292 réponses à ce sujet

[chemiclord]

Massa FX wrote...
I respect your opinion. Please respect mine. I blame the creators of this mess. Not myself. It's not my problem now or then nor will it be my problem.

Fans respond to the topic in every way. I'm not sure why you've soloed me out for condemnation or ridicule.

If you don't like what I post... don't read it.

For what it's worth, I haven't soloed you out.  I've given plenty of posters who have your sentiment considerable grief.

Nor am I particularly ridiculing you.  "Walk away" is not a dismissal.  It's honest advice.

The complaints have been heard.  They listened to fans like you, and decided your complaints were without merit.  They drew their line in the sand with the Extended Cut, and they are done with ending related content.  It will not change, no matter how much you complain or blame them.

And frankly, it's their right.  No matter what PR bull**** was spouted, Mass Effect is their story.  They get to tell it how they wish, and they decide how, where, and why it ends.

Further complaints are pointless.  They now fall on deaf ears.  Your recourse, as a consumer, is to now divorce yourself from the product.  Walk away, and let your silence and wallet speak for you... because at the end of the day, THAT is what Bioware will TRULY listen to.  If you represent the majority that you think you do, Bioware will learn its lesson, or it will wither on the vine.  Either way, you win.

You DON'T win by continuing the emotional investment that they can take advantage of with future products.

Modifié par chemiclord, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:31 .

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

That even with the EC, the endings are barely tolerable, at best?

I dunno, because that's my opinion on the quality of the endings.

Doesn't change the fact that Hepler was outright trolling, and it wasn't even particularly subtle, either.  "Don't feed the trolls" is good advice that should apply to people from Bioware too.

The fact is also that it's still a very sore subject for people, and this "trolling" attempt brought to light how sore it is for a lot of people.  I just hope Bioware pays attemtion to that detail for the future.

[Massa FX]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

AlloutAce wrote...

I don't get why people are all up in arms if Shep dies, it makes the story hit home more if he DOES die. War is sacrifice, if everyone had to sacrifice but Shephard it takes away from the drama. I'm glad he went out as a hero, though sad at the same time.

http://blogs.scienti...ill-your-hero/' class='bbc_url' title='Lien externe' rel='nofollow external'> http://blogs.scienti...kill-your-hero/

Nice article. I agree, but for a different reason.

I expected Shep to die at the end of ME3. After all his/her destiny was intertwined w/ the Reapers.  When they were gone, Shepard would be gone. What I didn’t expect was for Shep to go out in such a lackluster fashion coupled with an inane plot twist.  So, I think it would be appropriate for Shepard to die, just not in the manner BW decided to thrust upon us.

Good article. It's applicable to games. I didn't expect Shepard to die. They'd already done that in ME2. However, I would accept Shepards death if  Shepards actions were in character.

Destroy - Firing weapon at target makes sense. But, player control ends and Shepard runs toward a certain death. Out of Character.  She's not stupid. (gasp of breath means nada. I don't want to imagine what happens. Not what I paid for folks.)

Control - Shepard has fought against Cerebus/TIM from the get go. Controlling the Reapers by becoming a Reaper control stick? Not my Shep. Out of character.

Synthesis - Ridiculous option. Change everything in the galaxy's DNA. Out of character.

Refuse - Ok. That's in character, but the outcome ... Shepard just stands there like a lost puppy. Not the Shepard Bioware created. Out of character.

The panel didn't address anything of value to me yesterday. Yes, I expected more.

Mass Effect is the one game I play that I don't get bored with. It's a stress relief for me. I've grown to care about the characters, especially Shepard.

She did deserve better. No closure found to date.

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...
The fact is also that it's still a very sore subject for people, and this "trolling" attempt brought to light how sore it is for a lot of people.  I just hope Bioware pays attemtion to that detail for the future.

Well, there comes a point where if you are still sore about something, it's your problem, not theirs.

Bioware has made their final statement on the matter.  These are the endings we are getting.  At that point, the ending debacle has ceased to be their problem as far as they are concerned.  If you're still torqued about it, oh well.  They're done trying to please you.

So... that's the impasse.  Fans can either keep screaming at that brick wall, or they can walk away.  One will accomplish something, the other will not.

Modifié par chemiclord, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:54 .

[Armass81]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Pausanias wrote...

The theme of organics vs. synthetics has been the dominant theme of the series since the very beginning.

No it hasn't.

In ME1 it certainly was, in fact Saren himself states as much during the confrontation on Virmire. 

ME2 was more or less the calm before the storm with a focus on bulding assets and alliances for the war to come, and stopping a small threat from becoming a large one. 

But the Reapers aren't synthetics...

But they are being directed by a synthetic, And yes they are mostly synthetic. Thats why the red beam destroys them.

Modifié par Armass81, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:59 .

[Massa FX]

[quote]chemiclord wrote...

[quote]Massa FX wrote...
I respect your opinion. Please respect mine. I blame the creators of this mess. Not myself. It's not my problem now or then nor will it be my problem.

Fans respond to the topic in every way. I'm not sure why you've soloed me out for condemnation or ridicule.

If you don't like what I post... don't read it.

[/quote]
For what it's worth, I haven't soloed you out.  I've given plenty of posters who have your sentiment considerable grief.
[/quote]

Well... thanks. I think.

[/quote]
Nor am I particularly ridiculing you.  "Walk away" is not a dismissal.  It's honest advice.
[/quote]

Thanks for the advice. I'm a big girl. I can decide when to walk away and when not to. I thought I had until yesterday's panel. So... I'm venting. Venting is healthy, last I heard.

[/quote]
You DON'T win by continuing the emotional investment that they can take advantage of with future products.
[/quote]

Too late! I was emotionally invested within 10 minutes of playing ME1. It's only gotten worse. Am I alone in this? Nope.

Anyway, I get what you're saying here. I agree, I can withold my cash and do the "so there!" act. But honestly, I know I won't... and Bioware knows it too. This also fuels my pissed of mood.

Hell hath no fury... and I am a woman that feels scorned.

Modifié par Massa FX, 15 juillet 2012 - 06:00 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Mcfly616 wrote...

Palm.....


Face?


Yeah....this logic is just ass backwards....

Shepard lives....as specifically said in the official guide....not to mention Bioware themselves.....these panelists are of no importance....they're nobody's that get thrown to the wolves because Casey and Mac arent going to lol

Let's use common sense here folks....its not a last gasp....he "LIVES"... It's in there to symbolize his survival in that specific ending, while also leaving what he does afterwards up to the imagination.....(hence why my plaque never went up, the entire ending has symbolism in it).....some people are just incapable of understanding what is implied in movies and games these days....I guess..
Which is why those people that need every single detail explained to them word for word, are the same people that bash the game


They didn't throw a last gasp in just to reiterate the fact that he died....asinine logic.....laughable lol

Yeah, this.

This thread =

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 15 juillet 2012 - 06:04 .

[priestess of blood]

This whole thread is kinda moot, since it's unlikely the people that believe she is dead, are going to change their minds, and in the same way, I will continue to believe she survives, and I think there are better things to be doing or even discussing, than arguing this point back and forth in a never-ending circle that no one wins, and simply serves to waste all our times.

Modifié par priestess of blood, 15 juillet 2012 - 06:15 .

[Massa FX]

priestess of blood wrote...

This whole thread is kinda moot, since it's unlikely the people that believe she is dead, are going to change their minds, and in the same way, I will continue to believe she survives, and I think there are better things to be doing or even discussing, than arguing this point back and forth in a never-ending circle that no one wins, and simply serves to waste all our times.

Words of Wisdom.

[Ticonderoga117]

Why did I pay for this game again?
It obviously wasn't for the story, since GlowBoy single-handedly sunk it.
It wasn't for an epic and emotional beginning, because the trial is gone and Emily Wong's awesome scene was reduced to a f***ing twitter event.
It wasn't for the Victory, since it doesn't exist.
It wasn't for the end, since it's meant to be all head-canon.
It wasn't for the Multiplayer because I've played much much better and don't care.

BioWare, if you want me to speculate and head-canon something, just tell me to imagine something myself and not waste $$$ on your "art".

When you get back to telling decent stories without the lies, tell me.

[Kaladryn]

sporeian wrote...

I just figured it out!

Shepard pulls a Jesus Christ: Super Martyr at the end of ME3
Shepard=Jesus

so therefor... Shepard can return from the dead.... again.

It's the oldest fallback theme in books, movies, and now games: The jesus theme.

[10K]

So, Shepard dies and all the endings. I wonder what the fans of destory have to say now.

[Omega Torsk]

Ugh, Chris Hepler, why did you say that? There was no reason for you to say it! Were you just in a particularly grim mood yesterday? Or were you intentionally trying to frak with the fanbase?

How many of you think that afterwards, behind the scenes, the other devs confronted him with, "What the HELL, man!?"

[christrek1982]

well if this is true I'm off to uninstall all my ME game ME is now dead I didn't what ME 600 shepards return but I had hoped that the charecter you play for 5-7 years would meet a better end than death death or death mabe I should stick with non story driven game until this bleak = artistic mature BS is done with.

[Simotech]

Hepler pls

[Wilkco]

Well I suppose it keeps people active in the forums as I had noticed a lot posts about recently.

[chemiclord]

Omega Torsk wrote...

Ugh, Chris Hepler, why did you say that? There was no reason for you to say it! Were you just in a particularly grim mood yesterday? Or were you intentionally trying to frak with the fanbase?

How many of you think that afterwards, behind the scenes, the other devs confronted him with, "What the HELL, man!?"

None of them.

Because they were probably thinking the same thing.  If you want to conjure the scenario that Shepard bleeds out after breathing, they've given up trying to convince you otherwise.  Go ahead and be miserable if that's what you want.

[RethenX]

I just found out recently that a contagion of foot in mouth disease has broken out in several Bioware offices. On a serious note, Shepard lives if you picked Destroy guys

Modifié par RethenX, 15 juillet 2012 - 07:09 .

[Phydeaux314]

1. The breath scene was specifically added because they wanted to convey that it was possible for Shepard to survive.

2. They stated that "it's possible that it was simply a last gasp before dying" at the convention because they didn't want to force people with high EMS taking the destruction option to have the hero live. Some people prefer tales where the protagonist dies.

3. The entire point of the endings is laying out what happens, then leaving the consequences of those events up to the viewer. There are literally billions of meaningful permutations in playthroughs that would make even a wide collection of ending cinematics or slideshows not fit most people's characters.

We're being told to make our own ending not because they're lazy, but because there is no way to fully address all the possible different ways that our characters could have evolved over the course of three games with thousands of choices. I would have personally loved an ending that managed to explain the consequences of all those choices... but it would have taken them many months to even begin addressing them, and that was development time they didn't have.

The story of Commander Shepard is your story as much as it is theirs. So you tell me: What happened to your Commander?

[alsonamedbort]

christrek1982 wrote...

well if this is true I'm off to uninstall all my ME game ME is now dead I didn't what ME 600 shepards return but I had hoped that the charecter you play for 5-7 years would meet a better end than death death or death mabe I should stick with non story driven game until this bleak = artistic mature BS is done with.

first of all, what?

second of all, it's not true.  it was merely stated that it was "possible."

[blue water]

RethenX wrote...

I just found out recently that a contagion of foot in mouth disease has broken out in several Bioware offices. On a serious note, Shepard lives if you picked Destroy guys

:D:D 

[Mad-Hamlet]

No she doesn't.

[Massa FX]

Too much trouble for 1 slide showing Shepard in a hospital if you went with destroy and got the gasp. Just art. 1 slide. Leave EC the same. Add 1 slide.

[Anvos]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

"The panelists at SDCC specifically said that the "breath" scene was put in the game to allow gamers who wanted some hope to have it. The "last gasp" comment reflects one a few interpretations, none of them prescribed."

________________________


5:47
Q: What's the motivation with the teaser survival of Shepard in one ending?
5:47
Sylvia said "We were looking at all the endings, and we were wondering if they were TOO bleak. For fans who scraped every last thing off the galaxy map, we wanted to give them a little beacon of hope."
5:48
"It was really hard to let go of Shepard for us too, so it was kinda just for us too."
5:48
Ley said "We did make it ambiguous on purpose..."

Hepler: "It could just be a last gasp before death, yeah."




So there you go folks, the only reason that breath scene exists is because they wanted to outright kill Shepard in every ending, but new they'd be flamed for it. So instead, they left players with a speculative feeling that Shepard somehow survives, that there is hope. When in reality, there isn't.

By making it ambiguous it allowed them to do two things that would normally contradict each other:
1) Give players some hope that there is a possible ending where Shepard survives.
2) Not convey any sort of "concrete" evidence that s/he survives as to not betray their artistic vision.

This is the reason I feared was behind the scene, which is why I could never view this breath scene positively. (Seriously I'm usually a huge optimist)

I take the writer's intent as canon, and it's clear their intent here was to kill Shepard off.

SO BE IT!

None of this actually says shepard dies and pretty much confirms what the majority of people had already determined that the final scence was to essentially make it so high ems destroy ends in allowing the player to head cannon their future for shepard.  Plus if they really wanted it to be shepard dead but still ambigous they would have just left it at the burnt N7 helmet scene.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Look, it's quite obvious here that Mac Walters and Casey Hudson don't have the writing talent to construct a quality ending to a trilogy. This is given the fact that despite the EC DLC a brand new player to the ME3, who has played the entire series multiple times, stayed away from the forums and broohaha sent me an e-mail asking two things:

* was Shepard indoctrinated?
* did the ending occur in a dream?

The guy isn't dumb. The guy is in theatre. He makes a living at it. He also teaches. So if it's this unclear with the EC, it's bad.

I had to explain to him about the various Tweets and comments at PAX, where certain things were made a bit clearer. See, he was still taken back about that dream thing with his armor going from red Inferno Armor to the charred N7. How did that happen? That's when everything got dreamy and slow motion. So I had to explain that Indoctrination had been declared dead by Twitter or video, I can't remember.

They didn't know how to have Shepard survive and retire him, because if they did, it would have made that one ending the default ending everyone would pick. I mean I would. **** the Geth. Survival instincts take over. EDI? Sorry. If it meant surviving and reuniting with my partner, that's the choice: high EMS destroy.

If everything one cared about had been taken away or destroyed? Nothing to live for? High EMS Renegade Control. Let the politicians feel the butt hurt under a totalitarian dictatorship.

Synthesis is just too creepy.

Bottom line it was totally cowardly and lazy writing by Mac and Casey. They took a story where the hero had been overcoming odds and then just stomped him like an insignificant gnat, but then didn't want to give that appearance because of the 50% who wanted the hero to live, so they throw that bone, but don't even want to commit to that. Just please keep those two away from any future stories. Promote them into administration and get them away from story writing altogether.

The hero should have lived in the destroy ending if the player had over 5500 military assets (this is where if you have 100% readiness it says chances are even). The hero should have died if the player did not. And screw the player who wants to have their hero die with over 6000 military assets. They can head canon suicide.

The real issue is that the Crucible was bad enough, but then Starbrat really took the cake for bad writing. The Crucible should have done one thing. It should have been the superweapon it was advertised to be. But they were afraid of a videogamey ending and wanted to get artsy with it, which led to 13 minutes of pure suckage.