, since we weren't shown it. But we can safely assume there is going to be one.

okay... that'll be 800 Microsoft Points! 

[Roamingmachine]

If it was a last gasp before death then i think BW people need to talk to some ER people who have actually seen it happen.Because it certainly isn't a HUGE INTAKE of air.

[Conquerthecity]

The breath scene infuriates me and I still don't have closure.

All these implications would have been better suited for a book. In the memorial wall scene for example, I could have gotten some internal monologue from the love interest about how they felt that Shepard was alive out there. Then the breath scene and I would have been more or less satisfied...if ME were a book.  

In such a visual medium as video games, it didn't work for me and I don't think I should have to head-canon it. If they wanted Shepard dead (because that's what you do when you have no idea where to go with a character) they shouldn't have added the breath scene at all. That "beacon of hope" is meaningless.

Modifié par Mungolian_, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:13 .

[Mcfly616]

Bfler wrote...

So if Shepard is dead, what is the meaning of the memorial scene in destroy, where your LI holds the plate and smiles?

he isn't dead ...the meaning of that scene is that he's alive....people go into a frenzy because some uninformed low level employee that has nothing to do with the game or its story development, popped off at the mouth like they knew what they were talking about


The breathe scene is the writers implying that he lived. That was their intention with the original endings, and it still is today....otherwise, the strategy guide wouldn't specifically state: "Shepard Lives"

[The Angry One]

RavenEyry wrote...

It is interesting how all these conflicting statements and twitter posts imply the designers don't understand the ending any more than we do.

It's what happens when you try to justify an ending entirely written by two men who have put up a mile high wall around themselves.

[Soltana]

RavenEyry wrote...

It is interesting how all these conflicting statements and twitter posts imply the designers don't understand the ending any more than we do.

We have a winrar.

Guys, it's been obvious since this whole thing began that when it came to writing the ending, they had abso-frakin-lutely no idea where they were going. They reiterate this time and again with Words of God (via Twitter no less) constantly contradicting and employees spouting off cockamamie headcanons left and right. They tried way too hard at the worst possible time to try and move the narrative into something different, philosophical, and thought-provoking without even giving a second thought that it just might not fit. It's like a high fantasy writer deciding he wants to bring elements of modern crime drama into his latest novel. He's never written a crime story before, has no idea what he's doing, but he's so consumed with the feeling of these elements that he wants so badly that he's simply blinded by misguided desire of what he likes and not what his readers have come to expect and eagerly anticipate.

This is simply a case of bad writing (which we've known for months) and an either clueless writer, or an individual blatantly trying to antagonize fans. Maybe both.

tl;dr - Headcanon away, my lovelies. Beedubs can't give you closure because they have no idea what was going on either.

Modifié par Soltana, 15 juillet 2012 - 09:17 .