47 réponses à ce sujet

[MrIsidor]

I'm playing my third playthrough atm and decided to go the "easy" way in Redcliffe and kill that spoiled brat Connor instead of hiking all the way to the Circle tower for help, as I did in both my previous plays.

So, when I face Connor outside the Arl's bedroom and I start talking to him, he's totally cool with why I'm there and accepts his execution without the slightest hint of whinin, crying or protests - acting more like a man than most grown up men you encounter in the game (or have in your party, for that matter). Respect for that! Almost made me feel sorry for killing him, but then again, I got to punch his annoying mother Isolde in the face because of it and leaving her devastated by grief, so I guess it was worth it after all

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that after finding him so mature and accepting responsibilty for his actions, he's one of the NPCs that impress me the most. Good work!

[Rainen89]

Yeah I remembered thinking that too, he actually accepted that he shouldn't allow the "lady" to keep hurting/killing everyone just for his sake, unlike Isolde who would not shut up about how selfish she wanted to be. Yeah who cares that the entire castle is almost dead, you killed a little boy!

[DarkNova50]

Hmm...and yet you killed him.



I guess your team knows better than to impress you then, eh? Snivelling whiners all, and ye shall be spared!

[Rainen89]

You have to admit that beggars live significantly longer than brave/selfless npcs.

[Sabriana]

He's indeed impressive in his behavior, that's why I go for Isolde in my following playthrough(s). I never, ever do the mage's quest, because, in my personal opinion in how I play my games, it would take entirely too long to clear out the tower, organize what's left of the mages, return to Redcliffe, and do the ritual. It just strikes me as totally illogical.



Meanwhile there's a demon-child on the loose, who's already wiped out most of the castle and half of the village. Plus, the kid's in trouble because of mom. Had she upheld the law, he'd be fine (or not, seeing as to what happened at the Cirlcle). But Jowan most likely wouldn't have been able to poison the Arl.



So, in my opinion, Isolde is only atoning for the havoc she wrought in the first place. The most illogical thing is of course, that Alistair flips his lid like that for a woman who's responsible for him being tossed into the chantry at age 10.

[Rainen89]

Go, go cunning score mitigating any damages done to approval from 16+ to -5. Nerf cunning.

[Sabriana]

Rainen89 wrote...

Go, go cunning score mitigating any damages done to approval from 16+ to -5. Nerf cunning.

???

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. I'm not english, so maybe I'm missing something here because of the language.

[KalosCast]

Sabriana wrote...

He's indeed impressive in his behavior, that's why I go for Isolde in my following playthrough(s). I never, ever do the mage's quest, because, in my personal opinion in how I play my games, it would take entirely too long to clear out the tower, organize what's left of the mages, return to Redcliffe, and do the ritual. It just strikes me as totally illogical.

Meanwhile there's a demon-child on the loose, who's already wiped out most of the castle and half of the village. Plus, the kid's in trouble because of mom. Had she upheld the law, he'd be fine (or not, seeing as to what happened at the Cirlcle). But Jowan most likely wouldn't have been able to poison the Arl.

So, in my opinion, Isolde is only atoning for the havoc she wrought in the first place. The most illogical thing is of course, that Alistair flips his lid like that for a woman who's responsible for him being tossed into the chantry at age 10.

Well, if you do the mage tower first, then it makes sense that getting there from Redcliffe is only about a day, according to Teegan.

[Maria Caliban]

Sabriana wrote...

Rainen89 wrote...

Go, go cunning score mitigating any damages done to approval from 16+ to -5. Nerf cunning.

???

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. I'm not english, so maybe I'm missing something here because of the language.

He's saying that the attribute 'Cunning' can alter approval changes, so that if you didn't want to lose 10 point, you might want to up your cunning in the future.

I'm not sure what he's saying is accurate, however.

[Original182]

Don't you all believe in redemption and 2nd chances? Isolde made a mistake, but so do we all. And if there's a way to save them all, why not take it?

[interesting03]

Sabriana wrote...

So, in my opinion, Isolde is only atoning for the havoc she wrought in the first place. The most illogical thing is of course, that Alistair flips his lid like that for a woman who's responsible for him being tossed into the chantry at age 10.

I wonder if you can prevent his insane outburst by hardening his personality.

[Squiggles1334]

Maybe I as a person believe in redemption and second chances, but I got some characters I'm playing as who most certainly don't.

[DPSSOC]

This may be a glitch but when I sacrifice Isolde and Alistair talks to me about it I just say "I think it turned out quite well don't you." and he seems strangely comfortable with the situation.

I liked Connor too, almost made me want to give Isolde what she wanted and spare him but my Dalish elf needed to eat.

Don't you all believe in redemption and 2nd chances?

Not really, no.

Isolde made a mistake, but so do we all. And if there's a way to save them all, why not take it?

Short Answer: It's harder

Long Answer: The Demon wasn't weakened or hurt up to the point you decide to run off to the Circle so it's fully capable of launching another undead army come sundown. You are essentially relying on Teagan, Isolde, and Jowan to keep the Demon subdued for at least 2 Days. Isolde's useless the Demon has already took over Bann Teagan and even if Jowan can prevent it from happening again he's not going to kill the kid. So it essentially comes down to hoping 1 Mage Apprentice who dabbled in Blood Magic can keep Demon-boy subdued for 2 days. I'm sorry but having spoken to Jowan I don't have that much faith in his abilities.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 17 décembre 2009 - 07:40 .

[Sabriana]

Original182 wrote...

Don't you all believe in redemption and 2nd chances? Isolde made a mistake, but so do we all. And if there's a way to save them all, why not take it?

Oh, I do believe in that, certainly. But she keeps making things worse and worse. And then she doesn't want to accept that she's to blame just as much as Jowan. She knows her son is the one who is in serious trouble, and that the demon inside him is responsible for all the mayhem and death, but she doesn't say a word, instead she practically drags Teagan back to the castle. Had she been honest, at least then, plans could have been made, even a trip to the mages (if the quest was already done).

Aside from all that, she practically begs to be the one who sacrifices herself. That is her redemption, and it actually made me respect her at least a little. My PC-girl asked her several times if she really wanted to go through with this, and got an affirmation every time. When the Arl is restored, he says something in the lines of "You did what you had to, if you hadn't things could've gone so much worse."

Of course, had the mage's quest already been done, I'd have sent my PC-girl to the tower. No question. She's a softie anyways and has a problem just killing NPC's. Except the son of the Arl of Denerim in his cell. Never played an elf yet, but I saw the City elf origin, and it made me very, ver angry at the man. Those poor elven women needed justice done. Other than that, Zevran gets his chance (naturally he does, he always ends up her chosen one), the blood-mage girl gets another chance, heck, she even pleaded for Jowan's release 'let the chantry hunt and catch him'. However, I don't think that suggestion will ever be taken up by the Arl, no matter how high my girl's cunning/coercion/whatever is.

[Original182]

Think about Arl Eamon. Things are not that objective. You cannot punish Isolde without punishing Connor and Arl Eamon.

If you sacrifice Isolde, Arl Eamon would have lost the woman who gave him a son, and Connor would have lost a mother. You had the power to save them all, and you didn't. And because of that, a huge part of their family is gone forever.

I notice a lot of people say you respect Connor for accepting his fate, but have no qualms with taking away his mother. I am amazed at this contradiction.

Save Isolde for Arl Eamon and Connor, and let the Maker decide what punishment to give her.

Modifié par Original182, 17 décembre 2009 - 08:00 .

[fantasypisces]

Alistair disapproves: -35 Yup, I really got that, of course I was an ass to him (but was just testing the dialogue options) promptly went back and only got -6.



But I do agree about Connor being mature in that he accepts what needed to be done. In my evil playthrough I had destroyed the mages and told Jowan to run, because I never wanted to see him again. Odd then how Alistair still freaked out on me saying there was another choice.

[bobsmyuncle]

Original182 wrote...

Don't you all believe in redemption and 2nd chances? Isolde made a mistake, but so do we all. And if there's a way to save them all, why not take it?

Just RP reasons, really. In-game, if not for the Warden & co. Redcliffe's inhabitants would be zombie chow. It takes at least two days to get to the Circle and back with help. It's entirely possible that the demon could launch another attack once you leave, one that the village can't repel. We know, OOC, that nothing happens to those people, but players who like to roleplay their characters might not allow the chance for the demon to hurt more people.

As an aside, has anyone made Isolde kill Connor? I saw that route by accident yesterday because I was running around upstairs and went into Eamon's room and the demon flipped out, and from there it all just happened. I felt so bad after despite telling myself they were just video game characters and I could reload

[Original182]

bobsmyuncle wrote...
As an aside, has anyone made Isolde kill Connor? I saw that route by accident yesterday because I was running around upstairs and went into Eamon's room and the demon flipped out, and from there it all just happened. I felt so bad after despite telling myself they were just video game characters and I could reload

Same, everytime I tell the story I always remind people that it was an accident. It is easily the most chilling moment in the game, the one moment that makes me say "This game is really dark". And again, I stress it was an accident. I just wanted to see what happens if I enter Arl Eamon's room.

[Sabriana]

Sacrificing Isolde does take wife and mother, but her behavior destroyed many families utterly.



She needs to pay for what she has done, and going out in a blaze of glory is giving her a chance. Self sacrifice for a loved one is a noble deed, and better than letting her go on her merry way, unpunished for the terrible deeds she is ultimately responsible for.



Aside from that, I completely agree with what others are saying about leaving Redcliffe for the Circle Tower. That demon could raze Redcliffe, including the castle easily in two days. That's just the travel time, it takes a bit of time for the mages to organize as well, I imagine.

[Auraad]

MrIsidor wrote...

I'm playing my third playthrough atm and decided to go the "easy" way in Redcliffe and kill that spoiled brat Connor instead of hiking all the way to the Circle tower for help, as I did in both my previous plays.

So, when I face Connor outside the Arl's bedroom and I start talking to him, he's totally cool with why I'm there and accepts his execution without the slightest hint of whinin, crying or protests - acting more like a man than most grown up men you encounter in the game (or have in your party, for that matter). Respect for that! Almost made me feel sorry for killing him, but then again, I got to punch his annoying mother Isolde in the face because of it and leaving her devastated by grief, so I guess it was worth it after all

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that after finding him so mature and accepting responsibilty for his actions, he's one of the NPCs that impress me the most. Good work!

Do you have kids?
Anyway, this boy is too young to be held responsible for his actions ...

What did he do? It ultimately was his mothers fault - she brought that false mage, she only thought about herself,  SHE did not want to loose him to the circle... so, the poor boy could never ever have chosen a different path - he was not mature enough for this path her mother has chosen for him ...

[Kalfear]

Squiggles1334 wrote...

Maybe I as a person believe in redemption and second chances, but I got some characters I'm playing as who most certainly don't.

hehe my next play through will be as a evil mage so I plan on killing Connor.

But you know the character im going to enjoy killing the most?

Zevran! Soon as he looks up at me and calls me handsome (or what ever he says) im closing the gay mouth forever! End of story! 

Back to Connor though, can you still unlock Blood Mage if you kill Connor? First time playing a Mage so maybe ill kill him, then reload earlier save and goto to circle and come back and bump ugly with desire demon for the Blood Mage unlock.

Have to see when I get there I guess 

[Rainen89]

Maria Caliban wrote...


He's saying that the attribute 'Cunning' can alter approval changes, so that if you didn't want to lose 10 point, you might want to up your cunning in the future.

I'm not sure what he's saying is accurate, however.

It is, that's the strange part. Using "Persuade" you can reduce alistairs disapproval to about -16 if you killed connor, (no idea if you killed isolde.) If you have cunning at a certain level, had no idea was 60 when I did this you get the option "Cunning" So this is about you and Eamon, not me at all. This netted me -5 approval instead of the -16 a persuasion check would have done. This can also be done in a lot of other areas throughout the game, where cunning can get you a rather interesting outcome.

[Rainen89]

Auraad wrote...

[
Do you have kids?
Anyway, this boy is too young to be held responsible for his actions ...

What did he do? It ultimately was his mothers fault - she brought that false mage, she only thought about herself,  SHE did not want to loose him to the circle... so, the poor boy could never ever have chosen a different path - he was not mature enough for this path her mother has chosen for him ...

This is a weak argument, the hundreds of people connor killed by being used as an outlet had kids too, did they deserve to have their parents killed and more killed just because you felt bad killing the conduit? We just slaughterered (or at least will eventually.) slaughter hundreds of abominations, possessed willingly or forcibly by demons of the fade and we don't even bat an eyelash, but one child gets possessed (while also killing hundreds of people.) And we have to jump through hoop after hoop to spare him because Isolde and Alistair don't want him to die? Life shouldn't be stratified to that point. Saying it's the right thing to do with Connor, then slaughtering the mage tower is just hypocritical.

Yes it wasn't necessarily him slaughtering them, but he still made a deal with a demon, were this an adult we wouldn't even care. Connor showed more maturity and selflessness than most people throughout this game and that made me want to save him, but saying we should just because he's isolde's son is really, really selfish.

Modifié par Rainen89, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:19 .

[cutieyum]

Original182 wrote...

Think about Arl Eamon. Things are not that objective. You cannot punish Isolde without punishing Connor and Arl Eamon.

If you sacrifice Isolde, Arl Eamon would have lost the woman who gave him a son, and Connor would have lost a mother. You had the power to save them all, and you didn't. And because of that, a huge part of their family is gone forever.

I notice a lot of people say you respect Connor for accepting his fate, but have no qualms with taking away his mother. I am amazed at this contradiction.

Save Isolde for Arl Eamon and Connor, and let the Maker decide what punishment to give her.

The mother is a horrible influence on all the people around her. She is 'evil' by the selfish, devout ways. It is her way, her desires that come first. People in the village died, the WHOLE castle died (including the soldiers), some of the knights she sent out die, she breaks the Chantry rules, she keeps potentially damaging information hidden from her husband (who holds the political power in the family), her indiscretion and secrets put an assasin in the household. She is a disaster as noblewoman, as a mother she is setting very poor examples.

She is a monster of selfishness, yet monsters do love and she loves her little darling, above all the people who lost their parents and children. Redcliff, as a community, is better off without her.

If she wanted to ensure her husband bloodline, she should have popped out more than one kid. Before modern obstetics, women didn't take the chances on just one kid (who could die young, have a genetic deficiency like magic, or physical imparement) to be heir to the title.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Wow, you get to punch Isolde after killing Connor?



For that reason alone, I think I'll kill the kid on my next playthrough.