269 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

Yes

I loved both DA2 and DAO. I loved ME1 and ME2. I hate ME3 with a passion.

Bioware is still 2 x 1 in my book. I also think that the ME3 ending fiasco will make them a lot more willing to listen - and cater to - old fans in the DA universe.

I'm really looking forward to DA3.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 05 août 2012 - 07:18 .

[Malsumis]

No.

But not because of lack of talent, I just don't believe they are heading in the same direction as my interests.

[Nefla]

No. Not even close.

[Sharn]

I was pretty excited when I heard how the game will cover a lot more of Thedas, but I just found out that it will feature a fully voiced protagonist along with the conversation wheel. Character customization is basically non existent roleplaying wise, just like in Mass Effect and DA2. I didn't like Mass Effect a lot because of Shepherd with his boring voice and lack of emotion even with dialogue options. I also didn't like how DA2 had three personalities to choose from: Good, bad, or sarcastic. Even if you mixed good and sarcastic or something it just made you slightly bipolar.

Why can't we go back to Origins where we had like 7 dialogue options in every conversation that varied in morality? I would gladly sacrifice protagonist voice acting for more than 3 dialogue paths. The main protagonist of DA3 will mostly likely have a boring emotionless voice just like Shepherd.

[Rawgrim]

I know they CAN deliver. I am uncertain if they are going to deliver, though. I will wait and see what happens.

[ianvillan]

The main question should be is what will Bioware deliver, because I believe that they will deliver a game, will the game be good and have care and passion for rpg fans put into it or will it be made quickly and to appeal to the masses.

So far from everything that has been mentioned on the forums it looks like another DA2 clone, This is the direction Bioware wants to go and they dont want any feedback from us about the game at all.

[Spanishcat]

Will BioWare deliver with DAIII?

A more apt question for me is; when have BioWare ever failed to deliver? KotOR, Jade Empire, the Mass Effect trilogy, DA:O and DAII - I've loved 'em all. Have they been perfect? No, but then nothing is so that's not a failing.

DAII, for me, had one major issue; how Kirkwall was used. Hawke's (and the city's) narrative? Loved it, especially Jo Wyatt's FemHawke which for me blows both Shepards clean out of the water.

I was nerdishly against a talky PC when it was announced (I posted here in detail re why it was a bad idea... ) for DAII, but the implementation was superb (I was wrong), so III's easily one of my most eagerly anticipated titles of [next year?].

[Winged Silver]

On Dragon Age 3, I surprisingly have a lot of faith, and it mostly stems from what everyone is calling their biggest mistakes.

While I enjoyed both DA games, it's obvious most people prefered Origins, and Bioware is aware of this. They've also said that they noted that the biggest issues people seemed to have in DAII involved the reused maps (blech), the lack of customization in companions armor (they've got a pretty neat idea on this I'm actually optimistic for), and player's feelings of not mattering in the storyline (I'm not sure I completely agree with this, but that's just me).

The other 'mistake' seems to revolve around the ending of Mass Effect 3. While yes, the original was rather abrupt, I think we can give applause that Bioware actually took the time to create an extended ending, and gave it away for free. Some of you may say it was just them covering their backs, but whether or not that's true, it doesn't matter because they listened and did it, which is more than a lot of other companies would have done.

Now that Bioware has dealt with these two fiascos, I think they really have the potential to pull together a great game in Dragon Age 3. (I just wish the elves didn't look like bugs in DAII. Zevran! What did they do to you?! O.o)

So my faith remains, and I will certainly show my support and pre-order DA3.

[hussey 92]

Winged Silver wrote...
I will certainly show my support and pre-order DA3.

After the last two games, I really suggest you reconsider this

[Plaintiff]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
JRPG cinematic games and Final Fantasy 7 days are long over.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Holy crap, is this a joke?

You know the Final Fantasy series didn't end with 7, right? There are fourteen "main" installments (with a fifteenth on the way), and countless spinoffs. The Final Fantasy franchise is financially successful and receives a great deal of critical acclaim both internationally and in its home market of Japan. And let's not forget Square Enix's other crazy-popular IPs, like Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts, both of which are (with some very minor exceptions) linear-story, fixed-protagonist action-rpg series.

Capcom makes a ton of games across a wide range of genres that have nothing to do with RPGs, so the fact that they made Dragon's Dogma is neither here nor there, and it is certainly not indicative of any larger trend.

There are also dozen of western examples that show that linear-story games with fixed protagonists are still going strong, regardless of genre.

I love how you compare games to movies and novels, citing the greater expense of a game as foundation for the claim that it should be different every time you play, but totally ignore the fact that people will happily read the same books and watch the same movies multiple times, even though the story never changes. And the same is true of videogames. Do you know why? It's because a quality story in any format is inherently replayable, with or without gimmicks.

[Winged Silver]

hussey 92 wrote...

Winged Silver wrote...
I will certainly show my support and pre-order DA3.

After the last two games, I really suggest you reconsider this

Oh I apologize, can you redirect me to other RPG games of DAO and ME and ME2's caliber? While I most definitely had issues with the last two games published, they were still enjoyable experiences for me, and I certainly don't regret playing either. Bioware admitted they made mistakes here and there. Will they do anything about them? Well that's just the thing; we don't know. But I do hope they will learn from their mistakes and make a game worth my money.

[Spanishcat]

People aren't seriously questioning whether ME3 was a cracking game... are they? Even if people have petty gripes about the end/s, the rest was surely first-class by anyone's books.

Anyhoo, I'll be pre-ordering DA3 and supporting it after launch.

[ItsTheTruth]

Spanishcat wrote...

People aren't seriously questioning whether ME3 was a cracking game... are they? Even if people have petty gripes about the end/s, the rest was surely first-class by anyone's books.

No. ME3 had the best combat of the series with a very enjoyable gameplay but all the remaining RPG aspects of the game were seriously lacking. The story was bad, everybody acted like an idiot including Shepard, the dialogue was stupid and more like an interactive movie at times than a "Bioware" game. Cutscenes with more explosions than a Michael Bay movie. The same enemies reused over and over again. A world built entirely on ME1 and ME2 with little innovation, but no respect for those games. The damn kid. And of course, the ending. Overall: 6/10.

But to be fair, ME3 is first-class GOTY material compared to DA2.

Modifié par ItsTheTruth, 11 août 2012 - 12:58 .

[hussey 92]

Winged Silver wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

Winged Silver wrote...
I will certainly show my support and pre-order DA3.

After the last two games, I really suggest you reconsider this

Oh I apologize, can you redirect me to other RPG games of DAO and ME and ME2's caliber? While I most definitely had issues with the last two games published, they were still enjoyable experiences for me, and I certainly don't regret playing either. Bioware admitted they made mistakes here and there. Will they do anything about them? Well that's just the thing; we don't know. But I do hope they will learn from their mistakes and make a game worth my money.

ME2 was more of a third person shooter with some rpg elements. And as good as Origins was, there are deffently more RPGs out there (Skyrim, Witcher 2, Kingdoms of Amular, Dark Souls, Fallout 3, Dragons Dogma)

And Bioware may have admitted to a few mistakes, but since their still going after the COD crowd I doubt much will change.

[LobselVith8]

hussey 92 wrote...

And Bioware may have admitted to a few mistakes, but since their still going after the COD crowd I doubt much will change.

It seems like a lot will stay the same - it's already been addressed the dialogue wheel, the paraphrasing, the auto-lines, the voiced protagonist, the art style, and other elements from Dragon Age II will return for the third installment. Although the developers have promised choices will matter, we saw how they handled that in Legacy and Mark of the Assassin: choices that lead to the same outcome; no different than the end of Dragon Age II.

I think it's disappointing that so many elements will return from Dragon Age II. The paraphrasing and the auto-lines kept me from having the protagonist be my character when I never knew what he was going to say, the darkspawn didn't look as menacing, the plot often railroaded Hawke into specific directions with no imput from me, Hawke was forced to be religiously Andrastian, and my choices rarely felt like they mattered.

Rectonning royal boons (like the Dalish boon and the Magi boon), bringing characters back to life, ignoring player choices at their whim... I don't like the direction Bioware is taking the franchise in.

[Spanishcat]

ItsTheTruth wrote...

No. ME3 had the best combat of the series with a very enjoyable gameplay but all the remaining RPG aspects of the game were seriously lacking. The story was bad, everybody acted like an idiot including Shepard, the dialogue was stupid and more like an interactive movie at times than a "Bioware" game. Cutscenes with more explosions than a Michael Bay movie. The same enemies reused over and over again. A world built entirely on ME1 and ME2 with little innovation, but no respect for those games. The damn kid. And of course, the ending. Overall: 6/10.

But to be fair, ME3 is first-class GOTY material compared to DA2.

I think 'I disagree [about ME3 and DA2]' just about sums up my response - I thoroughly enjoyed both products. But this isn't the ME3 board so I'll keep schtum and not go into any detail.

DAII had its faults, sure, but for me those were largely down to it being a rushjob; the world suffered (too small, re-used levels), but I probably admired and enjoyed the arc of Hawke and Kirkwall more than the Warden's. DAII also left Thedas in an interesting state, so I'm looking forward to seeing how BioWare resolve the upheaval.

[Winged Silver]

hussey 92 wrote...

Winged Silver wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

Winged Silver wrote...
I will certainly show my support and pre-order DA3.

After the last two games, I really suggest you reconsider this

Oh I apologize, can you redirect me to other RPG games of DAO and ME and ME2's caliber? While I most definitely had issues with the last two games published, they were still enjoyable experiences for me, and I certainly don't regret playing either. Bioware admitted they made mistakes here and there. Will they do anything about them? Well that's just the thing; we don't know. But I do hope they will learn from their mistakes and make a game worth my money.

ME2 was more of a third person shooter with some rpg elements. And as good as Origins was, there are deffently more RPGs out there (Skyrim, Witcher 2, Kingdoms of Amular, Dark Souls, Fallout 3, Dragons Dogma)

And Bioware may have admitted to a few mistakes, but since their still going after the COD crowd I doubt much will change.

I felt the ME2 had a decent amount of choices one could make, specifically regarding treatment of squad mates. Skyrim/Fallout 3 are fun, but its impossible to really feel close to any of the other NPCs mainly because of the lack of real conversation (basically it's very different; I prefer Bioware's style). Dark Souls...no. I will play that game the next time I wish to feel the need to hurl my controller. and KoA....reminds me of WoW )

There is a way to strike a balance between the differing parties of play style. Because Bioware made two games of questionable nature (two games that many people like myself still found fun, despite their flaws) so many people are assuming that Bioware is forsaking its fans and hopping on the other train. I don't see why this is so. I see no reason for them to not look at the past games (mainly ME3 and DA2) and not take a lesson. Those two games had very different problems, so it's not really fair to say that because ME3 had issues, and Da2 had issues, then they didn't learn anything! I think they've learned a lot. And as I've stated before, DA3 could potentially be horrendous, but it could potentially be really good too. Keep your mind open.

[themikefest]

Spanishcat wrote...

People aren't seriously questioning whether ME3 was a cracking game... are they? Even if people have petty gripes about the end/s, the rest was surely first-class by anyone's books.

Anyhoo, I'll be pre-ordering DA3 and supporting it after launch.

I will too in fact I will purchase the CE if they have one

I have not lost faith in bioware for the simple fact I enjoy their games, with countless playthroughs, and am sure any future game that is released(da3) will be enjoyable for me anyways

[Cyne]

adam1986shadow wrote...

When it comes to Dragon Age 3? 

Absolutely. I think they excel in what they do and DA3 will be no different. Am I excusing legitimate faults in DA2 like the repetitive areas? No, but I do think they were largly a product of a rushed schedule, and not an inherent lack of talent or poor ideas. Given enough time and relatively liberal working environment, DA3 could be really great. 

If you want to see a truly bad game, look no further than the Last Remnant.

Modifié par Cyne, 11 août 2012 - 10:43 .

[reginamb]

Sharn wrote...

I was pretty excited when I heard how the game will cover a lot more of Thedas, but I just found out that it will feature a fully voiced protagonist along with the conversation wheel. Character customization is basically non existent roleplaying wise, just like in Mass Effect and DA2. I didn't like Mass Effect a lot because of Shepherd with his boring voice and lack of emotion even with dialogue options. I also didn't like how DA2 had three personalities to choose from: Good, bad, or sarcastic. Even if you mixed good and sarcastic or something it just made you slightly bipolar.

Why can't we go back to Origins where we had like 7 dialogue options in every conversation that varied in morality? I would gladly sacrifice protagonist voice acting for more than 3 dialogue paths. The main protagonist of DA3 will mostly likely have a boring emotionless voice just like Shepherd.

^this

[Sejborg]

No. I don't think they will deliver.

But I hope they will.

[Johnny20]

No. At this point I'd be surprised if Dragon Age III even sees the light of day.

[Spanishcat]

Cyne wrote...

Absolutely. I think they excel in what they do and DA3 will be no different. Am I excusing legitimate faults in DA2 like the repetitive areas? No, but I do think they were largly a product of a rushed schedule, and not an inherent lack of talent or poor ideas. Given enough time and relatively liberal working environment, DA3 could be really great. 

themikefest wrote...


I have not lost faith in bioware for the simple fact I enjoy their games, with countless playthroughs, and am sure any future game that is released(da3) will be enjoyable for me anyways

That right there is evidence that not all BioWare 'fans' around here are petty, selfish, narrow minded and resentful. Kudos, especially to Cyne re DAII.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Plaintiff wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
JRPG cinematic games and Final Fantasy 7 days are long over.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Holy crap, is this a joke?

Nope.

Plaintiff wrote...
You know the Final Fantasy series didn't end with 7, right? There are fourteen "main" installments (with a fifteenth on the way), and countless spinoffs. The Final Fantasy franchise is financially successful and receives a great deal of critical acclaim both internationally and in its home market of Japan. And let's not forget Square Enix's other crazy-popular IPs, like Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts, both of which are (with some very minor exceptions) linear-story, fixed-protagonist action-rpg series.

Yes I know. Square Enix and Final Fantasy series are struggling now. Perhaps this articles will help you.

Kouji Taguchi tweets some harsh wordsOften
companies will refuse to admit to any weaknesses, especially companies
from Japan, which makes the recent tweet from Square Enix executive
Kouji Taguchi a refreshing dose of honesty. 17 hours ago he tweeted
that:
 
 
"Because we merged with Eidos and had games like Tomb Raider, Deus Ex, and Hitman,
as a company we were able to keep face. But the decline in Japanese
titles was almost humiliating. This has been a week where I worried
daily about how we can fix this."
 
With the harsh reception of Final Fantasy XIII and Final Fantasy XIV
it’s no wonder that Taguchi is feeling worried. Hopefully this can be
turned into a positive where we see Square Enix putting extra polish on
the upcoming Final Fantasy XIII – 2, though personally my
advice for the company would be to work with Eidos in revamping the
entire franchise. They could start by throwing out their archaic
numbering system.

http://www.gamekudos.com/news/4132-e3-2011-eidos-propped-up-a-struggling-square-enix

The term actually came into wide use as
Japanese RPG's took on an anime influence, drawing a clear line in style
and storytelling between them and games developed in the West.
This distinction, I am sure, is the cause of the stagnation in
gameplay evolution perceived in the JRPG genre, as its status as a
separate genre entitled it to adhere to a static gameplay model. VII
onward essentially reset the legacy of the series, causing it to be
perceived as the gold standard of JRPG, when beforehand, its evolution
in gameplay and plot were relatively synchronous with the RPG genre in
the west. As the JRPG stagnated, so did Final Fantasy.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.382710-Final-Fantasy-XV-needs-to-take-a-cue-from-Skyrim-and-The-Witcher

Plaintiff wrote...
Capcom makes a ton of games across a wide range of genres that have nothing to do with RPGs, so the fact that they made Dragon's Dogma is neither here nor there, and it is certainly not indicative of any larger trend.

I wasn't speaking about larger trend. I was speaking about their turning focus from JRPG to WRPG.

Plaintiff wrote...
There are also dozen of western examples that show that linear-story games with fixed protagonists are still going strong, regardless of genre.

Sure. There're also dozen of western examples that flop.

Plaintiff wrote...
I love how you compare games to movies and novels, citing the greater expense of a game as foundation for the claim that it should be different every time you play, but totally ignore the fact that people will happily read the same books and watch the same movies multiple times, even though the story never changes. And the same is true of videogames. Do you know why? It's because a quality story in any format is inherently replayable, with or without gimmicks.

O I agree on some books and movies. I rewatch Terminator series, Nightmare on Elm Street series and other movies countless time due to story. That because I expected to be entertained by story. But video games? How many players will even listen to the same dialogues over and over and over again, let alone replay the same linear interactive story? Most likely this kind of  games end up in dustbin after 2 or 3 replays.

[T764]

@ Sacred_Fantasy. On pyhsical sales Final fantasy XIII on two systems exceeds those of DAO on three systems, the problem is that America is "the market" and if a game fails to achive the American target it fails overall.

I believe that one of the reasons that Japanese games are failing is because of Americanisation, increasingly developers are writing characters and stories that they believe will be well recived by "the market" thus alienating me and people who play the games for a different experience.
I don't think or act like a Yank but more and more often i am forced to play games as such because America is the "the market", an example of that is Binary Domain, set in Japan yet you are Dan Marshall, Yank tosser. Mass Effect 2 and 3 also suffered from that, Shepard became every inch the dumb Yank grunt and the setting became very modern America, example "don't **** with Aria".
Dragons Dogma is far closer in style to the Way of the Samurai games than a wrpg and if not for the setting i doubt it would have been marketed or noticed in the west, it was also developed by the team that did Devil May Cry so it's far more likely that it was supposed to compete with Monster Hunter rather than wrpg's.

An important question is: Why should jrpgs change and Bioware shouldn't?
Because you and "the Market" liked the older Bioware games, when you like something it shouldn't change and bollocks to everybody else, that's entirely valid and my opinion of older Japanese games, i want them to offer me an alternative experience.

Bioware are stuck in a simillar position, their games have to appeal to- Old fans, EA, Bioware itself, "the Market" and also attempt to pull in new fans, those things could be completely at odds. Bioware may want to create a linear action game with no choices set in a new and original fantasy setting as far away from Tolkein as you can get, yet they can't because they have to consider what the "true fans" want and what will be marketable. Untill Bioware decides what is most important to them and stick with it, even if it alienates the "true fans", the games will suffer and continue to be ugly hybrids.