218 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

First they give us the breath scene and tell us to speculate. Then they tell us that the breath scene means that Shepard survives. Then the EC comes out, and we see our LI not put Shepard's name up, then we get the breath scene and it's said we get a reunion. Now we're told it could be Shepard's last breath again and to speculate. That to me is the big middle finger.

If you did get a middle finger then Shepard wouldn't have survived yet you're the one giving the middle finger because you didn't get what you wanted.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... 

I'm calling it like I see it. The ending is one of the worst written endings I've seen or read. When you leave a trilogy up to a person to head canon, it shows you don't know how to write an ending, or that you just don't give a ****. 

I know you haven't read that many novels/comics or watched that many movies/shows based on that statement.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... 
 
The ending is still the biggest drawback of the series. The EC sweetens it, but you're still left with a bitter aftertaste because Mac has to have his Red Green and Blue art.

Yet the actual "bitter aftertaste" are the small amount of people complaining still after the hand holding was over with.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 16 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

I love it when people say that ME3 had a horrible story, it didn't. However it did fumble the ball at the five yard line. 

This. For a football analogy. Your team is down by 2 points. (Due to the deadline) Your driving into a stiff headwind, but your team has executed a near perfect drive for 75 yards. You just need a field goal to win, but due to the wind you need to center up the ball which means you must run one more play. In comes a new QB and new HB with a secret play that no one knows about. They fumble the ball and the defense recovers and the other team runs out the clock.

So what does everyone remember? Do they remember the 75 yd drive? No. They remember the last play of the 75 yd drive that cost the game.

The EC showed how well each of the linemen blocked on the play and how no one else missed their assignments on that play, but in the end the ball still was fumbled.

[Blueprotoss]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I'm not asking for them to be flung sh*t at but they made a mistake and they need to own up to their loyal fanbase about that. They need to publicly take the heat and actually say "We made a mistake and we're sorry for that" instead of ignoring the present problem.

What's the point of an apology if they don't mean it? I'd find that *more* insulting tbh...

That at least recognizes that the fans are pissed.

People will always complain about something and a small group of people overreacting isn't needed.

[shurikenmanta]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I'm not asking for them to be flung sh*t at but they made a mistake and they need to own up to their loyal fanbase about that. They need to publicly take the heat and actually say "We made a mistake and we're sorry for that" instead of ignoring the present problem.

What's the point of an apology if they don't mean it? I'd find that *more* insulting tbh...

That at least recognizes that the fans are pissed.

They've already acknowledged that though. The EC was created as an answer to that.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Blueprotoss wrote...
I know you haven't read that many novels/comics or watched that many movies/shows based on that statement.

I can guarantee I've read more novels and watched more movies and seen more shows than you have.

[ld1449]

shurikenmanta wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

About the only thing they can do now to salvage this thing is to call the ending a dream, and write a completely different ending that makes sense and sell it as DLC. But they won't because Hudson and Walters have this dream going that their ending is the bestest art evar.

It was already salvaged with the EC. The majority of folks have accepted the gesture and moved on, it's only the rabids that continue to fight on now.

Hardly salvaged. No longer one of the worst literary pieces ever made in any medium? Sure. But as far as replayability goes (ME's staple selling point) even a good portion of the people who like the EC can hardly bring themselves to play it again. Let alone the people who as you say have moved on and probably haven't even looked at the game again.

It was never 'one of the worst literary pieces ever made in any medium'. You haven't been exposed to much media if you believe that.

Oh believe me I read ALOT I watch ALOT. Things have started out bad and been bad (Twilight for example) Things have been going good and ended on a Meh note (Sopranos, or the infamous Lost) Things have been going great and writers write themselves in a corner (House)

But I have NEVER witnessed ANYTHING even remotely coming CLOSE to the level of FAIL that ME3's ending reached. It DESTROYED an entire franchise/genre in less than 10 minutes. Not even Lost was able to acomplish that.

And that's why its one of the worst, it took a good sci fi, a good story, one that many would have even said was great and brought it down to the level of trash in many peoples opinions. now with the EC its at the level of LOST, good but ending on a Meh note. When your FIX has to struggle for a simple "Meh."

Yea it was bad. I have yet to hear any one person offer up a legitimate example for something that brought down a whole genre, years/7 novels worth of work in MINUTES.

[ld1449]

Reptilian Rob wrote...


I love it when people say that ME3 had a horrible story, it didn't. However it did fumble the ball at the five yard line. 

People who are saying it's a horrible story (the entire plot) havn't been reading much literature or watching much film. 

Probably should rephrase. I meant specifically the ending (hence why I only mentioned the EC) ME3 as a whole was good. Not as good as its predecesors I think, but good regardless (excluding ending)

[shurikenmanta]

ld1449 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

About the only thing they can do now to salvage this thing is to call the ending a dream, and write a completely different ending that makes sense and sell it as DLC. But they won't because Hudson and Walters have this dream going that their ending is the bestest art evar.

It was already salvaged with the EC. The majority of folks have accepted the gesture and moved on, it's only the rabids that continue to fight on now.

Hardly salvaged. No longer one of the worst literary pieces ever made in any medium? Sure. But as far as replayability goes (ME's staple selling point) even a good portion of the people who like the EC can hardly bring themselves to play it again. Let alone the people who as you say have moved on and probably haven't even looked at the game again.

It was never 'one of the worst literary pieces ever made in any medium'. You haven't been exposed to much media if you believe that.

Oh believe me I read ALOT I watch ALOT. Things have started out bad and been bad (Twilight for example) Things have been going good and ended on a Meh note (Sopranos, or the infamous Lost) Things have been going great and writers write themselves in a corner (House)

But I have NEVER witnessed ANYTHING even remotely coming CLOSE to the level of FAIL that ME3's ending reached. It DESTROYED an entire franchise/genre in less than 10 minutes. Not even Lost was able to acomplish that.

And that's why its one of the worst, it took a good sci fi, a good story, one that many would have even said was great and brought it down to the level of trash in many peoples opinions. now with the EC its at the level of LOST, good but ending on a Meh note. When your FIX has to struggle for a simple "Meh."

Yea it was bad. I have yet to hear any one person offer up a legitimate example for something that brought down a whole genre, years/7 novels worth of work in MINUTES.

Eh. It didn't destroy the genre or series for me and I think a lot of other people also feel the same way.

I think the reaction is just a little out of proportion.

[ld1449]

Blueprotoss wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

First they give us the breath scene and tell us to speculate. Then they tell us that the breath scene means that Shepard survives. Then the EC comes out, and we see our LI not put Shepard's name up, then we get the breath scene and it's said we get a reunion. Now we're told it could be Shepard's last breath again and to speculate. That to me is the big middle finger.

If you did get a middle finger then Shepard wouldn't have survived yet you're the one giving the middle finger because you didn't get what you wanted.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... 

I'm calling it like I see it. The ending is one of the worst written endings I've seen or read. When you leave a trilogy up to a person to head canon, it shows you don't know how to write an ending, or that you just don't give a ****. 

I know you haven't read that many novels/comics or watched that many movies/shows based on that statement.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... 
 
The ending is still the biggest drawback of the series. The EC sweetens it, but you're still left with a bitter aftertaste because Mac has to have his Red Green and Blue art.

Yet the actual "bitter aftertaste" are the small amount of people complaining still after the hand holding was over with.

"Small" amount of people? You must be new here.

Look around, there are as many, or more (considering how a good chunk remain in the IT threads and a few others) complaining as those that are hapy or complaining about the complainers.

[shurikenmanta]

ld1449 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

First they give us the breath scene and tell us to speculate. Then they tell us that the breath scene means that Shepard survives. Then the EC comes out, and we see our LI not put Shepard's name up, then we get the breath scene and it's said we get a reunion. Now we're told it could be Shepard's last breath again and to speculate. That to me is the big middle finger.

If you did get a middle finger then Shepard wouldn't have survived yet you're the one giving the middle finger because you didn't get what you wanted.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... 

I'm calling it like I see it. The ending is one of the worst written endings I've seen or read. When you leave a trilogy up to a person to head canon, it shows you don't know how to write an ending, or that you just don't give a ****. 

I know you haven't read that many novels/comics or watched that many movies/shows based on that statement.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... 
 
The ending is still the biggest drawback of the series. The EC sweetens it, but you're still left with a bitter aftertaste because Mac has to have his Red Green and Blue art.

Yet the actual "bitter aftertaste" are the small amount of people complaining still after the hand holding was over with.

"Small" amount of people? You must be new here.

Look around, there are as many, or more (considering how a good chunk remain in the IT threads and a few others) complaining as those that are hapy or complaining about the complainers.

The number's taken a pretty steep dive post-EC. More and more people filter into the 'getting on with their lives' camp.

[mauro2222]

It certainly cheapens the Reapers, destroys Sovereign's and Harbinger's characters, it's thematically incoherent and is a cheap and lazy way to solve the plot ("the created will always rebel against its creator" anyone?).

Modifié par mauro2222, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:13 .

[ld1449]

shurikenmanta wrote...


Eh. It didn't destroy the genre or series for me and I think a lot of other people also feel the same way.

I think the reaction is just a little out of proportion.

The fact that the reaction can be considered "Out of proportion" is telling in and of itself.

When was the last time any literary medium got THIS much of a reaction from people? Gamers or otherwise.

WoW? Not that I've ever heard of.

George Martin in AsoIF, barely a hiccup

Sir arthur Conan Doyle with the original endings to Sherlock Holmes is the ONLY thing that comes close. And even then it wasn't an outrage because of the quality but rather because they wanted him to continue the works revolving around Sherlock.

I personally cannot recall anything remotely close to either the Retake movement or the IT theory where fans have come up with a COMPLETELY different headcannon to outright REJECT the ending. Even with Lost as hated as it was people did headcannons to EXPLAIN to themselves how the ending worked, not to outright REJECT it and bleach it from their heads.

[Father_Jerusalem]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I'm not asking for them to be flung sh*t at but they made a mistake and they need to own up to their loyal fanbase about that. They need to publicly take the heat and actually say "We made a mistake and we're sorry for that" instead of ignoring the present problem.

What's the point of an apology if they don't mean it? I'd find that *more* insulting tbh...

That at least recognizes that the fans are pissed.

The acknowledged that with Dr. Ray's letter to the fans.

They attempted to use the EC as an apology. 

Yet, here you are, still pissed. At this point, there's nothing that BioWare could do to satisfy you, so they're simply not going to bother. And I, for one, applaud that decision.

[ld1449]

shurikenmanta wrote...


The number's taken a pretty steep dive post-EC. More and more people filter into the 'getting on with their lives' camp.

A camp which includes "Washing my hands of Bioware." People.

I know alot of people that have returned the ME3 as well as ME1 and 2.

So I reiterate, hardly salvaged.

[ld1449]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...


The acknowledged that with Dr. Ray's letter to the fans.

They attempted to use the EC as an apology. 

Yet, here you are, still pissed. At this point, there's nothing that BioWare could do to satisfy you, so they're simply not going to bother. And I, for one, applaud that decision.

Dr. Rays letter says that fans needed more closure, not that they're angry.

The EC was attempted as a fix as cheap as could be. I'd call it mollifying rather than apologising.

They could very easilly satisfy most people by not giving three/four flavors of failure with a different set of sprinkles.

And I for one don't applaud that decision. Now lets see how much our applause/lack thereof means to one another.

[xxBabyMonkeyxx]

Haha funny. Of course we didn't get anything out of SDCC except more speculation. That seems to be BioWare's MO lately.

[shurikenmanta]

ld1449 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...


Eh. It didn't destroy the genre or series for me and I think a lot of other people also feel the same way.

I think the reaction is just a little out of proportion.

The fact that the reaction can be considered "Out of proportion" is telling in and of itself.

When was the last time any literary medium got THIS much of a reaction from people? Gamers or otherwise.

WoW? Not that I've ever heard of.

George Martin in AsoIF, barely a hiccup

Sir arthur Conan Doyle with the original endings to Sherlock Holmes is the ONLY thing that comes close. And even then it wasn't an outrage because of the quality but rather because they wanted him to continue the works revolving around Sherlock.

I personally cannot recall anything remotely close to either the Retake movement or the IT theory where fans have come up with a COMPLETELY different headcannon to outright REJECT the ending. Even with Lost as hated as it was people did headcannons to EXPLAIN to themselves how the ending worked, not to outright REJECT it and bleach it from their heads.

You overestimate the actual level of anger regarding this.

I think you'll find if an actual professional study was done, as opposed to Metacritic bombings and BSN ragepolls, the proportion of folks extremely unhappy would probably fall into the kind of level of Lost, Sopranos, et al.

Remember, the noisiest people aren't necessarily the majority. They're just the easiest to hear.

[ld1449]

shurikenmanta wrote...

You overestimate the actual level of anger regarding this.

I think you'll find if an actual professional study was done, as opposed to Metacritic bombings and BSN ragepolls, the proportion of folks extremely unhappy would probably fall into the kind of level of Lost, Sopranos, et al.

Remember, the noisiest people aren't necessarily the majority. They're just the easiest to hear.

Could be right. I'll be the first one to say that no legitimately professional study has been taken but the fact remains, say all you want about the loudest being the easiest to hear, the people pissed off at the endings were louder than anything I can think of off hand revolving around a literary medium of any kind.

Which is extraordinary for Gamers I think since the group is notorious for never taking much of a stance on anything and since most people don't take the social group at all seriously.

[Reptilian Rob]

ld1449 wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...


I love it when people say that ME3 had a horrible story, it didn't. However it did fumble the ball at the five yard line. 

People who are saying it's a horrible story (the entire plot) havn't been reading much literature or watching much film. 

Probably should rephrase. I meant specifically the ending (hence why I only mentioned the EC) ME3 as a whole was good. Not as good as its predecesors I think, but good regardless (excluding ending)

Oh, I agree. 

[shurikenmanta]

ld1449 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

You overestimate the actual level of anger regarding this.

I think you'll find if an actual professional study was done, as opposed to Metacritic bombings and BSN ragepolls, the proportion of folks extremely unhappy would probably fall into the kind of level of Lost, Sopranos, et al.

Remember, the noisiest people aren't necessarily the majority. They're just the easiest to hear.

Could be right. I'll be the first one to say that no legitimately professional study has been taken but the fact remains, say all you want about the loudest being the easiest to hear, the people pissed off at the endings were louder than anything I can think of off hand revolving around a literary medium of any kind.

Which is extraordinary for Gamers I think since the group is notorious for never taking much of a stance on anything and since most people don't take the social group at all seriously.

I'd be curious to see how many average Joes on the street know about the ME fiasco. Generally if you ask four or five times you'll eventually find someone who knows about the Lost/Sopranos fiasco. Dunno if it'd be the same for ME since it's so outside the usual core demographic.

[ld1449]

shurikenmanta wrote...


I'd be curious to see how many average Joes on the street know about the ME fiasco. Generally if you ask four or five times you'll eventually find someone who knows about the Lost/Sopranos fiasco. Dunno if it'd be the same for ME since it's so outside the usual core demographic.

I know that when I went to the letter writing campaign and sent a phisical letter to Bioware to change the endings back in the early days of retake I walked into the post office to get an envelope, wrote down the adress then walked over to the teller. He looked down at the letter, looked at the adress then looked at me and said

"Didn't like the ending either huh?"

:lol:

That made my day.

That was most likely an isolated incident of course, but the post office worker looked well into his fifties so I don't believe he's a gamer.

[Lucrece]

shurikenmanta wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

I'm not asking for them to be flung sh*t at but they made a mistake and they need to own up to their loyal fanbase about that. They need to publicly take the heat and actually say "We made a mistake and we're sorry for that" instead of ignoring the present problem.

What's the point of an apology if they don't mean it? I'd find that *more* insulting tbh...

That at least recognizes that the fans are pissed.

They've already acknowledged that though. The EC was created as an answer to that.

The EC was created to establish a conversation in a way they could sell it.

They said we needed more time to say goodbye. That we needed more clarification. That's not what people wanted overwhelmingly.

What people wanted was to say goodbye to Shepard in a DIFFERENT way.

It's as if I'm annoyed that I got a Cuban sandwich when I wanted a meatball one, and you proceed to just put sauce on the Cuban sandwich and tell me that it seems I just needed sauce. You're warping the sentiment to make it convenient.

It's a typical move in diplomacy -- if you don't want to cede ground, then you just transform/invent your opponent's position so it seems that you're meeting them half-way when you actually have not.

What people mostly disliked about the endings hardly changed. We didn't need a clarification on Shepard's death or the consequences of choosing the one ambiguous option to live.

Modifié par Lucrece, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:46 .

[ld1449]

Lucrece wrote...


The EC was created to establish a conversation in a way they could sell it.

They said we needed more time to say goodbye. That we needed more clarification. That's not what people wanted overwhelmingly.

What people wanted was to say goodbye to Shepard in a DIFFERENT way.

It's as if I'm annoyed that I got a Cuban sandwich when I wanted a meatball one, and you proceed to just put sauce on the Cuban sandwich and tell me that it seems I just needed sauce. You're warping the sentiment to make it convenient.

It's a typical move in diplomacy -- if you don't want to cede ground, then you just transform/invent your opponent's position so it seems that you're meeting them half-way when you actually have not.

Any theories on why they wouldn't want to cede ground? Call me naieve but pissing off your consumers seems like ****** poor foresight on how well your future sales will do.

I would seriously welcome any legitimately sounding theory on why this just isn't rolling in Bioware HQ

[Conniving_Eagle]

Remember when people complained about the Fallout:3 ending, and Bethesda decided to change it AND add a plethora of new content? Those were the good days. I Lol at the people who act like EC is unprecedented in gaming.

[Lucrece]

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Remember when people complained about the Fallout:3 ending, and Bethesda decided to change it AND add a plethora of new content? Those were the good days. I Lol at the people who act like EC is unprecedented in gaming.

 

Because money isn't everything. It's why the UFC suddenly hasn't taken a turn to appeal to women even though expanding the market to the other half of the population would be profitable. It is personal, and their personal preference was an ending like Sherlock Holmes and Lara Croft where they hit the franchise/project reset button by killing off the main character.

It's a way of telling people "Yeah, forget about asking us for more of popular character, because he's dead now. Now, pay attention to our new idea." Obviously, like the death of Sherlock Holmes and Lara Croft, it didn't go over particularly well.

I just don't get why it's hard to close on a character without killing him off. It is possible to just say "That's it for his era -- Shepard's saga is closed. The new storylines will be on another timeline."

Modifié par Lucrece, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:54 .